Baby's First Armageddon

[Kitsune]

Being an Amarr drone fan is a complicated prospect - few of their ships are very droney.  So once I got my skills up in cruisers and medium energy turrets and turned my sights on battleships, the Armageddon was a foregone conclusion, being the only Amarr battleship with a decent drone capacity.

Now I have an Armageddon.  I'm working up my Battleship, Large Energy Turret, and Heavy Drone skills, and figure that in another couple of days I'll have 'em up to a decent fighting level.

However, I have no clue whatsoever about battleship combat.  I know from flying my Geddon back to my home system that the thing turns like a dead whale, even with Evasive Maneuvering and Starship Command at level 4.  And I know that sticking five heavy drones in there is a given.  Everything else is up in the air.

So, can anyone used to fighting battleships clue me in about what I should be aiming for as far as range on my guns, tankability, and any common pitfalls to try to avoid?  My fitting skills are maxed, and I have weapon upgrades 5 and advanced weapon upgrades 3, so I can stick just about anything into the ship without a hassle; EFT shows that I can load her up with Mega Pulse Laser IIs and still have enough grid for other miscellaneous gear like a large armor repper and a drone range booster.

This is with an eye towards PvE more than PvP, but if anyone has any grand wisdom to share about PvP, I'd be happy to listen to that, too.

[IainC]

I use a Domi in PvE so I can offer a bit of insight.

T2 Heavy drones are sex. Ogre IIs for preference as most rats are weak to Thermal.
Guns. If you're drone boating, you want range and power. T2 drones will kill small stuff instantly if you have reasonable skills so you needn't worry about shooting at anything smaller than Battlecruisers. On the missions where you have multiple 1.2 million isk BS spawns and stations to explode, you'll be glad of some big guns. Mine are usable out to about 110 Km (5xGallente Navy 350mm rails) and they make a big difference to mission completion time.
As you've noticed you aren't very manoeuvrable. Mostly you'll either be stationary and sniping at stuff that's at the limit of your drone range (which should be at least 70km) or aligned and kiting. It's rare that you'll be getting in close to mix it up or setting orbit distances. Fly so you don't need to change direction very often and the fact that you can't ceases being a problem.

FWIW here's my Domi fitting. Swap Rails for lasers and it should be an ok 'Geddon setup too - you can have more drone link augmenters and you'll probably want to swap the active midslot sensor booster for a passive lowslot one.

5x Gallente 350mm rails
Drone Link Augmenter

Gallente Navy AB
Medium Cap Booster II
Cap Recharger II
Drone Navigation Computer
Gallente Navy Sensor Booster

Gallente Navy LAR
Gallente Navy Adaptive Nano Membrane
Regenerative Nano Membrane II
DCU II
2x Rat Specific Hardeners (Navy mods).
Gallente Navy

[ajax34i]

My Dominix setup for ratting (I have less advanced support skills):

Lows (armor tank)

Damage Control II
1600mm plate (crystalline carbonide)
Large Armor Repairer (one of the cheaper named ones)
Named armor hardeners (n-type - same resists same fitting reqs as T1, less cap usage)

(instead of going with an EANM I and 2 hardeners I just put 4 hardeners in there, sometimes they shoot off-spec missiles, but 2 hardeners should be sufficient; you could use the remaining lows for Cap Power Relays to improve your recharge rate).

Medium:
Sensor Booster I with faster lock time script
Drone Navigation Computer (to make heavy drones hit medium or small targets more easily)
Cap Recharger x 2

High:
2x Drone Link Augmentor (probably just 1 is good enough, 60 km range with just 1, 80 with 2).
2x salvagers
2x tractor beams

I didn't use weapons in the high slots because the dominix bonuses are to drone DPS so they do enough damage on their own, and I'm lazy and didn't want to switch ships all the time.  You probably want to put long range lasers on your Armageddon, whatever size fits after the tank modules are in.

For drones, I have a set of 5 heavy thermal ones (my NPCs are vulnerable to thermal), 5 heavy Explosive ones cause they are the fastest to intercept, and 5 light Explosive (I forget their names) cause they're also the fastest interceptors, just in case.  I can't use T2 drones yet, so I must make do with T1's.

I usually go in, stop the ship, wait for everything to aggress, then launch drones and tell them to go after each target (focused fire, no auto-attack).  I've set up folders for each group of drones, and just launch them by the folder.

[sanctuary]

Your biggest problem with the Armageddon will be managing the cap. You will curse the 3 mids.

I would use T2 pulses simply because the range of scorch will mean less time running your LAR. Complimentary to that, have at least 2 heat sinks in the lows. The Arma is a great gank ship. Rest of the lows; LAR, DCU, hardners to suit and plate if you can fit. You may need to put a PDU or RCU for fitting. Mids at least 2 cap rechargers.

My personal experience has been the arma can't sustain a long fight, trying to run a LAR and 6 guns is painful. YMMV.

[Vedi]

but if anyone has any grand wisdom to share about PvP, I'd be happy to listen to that, too.

With an Armageddon, nobody would put baby in a corner!

[bhodi]

From what I've read, the Armageddon improves drastically with T2 guns and ammo. Every fitting I've seen is wildly cap unstable, and there's not much you can do about it except make the fight end quick.

Sentry drones are also a good compliment if you're fitting it for a sniper setup, you may want to try them out.

[Morat20]

I looked over Bhodi's ship list and came to the following conclusion: "I should not PvP as a Gallente". :)

[Murgos]

I don't get regenerative plating.  Doe s it regenerate?  Or is it simply a bonus to armor HP?

[Morat20]

I don't get regenerative plating.  Doe s it regenerate?  Or is it simply a bonus to armor HP?

Bonus to HP -- but without all that mass associated with armor plate.

[bhodi]

I looked over Bhodi's ship list and came to the following conclusion: "I should not PvP as a Gallente". :)

Gallente tech 1 ships are very solid compared to other races' tech 1 ships. Some of their tech 2 ships fall slightly behind (Gallente interceptors and HAC's are subpar, but their command ships and Force Recons are excellent,) but they are the most cost effective race to train because of how affordable their ships are and how powerful they are relative to the other races.

You get the Thorax, Vexor, and Celestis, three terrific cruisers.
The Arazu is, along with the Rapier, a contestant for the title of best solo recon.
All the Gallente capital ships are excellent -- Thanatos, Moros, Nyx, Erebus.

[lac]

You will really enjoy your first erebus

[Phildo]

For fleet combat you have the Megathron for sniping and the Oneiros is absolutely critical for repairing the sniper fleet.  And the Keres is a good E-War frig, despite being inferior to the Caldari.  Plus, once you've mastered the skillset for Gallente, you're very close to being able to effectively pilot the sweet Caldari railgun ships like the Eagle and Rokh, or the Amarr recon ships that are essentially Vexors w/long-range neuting and t2 resists.

I second sentry drones for sniping battleships.  Be aligned and just inside your sentries' optimal range to absolutely hammer the rats.  Furthermore, you will absolutely want a DCU for missioning and as failsafe for ratting in place of 1 of those 4 armor hardeners.  There is no stacking penalty for a DCU, it adds resists to shields for extra buffer, the 60% hull resist is a lifesaver, and if you're using active hardeners then you can already use the T2 variant.

[Morat20]

My whole skillset is in drones, practically. I'm doing guns next (I'm spending a day or so getting a broad range of missile skills so I can train them later without having to get the skill books), but I'm really not sure where to go.

I'll have Cruisers V in less than three weeks. I really need to spend the time for Sentry Drones V. My gunnery skills are mediocre, and I'm really not sure what I want to do next or where to go. The Arazu looks fun, I can still fly a mean Vexor, and I suppose I could work towards a command or logistics ship. I'm only doing some missiles skills so I can fit out a stealth bomber if I ever feel the need to.

I guess I need to pick a new goal. :)

[Phildo]

I hear heavy interdictors are awesome.  <hint hint>

[Morat20]

I hear heavy interdictors are awesome.  <hint hint>

Three weeks past Cruisers V, from the skills I think I need. Now paying for it, that's a different situation. I haven't priced one yet. I'm rather flush -- for me--  at the moment, but I'm about to drop 25% of my net wealth on a new Domi to make ratting faster. I also need to replace my Helios.

Still, the corp really could use one for ops. Can you MWD in a bubble?

[Nerf]

I'll foot the bill for the HIC book when you're ready, so no worries there.

[Viin]

Still, the corp really could use one for ops. Can you MWD in a bubble?

No MWD in a bubble.

And remember the corp will pay for insurance, though we prefer to pay for it *after* you pop, but hey if you are short on cash..

[bhodi]

No MWD in a bubble.

And remember the corp will pay for insurance, though we prefer to pay for it *after* you pop, but hey if you are short on cash..

MWD works in everything except deadspace. Half the reason you fit a MWD on all combat ships is so that you can burn out of bubbles, both generated and anchored.

Edit: (If that's what you meant)

[Vedi]

I don't know if that is what Viin ment, but a HIC cannot use an MWD while having the bubble active. But others can MWD inside there.

I've got a brand new fitted Onyx HIC that I've just learned to fly at Kheram, and am obviously itching to having it blown up, so I'll try to make it to some op soonish.

[Morat20]

And remember the corp will pay for insurance, though we prefer to pay for it *after* you pop, but hey if you are short on cash..

Well, it's mostly just the hull, unless the skillbook is north of 50 million itself. Once Cruisers V is done, I just neeed Propulsion Jamming 4 and 5, Graviton Physics from nada to 4, and HI to 3 or 4. Oh, and weapons upgrades 5 -- which I was going to get anyways, and I already have the AWU book stored somewhere....

Cruisers V is going to open a lot of doors -- the Arazu too. Hence the need for a faster ratting ship for Providence than a Myrmidion. (I might refit the Myrmidion for PvP work).

[Kitsune]

Well, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Low:

Large Armor Repper II
Power Diagnostic System II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Two armor hardener IIs

Med:

Cap Recharger II
Drone Navigation Computer
Omnidirectional Tracking Link

High:

Drone Link Augmentor


The trick comes in deciding which lasers to mount in the high slots.  If I stick in pulses, I won't have crap for range, so it's looking like beams are mandatory.  According to EFT, I can fit 7 dual heavy beams, 6 mega beams, or 5 tachyon beams.  (These are all basic T1 lasers for the sake of comparison; I'm sure in reality I could find relatively cheap named T1s with easier fitting, and T2s are going to take a good bit of skill training before I can even consider using 'em.)

[lac]

I'm sure in reality I could find relatively cheap named T1s with easier fitting

Make a post here or ask in game if you want a specific large laser, people who rat sansha's are drowning in those things

[Endie]

For clarity, you can MWD in a bubble.  In fleet ops, the whole point of sticking MWDs on the big stuff is so you can burn out of a bubble before their tacklers get a warpin or their titan DDs the fleet.

[Kitsune]

I'm sure in reality I could find relatively cheap named T1s with easier fitting

Make a post here or ask in game if you want a specific large laser, people who rat sansha's are drowning in those things

What are the going rates on faction lasers?  I've never dealt with faction equipment before, given its lack of presence on the markets, but if it'll let me squeeze in an extra mega or tachyon, it's worth considering.

[Morat20]

I'm sure in reality I could find relatively cheap named T1s with easier fitting

Make a post here or ask in game if you want a specific large laser, people who rat sansha's are drowning in those things

What are the going rates on faction lasers?  I've never dealt with faction equipment before, given its lack of presence on the markets, but if it'll let me squeeze in an extra mega or tachyon, it's worth considering.

Not faction -- named T1 stuff. I've got oodles. I tend to box them up, pay someone else to cart them to empire, and sell them in lots of 20.

Mega Pulse Amodal Laser 1 and stuff like that. Every Sansha BS rat seems to drop at least one large laser, with a good percentage of them named T1.

[Phildo]

They're also very good at dropping large neuts, nos, smartbombs and 1600mm plate.

[Kitsune]

Not faction -- named T1 stuff. I've got oodles. I tend to box them up, pay someone else to cart them to empire, and sell them in lots of 20.

Mega Pulse Amodal Laser 1 and stuff like that. Every Sansha BS rat seems to drop at least one large laser, with a good percentage of them named T1.

Oho, gotcha.  When he mentioned it dropping from Sanshas, I'd assumed he meant Sansha-faction equipment.  Durr.  Only now does it occur to me that their faction gear probably has to be purchased with LP.

[Slayerik]

I looked over Bhodi's ship list and came to the following conclusion: "I should not PvP as a Gallente". :)

Gallente tech 1 ships are very solid compared to other races' tech 1 ships. Some of their tech 2 ships fall slightly behind (Gallente interceptors and HAC's are subpar, but their command ships and Force Recons are excellent,) but they are the most cost effective race to train because of how affordable their ships are and how powerful they are relative to the other races.

You get the Thorax, Vexor, and Celestis, three terrific cruisers.
The Arazu is, along with the Rapier, a contestant for the title of best solo recon.
All the Gallente capital ships are excellent -- Thanatos, Moros, Nyx, Erebus.

Gallente HACs are bad?

[Morat20]

Gallente HACs are bad?

The Ishtar can be a nasty nano-cruiser if you spend a hundred million ISK in rigs and gear. But in the end, it's like a really fast Dominux, at three times the price and with a cruiser's tank.

I admit, though, I'm sort of really liking the Phobos (Heavy dictor). 25% armor resist bonus across the board and a huge bonus to medium hybrid range and power? I've been toying with fittings there for a fun game called "How Long Can I Live". If it had a drone bay, it'd be awesome. :)

Edited to add -- Hee. Resists of 88/80/90/75 (EM,Therm, Kin, Explosive), runs a Medium Armor Rep 2, a Tracking Computer, the Warp Disruption field generator, and 5 250mm Rail II's cap stable. That's....awesome, really.

[Slayerik]

Whats a hundred million isk for pwnage anyways? :) My polyed ish is a nasty bish.

[Kitsune]

After playing in EFT instead of working for a while, it looks like my best bet is six Mega Modal Laser Is or Mega Modulated Energy Beam Is, which leave enough CPU free to ditch the co-processor for a Heat Sink II.  I can't use any of the other Mega lasers without having to drop the heat sink and hurting the DPS.

So if anyone has six of those flavors of guns laying around, just lemme know what you want for 'em.

In the meanwhile, that leaves me with an empty high slot that's looking all forlorn.  If I use Modulated turrets, I'll have 27 CPU and 1,016 grid free along with that slot; can anyone think of anything fabulous to put there?

[caladein]

Salvager?  Drone Link Aug or Cloaks need a bit more CPU than you have to spare.  I think you might be able to fit a Medium Nos in there (or be just short).

[lac]

If you are ratting a salvager would make you a lot of extra isk.

[Kitsune]

More of a missioner than a ratter; I was gonna use a dedicated salvage boat with tons more speed for that.  But it certainly couldn't hurt to be able to salvage in a pinch...

[lac]

It will be pretty useless in a mission with a dedicated salvager on standby.
You'll probably be better off dps wise with a fitting mod instead of the heatsink and another gun/launcher