Darkfall "Released"

[Von Douchemore]

Say what you will, I'm still eagerly waiting to hand them my €49.99.

 :rabble rabble: 

[DraconianOne]

Give it to me if you like - you'll get as much value and entertainment out of it but I can assure you it'll be put to better use in my hands.

[Soln]

this launch?

[Venkman]

They'll probably still end up with ATITD sub levels for all the reasons everyone else has written here. But it's brilliant marketing given what they have to work with.

You could call their marketing a lot of things, but brilliant isn't one of them.

It's all context (the "what they have to work with" part ;) ). They don't really seem to have a marketing expert at all. However, what they do have is what they think is a deep connection to their playerbase. That video was targeted right at them. I don't know how well it targeted them. I'm about 20 years too old for that noise. But the antiestablishment/anti-mass market/anti-everyone-else-is-doing-it message still resonates.

It's not going to tip the scales of success by any stretch. This type of video (and YouTubing it) is only ever really going to substantiate someone's opinion for or against. DF is going to live or die almost entirely by word of mouth after launch.

[Falwell]

3. There is lore, and if you don't like pvp you're a queer.

Yes, yes I am. Proudly waving the rainbow banner of non-consensual pvp is evil for quite some time now. Also, queer as a 3-dollar bill.

Have we already started the Darkfall = Daikatana meme-thingy yet? If not, I claim I started it here 

I tried the Dark and Light angle myself. Seemed to stick for the better part of 5 posts.

[peryn]

They'll probably still end up with ATITD sub levels for all the reasons everyone else has written here. But it's brilliant marketing given what they have to work with.

You could call their marketing a lot of things, but brilliant isn't one of them.

It's all context (the "what they have to work with" part ;) ). They don't really seem to have a marketing expert at all. However, what they do have is what they think is a deep connection to their playerbase. That video was targeted right at them. I don't know how well it targeted them. I'm about 20 years too old for that noise. But the antiestablishment/anti-mass market/anti-everyone-else-is-doing-it message still resonates.

It's not going to tip the scales of success by any stretch. This type of video (and YouTubing it) is only ever really going to substantiate someone's opinion for or against. DF is going to live or die almost entirely by word of mouth after launch.

You make it sound like that YouTube video was put out by Darkfall/Aventurine, which it wasn't.

[Mrbloodworth]

They'll probably still end up with ATITD sub levels for all the reasons everyone else has written here. But it's brilliant marketing given what they have to work with.

You could call their marketing a lot of things, but brilliant isn't one of them.

It's all context (the "what they have to work with" part ;) ). They don't really seem to have a marketing expert at all. However, what they do have is what they think is a deep connection to their playerbase. That video was targeted right at them. I don't know how well it targeted them. I'm about 20 years too old for that noise. But the antiestablishment/anti-mass market/anti-everyone-else-is-doing-it message still resonates.

It's not going to tip the scales of success by any stretch. This type of video (and YouTubing it) is only ever really going to substantiate someone's opinion for or against. DF is going to live or die almost entirely by word of mouth after launch.

You make it sound like that YouTube video was put out by Darkfall/Aventurine, which it wasn't.

May has well been. Have you read their forums, and postings by the developers?

[Baldrake]

They'll probably still end up with ATITD sub levels for all the reasons everyone else has written here. But it's brilliant marketing given what they have to work with.

You could call their marketing a lot of things, but brilliant isn't one of them.

It's all context (the "what they have to work with" part ;) ). They don't really seem to have a marketing expert at all. However, what they do have is what they think is a deep connection to their playerbase. That video was targeted right at them. I don't know how well it targeted them. I'm about 20 years too old for that noise. But the antiestablishment/anti-mass market/anti-everyone-else-is-doing-it message still resonates.

It's not going to tip the scales of success by any stretch. This type of video (and YouTubing it) is only ever really going to substantiate someone's opinion for or against. DF is going to live or die almost entirely by word of mouth after launch.

You make it sound like that YouTube video was put out by Darkfall/Aventurine, which it wasn't.

You're right; I did. Sorry about that.

But I was being completely serious. The main goals of marketing are to get your product known, and to communicate its "unique sales proposition", which is marketing speak for what makes your product different from all the other ones out there. I'd argue that despite having effectively no marketing budget, Darkfall has done very well at both these tasks. We all know about Darkfall, and we all know exactly what kind of playstyle they claim to be supporting. Compared to the other tiny indie MMOs that come and go, they've done a good job of positioning themselves and getting the word out.

This of course doesn't change the fact that the game itself is likely a frozen turd on a popsicle stick. But the marketing has been very effective given the extent of their budget.

[kildorn]

We know it, as in we, the small focused interest group that has had runins with the developers of the poor sort.

We're not the target market. Unless your goal is to be niche, you need to sell to the bulk market. I'm pretty sure if I pop over to whatever the current version of Barrens Chat is and start up a darkfall conversation, there won't be any response. By this metric, Mankrik's Wife has a better marketing team.

I just fail to see how the bitter and jaded gamers hating on your game while nobody beyond that circle has any idea what they're talking about is good marketing. We rag on Dawn, too, but it never even had a marketing dude.

[ashrik]

Well it's not us, and that we're ragging on the game. I think he's saying that if you were to design a marketing effort to reach a segment of people that you could graciously describe as PVP Kool-Aid Sippers, then you couldn't have done it better. With all the sincerity of a Che Guevara t-shirt from Hot Topic, they've been pushing the "We're unique, we're hardcore, we're not like them, it's a revolution!" mindset on a group of people who are all to happy to eat it up.

[Rake]

I think the people who have been keeping an eye on this game. Are the ones who feel a void in the MMO market.
Mainly the People who have good memories from UO and AC1 and 2. Also the ex SWG people who haven't had a decent home since the CU/NGE fiasco.

I doubt that anyone seriously believes they can produce this game in time and with all things working, but if you've ever loved and lost, you have to keep an open mind that will find true love again.

The ones who have never been into a game THAT much that they miss it still, will enjoy throwing rotten eggs at Darkfall. To them it's just another fail on the Horizon. For others it's something of a ray of hope that the watered down shallow fun of chasing gear inside a Hamsters wheel type of game, can have an alternative.

I don't really care if I'm viewed as stupid for even caring whether the game comes out or not, but I do care. Fail, or not I still want to see it made.

[Goreschach]

Well it's not us, and that we're ragging on the game. I think he's saying that if you were to design a marketing effort to reach a segment of people that you could graciously describe as PVP Kool-Aid Sippers, then you couldn't have done it better. With all the sincerity of a Che Guevara t-shirt from Hot Topic, they've been pushing the "We're unique, we're hardcore, we're not like them, it's a revolution!" mindset on a group of people who are all to happy to eat it up.

Except that group of people is so small and pissy that any mmo catering exclusively to them is doomed to failure.

And any marketing effort that logically concludes in the game's failure cannot be considered good.

[ashrik]

Well it's not us, and that we're ragging on the game. I think he's saying that if you were to design a marketing effort to reach a segment of people that you could graciously describe as PVP Kool-Aid Sippers, then you couldn't have done it better. With all the sincerity of a Che Guevara t-shirt from Hot Topic, they've been pushing the "We're unique, we're hardcore, we're not like them, it's a revolution!" mindset on a group of people who are all to happy to eat it up.

Except that group of people is so small and pissy that any mmo catering exclusively to them is doomed to failure.

And any marketing effort that logically concludes in the game's failure cannot be considered good.

Looks like we have a Negative Nancy on our hands

[Signe]

Good memories of AC2?  People have those?

[Pringles]

Good memories of AC2?  People have those?

Did you play it?

Best MMO ever? Not by a long shot, but it was still fun at times and did some things right

[Rake]

Just one memory that stands out was when I found our arch enemies' guild Life Stone out in the wilds one day, while exploring.

Alerted our crew and started taking out the buff bots.

Enemies started hearthing back, and as my own mates started turning up it escalated into a mini war.


I think it's one of those things that you have to experience to enjoy, but there were plenty of fun times had in AC2.
When I try and think of some Epic memories from WoW, I can't come up with anything. Oh there were some gankings and downing of bosses in raids that were mildly amusing, but nothing that I look back on fondly.

[peryn]

May has well been. Have you read their forums, and postings by the developers?

After reading a 12 page post on their forums where a portion of their community tried to explain why placing items in a hole in the ground was impossible without bringing the games servers to a screeching halt, I figured sharing a gameworld with these idiots is not my cup of tea.

Of course, according to them, placing items in a container is somehow different because the hole in the ground can't be "imaginary" and requires physically moving dirt in the game which = bandwidth consumption; this is honestly the rationale they were employing. 

[Triforcer]

Well, if their billing isn't handled by a porn website, they will at least beat one MMO...second to last is probably the best they can hope for. 

[K9]

May has well been. Have you read their forums, and postings by the developers?

After reading a 12 page post on their forums where a portion of their community tried to explain why placing items in a hole in the ground was impossible without bringing the games servers to a screeching halt, I figured sharing a gameworld with these idiots is not my cup of tea.

Of course, according to them, placing items in a container is somehow different because the hole in the ground can't be "imaginary" and requires physically moving dirt in the game which = bandwidth consumption; this is honestly the rationale they were employing. 

These are people who would wait 4 months for an update and then enter a state of rapture when a dev would announce that Darkfall would feature trees, and that they would be mostly green; so what do you expect.

[Zzulo]

The internet told me that they wont make the beta come out in time and that it is delayed.

[Venkman]

Except that group of people is so small and pissy that any mmo catering exclusively to them is doomed to failure.

Unless your overhead can support a few thousand people. They didn't set out to make a WoW killer, nor even a CoX killer. This is a hobby game where any new account activations will be met with a celebration of binge drinking. The pot will run dry, they'll wonder why nobody else is coming, they'll realize every person attracted by their rage message has already arrived, and at that point start wondering how to get more. And that way finally starts actual marketing thinking, so the few people tracking this game can start counting the days until it's on Steam.

But even that is still better than developing a game you thought was actually going to be a serious competitor until your fanbase flocked back to the game you're still misunderstanding the success of. That's the serious money you want to avoid unless you're damned sure.

[kildorn]

I doubt that anyone seriously believes they can produce this game in time and with all things working, but if you've ever loved and lost, you have to keep an open mind that will find true love again.

So basically, if you've been loved and lost, lower your standards?

[K9]

Lets have some more beta pictures. (lolspoilers)

[kildorn]

Oh to nitpick, but apparently fighting is the best way to gain stamina in the game. <3

[Baldrake]

Except that group of people is so small and pissy that any mmo catering exclusively to them is doomed to failure.

Unless your overhead can support a few thousand people. They didn't set out to make a WoW killer, nor even a CoX killer. This is a hobby game where any new account activations will be met with a celebration of binge drinking. The pot will run dry, they'll wonder why nobody else is coming, they'll realize every person attracted by their rage message has already arrived, and at that point start wondering how to get more. And that way finally starts actual marketing thinking, so the few people tracking this game can start counting the days until it's on Steam.

But even that is still better than developing a game you thought was actually going to be a serious competitor until your fanbase flocked back to the game you're still misunderstanding the success of. That's the serious money you want to avoid unless you're damned sure.

I agree with you DQ that they had no intention of making a WoW killer. But I don't buy that hardcore pvp is too small to be a niche market. There must be a few tens of thousands who would participate in such a game. (Assuming of course that it were well done, which this one probably isn't.)

[Signe]

Good memories of AC2?  People have those?

Did you play it?

Best MMO ever? Not by a long shot, but it was still fun at times and did some things right

Of course I played it.  Don't be a prat.  It was horribly, Horribly, HORRIBLY broken.  That's what I remember about it.

[Rake]

I doubt that anyone seriously believes they can produce this game in time and with all things working, but if you've ever loved and lost, you have to keep an open mind that will find true love again.

So basically, if you've been loved and lost, lower your standards?

No. I didn't mention anything about BEING loved, or lowering standards.

I want to have the same kind of fun I experienced in games that are no longer around. Hope is not dead yet in me yet.

[Nonentity]

Oh to nitpick, but apparently fighting is the best way to gain stamina in the game. <3

You build up all that tolerance to extreme heat. That's gotta build up some kind of character!

[UnSub]

Well it's not us, and that we're ragging on the game. I think he's saying that if you were to design a marketing effort to reach a segment of people that you could graciously describe as PVP Kool-Aid Sippers, then you couldn't have done it better. With all the sincerity of a Che Guevara t-shirt from Hot Topic, they've been pushing the "We're unique, we're hardcore, we're not like them, it's a revolution!" mindset on a group of people who are all to happy to eat it up.

Hopefully the marketing team / guy gets paid and leaves town before those players actually experience Darkfall. Because, even if it is the best MMO ever developed, it still wouldn't live up to the projection they've built in their heads. That's when the screaming will begin.

[Mrbloodworth]

Hay, that hand made terrain looks way better than the evil, cheap way out - Hightmaps other, lesser games use.

[K9]

Oh to nitpick, but apparently fighting is the best way to gain stamina in the game. <3

You build up all that tolerance to extreme heat. That's gotta build up some kind of character!

An amount of character measurable to seven decimal places no less.

[kildorn]

I'd totally play that minimap.

Sadly, it appears the "street view" setting is trying to get the environment polycount to go negative.

[rask]

I think this is the first mmo I've seen that actually has the character equipment window labeled paperdoll...

How...odd.

[Baldrake]

Yeah, there's a few things in that UI that come from UO. The slotless backpack is a feature I don't particularly miss.

[schild]

It looks like the backpack has some sort of autoarrange to it though.

That said, I don't even know why this thread is still active. Fuck this game looks terrible and has been in development way too long by too many amateurs to even be a little good. We're approaching a decade here. Full franchises have come and gone since this game was announced.

Fuck, see and now I've bumped it. Goddamnit.