Darkfall "Released"

[Nebu]

Good lord, that UI reminds me of DAoC so much.  Is that the highest resolution the game supports?

Ghost UI flashback.

[ashrik]

Good lord, that UI reminds me of DAoC so much.  Is that the highest resolution the game supports?

I'm playing on 1280 x 1024, but there is one size higher and 2 lower for 4 total. I'd log out to check for you but I think the authentication server is down. Wrong on that. Only 4 resolutions in the launcher. The highest is 1680 x 1050, and they appear to run the usual gamut down to 800x600

The game itself looks surprisingly decent. Everything has sort of this light touch of cel-shading to it which reminds me of Valkyria Chronicles. Of course, the effect is muted by everything being a shade of dirty brown, dirty orange, or dirty purple

[palmer_eldritch]

oh ho ho ho
Ashrik only pawn in game of life

Looks a lot like Vanguard.

[tmp]

I too find the bunny hopping while running in circles, while beating ones dick very dumb. And its really prevalent in mmo, and i really find it quite stupid considering that

1. Very unrealistic, i love to see two swordsmen running around in circles. strafing and hacking away is never actually done in a sword fight. Maneuvering in a real sword fight involves stepping in and out of the other guys strike range, not just walking behind them and hoping they don't notice you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oICIrDrzmf8

someone educate these nubs i guess, they're doing it wrong.

[sidereal]

I too find the bunny hopping while running in circles, while beating ones dick very dumb. And its really prevalent in mmo, and i really find it quite stupid considering that

1. Very unrealistic, i love to see two swordsmen running around in circles. strafing and hacking away is never actually done in a sword fight. Maneuvering in a real sword fight involves stepping in and out of the other guys strike range, not just walking behind them and hoping they don't notice you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oICIrDrzmf8

someone educate these nubs i guess, they're doing it wrong.

Did you just imply that two SCA nerds are 'real' swordfighters?  You did, didn't you?

[ashrik]

haha as if any of those LARPtastic blows would have hit either of those fine renaissance gentlemen had they not been parried.

Either way, I think that until we've got a body-motion control scheme (all I can think of is Fight Night) and a control method that doesn't make it play like shit, gamers will be more than happy to continue circle strafing around each other.

[Merusk]

I thought LARP fighting is based on stage fighting... which is as different from military-use fighting as Kendo and Fencing are. 

[ashrik]

I don't think LARP'ing is based on any fighting style. I was goofing on a bunch of grown men playing with swords.

[gryeyes]

LARP  battles are based on the practical application of violence with the intent to slay. They are trained killers who have evolved beyond such petty concepts like fear and mercy. If you ever cross one may god have mercy on your soul.

[tmp]

Did you just imply that two SCA nerds are 'real' swordfighters?  You did, didn't you?

Well, there's unfortunately shortage of authentic movies taken during medieval sword fights on youtube, for some odd reason. So that was of the first things that showed up as "sword fighting". Obviously these guys aren't trying to kill one another, but it was more to illustrate that "stepping in and out of the other guys strike range" as well as blocking seems to involve also moving to sides, which causes both fighters to change their positions around.

Now, if you can instead provide some recording of "real" swordfighters who never ever do this sort of thing, i'd be very interested to see it. I couldn't really find anything of that sort. From more (possibly) authentic stuff there's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d03eDBJcGz0 but it too shows people stepping to sides as part of defensive techniques. Then there's also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tFXZn9qNhg which is obviously just a movie rather than "real" fight again, but it does utilize authentic techniques from what i read, and the attempts to move around the enemy to side-step their guard don't appear jarringly out of place in there. So overall, dunno.

[sidereal]

Well, there's obviously a surfeit of video of people fighting to the death with swords since guns are plentiful and cheap.  I actually wasn't arguing the point so much, since I do believe sidestepping has a place in swordplay, as much as rejecting the idea of SCA swordplay as being any more authentic than fencing or kendo.

One thing to keep in mind is that authentic medieval battlefield swordplay had nothing to do with dueling and was mostly about overwhelming and clubbing the shit out of the guy in front of you as fast as possible before you in turn got overwhelmed.  Or in the Japanese case, cutting a bitch really fast before he cut you.  But instagibbing is not fun enough for MMOs, so they go for a fancy fantasy sword dueling style that never really happened.  So arguments about whether it's realistic or not are about as useful as arguing about the reasonable accuracy of Mech lasers.  The better question is whether it looks stupid or is not fun.  And bunnyhopping looks stupid.  Circle-strafing very quickly looks stupid.

Mount & Blade has a very fun feeling and not stupid looking fighting system (admittedly PvNPC).  You can sidestep and in fact it's usually good idea, especially against vertical strikes.  But it's slow.  You're not circlestrafing, you're sidling over.  I think if you controlled the speed at which people can sidestep, you'd take care of most of the problem.

[DLRiley]

I too find the bunny hopping while running in circles, while beating ones dick very dumb. And its really prevalent in mmo, and i really find it quite stupid considering that

1. Very unrealistic, i love to see two swordsmen running around in circles. strafing and hacking away is never actually done in a sword fight. Maneuvering in a real sword fight involves stepping in and out of the other guys strike range, not just walking behind them and hoping they don't notice you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oICIrDrzmf8

someone educate these nubs i guess, they're doing it wrong.

 

Tmp your mistaking a quick minimal movement IE side step to running around in circles IE mmo combat.  

[Venkman]

So arguments about whether it's realistic or not are about as useful as arguing about the reasonable accuracy of Mech lasers. 

Yea but since we did that already...

[DLRiley]

So arguments about whether it's realistic or not are about as useful as arguing about the reasonable accuracy of Mech lasers. 

Yea but since we did that already...

Wanna necro the mech vs tank thread for kicks?

[Rake]

Mount & Blade has a very fun feeling and not stupid looking fighting system (admittedly PvNPC).  You can sidestep and in fact it's usually good idea, especially against vertical strikes.  But it's slow.  You're not circlestrafing, you're sidling over.  I think if you controlled the speed at which people can sidestep, you'd take care of most of the problem.

I agree.

One of the BIG differences with Mount and Blade combat from most other games is the way you don't click to attack, you first click to draw the weapon/bow/fist etc. Then release the button to actuate the attack.

This is what makes M&B feel more realistic than most games. If you care to just think about it and maybe theorize an attack. You will most likely first either raise your weapon, or pull your arm back before striking, or throwing your punch.
Plus you get right click as your block which in many cases is what means you survive a mistimed attack or bad positioning.

I was really hopeful that Darkfall was gonna stick to the original plan of copying this combat style.

[idiot grin]

I would love to see someone with a claymore running around in tight circles while jumping like a gazelle.  It takes all of your strength to weild a sword and shield properly.

I don't think it takes all a man's strength to wield a sword and shield properly, assuming a proper sword and shield.  Most of the medieval weapons and armor we still have today were originally parade pieces--  big, heavy, awkward and unbalanced.  Our understanding of the historical sizes and weights involved thus tends to come from ornamental, impractical items.  Very, very few people were strong and coordinated enough to effectively use a 2-handed sword or axe in small combat (i.e. outside of a massed formation).  Or so I read.  

I'd love to see armor affect movement speed and even quickness, though.  

[DLRiley]

Lol, anyone who thinks that claymores are big slow and heavy are dumb, they were well balance tools that provided really good reach. The claymore was used as a thrusting weapon, the slashing was for blunt force trauma against armored opponents (some people fought naked with claymores) though it could good be quite good at the severing limbs, just wasn't "lol i do it all the time" since it was a thrusting weapon first. People in armor didn't move that drastically slower than unarmored, otherwise it'll be impractical. Armor tended to be light weight and well balanced despite the bulky appearance. You were slower, you were that slower.

[idiot grin]

One thing to keep in mind is that authentic medieval battlefield swordplay had nothing to do with dueling and was mostly about overwhelming and clubbing the shit out of the guy in front of you as fast as possible before you in turn got overwhelmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZNNW3oLFD0

http://www.thehaca.com/

[idiot grin]

Lol, anyone who thinks that claymores are big slow and heavy are dumb, they were well balance tools that provided really good reach. The claymore was used as a thrusting weapon, the slashing was for blunt force trauma against armored opponents (some people fought naked with claymores) though it could good be quite good at the severing limbs, just wasn't "lol i do it all the time" since it was a thrusting weapon first. People in armor didn't move that drastically slower than unarmored, otherwise it'll be impractical. Armor tended to be light weight and well balanced despite the bulky appearance. You were slower, you were that slower.

You do realize there are two different weapons called claymores?

About the armor, I disagree with you.  It tended to be light?  Is that why one of the main ways to deal with an armored knight was to knock him down and then knife him before he could get up?  That's where the stiletto came from.

[tmp]

Tmp your mistaking a quick minimal movement IE side step to running around in circles IE mmo combat.  

Hmm i was rather looking at it as extrapolation of sorts. I.e. if you do the sidestep, sidestep, sidestep etc, that does add to moving you around the other guy (and forcing them to adjust so they keep facing you) and the game strafing is an approximation of it.

Admittedly though, since i know fck all about the actual swordplay, i was presuming that at least some of these sidesteps involve moving whole weight onto that foot and consequently moving to a side. If it's more of a sidestep and then back thing, then by all means i can accept being wrong

[ashrik]

Samurai versus Armored Knight! Who would win- go go go!

[sidereal]

One thing to keep in mind is that authentic medieval battlefield swordplay had nothing to do with dueling and was mostly about overwhelming and clubbing the shit out of the guy in front of you as fast as possible before you in turn got overwhelmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZNNW3oLFD0

http://www.thehaca.com/

Wait, so an overview of primarily Renaissance dueling and fencing techniques and an organization devoted to resurrecting primarily Renaissance dueling and fencing techniques are evidence that medieval battlefield combat involved a lot of dueling?

I did enjoy this article on ARMA though, from a guy who learned that dueling technique got everyone fucked up in a simulated battlefield situation.  The best part is that the master who schooled them was basically circle-strafing for reals.

[WindupAtheist]

Samurai versus Armored Knight! Who would win- go go go!

Knight wins handily. A slashing weapon like a katana is just about the worst possible weapon with which to attack plate armor.

[tmp]

They have interesting bit on the sword weight on that ARMA page, re: the running with scissors two-handers:

They were far from the clumsy, heavy things they're often portrayed as in popular media and far, far more than a mere "club with edges." As another source on arms affirmed: "the sword was, in fact, surprisingly light·.the average weight of swords from the 10th to the 15th centuries was 1.3 kg, while in the 16th century it was 0.9 kg. Even the heavier bastard swords which were used only by second-grade fighting men did not exceed 1.6 kg, while the horse swords known as 'hand-and-a-half' swords weighed 1.8 kg on average. When due allowances are made, these surprisingly low figures also hold good for the enormous two-hand sword, which was traditionally only wielded by 'true Hercules.' Yet it seldom weighed more than 3 kg."

3 kg (6 lbs) for the biggest stuff and half that or less for smaller sizes, that ain't very much.

[Nebu]

3 kg (6 lbs) for the biggest stuff and half that or less for smaller sizes, that ain't very much.

I challenge you to see how long you can swing a 3 kg weight before you start finding your arms too heavy to lift. 

[Venkman]

I challenge him to do that from the time he is 12 to the time he retires... at around 32. This wasn't a bunch of gamers picking up a sword they got at Historicon to defend their front door from the Dominos guy 

Besides, I wield big ass power brick for my XPS all the time. That's easily a two-hander in weight and not nearly as balanced. Good for blunt force, probably +2 as a thrown against plate at least.

[Montague]

Lol, anyone who thinks that claymores are big slow and heavy are dumb, they were well balance tools that provided really good reach. The claymore was used as a thrusting weapon, the slashing was for blunt force trauma against armored opponents (some people fought naked with claymores) though it could good be quite good at the severing limbs, just wasn't "lol i do it all the time" since it was a thrusting weapon first. People in armor didn't move that drastically slower than unarmored, otherwise it'll be impractical. Armor tended to be light weight and well balanced despite the bulky appearance. You were slower, you were that slower.

You do realize there are two different weapons called claymores?

About the armor, I disagree with you.  It tended to be light?  Is that why one of the main ways to deal with an armored knight was to knock him down and then knife him before he could get up?  That's where the stiletto came from.

The image of the "tin can" knight rolling around on the ground like little Randy in his snowsuit from A Christmas Story is one of the more persistent medieval myths. Plate combat armor weighed less than a US Army soldier's standard issue pack, and the load was spread out along the knight's body.

Stilettos were descended from Baselards - long, thin daggers used by Swiss pikemen against armored knights. Not because the knights were wriggling around on the ground, but because when faced with massed pikes knights tended to dismount. In close quarters combat the pikemen needed a small secondary weapon capable of penetrating plate armor when enemies got in too close for them to use their pikes effectively.

[Hawkbit]

God damn you guys know how to derail.  Someone's going to end up in tears soon if this keeps up. 

[ashrik]

It doesn't save the fucking position of your fucking inventory when you log off. I spent so much FUCKING time setting that fucking thing up to look nice and be functional and the UI got reset too and fucking FUCK   

[lamaros]

Wait, you logged back in again? Why?! 

[DLRiley]

Lol, anyone who thinks that claymores are big slow and heavy are dumb, they were well balance tools that provided really good reach. The claymore was used as a thrusting weapon, the slashing was for blunt force trauma against armored opponents (some people fought naked with claymores) though it could good be quite good at the severing limbs, just wasn't "lol i do it all the time" since it was a thrusting weapon first. People in armor didn't move that drastically slower than unarmored, otherwise it'll be impractical. Armor tended to be light weight and well balanced despite the bulky appearance. You were slower, you were that slower.

You do realize there are two different weapons called claymores?

About the armor, I disagree with you.  It tended to be light?  Is that why one of the main ways to deal with an armored knight was to knock him down and then knife him before he could get up?  That's where the stiletto came from.

How does killing someone before they get up prove their armor is heavy? I use generally use the scottish highlander claymores if i were to use to word.

Sidereal in general if someone takes off running you just don't bother going after them...

[Modern Angel]

God damn you guys know how to derail.  Someone's going to end up in tears soon if this keeps up. 

It's all fun and games until nerds start talking about what badass fencers they are and try to out-SCA each other.

[ashrik]

Wait, you logged back in again? Why?! 

heh you know I've been having a bit of fun

[gryeyes]

Samurai versus Armored Knight! Who would win- go go go!

Samurais primary weapon is going to be a bow and a spear. So in all likelihood the samurai.

[Signe]

I just read this at MMOthingy thing thing thing:

    Originally posted by cosy

    how toget free money if you are alfar :)

    1) be alfar
    2) train polearms
    3) train knock back skill
    4) get the noob polearm and leave all your armour on bank
    5) find a afk miner/crafter
    6) knock back him on acid lake, if you dont make it on first try heal yourself to full hp and do it again
    7) ?
    8) profit

 

Been doing that since beta. better way is to run up to people when they are at a bank and knock them away from it because it closes out thier bank window. I have my polearm at 50 and I have 1 handed sword and daggers at 25. Cool down for knockback on daggers is a lot shorter than pole arm so I knock them away with pole arm,then when they try to run back and bank whatever it is they have i switch to daggers and knock them away again,then when they try to run back again i knock them back with my 1 handed sword and just keep switching between the 3. Sometimes you get lucky and get thier gold stash. One guy I did it to had like 6k on him :-D