A new golden age for RPGs?

[sidereal]

Probably.

There might be some kind of correlation with percentage of youth spent roleplaying.  Like I said, I still play them all, so I'm not as down on them as I'm coming off as, but every time I do I'm reminded that I've really, really seen all of these adventure types and character archetypes and encounters before.

Console RPGs have cartoonishly immature characters, but the plots are freaked out enough that I feel like it's new to me.

[Xilren's Twin]

Personally, I have never been able to get into console rpg's b/c quite frankly the vast majority are too japan-centric for me to enjoy.  It's just something about the visual and thematic flavor of these game that puts me straight off.  Part of me wanted to really like Kingdom Hearts, but I just couldn't shake the feeling I was playing a kiddie game.  Same of any of the final fantasy series; I just don't like 'em.

I cut my rpg teeth back on the original Wizardry I from sir tech back on my Apple IIe and that has colored my impression for like.  If I had started playing rpg's first on a console I would probably feel differently.

Xilren

[ahoythematey]

I speculated whether or not I should list some of those due to not playing them(Xenogears, sigh), or because I'm on the fence as to whether I'd call it a full-blown RPG(Zelda).  However, I cannot believe I forgot Grandia and .hack.

[Riggswolfe]

I have to say this. My biggest issue with your typical console RPG is the combat system. I am so tired of the Square-Enix turn-based combat. Random encounter turn-based combat. Things like Fable, Zelda, and KOTR/Jade Empire appeal to me much more. I do like most console stories even if they are a bit heavy on the angst. (And alot repetitive.)

On PC I love RPGs, especially the old Bioware/Black Isle ones.

Speaking of, does anyone have any good suggestions on old RPGs that can still be played?

RPGs I own or are currently on my system:
Baldur's Gate: The whole damn thing
Morrowind
Fallout 1&2
Septerra Core
Arx Fatalis
Gothic 1&2
Darklands
Planescape: Torment

I never got the Icewind Dales games because I heard they were light on the RPG and more big munchkin combat generators.

[schild]

Septerra Core was a goddamned waste of money.

[jpark]

I have to say this. My biggest issue with your typical console RPG is the combat system. I am so tired of the Square-Enix turn-based combat. Random encounter turn-based combat. Things like Fable, Zelda, and KOTR/Jade Empire appeal to me much more. I do like most console stories even if they are a bit heavy on the angst. (And alot repetitive.)

On PC I love RPGs, especially the old Bioware/Black Isle ones.

Speaking of, does anyone have any good suggestions on old RPGs that can still be played?

RPGs I own or are currently on my system:
Baldur's Gate: The whole damn thing
Morrowind
Fallout 1&2
Septerra Core
Arx Fatalis
Gothic 1&2
Darklands
Planescape: Torment

I never got the Icewind Dales games because I heard they were light on the RPG and more big munchkin combat generators.

Sir, there is a serious RPG omission above:  Vampire the Masquerade.  Outside of Fallout, one of my favorite games :)

[Riggswolfe]

[Sir, there is a serious RPG omission above:  Vampire the Masquerade.  Outside of Fallout, one of my favorite games :)

I have it. It's sort of a borderline RPG. Never fear. The sequel is reserved at EB. :)

[Riggswolfe]

Septerra Core was a goddamned waste of money.

Well let's put it this way. I've never finished it. Never even made it close as near as I can tell.

[WonderBrick]

I have to say this. My biggest issue with your typical console RPG is the combat system. I am so tired of the Square-Enix turn-based combat. Random encounter turn-based combat. Things like Fable, Zelda, and KOTR/Jade Empire appeal to me much more.

Amen

[schild]

Kotor was definately approaching ridiculously boring combat. I'll play through a turnbased if the story intrigues me (i.e. what I'm playing now, Persona: Nocturne). But, the Star Wars Universe? No, and No. Overrated, oversold, no longer original.

[SurfD]

For PC: Anachronox

Combat was entertaining, minigames were fun, and story was just tripped out as all hell.  It is just too bad that they never did get around to making a sequel to it.  I would KILL for a sequel to that game.  Fucking cliffhanger ending.

For PC/Console: Beyond Good and Evil

The ONLY negative thing you could POSSIBLY say about the game, is that it is far too fucking short.

[Rasix]

Septerra Core was a goddamned waste of money.

Agreed. That was one of the worst RPGs I've ever played.  God, I think I got about half way through before I thought to myself, "this game just isn't going to get better".   The combat was so so horrible.

[Riggswolfe]

I have Anachronox and bought Beyond Good and Evil on word of mouth and am glad I did.

I'm still pissed Beyond Good and Evil didn't sell more copies. I want a sequel dammit! Same with Gladius for the XBOX a game I find highly enjoyable in Coop mode with my friends.

Edit:
 
I would also love to see the sequel to Anachronox. Did you ever see the "movie" they made out of it by splicing cutscenes and such together?

Edit2:

I guess it's becoming obvious where most of my gaming dollars go eh?

[Comstar]

This thread got me to install BG again. I've finished it twice before, though BG2 always gets me to with the amount of..dungron hacking in chapter 2.  Mabye I'll finish the series this time.

[stray]

I'm still pissed Beyond Good and Evil didn't sell more copies. I want a sequel dammit! Same with Gladius for the XBOX a game I find highly enjoyable in Coop mode with my friends.

I still haven't checked out Beyond Good and Evil.

As for Gladius, I thought it was really lacking in terms of story or exploration..Things I first look for in an RPG. The combat, on the other hand, was so fun and well designed I couldn't stop myself from playing until I soaked every last bit out of it. I wish there were more like it.

Huh. Maybe "story" isn't too important to me after all. It would have made it better, to be sure, but it wouldn't have made "it". I mean, I'd easily take a Gladius sequel over another Morrowind -- A game with good points in just about everything important to RPG's, except good combat and gameplay.

[WonderBrick]

Morrowind was near perfection for me.  It just had one major sticking point that dragged the whole game down: the NPCs(without daily lifecycle, and as static Quest generators).  

There are some smaller points I would bring up, but nothing that future gameplay tweaks could not fix.  

Plus the melee combat angle appears to be tackled perfectly in Elderscrolls IV(as detailed here under "Combat").

[Glazius]

Septerra Core was a goddamned waste of money.

Agreed. That was one of the worst RPGs I've ever played.  God, I think I got about half way through before I thought to myself, "this game just isn't going to get better".   The combat was so so horrible.

I actually played it all the way to the end.

If it would have been about twice as fast, and if I could control overland movement with a gamepad instead of clicking around, and oh yeah, if the ending would have made ANY SENSE AT ALL, I would have liked it a lot better.

Chrono Trigger + charge time + interactive environments must have sounded like a winner on paper to somebody, somewhere, but the reality of it was not quite so grand.

--GF

[Soukyan]

Kotor was definately approaching ridiculously boring combat. I'll play through a turnbased if the story intrigues me (i.e. what I'm playing now, Persona: Nocturne). But, the Star Wars Universe? No, and No. Overrated, oversold, no longer original.

Oh! We say this now months after I stated here that KotOR was boring, smelly old ass with cliche story and mind-numbing combat. Sure, flame Soukyan now and jump on his bandwagon later when the smoke clears. ;)


Quite honestly, I never enjoyed the Baldur's Gate series of games (blasphemy, I know... I'll burn in hell I'm sure *yawn*) and KotOR did not impress me. I did enjoy Fallout and Fallout 2. If we can categorize them as RPGs, I really liked Anachronox and Beyond Good and Evil. Morrowind was neat for about 10 minutes and then the open-ended boredom began.

[jpark]

I did not last in Morrowind although the game had merit.  Movement was slow and I constantly found myself getting lost when trying to find the next quest location.

[Calantus]

This thread got me to install BG again. I've finished it twice before, though BG2 always gets me to with the amount of..dungron hacking in chapter 2.  Mabye I'll finish the series this time.

o_O

I finished BG1 because I figured I should (first game Imoen had no trap skills so I couldnt navigate the end maze without grabbing another thief and training them up... no thankyou). The BG2 storyline is an arbitrary magnitude better than BG1. Only character I have ever hated in a non-jaja binks way (which I didn't care about at all) was Irenicus, I played through the last few chapters just to kill that goddamn bastard. It was a blast. The expansion was pretty "meh", but it capped off the story in a satisfying way (unlike FFX-2 where I got to the end boss and just cbf'd killing him).


EDIT: Yeah that pissed me off about Morrowind too. I ALWAYS got lost. Always. Had to look way too many locations up on the internet. I swear, would it kill people to mark my map instead of giving lame-ass directions ("An island North-West of Dragon Fel" does not help when there are 50)? Other people do it, and you KNOW where it is, so why not?

[schild]

Oh! We say this now months after I stated here that KotOR was boring, smelly old ass with cliche story and mind-numbing combat. Sure, flame Soukyan now and jump on his bandwagon later when the smoke clears. ;)

While everyone was being FANBOI about the game I just kept my mouth shut. I was not interested by it. Played through a bit of it on XBox and longed for the good days of BW/BI games. Meh. I'm sure someone flamed you though.

Quite honestly, I never enjoyed the Baldur's Gate series of games (blasphemy, I know... I'll burn in hell I'm sure *yawn*)

You will however, burn in hell for that.

[Ironwood]

If you can't stagger in drunk and belligerent, don't stagger in at all

I like you.  That's probably a bad sign.

[WonderBrick]

I read so many good things about KOTOR.  I bought it for XBox when it dropped to $20.  I popped it in XBox to load it up, and started to read the manuel.  I did not like the combat system that was shown me.  Before even letting the opening movie finish, I ejected it.  Ended up giving it to a friend.

It was a newbie lesson learned to not assume the combat system.  What can I say, I was high from Morrowind still.

[Ardent]

Morrowind was near perfection for me.  It just had one major sticking point that dragged the whole game down:

I know I'm odd, but the thing that almost killed Morrowind for me was the ridiculous font they chose for all the in-game dialog boxes. It was fancy, sure, but unreadable and gave me a headache.

As someone who designs online documents for a living, here's a bit of advice for the Oblivion developers: sans serif 4 teh win.

[Roac]

I read so many good things about KOTOR. I bought it for XBox when it dropped to $20. I popped it in XBox to load it up, and started to read the manuel. I did not like the combat system that was shown me.

It's a d20 system, not an action (Quake-ish) system.  It gives you more control on the action than you get from, say, a Final Fantasy game, but retains some of the RPG elements of combat.  Does take some getting used to, but after playing it, I like their implimentation.

[Xilren's Twin]

I read so many good things about KOTOR.  I bought it for XBox when it dropped to $20.  I popped it in XBox to load it up, and started to read the manuel.  I did not like the combat system that was shown me.  Before even letting the opening movie finish, I ejected it.  Ended up giving it to a friend.

It was a newbie lesson learned to not assume the combat system.  What can I say, I was high from Morrowind still.

Wow, that's unprecendented.  You could have at least tried ONE battle to see what you thought.  I've never heard of someone tossing a game b/c of the way the manual made it sound.  I would have wagered most gamers don't even read the things anyway b/c learning by doing is much more appeal than learning by reading.

Congratulations, you're an ultra niche market!

Xilren

[Paelos]

The only problem I had with KOTOR combat was that certain skills were so ridiculously overpowered that you might as well not even bother not spamming them. Like critical strike or flurry. Seriously, it was the same thing everytime. Stun, speed, hack hack hack hack <dead>. Unless it was a droid, then it was completely onesided. The overwhelming amount of usesless crap was also pretty amusing. They could have reduced force powers to heal, slash, stun, speed, and destroy droid. The rest were just for fun in case you got bored.

[Sky]

I didn't like Morrowind's combat (stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, I wonder how much health this guy has left, stab, stab).

I liked KotOR's system, fast and fluid and you could pause it to give out order queues. It's one of the better non-twitch systems I've seen.

[Paelos]

I didn't like Morrowind's combat (stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, I wonder how much health this guy has left, stab, stab).

I liked KotOR's system, fast and fluid and you could pause it to give out order queues. It's one of the better non-twitch systems I've seen.

Sweet lord it's been so long since I played it I completely forgot you didn't have the health bar on enemies. That was horrific. That and cliff racers still haunt my nightmares.

[Roac]

Most fights are like that.  With Stun and... whatever that rogue 'backstab' power is, you can rape targets.  Destroy Droid, when you get it, will either have the same effect or just outright kill them.  OTOH, if you're trying to min/max, the power moves aren't always what you want to do on a char who's targeted for damage, because they rape your def and/or attack (-3 = 15% diff).

Some of the early levels, and most of the bosses, are different.  Have had to pay very close attention to health, spend time with defenses, or use different strategies (grenades/mines) in a few cases.  Do wish strategy was more of an issue though.

[Disco Stu]

 Other than that, the storylines in the Fallouts and the Black Isle spawn are pretty much of the 'kill the foozle, get the shiny, repeat, kill the archmage, yay' variety.

You are so compleatly wrong it's almost painful. But just to make you more wrong go back further than late 90s to the gold box games or anything from the 80s if you really want to see how wrong you are.

[stray]

So in other words he's umm..Wrong?

[sidereal]

it's almost painful

What else do I need to do to get it to painful?

[geldonyetich]

Baldur's Gate 1, 2, and Planescape Torment all had some fairly awesome plot and presentation, I agree, and overall they're pretty good games.

However, one thing that annoyed me was the game flow basically went like this:

1) Walk up to where a big bad fight is about to happen.
2) Quicksave.
3) Begin fight.
4) Failed saving throw!  Party wiped out.  Quickload
5) Repeat steps 3-4 until battle is successful.
6) Progress plotline.

While the plot made it easy to overlook this, there were times when I was stuck before a particularly tough battle and quite annoyed.

Neverwinter Nights is much the same way, but the curve isn't quite as harsh.  Of course, the original storyline scenario that comes bundled with the game sucks.    However, the first expansion kicked so much ass that when I finished it a few times through I still had enough inertia to go back and complete the original storyline.

Bioware has been busy lately.  NWN got another patch, has a community expansion pack that allows for a lot more module content flexibility, and will soon start a "premium modules" service where they sell modules made by the Bioware team online (sort of like how Guild Wars will be doing things).

Now if only NWN wasn't mired in a AD&D ruleset, which I've decided are quite annoying due to the above listed 6 steps, I'd be thrilled about that.

[Riggswolfe]

Sweet lord it's been so long since I played it I completely forgot you didn't have the health bar on enemies. That was horrific. That and cliff racers still haunt my nightmares.

For the record I loved KoTR. Combat was an interesting mix of realtime and turnbased. I never heard of anyone ejecting a game without even playing it but...ok.

As for the cliff racers and such. Yes, they are annoying as hell. However, download the right mod and cliffracers and those annoying little piranha fish no longer attack you. I also downloaded a mod to change the color scheme in Morrowind to make it brighter and a teleport ring so I can bop around the cities alot easier. Totally different game. Oh and another mod that makes the NPCs non-static. Oh, and one that changes the nightsky. Oh and one that replaces the textures with much higher res textures.

*sigh* Actually I've got close to 30 mods in Morrowind currently. I've kinda forgotten what the original game was like to be honest. Gotta love their construction set.