Darkfall "Released"

[Draegan]

Did you guys forget how to spot a troll or something?

lol  Good show.

[Delmania]

He's not a troll, check out the website in his sig.

[patience]

I don't think Darkfall is going to be shut down.  It's different enough from other games out there that it can get the people who want to play an online game that isn't a WoW/DIKU clone, and the marketing spin is enough to appeal to the egos of these people.

This in a nutshell is why the community DF has is an asset. So long as they don't rage quit Aventurine has them under lock down.

It's like the Ferrari business, only not as expensive.

[Signe]

He's not a troll, check out the website in his sig.

What does his website have to do with anything?  Unless, of course, you mean that he's usually an Orc or a Barbarian or something.

[Delmania]

The link in sig goes to a site for some guild and the first post is about how much he's enjoying DFO.  Assuming it's his site, I'd wager he's being srs about DFO.

[kildorn]

"It's so awesome you would know if you could only play the game" is typically the response heard during closed beta periods on a game. That is all.

[LC]

The game is actually fun when you can play it. Unfortunately that's only a select few who got lucky in the refreshing mini game, and some guilds that got favors from devs. Customer support doesn't exist.

[Mrbloodworth]

Do i need to post the ass arrows again? 

[HaemishM]

Guys, Bonedancer is enjoying Darkfall the best way you can. By trolling on boards about the game, because it's not like he can actually get IN the game most the time? AMIRITE? 

[BoneDancr]

Nothing I've said is irrational.  My many condolences are your inability to purchase the poorly made, entertainment-free, product only suited for 4y old wolverine puppies.  My guild of the same had similar problems and we were only able to get about 25 in.  Give the amount of guilds in the 50 - 100 membership ranged on the clan roster now we are seriously behind the curve.  Anyways, glad to hear that you soon will be able to make an informed opinion.  Have a nice day.

Apparently, Bondancr, you seem to think the fact that you and the people who play the game find it fun is meaningful.  There were people who found Hellgate London, Wish, and Tabula Rasa fun.  Making a game that some people find is fun is not something that's particularly challenging.  The problem is that Advertine is so focused on doing everythings its own way that it's not doing anything well.  Rampant exploits, a botched launched day, and roulette style account system.  The "it's a new game" excuse will only last so long.  The success of the game will depend on how well Advertine can turn things around, and basedon their past and current performance, not sure there's much to go on here.

You are right that you can find individual fans of just about anything and that this is probably not a good indicator of the products overal appeal.  However, people finding a enterntainment product enjoyable is most certainly meaningful, in fact its THE most relevant fact to that same product's sales.  I agree with you that Advertine has been pissing away powerful business momentum with customer service, billing, and support blunders.  What I don't agree with, and the point of my comments in this thread, is dismissing the produut as bad without having the slightest fucking clue about how it plays.  If you sent me a screenshot of Tetris I damn sure wouldnt buy the game on that fact alone but most adults familiar with computers played it extensively, and its popularity was undisputed. 

Finally, it's important to note that a company's viability has as much to do with their cost model as it does their sales.  Everyone is slamming them for having no support, poor response time, low server count, bad bandwidth, which are also the tell tale signs of a company with low overhead.  They may very well pigeon hole their pootential subscriber base by this approach, but it is far from lilkely they will close doors over it.  It's bad decisions like Mythic made in Warhammer to pre-purchase support and infrastructure before demand stabilized that places a company into jeapordy. 

[squirrel]

Did you guys forget how to spot a troll or something?

lol  Good show.

In my defense I may have been drinking at the time.

[Delmania]

What I don't agree with, and the point of my comments in this thread, is dismissing the produut as bad without having the slightest fucking clue about how it plays.

Yes, but I've found that people who are having fun tend to not notice the signs of a poor game, namely exploits, bugs, poor account creation, etc.  The playability of the game is not the most relevant factor for a game's long term success, but it is one of them. 

Finally, it's important to note that a company's viability has as much to do with their cost model as it does their sales.  Everyone is slamming them for having no support, poor response time, low server count, bad bandwidth, which are also the tell tale signs of a company with low overhead.  They may very well pigeon hole their pootential subscriber base by this approach, but it is far from lilkely they will close doors over it.  It's bad decisions like Mythic made in Warhammer to pre-purchase support and infrastructure before demand stabilized that places a company into jeapordy.

Support and response time are essential to anyone hosting a service.  If you fail to provide those, the fun people are having will be slowly chipped at by their annoyances with the bugs.  As for AV's business model, by all accounts, they have made some poor decisions as well that could cost them.   From all accounts, AV's fatal flaw is the decision to "be different" and not learn from the mistakes of others.  There are reports of exploits and hacks because the company didn't implement any sort of input checking.  They announced a rolling launch - 5,000 or so slots -, then open up more, but they didn't build or buy an account management site that was capable of handling that.   People being charged and not having access?  Your store crashing the forum and game servers? These are not unsolved issues.   

[kildorn]

Finally, it's important to note that a company's viability has as much to do with their cost model as it does their sales.  Everyone is slamming them for having no support, poor response time, low server count, bad bandwidth, which are also the tell tale signs of a company with low overhead.  They may very well pigeon hole their pootential subscriber base by this approach, but it is far from lilkely they will close doors over it.  It's bad decisions like Mythic made in Warhammer to pre-purchase support and infrastructure before demand stabilized that places a company into jeapordy. 

Those are the telltale signs of a company with no business or sustainable growth.

If I start a web hosting company whose webpage 503's all day long, nobody's going to use me. One of the problems in the MMO industry is that if I start the MMO equivalent, some dumbfucks are going to go all indie street cred and give me money just for not being mainstream and conforming to actually functioning as a company or a game.

If they can't run a company, the company should fail. Throwing money at a shitty business model in order to support the IDEA they were trying to get to isn't making people think there's a market for said failed game, they're thinking there's a market to fleece idiots out of money by promising shit and not delivering.

[HaemishM]

If they can't run a company, the company should fail. Throwing money at a shitty business model in order to support the IDEA they were trying to get to isn't making people think there's a market for said failed game, they're thinking there's a market to fleece idiots out of money by promising shit and not delivering.

You just encapsulated the entire history of the MMOG Medium.

[Morat20]

Sir, how can one consider UO a success when at one point, shortly after Trammel, it had negative 55,000 subscribers?  That fact leads me to respectfully disagree with your premise.

No points unless you link the chart too. :)

[Lum]

[ashrik]

That is awesome hahahaha

But maybe he's right- something that borders on historical precedent doesn't really hold a candle to "I like it", even if everything surrounding the game goes to hell.

I'm going to predict that the game stumbles along up until the day an actual professional company does the same thing, just minus the asshattery and the addition of combat that doesn't look like shit.

[Draegan]

You're assuming they can keep the servers running.

[HaemishM]

Running servers are for pussies.

[ashrik]

Well from what I understand, they treat their hamsters very well. So here's to unfounded optimism!

[schild]

2002 looks suspiciously like UBISoft may have been involved.

[LC]

I still have no account, and have the same problem as these schmucks.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=148432

That's just one thread of many on the same subject.

[Mrbloodworth]

I still have no account, and have the same problem as these schmucks.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=148432

That's just one thread of many on the same subject.

So, the took your money and you cant log in? Not sure what the problem is from that thread.

[Lantyssa]

Apparently, Bondancr, you seem to think the fact that you and the people who play the game find it fun is meaningful.  There were people who found Hellgate London, Wish, and Tabula Rasa fun.  Making a game that some people find is fun is not something that's particularly challenging.

Wish was awesome!  Please do not include it in such company.  Even mentioning it in this thread makes me sad.

 

Oh gods, now I've polluted the panda, too... 

[Signe]

Wish was fun until they nerfed goats.

[tkinnun0]

The success of the game will depend on how well Advertine can turn things around, and basedon their past and current performance, not sure there's much to go on here.

You mean chase the WoW dollars like everyone else? Darkfall is supposed to be a hardcore PVP MMO, what makes you think they or their hardcore players want to turn things around?

Support and response time are essential to anyone hosting a service.

OK, that's just carebear thinking. And I only say that half in jest.

[LC]

I can't purchase the game because my account is flagged as a pre-order. It says I should contact support to have my account activated. They keep leading us on by saying that these accounts will be fixed, but it's not happening. You can't find anyone that has ever gotten a response from their support.

[tmp]

OK, that's just carebear thinking. And I only say that half in jest.

Incompetence really can't excuse itself along these lines. That's just wishful thinking. And i'm not kidding at all.

[UnSub]

OK, that's just carebear thinking. And I only say that half in jest.

Incompetence really can't excuse itself along these lines. That's just wishful thinking. And i'm not kidding at all.

If AV can't service 5k - 6k players on the basics - customer support, keeping the servers up - then they aren't going to grow. AV haven't got a business model that they can support which will kill them. The MMO industry will watch it die of self-inflicted wounds, since the MMO industry itself isn't carebear.

DF could be the next EvE, but only if they survive their debts (something EvE didn't have to worry so much about after resurrection).

[DayDream]

On the other hand unsub, if adventurine can't find how to take money from customers effectively, we'll get the delight of watching idiots sing the praises of the plucky little game that couldn't for the next ten years.

Hope they do though, so the target demographic can stay there and everyone else can learn why this is not a good idea.

[schild]

idiots sing the praises of the plucky little game that couldn't for the next ten years.

We're going to get that and the annoyingly opposite (not being able to let dead dogs lie) either way. I don't see how Aventurine has anything to do with it.

[Delmania]

The success of the game will depend on how well Advertine can turn things around, and basedon their past and current performance, not sure there's much to go on here.

You mean chase the WoW dollars like everyone else? Darkfall is supposed to be a hardcore PVP MMO, what makes you think they or their hardcore players want to turn things around?

Why no, I don't mean chase WoW dollars.  That's the problem with games like LotrO and WAR, they want a slice of WoW's pie, when in fact, what they should have done is don what AV has done, built a game that appeals to the people who don't enjoy theme-park MMOs based on the DIKU MUD.  By turn around, I mean "close exploits", "fix bugs", "correct design flaws", let people be able to buy your product and use it.  Success is not the size of your players, it's if you can meet the goals you set when you started building the damn think in the first place.

Support and response time are essential to anyone hosting a service.

OK, that's just carebear thinking. And I only say that half in jest.
[/quote]

That's a part of the problem with the MMO industry, the belief that it's some special unique snowflake that isn't held to the same rigors as other service industries.

[LC]

At least not having an account has given me time to create a map:

http://www.exploiter.org/darkfall.

[Signe]

Wow, well done.  For some reason, though, it's making me crave a doughnut with sprinkles, which I NEVER crave!

[Shatter]

Based on posts Ive seen from people I believe they literally have 0 customer support staff and those emails are being redirected to the "Junk Mail" folder