Dawn of War: Soulstorm

[Driakos]

Anyone pick this up?

Played LAN matches most of the evening.  Haven't tried the Dark Eldar yet, only the Sisters.  So far the Sisters of Battle are a hybrid between the Imperial Guard, and the Space Marines.  They are slow to start, but once going, very strong.  Their early units seem to cap points abysmally slow.  Once you get your base sister squads decked out, they are crazy burly.

Every army seems to have gotten an air unit.  Air units basically just ignore terrain.  Most seem rather flimsy, but have devastating moves if they are able to connect.  Bombs.

The Imperial Guard are still my favorite army.  Nothing fundamentally changed with them.  Just some costs adjusted.  Heavy Weapons Teams are cheaper.  Kasrkin seem to hit harder, but you are still limited to one squad of them.

Anyhow, it's more of the same.  Still a top notch RTS, even if the Necron are bullshit.

[Stormwaltz]

It's out? *checks Steam*

Hm. $10 more than I paid for a bundle of the original game and two previous expansions... which I haven't finished yet. Maybe I should wait a bit.

[Yegolev]

I have been commanded to buy this, so I think it's good.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm curious about the "you fight for a whole solar system" stuff.

Does this just mean multiple planets or have they added on some kind of Battlefleet Gothic game between planets or what?

[Lanei]

I'm curious about the "you fight for a whole solar system" stuff.

Does this just mean multiple planets or have they added on some kind of Battlefleet Gothic game between planets or what?

It means multiple planets in the system, connected by webway gates, like the continents in Risk are connected in certain places.  And a giant warp storm that cut off all of the other travel possibilities such as naval fleets.

It looks at first glance that the strategic level map is about half again as many battlefields as the one in the last game, but with less overall mobility.

[bhodi]

It's pretty much the same as dark crusade, but as Lanei said, there are more 'choke points' since there is only one way off one planet onto another.

[Rishathra]

It's not radically different than the Dark Crusade campaign, but it does seem to have benefitted from more development/polish time.  DC's campaign map was little more than a fancy way of making you play lots of skirmishes against the AI.  You spent little to no time actually worrying about the overall strategic situation.  With SS, "playing the map" is much more fun.  Again, its really not much different, but lots of little tweaks have made it much more entertaining.

Lots of enjoyable quotes from the Sisters of Battle.  "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time" is one of my favorites.  The Canoness sounds exactly like that crazy Catholic school headmistress who would rap your knuckles with a ruler for fidgeting, only replace the ruler with a bolter.   

[bhodi]

Maybe it was just the game I played, but I never had to defend except on the final planet. I think the AI doesn't want to go off planet until the planet he starts on is completely taken. Seeing as how I didn't lose a single battle, I didn't think they even had time. I swept across the solar system like a wave of death.

I played the necrons again, I just love the necrons. Slow but inexorable, and totally fucking cheap with mass resurrection. I'm not sure how anything's supposed to actually BEAT them; they seem so so very good, especially when backed by an awakened monolith. I remember that in the first dawn of war, you could actually field 3 of the things.

I finished as the necrons, so now I should try out the new races. I'm no good with any but the necrons and space marines, though the eldar wasn't terrible. Since I've never played Warhammer 40k, this series of games was my first introduction to the world beyond a friend of mine telling me about some of it (he was part of the tau expansion). It was pretty sweet and I spent about 2 hours of wikipedia learning about the history, and I like the living history thing they've got going on.

It's just a shame they milk people out of so much cash, it's way too expensive a hobby to get into for me. Computer versions are just right.

[Arrrgh]

Do you still have to dig up and retype the keys from every previous box in the series?

[bhodi]

If you want to play multiplayer, probably. I just installed it standalone; I had long ago uninstalled the other verisons.

[Driakos]

Do you still have to dig up and retype the keys from every previous box in the series?

If you want to use the previous armies, you do.  Or, you can just start the older versions, and not play with the new armies.  I just looked up the codes in my registry.  They are all stored in there.  You don't have to dig out the boxes.

[Arrrgh]

Do you still have to dig up and retype the keys from every previous box in the series?

If you want to use the previous armies, you do.  Or, you can just start the older versions, and not play with the new armies.  I just looked up the codes in my registry.  They are all stored in there.  You don't have to dig out the boxes.

Thanks, I'll check there.

[Phildo]

Picked this up a few days ago and it seems to have seriously problems with loading times.  All the other versions have run fine for me, so I'm wondering if it's just because I picked it up through Steam this time.

They also changed one of my favorite things about a game.  To get the 5 defense achievements, I basically turtled in around the Imperial Guard's home base and let them come at me.  In Dark Crusade, I would have had a fully functional base complete with maxed out listening posts.  Now all I get is my base's starting garrison (barracks, armory, 4 power plants, 4 turrets).  I do not like this.

[Lanei]

Picked this up a few days ago and it seems to have seriously problems with loading times.  All the other versions have run fine for me, so I'm wondering if it's just because I picked it up through Steam this time.

They also changed one of my favorite things about a game.  To get the 5 defense achievements, I basically turtled in around the Imperial Guard's home base and let them come at me.  In Dark Crusade, I would have had a fully functional base complete with maxed out listening posts.  Now all I get is my base's starting garrison (barracks, armory, 4 power plants, 4 turrets).  I do not like this.

I picked up the retail copy, and the only loading time difference I've noted from Dark Crusade is the load from the main menu into the campaign menu is a bit longer, but that one was long before (it automatically loads your most recent save at that time.) 

I also was disappointed that if you defend on a map you have already played nothing you built before is there, though I think they did it because of people like me who will spend 45 minutes on every single map in Dark Crusade, fully fortifying every starting point with a ring of turrets and fully upgrading every single strategic point in the game except the last one that the all-but-defeated computer player owns.

I'll admit it made defending maps more about how completely you conquered them, rather than how well you reinforced them from the strategic map, that is probably why they did it.

[Johny Cee]

Picked this up a few days ago and it seems to have seriously problems with loading times.  All the other versions have run fine for me, so I'm wondering if it's just because I picked it up through Steam this time.

They also changed one of my favorite things about a game.  To get the 5 defense achievements, I basically turtled in around the Imperial Guard's home base and let them come at me.  In Dark Crusade, I would have had a fully functional base complete with maxed out listening posts.  Now all I get is my base's starting garrison (barracks, armory, 4 power plants, 4 turrets).  I do not like this.

I've noticed the same thing on loading times.  Seems to take forever to load up,  and I have the retail version.

[Driakos]

I have not noticed a difference on the loading times.

[rk47]

heard a lot of nerdrage going on. Game feels unfinished to some. I'm withholding purchase till further patching.

[Johny Cee]

heard a lot of nerdrage going on. Game feels unfinished to some. I'm withholding purchase till further patching.

Really?  For multi or single play?

I'm over half way through the single campaign with the Sisters,  and I'm enjoying it.  Haven't noticed any real cheese tactics,  or felt the computer cheated too much.  Will probably play through with the Imperial Guard,  and maybe the Space Marines.  I love the Guard, but they seemed underpowered in Dark Crusade against factions that rush you early with heavy infantry (Marines and Orcs).


I haven't cared about RTS multiplayer since around the time of WC I/II, though.  Build queue memorization and optimal scout rush tactics can go fuck themselves.

[rk47]

both actualy. in multiplay they complained the faction strength still remains the same trend:

New faction <---Top Tier
------------------
Old factions <--- Sand in Vagina

air units having not much use except getting stuck on terrain.
animation bugs that reeks of rushed products.

You're right on the multiplayer part tho, I feel the same way. Memorize build, rush for caps. etc...So Twitchy >_<

[HaemishM]

both actualy. in multiplay they complained the faction strength still remains the same trend:

New faction <---Top Tier
------------------
Old factions <--- Sand in Vagina

That's pretty much par for the course with Games Workshop stuff, at least in the miniatures game. Every army that got a new codex spanked the previous codex until you found the trick to beating it. They thrive on mudflation.

[Rishathra]

I also was disappointed that if you defend on a map you have already played nothing you built before is there, though I think they did it because of people like me who will spend 45 minutes on every single map in Dark Crusade, fully fortifying every starting point with a ring of turrets and fully upgrading every single strategic point in the game except the last one that the all-but-defeated computer player owns.

I'll admit it made defending maps more about how completely you conquered them, rather than how well you reinforced them from the strategic map, that is probably why they did it.

I used to do the same thing, and at first I missed it terribly when I started playing the SS campaign, but as time went on I became glad they made the change.  It makes the strategic map matter more.  It gives you a reason to actually reinforce territories.  I also discovered that as long as you plunk a generator, a squad or two, and maybe a tech building or barracks on a territory, defending it doesn't take appreciably longer than it did in DC.

Overall I'd say if you aren't really into multiplayer, get it now.  The big bugs are all mainly there.  Otherwise you should wait for the patch.  There is a huge exploit with the Sisters that makes them completely unplayable online.  Apparently the Dark Eldar have a similar one as well.

[Jimbo]

It has been pretty fun so far, the Sister's of Battle are my new favorite army (wish they would bring back squats! damn it!).  The campaingn is pretty fun, and the new change is pretty nice in that it makes you actually reinforce areas that will come under attack.

[rk47]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1313

I love this article. 

Apparently, Soulstorm is 'high value'
Dowdeswell: It’s not low budget. It’s high value.

[Rishathra]

I liked that whole "I knew Starcraft 2, and you sir, are no Starcraft 2" attitude that guy had.   

[Stormwaltz]

Dowdeswell: It’s not low budget. It’s high value.

That man is a hero of PR.

I remember at one point back at Turbine, the design department shared a room with Dave "Sarneho" Namerow, our head (read: only) community relations guy. He got a phone call from a guy we could hear yelling from across the room. In a very calm, measured tone, Dave tried to answer the guy's questions. The answers didn't agree with him, because he just got louder. Over and over, Dave had to say, "Sir, if you keep swearing at me, I'm going to have to hang up." He did this for 10-15 minutes, unfailingly polite and completely calm, before he finally concluded, "I'm sorry sir, I'm going to have to hang up now. Have a good day."

We all applauded.

Guys with that much poise never get enough appreciation.

[Jain Zar]

Its good that DoW is not Starcraft.  It means its actually FUN.

(Or at least as fun as any RTS can be.)

[rk47]

I'm not sure how to put this into words really. The lack of 'precision' in squad action felt awkward. I have some instance where the hvy bolters just won't STAND their ground and let the mobs come at them from lower ground. Instead they went down the ramp, and proceed to setup their bolters there when the enemy is in range. Am I missing anything here?

Curious about your FUN statement Jain Zar. I realize starcraft higher play leaves no chance of having fun at all for casual players (how fun is it to micro a probe in the first 2 minutes :( ) but overall the "Use map setting" maps really add a lot to online play of Starcraft, I remember enjoying some starship trooper maps where I get to defend against waves and waves of zerg with marines that levels up. Playing with another 7 people adds the fun too. It's not always about Lost Temple pwnage or he who has the fastest rush.

[Johny Cee]

I'm not sure how to put this into words really. The lack of 'precision' in squad action felt awkward. I have some instance where the hvy bolters just won't STAND their ground and let the mobs come at them from lower ground. Instead they went down the ramp, and proceed to setup their bolters there when the enemy is in range. Am I missing anything here?

There's a "Stand Ground" stance that will make your units set up and not move.  Pretty much a necessity for heavy bolter squads and most of the Imperial Guard units,  who depend on massed firepower.

[rk47]

must've gotten it confused with hold stance then, my bad. Pretty awesome skirmishes but campaign is somewhat a let down. But nothing compares to fighting a huge ork army map with a friend online.

[Mortriden]

Just to kick in my two cents. 

Its fun if you like the DOW series, but it's got stability issues; especially in the Campaign mode.  I can reliably produce CTD with the Sisters in Campaign mode.  I find myself saving a lot more often.

Plus, the AI for the the Dark Eldar and the Necrons is pretty much broken in skirmish mode.  They fail to capture SP's until they have been attacked and lost a building; usually that's a touch too late.  The Dark Eldar also seem to be obsessed with their barracks structures.  On more than one occasion I've attacked their base to find no less than ten barracks built.

There are graphical glitches in just about about every race, somewhere, but they don't detract from the actually mechanics of the game.  It just looks funny when your Melta Guns track through a mountain on a target that has already been destroyed.

There have been minor changes to the base races between Soulstorm and Dark Crusade; such as Space Marines can now only upgrade to 4 heavy weapons instead of five. 

The airborne units have difficulty pathing over ridges.

All ground infantry have difficulty with pathing, especially if near a vehicle or building.  Noticeable difference between Soulstorm and Dark Crusade.  When given an "attack move" order squads will sometimes not begin to attack until the entire squad reaches a position; a real pain in the ass when the pathing issues kick in and your squad is strung out on half the map.  Direct attack orders will reset this problem and cause a squad to begin to attack the target.  Overall this forces more micromanagement of your squad. 

I'd BIIF the game, but I've played it too much. 

Edit:  First patch is not due to even start being worked on until the middle of April.  I guess they (Relic) are in bug gathering mode. 

[rk47]

Neocron needs a fix or maybe that's just me. The faction is painfully slow and too boring to play. The first tier squad even if it's free are slow and short range shooters, I'm sorry wtf are they supposed to do again? Oh, fodded till tech up. So I get tons of builders, for free again to cap points and build monoliths, then zzzzzzz never mind I'll just mess around with Imp Guards. they really had it wayyy easy in Campaign since they just leap frog n whack the SoB Stronghold for a nice forward base bonus. After which, I just proceed to infantry zerg the 'cap & hold' objectives while letting the tech tanks come into play in Annihilate maps. Execute is very very cheap for both defense and offense. Love the Assassin and heavy weapon squad for defense.

[Mortriden]

Necron Warriors seem to have their ranged attack distance shortened, but I can't be sure.  In melee they are brutal.  Their attacks cause squad disruption and seemingly 90% of the time I am unable to disengage a squad that is engaged in melee with them.

Doesn't matter.  Pariah's and Flayed Ones are the infantry that matter with them; but I agree they are a boring race to play. 

How do you overcome the lack of morale with the Imperial Guardsmen?  Whenever I face them I just burn them out with flamers or Heavy Bolters then break their morale for an easy victory.  Dreadnoughts or Immolators seem to beat 'Russ tanks every time. 

[Driakos]

Imp. Guard are weak in the beginning.  You need to put Commisars in the squads (or at least one squad in your clump) as soon as possible.  The Execute ability restores their morale, doubles their damage output (Kasrkin squads as well) and makes them immune to morale damage for a short period.  Imp. Guard can also garrison in most of their buildings.  Once you put two squads inside (or a squad and a tech priest) they'll put out some pretty heavy firepower.

Leman Russ lose to most of the other factions bruiser vehicles, but they have extreme long range.  If you have your Sentinels (or anyone) up front dancing, the Leman Russ can pound away from a good distance. 

Hellhounds and Heavy Weapons teams are excellent spam busters.  Baneblade is brutal.  I love Imp. Guard.  Build barracks (bunkers) as far away from your base/LP's as possible, and don't be afraid to cower inside them.  Build remote barracks (bunkers) towards your enemies base at captured LP's.  If it gets to the late game, and you are floating lots of Requisition and Power, Basilisks can end things quick.


I love when my early Necron units die en masse.  I just run the Necron Lord over to the grave site and resurrect everything at once.  Plus it fuels your tomb spiders.  Death is no big deal :)  If you go the flayed-one route, the Necron are almost stupidly overpowered.  They break morale on most units, take a hell of a beating, and drop stuff quick.  Plus you can teleport them out, and then back home.  So their slowness isn't really a factor.  Flayed-ones can lose to dancing units pretty easy, but I usually use them for production disruption/base destruction.  They kill a bunch of buildings and builders before they die, and then you can just run the Necron Lord in and resurrect them all.

Necron are kind of slow to get going.  It's best to build your Lord as your first offensive unit.  Keep him away from other command units, they all do extra damage to him.  Regular squads can't really hurt him.  Once you get Phylactery, turrets and ranged squads don't even dent him.  Just keep him away from command/hero units.  Lightning Field's radius was nerfed, but you can still decimate several spam packs at once with it.  Just let your troops die, they are free and fodder.  The Lord brings them back for the coup de grace.  Once you've upgraded your Necron Warriors twice (summoning core, and greater summoning core 200 req upgrades each time) they are very strong versus most infantry/ranged units.  I'm building generators for most of the game.  The more you have, the slower it is to build them, but as long as you have power, it's really hard to take out the Necron.

[Mortriden]

Ah... I see.  I always ended up jumping a set of Assault Marines back there and Melta bombing them or drop podding a dreadnought. 

I'll give that a shot next time I get stuck with them.  I knew about the Commissar part, but I seem to run into orks first; weak ass melee Guardsmen.  Die for the Emperor slower or something. 

[Driakos]

Oh.  Orks early are tough for Imp. Guard.  Gotta use those bunkers!