Darkfall "Released"

[Nerf]

I always thought that was a very odd feature of AC1 (from 1999 to this day).  It ran in 1st person or 3rd person.  In 3rd person, you can adjust the floating 'camera' like most games, however, unlike most games you can adjust it insanely, 360 in x-y, 0-180 deg in Z, and unzoom so your avatar was a dot.  Its like you have a 'remote viewing' spell (which some classes did in DAOC IIRC).   It was locked so the adjustment was centered on the avatar, but could be rotated around that point.   The other odd thing, the invisible floating camera was blocked by terrain (both base-ground and objects)!  So if you tried to zoom back under a tree - it stops if it hits a branch! 

Also AC1 still does not have 'mouse turn', you have to use the keyboard to turn, and to move the camera, and turning in place is quite slow, but the mobs have the same turn rate limit, which I like.

If I remember correctly, the turning radius could be adjusted in some options menu or another?  Either way, there was 'fast turning' of a sort... you hit back, a sidestep key, and the opposite direction's turning key (i.e., since I used Z and C as my sidestep keys and X for moving backwards, you'd hold AXC or ZXD), it'd turn you out and away from what you're facing, a very useful defensive technique in PvP.  You could stagger it with runs (i.e. AXC-WZ-AXC-WZ-ZXD-WA-ZXD-WA) for an approach on an enemy that was almost like a running back's juking in football, helped big time for throwing off projectile targeting.

There were a million advanced techniques like that in AC, which was something I liked; things like fast casting, where breaking into a forward run at the right moment in your casting sequence could let you cast a spell early, or slow-casting, where by turning and running into your spell during the middle of casting, you could lag your cast for basically as long as you continued to run in a curved arc (using the fast turning technique above so you're not just running in a big circle), useful for throwing off the enemy's timing.  (And remember, for anyone who never played AC1 -- your projectile attacks are almost like rockets in Quake, they're dodge-able and dodging them is a huge part of combat)  But of course, despite the fact that you can slide and even run around like this while you cast, your spell will fizzle if you move too far from the area you began casting -- so that was another thing you had to consider.

Add into this the fact that AC1's classes weren't 'rock-paper-scissors' at all (being one the first kids on the block before the rush of EverQuest clones, it just didn't occur to them that that's 'how MMOs are done'), but more akin to the balance between the shotgun, AK, and AWP in Counterstrike -- very situational -- and you had a very deep PvP game.

The key to all this, in AC, was that animations weren't *just* animations.  They actually reflected the actions your character was taking, and if you 'broke' through the animation in some way (by using AC's unprecedented freedom of movement), you broke the action as well, turned it into something different.

Archers had one of the more hilarious advanced techniques... jumping against a slope of the right angle while rotated around toward your target, and at the right power, and jamming the 'quick shot' key...  you could release a barrage of about 10 arrows at once that would have almost no accuracy.  Any normal PvPer wouldn't be terribly damaged, but a noob who didn't know about this would find themselves back at the lifestone w/ no idea how 10 arrows all came at them so fast. :)

Ugh, I hate to get into fights about "features" of a decade old MMO, but almost everything you listed was classed as an exploit and fixed sooner or later.  Hell I remember when they first put in the jump-casting fix and the mad scramble for everyone to hex edit the fix out of their client so we could still do it.  I can still picture the ad -d- and I posted up on CoD, a horribly photoshopped picture of my avatar doing /atoyot or something with "D and Atani's jumphack.exe, only 10 motes!"

The slide-casting thing wasn't an exploit though, it's just everything else you listed was and stemmed from it.

[Iniquity]

Ugh, I hate to get into fights about "features" of a decade old MMO, but almost everything you listed was classed as an exploit and fixed sooner or later.

This is... simply not so?  I specifically listed the things that they officially classified as 'part of the game' and kept.  For instance, they made it so that fast-casting couldn't allow you to cast twice as many spells-per-minute as everyone else, but you can still fast-cast, and it's strategically useful in a number of cases.  They made it so you couldn't slide-cast and shoot your spell from a bajillion miles away, but you can still slide-cast so long as your spell eventually shoots out from somewhere near the origin point of the cast.

I specifically didn't touch on issues like godmode that were exploits that were eventually fixed.

Just about the only thing on that list that *might* have been removed is the 10-arrows-shot-at-once-on-a-hill trick.

[sidereal]

I can't be the only person to point out that it'll be T minus a week until freelook is hacked in for exploiters.  Unless the client only downloads entities in your cone of vision and reacquires when you turn your head, which I'm pretty sure is impossible with stnadard latency, then the information on entities behind you is in your client.  And information in your client is available to people who can find out how to get to it, which isn't rocket science.

[schild]

Iniquity was Hyu (Mediocre, Telemediocrity, etc). He's gone again.

[Triforcer]

Iniquity was Hyu (Mediocre, Telemediocrity, etc). He's gone again.

How are you able to find these things out if he posts from a different IP then in the past?  Your magic ability to do this has always frightened me. 

EDIT:  And its hilarious that he's a Darkfall supporter.  I always knew his star would keep rising.

[schild]

Iniquity was Hyu (Mediocre, Telemediocrity, etc). He's gone again.

How are you able to find these things out if he posts from a different IP then in the past?  Your magic ability to do this has always frightened me. 

I can identify other people, but I'm bad with Hyu. Rasix on the other hand can identify Hyu in a very few number of posts. He just happened to be posting in places - this time - that Rasix didn't read very often.

[Venkman]

Stuff I wrote

The original design for EQ II was to "fix" everything the devs thought were broken in EQ, it was not to make an EQ that was more fun than the original. This is why you couldn't originally run while combat (didn't want people to be able to run to safety), had linked mobs (didn't want to have people "split" or "pull"), had "scout" mobs everywhere so you couldn't stealth through areas (didn't want people to "skip content") and so on. I wasn't a part of the early betas but it seems unlikely to me that those decisions were made based on what the early beta testers wanted.

Hmm, I'm remembering it differently mostly in how SOE was positioning it at the time (when they were going on about how EQ1 and EQ2 could co-exist). The part about fixing mistakes was applied to things like how to build a more modular game that was easier to make system-wide adjustments too.

But I could be remembering it all wrong

[Rake]

Asherons's Call, whether it were Features or Bugs, did have some of the best game play I've ever had in an MMO.

The more modern MMOs in comparison can be played by dangling your balls on the macro keys and doing very well thank you.

I suppose face rolling is a slightly more PC way to describe it, but you get the idea.

[DonnyYoureOutOfYourElemnt]

Really, Schild, I figured you'd have picked up on it sooner.

I mean, c'mon, a long series of posts extolling the virtues of AC1 Darktide?  It's not exactly like I made it a fucking Rubik's Cube.

If anything, I apologize for making it too rote and boring, this cycle around.  Next time I'll try and come up with something more interesting.

It's still adorable, in a world where proxy servers and other Fun Things exist, that you think you can ban people from a message board and actually have it stick. *chu*

[Arthur_Parker]

I didn't think this time was that interesting either.

[DonnyYoureOutOfYourElemnt]

Shit, people even remember that?  I feel like Matt Taibbi in the year 2058, in the twilight of his life, if people ask him about the founding of The Exile, or playing basketball in Mongolia.

(Side note: I still think that nameban was total bullshit, IMHO.  BP-X got to keep his name for god knows how long...)

[Falconeer]

P.S: Are you Telemediocrity's friend by any chance?

Tried to warn you all days ago 

[mutantmagnet]

I suppose face rolling is a slightly more PC way to describe it, but you get the idea.

It's also anatomically possible.

[DonnyYoureOutOfYourElemnt]

P.S: Are you Telemediocrity's friend by any chance?

Tried to warn you all days ago 

FWIW, I gave you silent credit for calling it.

[Arthur_Parker]

Shit, people even remember that? 

I have a bookmark folder called "desperate for attention", I just noticed you were in it twice by accident.

[DonnyYoureOutOfYourElemnt]

Well, you've pegged me well, if nothing else.

[Triforcer]

Really, Schild, I figured you'd have picked up on it sooner.

I mean, c'mon, a long series of posts extolling the virtues of AC1 Darktide?  It's not exactly like I made it a fucking Rubik's Cube.

If anything, I apologize for making it too rote and boring, this cycle around.  Next time I'll try and come up with something more interesting.

It's still adorable, in a world where proxy servers and other Fun Things exist, that you think you can ban people from a message board and actually have it stick. *chu*

Prolonged battle of wits with Hyu?  I think we've just found 2008's first F13 Christmas Miracle. 

[Arthur_Parker]

The first Christmas Miracle was Grim in this thread.

[Draegan]

I missed that whole thing.  Damn Edits.

[WindupAtheist]

I thought Hyu was funny in the past. A self-absorbed dickhead, sure, but that's everyone around here. But this "I R HAS PROXY SERVAR, I IS INVICIBLE LOL!" shit is weak. It's the sort of thing I do after posting Goatse in a bunch of Stratics threads.

[HaemishM]

The original design for EQ II was to "fix" everything the devs thought were broken in EQ, it was not to make an EQ that was more fun than the original. This is why you couldn't originally run while combat (didn't want people to be able to run to safety), had linked mobs (didn't want to have people "split" or "pull"), had "scout" mobs everywhere so you couldn't stealth through areas (didn't want people to "skip content") and so on. I wasn't a part of the early betas but it seems unlikely to me that those decisions were made based on what the early beta testers wanted.

The EQ2 beta was full of the hardcore catass EQ1 fuckheads. The forums were full of asslicking fanbois who only wanted EQ but PRETTIER with fewer bugs. The game itself in beta was a fucking tragedy in motion. The changes they made to it after release turned out a decent game whose biggest faults were its hardcore underpinnings. The crafting system, even after the threat of death was removed, was created by a fucking RSI-inducing sadist.

[Murgos]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

[Mrbloodworth]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

Eve?

[schild]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

Eve?

Eve is still an un-fun buggy mess. What are you trying to get at?

[JoeTF]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

Eve?

EVE is fun, at least for people who play it.

[Draegan]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

Eve?

EVE is fun, at least for people who play it.

People play EVE?  I thought people just watched it.

[Cadaverine]

EQ2 is solid evidence that if you make the software well, few bugs, robust, etc... the fun can be 'patched in later' as long as there is enough will by the live team to make it happen.  A couple of games have shown that releasing as a buggy mess can also be overcome with time and effort.

As far as I know being an un-fun buggy mess at release hasn't been overcome yet.

Eve?

EVE is fun, at least for people who play it.

People play EVE?  I thought people just watched it.

Only for the first hour or so, then they tab out to read up on the alliance drama in the forums, which is generally more entertaining. 

[Draegan]

I'm not going to post them here but there are a few leaked game screenshots floating around.  They mostly suck though.

[mutantmagnet]

Half the pics were repetitive in information but I liked what I saw. They did at least affirm how the spell schools will be laid out.

[LC]

I'm not going to post them here but there are a few leaked game screenshots floating around.  They mostly suck though.

Ya, and I've talked to several testers now. They all complain about the same problems, and agree that the game is a turd. It's only a matter of time before the flood gates open, and the shit spews out.

[Draegan]

I'm waiting for the tears of anguish from the rabid fan base.  OOooooh so good.

[Zzulo]

While I agree that it is fun to see naive fainboys crushed, I am kind of dissapointed that Darkfall is going to become another turd in the crowd. I am running out of MMO's to play here

[Draegan]

While I agree that it is fun to see naive fainboys crushed, I am kind of dissapointed that Darkfall is going to become another turd in the crowd. I am running out of MMO's to play here

I'd pick another genre of games.

[Zzulo]

I already play the other genres. 

Still hoping for something refreshing for this genre though.

[mutantmagnet]

I'm not going to post them here but there are a few leaked game screenshots floating around.  They mostly suck though.

Ya, and I've talked to several testers now. They all complain about the same problems, and agree that the game is a turd. It's only a matter of time before the flood gates open, and the shit spews out.

Hmmm, Is it a turd because of technical problems or game design issues?