Darkfall "Released"

[LC]

Based on posts Ive seen from people I believe they literally have 0 customer support staff and those emails are being redirected to the "Junk Mail" folder

That's true. They don't respond to email or the help form on their site.

[Vinadil]

Based on posts Ive seen from people I believe they literally have 0 customer support staff and those emails are being redirected to the "Junk Mail" folder

That's true. They don't respond to email or the help form on their site.

LC, have you actually been charged for anything?  So far I have seen the opposite... myself and others playing have still not been charged anything more than the "pre-order" fee of like $3.

Also, the game servers have been incredibly stable and up for hours on end... so I don't think they are connected to the forums/shop in any meaningful way.  And, in-game response to issues is rather fast, at least anecdotally... we have guildies who made a ticket in game and got a response within 10 minutes from both a Dev and a GM.

These guys are obviously operating under-staffed and under-resourced.  I wonder if this is external to them in some way, such as they were just unable to obtain the kind of support that they needed.  I guess with enough money up front you can get any kind of support you want, but what if your funds are limited and people just aren't offering to enter into contract with you?  This still speaks to issues within the development team, either in financing or the ability to sell themselves.  But I can almost see a situation where they tell people, "Hey 300,000 people are interested in our game, we need that much support" and they respond, "We will give you support for 10,000 until we see evidence of more".  Does that happen in this business environment, and barring the ability to do it yourself or mass funding, how do you work around it?

[Nebu]

Also, the game servers have been incredibly stable and up for hours on end... so I don't think they are connected to the forums/shop in any meaningful way.  And, in-game response to issues is rather fast, at least anecdotally... we have guildies who made a ticket in game and got a response within 10 minutes from both a Dev and a GM.

When do we get an objective review of things?

[Mrbloodworth]

Also, the game servers have been incredibly stable and up for hours on end... so I don't think they are connected to the forums/shop in any meaningful way.  And, in-game response to issues is rather fast, at least anecdotally... we have guildies who made a ticket in game and got a response within 10 minutes from both a Dev and a GM.

When do we get an objective review of things?

Seriously.

As far as in game to forum connections and up time. Isn't the entire guild system just web pages (Java based at that) served to an in game browser? And isn't all that guild tools hosted ON THE SAME SERVER AS THE FORUMS?

[Vinadil]

Also, the game servers have been incredibly stable and up for hours on end... so I don't think they are connected to the forums/shop in any meaningful way.  And, in-game response to issues is rather fast, at least anecdotally... we have guildies who made a ticket in game and got a response within 10 minutes from both a Dev and a GM.

When do we get an objective review of things?

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

Do you want us to start keeping track of "server up time" per day or something?  I guess my main experience is from 5pm-2am EST, but during those hours the server is up if not constantly then mostly with 10-15 minute resets being the exception (had one in the last week that I remember).  I won't say it is the most stable server I have seen, but it is far from the worst.  I missed the first 2 days (seems like a good thing), but I got in on day 3 and have played quite easily ever since.

I don't think anyone will argue that AV is doing a good job with outside-of-the-game customer service, which will cost them of course.  But, to those lucky few who can actually play their game, it is a fun experience.  There is a world of difference between the Game and the Game server and then the Forum and the Account Management service.  Like most games... I rarely visit the forums anymore now that I can actually play the game, so I miss most of the "I have this problem" posts.  They are serious problems, but they don't negate the fact that there is a fun game underneath all of the problems.  This could make yet another great Case Study for some business class in a few years... on how making a good product does not equal success.

[Lantyssa]

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

The game?  You know, how it plays.  The good.  The bad.

Sure we've got great material about their epic customer service failure, but the only person commenting on actual game play isn't someone we're going to bother listening to.

[Cisphyx]

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

The game?  You know, how it plays.  The good.  The bad.

Sure we've got great material about their epic customer service failure, but the only person commenting on actual game play isn't someone we're going to bother listening to.

It really doesn't seem like any of you want an "Objective review of the game". Anyone with something positive to say about the game is insulted and called a fanboy/idiot. It sounds like you guys are just looking for people to agree with you that "lolol this game sucks!".

[Delmania]

It really doesn't seem like any of you want an "Objective review of the game". Anyone with something positive to say about the game is insulted and called a fanboy/idiot. It sounds like you guys are just looking for people to agree with you that "lolol this game sucks!".

Really?  I don't think anyone has said that.  I think most of the comments on this post have bee with regards to how AV is handling the launch of their game. 

[schild]

There's no such thing as objective reviews of anything.

[Draegan]

I'm always objective.

[LC]

LC, have you actually been charged for anything?  So far I have seen the opposite... myself and others playing have still not been charged anything more than the "pre-order" fee of like $3.

They never even attempted to charge me. The credit card company told me that there was never an attempt made. I borrowed a relative's card, and made a new account today. Now I have a working account.

[Nebu]

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

The game?  You know, how it plays.  The good.  The bad.

Sure we've got great material about their epic customer service failure, but the only person commenting on actual game play isn't someone we're going to bother listening to.

Yes, this exactly.  Tell us about why the game is worth playing.  If you're playing the game for hours without problems, then you must be having fun. 

[schild]

If you're playing the game for hours without problems, then you must be having fun. 

Now, you know as well as I that that is not always necessarily even a little true.

[Nebu]

Now, you know as well as I that that is not always necessarily even a little true.

I have to concede the point. 

[Venkman]

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

The game?  You know, how it plays.  The good.  The bad.

Whenever a review starts with "If you can actually get into the game..." you know it's too early to start a review that matters. And that's what we have right now.

This game only matters to the people who a) were part of the lottery to get in; and, b) have the beta-style patience to get through the bugs and crappy support. So those people are already sold.

The rest are waiting for reports on stable account management (and/or whether AV cuts and runs to an non-extradiction country  ) and aren't likely to be swayed by how fun the game is, if they can actually get into the game.

imho anyway.

[Cisphyx]

So far I've been having a good time playing the game. I haven't encountered any serious bugs, and I've yet to have the client crash on me. I've mostly just been running around doing quests, killing shit and working on magic skills. I haven't done too much crafting yet, just a bit of fishing and cooking, so I'm not sure how that is. As far as casting goes, I'm playing from the US, getting 150ish ping and I don't really have any issues hitting targets with spells after a bit of practice. At first I was having a bit of trouble with the aiming, but after I turned off the mouse smoothing option it became much easier.

The main problems I've had so far are with the UI. Changing weapons in combat is a pain, since you have to go from combat mode to interface mode, find the weapon in your backpack and equip it, then switch back to combat mode, which isn't all that easy when you're under attack(Correction, I'm just a newb). Also a lot of functions are just /commands, and finding them in the huge list of commands can be difficult if you don't know what you're looking for.

Most of my friends haven't been able to get in, which sucks, so I haven't really done much regarding clans/cities/etc, but so far I've been having fun just fucking around and getting my skills up.

[Xurtan]

The main problems I've had so far are with the UI. Changing weapons in combat is a pain, since you have to go from combat mode to interface mode, find the weapon in your backpack and equip it, then switch back to combat mode, which isn't all that easy when you're under attack. Also a lot of functions are just /commands, and finding them in the huge list of commands can be difficult if you don't know what you're looking for.

Uh, you do realize you can put weapons on the hotbar right, and then just hit the number associated with that hotkey to change the equiped item instantly?

Also, if you know a part of a command, you can type it in, and then hit tab, which will scroll through commands similar. (ie, /party, tab, scroll through to create or whatever.) I haven't had any problems with the commands, most of them are short or only used during downtime, so meh. Although it could certainly be easier to find and use. Other than that, I'm rather fond of the UI, strangely.

[Cisphyx]

The main problems I've had so far are with the UI. Changing weapons in combat is a pain, since you have to go from combat mode to interface mode, find the weapon in your backpack and equip it, then switch back to combat mode, which isn't all that easy when you're under attack. Also a lot of functions are just /commands, and finding them in the huge list of commands can be difficult if you don't know what you're looking for.

Uh, you do realize you can put weapons on the hotbar right, and then just hit the number associated with that hotkey to change the equiped item instantly?

Also, if you know a part of a command, you can type it in, and then hit tab, which will scroll through commands similar. (ie, /party, tab, scroll through to create or whatever.) I haven't had any problems with the commands, most of them are short or only used during downtime, so meh. Although it could certainly be easier to find and use. Other than that, I'm rather fond of the UI, strangely.

Actually I didn't know that, thanks.

Yeah, I do like some parts of the UI. Having certain windows fade in/out when you switch between action/interface mode is pretty nice, probably my favorite thing about the UI so far.

Do you know if there is any type of ingame scripting?

[Lantyssa]

Whenever a review starts with "If you can actually get into the game..." you know it's too early to start a review that matters. And that's what we have right now.

I'm not saying I expect much.  I was clarifying what Nebu asked for since things are so disastrous that his question asking how the game is was misinterpreted.

It really doesn't seem like any of you want an "Objective review of the game". Anyone with something positive to say about the game is insulted and called a fanboy/idiot. It sounds like you guys are just looking for people to agree with you that "lolol this game sucks!".

I do, but I'm going to judge whether it's even semi-objective based on the attitude of the person telling it.  The only person to even come close to attempting it lost all respect from me by calling us all a bunch of fags about three posts into his posting history.  Being an actual real life fag, I tend to ignore anyone using that language.  Further I'll mock them endlessly and gladly derail any point they try to make.  (I minored in Bitch.)  Mea culpla.

However, it was Nebu who asked.  He's about as cool-headed as it gets.  If he asks, he genuinely wants to know.

[Draegan]

I thought the human female racial stat already came with the Bitch option. 

[Lantyssa]

It is, however adding points increases its effectiveness.

During a lecture I was helping her with, a pastor friend of mine used the line "I majored in Bitch" and I thought it so cool it stuck with me.

[ashrik]

oh I was so close to getting a copy!

[Vinadil]

Objective review on what?  You all know that the account management sucks and the Forums were intentionally shut down because the community over there froths whenever they cannot play (which is still most of them because of said account management).

The game?  You know, how it plays.  The good.  The bad.

Sure we've got great material about their epic customer service failure, but the only person commenting on actual game play isn't someone we're going to bother listening to.

Yes, this exactly.  Tell us about why the game is worth playing.  If you're playing the game for hours without problems, then you must be having fun. 

Given Schild's point... I AM still playing because I am having fun, and the fun factors are in things like:
1. Player controlled world-building. 
2. Level-free game design that does not keep me from playing with guildmates. 
3. Politics and a world where in-game behavior matters over time beyond just forum-wars. 
4. A new combat system that is interesting, it is not SO different as to be annoying (AOC) and different enough to add to the fun.  This is the most time I have spent in a FPS type combat system... ever, I suck at it but not as much as I did 3 weeks ago.
5. Player-crafted items and the potential for economic factors to affect gameplay.
6. Mounted combat/ship combat/a world that looks beautiful and works (IE I don't fall off the boats/elevators/mounts or get stuck on stuff randomly).

The game is for the most part what I expected it to be, and I find the combat fun and challenging, if only because it is requiring me to learn a new set of skills.  Match that with the fact that I am probably borderline MMO obsessive and I really enjoy the group of people I am playing with... and that is quite enough to warrant the game.  I have been very open about NOT recommending this game to solo players, because even more than other MMOs this game will not be a great experience for solo players unless they are die-hard fans.  That is mainly because combat/crafting/world-building/politics/ships&mounts/etc. are a paaaaaaain in the rear to aquire and accomplish if you are solo. 

[Nebu]

However, it was Nebu who asked.  He's about as cool-headed as it gets.  If he asks, he genuinely wants to know.

I do.  I'm a huge pvp fan, but got bored with DAoC and gave up on WAR.  I'm afraid that this and EvE are my main options if I want to game. 

So... anything that I can learn without shelling out cash would be nice.

The game is for the most part what I expected it to be, and I find the combat fun and challenging, if only because it is requiring me to learn a new set of skills.  Match that with the fact that I am probably borderline MMO obsessive and I really enjoy the group of people I am playing with... and that is quite enough to warrant the game.  I have been very open about NOT recommending this game to solo players, because even more than other MMOs this game will not be a great experience for solo players unless they are die-hard fans.  That is mainly because combat/crafting/world-building/politics/ships&mounts/etc. are a paaaaaaain in the rear to aquire and accomplish if you are solo. 

Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate the input.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

[ashrik]

That's Savage 2? That looks awesome

[Mrbloodworth]

Yep. And it is, in moderation. Steep learning curve.

[tmp]

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

Hmm i'm not sure if it helps to make any point other than "decent animations help to sell the experience". That is, without knowing much about the system in either game, they feel quite identical to me -- try to run in and land some hits on target in front of you, move sideways or use sprint burst to avoid getting hit back. An extra button to block. Use ranged weapon from range (there's gun rather than blue ball/bow)

If there's more to Savage 2 system than that, without knowing what to look for it just doesn't show.

[sidereal]

I'm confused by lack of butt-lightning

[CharlieMopps]

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

That looks terrible. I don't want to play that at all. I was getting dizzy just watching that.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

Hmm i'm not sure if it helps to make any point other than "decent animations help to sell the experience". That is, without knowing much about the system in either game, they feel quite identical to me -- try to run in and land some hits on target in front of you, move sideways or use sprint burst to avoid getting hit back. An extra button to block. Use ranged weapon from range (there's gun rather than blue ball/bow)

If there's more to Savage 2 system than that, without knowing what to look for it just doesn't show.

Overview, and you have the option of downloading it and playing, its on steam, and from the site, its also, Free to play.

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

That looks terrible. I don't want to play that at all. I was getting dizzy just watching that.

I'm sorry, if your not into fast game play, i guess i can understand that. However, the proof is in the playing. The combat system is sick. You can play an engineer, or be the RTS commander. It has something for all.

[tmp]

Overview, and you have the option of downloading it and playing, its on steam, and from the site, its also, Free to play.

Yeah i looked it up after making reply and did some reading. There is one difference between Darkfall and Savage 2 system -- that is succesful block buffs you and debuffs the opponent, and there's limit to how long/how much damage you can block. Everything else (hit, block, stamina) is exactly the same. I'm not sure really if that one difference takes the combat system from 'meh' to 'awesome', it seems to encourage initial turtling i.e. less incentive to actually be the guy who attempts to smack the other... guess i might give it a try and check it in practice later.

[ashrik]

I have to say, while i do not see the "Action" in Darkfall, im glad people are having fun. What i don't understand is the gushing over the system of two directions and a blue ball.

Here is something to look at, and shows a contrast between Darkfall, and what i feel is one of the best action packed FPS real time Melee systems in a multi player game to date, that's about a nut-hair away from being a MMO.

Boath indi developers.

Hmm i'm not sure if it helps to make any point other than "decent animations help to sell the experience". That is, without knowing much about the system in either game, they feel quite identical to me -- try to run in and land some hits on target in front of you, move sideways or use sprint burst to avoid getting hit back. An extra button to block. Use ranged weapon from range (there's gun rather than blue ball/bow)

If there's more to Savage 2 system than that, without knowing what to look for it just doesn't show.

I was able to see a dodge in that video, that alone lets me know there's more depth in its fighting system than DFs. Fast paced combat introduces a harder more momentum-like timing into fighting other players (the "step forward when your sword is in the damage animation" bit is easier at slower speeds). I suppose it's a matter of taste, at the end of the day.  As in I gots it and you don't! lololoool

[tmp]

I was able to see a dodge in that video, that alone lets me know there's more depth in its fighting system than DFs.

But there's lot of that in the DF part of that video too -- the movement there is slower but so is the weapon swings, and quite a lot of these swings don't connect with players who move out of the way. Not to mention the infamous macroed /stuck with no cooldown

[Nebu]

I'm still waiting for a pvp game where players aren't rewarded for dolphin diving, circle strafing, or jump spamming.

I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a LONG time.