April Computer Build Thread

[Trippy]

My only question: How important is it to get a power supply with an 8-pin instead of 4-pin CPU power lead?  With the Q9300 using a lot less power than the previous generation of chips and the fact that it can be done like this I'm guessing I'm okay.  I'm just thinking about the long term.  Then I could get a quiet power supply and use the old one as a backup.

The 8-pin aux power connector is meant for "workstation" and server motherboards -- i.e. EPS, not ATX motherboards. You can get power supplies that support both the 4-pin and 8-pin configurations (i.e a "4+4" connector) if for some reason you think you might want an EPS motherboard in the future (say you want a dual socket, 8-core rendering box) or you can get adapters (4-pin to 8-pin and vice versa) which sometimes work depending on the PS.

E.g. one of my home machines is using a Tyan server motherboard but it's powered by an ATX power supply using this adapter (no longer carried by Newegg). The docs implied the motherboard would work with the regular 4-pin ATX connector but they were wrong which is why I didn't just get an EPS power supply to being with.

[Lantyssa]

Okie, thanks.  Mine's docs said it would be a really good idea to use one.  Things seem good, and with what you've said, I'm not going to worry about it.

I've got a great little machine now.

[Jimbo]

What do you all think of these motherboards?  I will probably just drop in one 9800GTX from EVGA, so just need a solid motherboard to run it.

EVGA's
ASUS's
Intel's
and after reading up on Lantyssa's rig,
ABIT's

I'm really nervous about building my own, I mean I can follow directions and have a steady hand, but it just doesn't seem the same as beating on my old jeep with hand/power tools, or sewing up someone's cut.  Are any of the heatsink/fan combo's pretty easy for a beginner?

[Engels]

Unless you're going to be overclocking, you don't need to buy a CPU heatsink and fan, since they come with their own.

[Viin]

EVGA's
ASUS's
Intel's
and after reading up on Lantyssa's rig,
ABIT's

Hmm. I like the Abit because it has eSATA ports on the back, but you wouldn't be able to do SLI with it. Other than that, they are all pretty much the same. I haven't used EVGA or Intel mobos, but I like both Asus and Abit. The EVGA is the only one with the Nvidia chipset, so if you are interested in SLI that would probably be the one to go with. Otherwise, any of those would work fine.

As far as putting stuff together, it's realllly easy. You CPU will come with it's own heatsink/fan that will clip into the mobo on top of the processor. If you read the instructions you'll find it's pretty simple - just make sure you read them and get the CPU chip in the right way (though I think it's hard to do it wrong now days).

The biggest problem you will have is making sure your power supply has the right connectors and that you have enough room in your case with the layout of the mobo. (For example, I had to move my hard drives around to fit this monster of a 8800GT because it's so damn long).

[Trippy]

Unless you're going to be overclocking, you don't need to buy a CPU heatsink and fan, since they come with their own.

The stock Intel cooler is quiet but only does an adequate job of keeping your CPU cool. A top notch CPU cooler can lower your CPU temps by 10C - 20C+ compared to the stock cooler.

[rattran]

The EVGA 780i (and the XFX, dunno about others) cool the mosfets and MCP with a big heat spreader, the fan of which blows all that heat directly into the back of the primary video card.
EVGA says it's not a problem, but it was for me with an 8800gt. I switched to an x38 and have been quite happy.

If you really want the 780i, I'll sell you a slightly used one cheap.

[Trippy]

What do you all think of these motherboards?  I will probably just drop in one 9800GTX from EVGA, so just need a solid motherboard to run it.

EVGA's
ASUS's
Intel's
and after reading up on Lantyssa's rig,
ABIT's

The Intel board is using an older chipset, you probably don't want that one.

I'm really nervous about building my own, I mean I can follow directions and have a steady hand, but it just doesn't seem the same as beating on my old jeep with hand/power tools, or sewing up someone's cut.  Are any of the heatsink/fan combo's pretty easy for a beginner?

The Zalman 9500/9700s are very easy to install. They use screws to attach the clip rather than using "latch-on" clips which always seem to require ridiculous amounts of force to attach on. I replaced a Ninja Scythe heat sink in one of my machines with a Zalman (which I also use in my main machine) because it felt like it was warping the motherboard -- that's how much force the clip was exerting on the heatsink bracket after I managed to get it on with much struggle. The Zalman's however are no longer at or near the top in terms of cooling and quietness.

[Logik]

Well, it's been a little over a week now, and I'm happy to report that things seem to be running mostly smoothly.  Earlier today I removed the dominator fans that Corsair shipped with this memory.  The novelty of it was intriguing, but the incessant whine and the accompanying vibrations within the case were just too much.  The rig is much quieter now, and I'm going to go with the assumption that those small fans were largely superfluous.

I'm also beginning to wonder if I got a good seating on the heatsink when I installed it.  SpeedFan is giving me about 105F for each core diode and 82F for the cpu diode.  These are probably livable, and I doubt if I'll bother to remount unless things get really out of hand.

[Trippy]

What are the temps when you run cpuburn on each core? Which heatsink are you using?

[Engels]

Unless you're going to be overclocking, you don't need to buy a CPU heatsink and fan, since they come with their own.

The stock Intel cooler is quiet but only does an adequate job of keeping your CPU cool. A top notch CPU cooler can lower your CPU temps by 10C - 20C+ compared to the stock cooler.

My stock CPU cooler keeps the CPU at 28 C at idle, 36 C at continuous heavy load.  I'm not OCing or anything fancy. Seems adequate to me.

[Trippy]

Do you have a 65W CPU?

[Engels]

Do you have a 65W CPU?

Its a 6750 C2D. Not sure on wattage.

[Mrbloodworth]

just in case anyone cared, the Hanns-g monitor i got, Really good picture, no dead pixels ETC..i recommend.

Did you get the 28"?

Nah, 19 inch. Link in the thread, page one or two i think.

[Lantyssa]

What do you all think of these motherboards?  I will probably just drop in one 9800GTX from EVGA, so just need a solid motherboard to run it.

EVGA's
ASUS's
Intel's
and after reading up on Lantyssa's rig,
ABIT's

The Intel board is using an older chipset, you probably don't want that one.

Also note the Abit, while being the cheapest, is a PCIe x16 version 1.0a and not a 2.0 board.  The SATA connectors are on the side, which makes it a little tight in my mid-size tower.  After flashing the BIOS I'm very happy with it though.  The system has been stable all weekend.

[Trippy]

Do you have a 65W CPU?

Its a 6750 C2D. Not sure on wattage.

That's a 65W model. Run this program and tell us the temps it's reporting:

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

I'm still suspicious that your temps are being underreported.

[Logik]

What are the temps when you run cpuburn on each core? Which heatsink are you using?

A fair question.  I haven't tried cpuburn yet, partially for fear that if the sink isn't making good contact with the cpu, the program will do what its name suggests; but also because I can't seem to figure out which version to use.  Is there one that lets you load cores individually?

[Trippy]

Your CPU should shut itself down if things get too hot. I normally just run two copies and then manually set the affinity in the task manager. This is the version I use:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/

[Lantyssa]

That's a nice little program.

What are good temperatures for these core values?  I'm curious about my Q9300 specifically, but also processors in general.

[caladein]

Here's what I plan on ordering in the next few days (Newegg Wish List):

Case: Antec Solo ($89)
Mobo: Asus P5NT ($249)
CPU: Intel C2D E8400 ($195)
CPU Heatsink/Fan: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 ($37)
RAM: Kingston HyperX 2x2GB DDR2-800 ($100)
PSU: Antec Neo Power 500 ($75)
HDD: WD GreenPower 1TB ($200)
GPU: Asus EN8800GTS ($240)
Sound Card: Creative SB X-Fi XtremeGamer ($91)
DVD Burner: Pioneer DVR-215DBK ($31)
LCD: ViewSonic VG2230wm 22" ($290)
KB: Logitech G11 ($59)
OS: Vista 64bit Ultimate for System Builders ($170)

Subtotal: $1,828

To say the least, it's been a while, although this thread (along with HardOCP and SPCR oddly enough) has been immensely helpful.  Anything look plain out-of-place in the above set-up?

[Engels]

That's a 65W model. Run this program and tell us the temps it's reporting:

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

I'm still suspicious that your temps are being underreported.

That actually was the program I was using, along with Speed Fan. That said, ambient temperature of the room I'm in affects this idle temperature. Right now, after a moderately hot day, with room temp being around 78 degrees, the core temps reported are 31 and 31. This morning when I posted, with the room temp being down in the high 60s, the temp was as reported earlier.

SpeedFan, the other tool I use, has the temp being higher.

[schild]

AOC is running and I'm at 44/43/54/54 across my cores if you're wondering.

[Trippy]

That's a nice little program.

What are good temperatures for these core values?  I'm curious about my Q9300 specifically, but also processors in general.

It varies greatly depending on the CPU, cooling, and ambient internal case temperature. As a very rough rule of thumb with today's Intel dual-core CPUs something around 30°C idle and 45°C load is typical. The quads, though, typically run hotter as you might imagine.

If you are worried about temps what you need to do is find out what the max temp is for your CPU (the point at which it'll shut itself off) and then work backwards from there. E.g. if you are running at 5°C lower than the shutdown point at max load that's cutting it way too close since a rise in internal room temperature or an extra load on your GPU (both of which might raise your internal ambient case temp) could cause your machine to shutdown.

For your CPU you can get the datasheet from here:

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/318726.pdf

If you flip to the thermal section you can check the temp table for your CPU and it shows 71.4°C as the max Tc temperature at max thermal dissipation (page 79). At the extreme end of things your CPU will shutdown at approx 20°C above the max Tc. So something close to 90°C is really bad news. Ideally you should be well below that and your CPU may in fact start throttling itself if it gets above max Tc so really you want to be below 70°C.

Your CPU is one of the lower power quads (95W TDP) so I would say something around 35°C idle and 55°C load is fine. If you are getting above 60°C under load you might want to check your cooling setup.

[Logik]

Your CPU should shut itself down if things get too hot. I normally just run two copies and then manually set the affinity in the task manager. This is the version I use:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/

After a 30min run on both cores, they were running 57C while ambient inside the case was 33.9C.  I think I have to assume that there's a contact issue, but as I'm not OCing, I wonder if it'd be worthwhile it to re-seat that damn Tuniq.

[Trippy]

What does this program tell you?:

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/

Apparently there are issues with temperature reporting with some of the new 45nm CPUs.

It's possible there's a contact issue if the base of the heatsink or the heat spreader isn't flat or the heatsink base is not smooth enough. Or you may have used too much/too little thermal paste. Or everything could just be "working as intended". 57°C is not that hot.

Edit: actually the temp reporting problems apply to the 65nm Intel CPUs as well:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3251&p=4

[Lantyssa]

My numbers are much better with that Real Temp program.  34°C/36°C/32°C/29°C at idle.

[Logik]

36C at idle for me with Real Temp, which is something like 5C lower than SpeedFan temps.  I'll live with it.  Like you said, 57C really isn't all that hot, and the system has flawlessly run everything I've thrown at it.  When it stops doing that, then I'll get concerned.

[Engels]

Ya, that RealTemp program had my CPU temps at 34 idle, whereas Core Temp is reporting them at 25 C idle (its in the 50s this morning). Unfortunately, the burn in program doesn't run on my box, probably a Vista thing.

[Trippy]

You could try a 64-bit version of Prime95:

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=9779

[Logik]

Ya, that RealTemp program had my CPU temps at 34 idle, whereas Core Temp is reporting them at 25 C idle (its in the 50s this morning). Unfortunately, the burn in program doesn't run on my box, probably a Vista thing.

I'm running Vista Ultimate and it worked fine.  Which "flavor" are you on?

[Lantyssa]

Core Temp is exactly 10° higher on all processors for me.

[Engels]

Ya, that RealTemp program had my CPU temps at 34 idle, whereas Core Temp is reporting them at 25 C idle (its in the 50s this morning). Unfortunately, the burn in program doesn't run on my box, probably a Vista thing.

I'm running Vista Ultimate and it worked fine.  Which "flavor" are you on?

I'm on Enterprise, but I think that shouldn't matter. The way it doesn't work for me is that when I launch it, it asks for a time span in hours and minutes, and when I put numbers in those fields and hit 'start', it just doesn't do nutin at all. I tried doing a 'run as administrator' on it, but that didn't change anything either.

[Yegolev]

One of my hard drives died and I had to yank it.  Replacement is on the way.  Anyway, I love my case but it has a few flaws.  Actually its one flaw is that it is only 15.5 inches deep and getting the hard drives out without decabling the mainboard is a massive pain in the cock.  I looked into the Silverstones and the TJ-03 looks like what I want, but $280 is a stiff bill.  My two main criteria for a case are only that it be able to hold six 3.5" hard drives and a 5.25" DVD drive, and that I be able to get to the guts easily.  Less critically, I want one that can hold two PSUs since my OCZ GXS700 isn't being strained at the moment.  I'd also like to not spend $280 on it.  That sideways mount in the TJ-10 (for example) isn't too much worse that what I have already but I'm somewhat suspicious of it.

What I'm probably going to do is just get some rails and mount my 3.5" drives in the 5.25" bays, some of them anyway since I only have four open.  In the future I might just cut a hole in the front of the case so I can get the hard drives out frontally.

I should fucking design computer cases.

[Trippy]

Less critically, I want one that can hold two PSUs since my OCZ GXS700 isn't being strained at the moment.

I don't understand this. Why do you want an extra PSU if your current one isn't maxed out yet?

[Numtini]

I have a Core 2 Duo 6750 with a stock cooler and I'm getting 34/32 at idle on realtemp. Coretemp shows 36/40. I think coretemp is off though, I ran a program and it spiked temp almost instantly to the high 40s where realtemp showed the cpu kicking up the speed and a slow more normal increase in temp. I was in the case a few weeks ago and honestly, it needs to have the fans and such blown out, so it probably could be lower if I bothered. I can't remember the last time I used anything but a stock ran.