MMO, Greyhawk Style

[Slyfeind]

After Gygax's passing yesterday, I've been reading and watching a lot of stuff about him, and by him. I always heard the Greyhawk campaign was some kind of living thing, but never understood how it worked until I saw this very susinct video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4bsHgoxW0M&NR=1

So I was wondering if this could translate into an MMO. What if there were a dozen versions of a game, and they were distributed regionally, and the kind of character you made depended on which version you got? Like, you could not play an elf unless you had the Northern Europe version of the game, and you couldn't play a shaman unless you had the Midwest America version.

I have a feeling this would piss a lot of people off and nobody would play it because you'd have to spend almost $500 to access all the content (given about $40 a game, and a dozen versions of it). And players don't like to be denied content.

Anyway. Random thoughts.

[Xilren's Twin]

I have a feeling this would piss a lot of people off and nobody would play it because you'd have to spend almost $500 to access all the content (given about $40 a game, and a dozen versions of it). And players don't like to be denied content.

Anyway. Random thoughts.

Actually, i dont know that people would be pissed off much if the limited content was a front end choice and they still had access to it.  For example, if you know going in that Server A has Elves but no Shaman and Server B has Shaman and no elves but you could still play on them both, it's no more limiting than choosing alliance vs horde.  I really think server divergence in the mmorpg genre has untapped potential.  I just dont know if it will ever be utilized due to the costs involved.

[damijin]

It's really easy to pick out flaws if you want to call them flaws, but if you were able to secure funding for an idea like that, it would probably have a fervent niche community who loved it. If the barrier to creating an MMO was as low as that of writing a table top campaign, things like this would be much more feasible, and I sincerely hope some day it is.

[DarkSign]

I really think server divergence in the mmorpg genre has untapped potential.  I just dont know if it will ever be utilized due to the costs involved.

I agree with this. For example if you had a post-apoc MMO, one server could have a "realistic" ruleset i.e. no psionics or magic - then another could be a religious apocalypse with angels, demons, and some sort of magic ruleset, another have implants and mutations - but all would be based off the same base world.

[Stormwaltz]

Divergent content can be easy if you have triggered spawns. Every world has the same complete set of content under the hood, but quest outcomes (or GM switch-pulling) only activates some of it. We did this in a very basic way in Asheron's Call 1 - see the Thistledown Shard Vigil Monument.

If you have an instance-based world, you can also turn area access on and off.

Divergent rules - that's hard. I defer to the knowledge of actual engineers.

[Dren]

Just turning features on and off depending on the server you are on sounds more feasible to me.  The basic ruleset is the same across all servers, but each one has a set of toggles that make that server unique.  That doesn't make the gameplay all that much different, but the atmosphere for the player is very different.

Take WoW, for instance.  Let's build a server that is dedicated to The Plague.  Only Humans and Undead are turned on.  Only Paladins, Druids, priests, and Warlocks are turned on.  These same switches affect loot tables so only items useable by those are available. 

Each zone has the atmospheric effect of "Smog ridden cesspool" turned on so you get the feel that the Plague has hit every zone.  Each NPC has the switch for "The Plague" turned on so they react and give quests for that theme.  Creatures are set for "The Plauge" so that only appropriate creatures roam around.  Instances have "The Plague" turned on.  Some instances are made unavailable if they have no way of being appropriate to the theme.

Obviously, the way WoW is today isn't a great example.  However, it seems this kind of thing could be done if designed for it up front.  I do remember a tad bit of this was done with SB.  Certain servers had guilds that worked better if you chose a "Theme," which made it so if you built your guild around certain rules, you got advantages others didn't.  Some servers were open with no rules.   I think we are talking about changes that are much deeper, but it does start the creative mind thinking.

To my thinking, this kind of architecture could also be used for major changes to the world when certain events happen.  Perhaps have the world start normal and then go to The Plague after a certain event happens.  Later, The Plague is cured and some other theme is used as a follow-up and so on and so on.

[Slyfeind]

Actually I was thinking more like, you can't play a shaman unless you buy the Northwest American version of the game. You can group with shamans, hang out with shamans, but...since you live in Sweden (for example), you're stuck playing a priest. Every server has priests and shamans. If you buy your game in NW America, you play a shaman. If you buy it in Sweden, you play a priest. Maybe tie the character race and class by the CD key or something.

Divergent content per server does sound kinda cool though.

[veredus]

I don't think that would piss people off so much as people just wouldn't buy it. Correct me if I am misunderstanding, but sounds like you'd have to buy a new game for every class you wanted to play? Also would possibly have to import a version from somewhere else even?

[Tannhauser]

Liiving Greyhawk is cancelled due to the upcoming 4th edition.

I know thats not your point but thought I'd throw it in there.

[DarkSign]

The essential question is would localizing (to North America or Western Europe) gameplay choices (like a class or type of weaponry) serve a unique and worthwhile function? So far I havent seen a unique and worthwhile rationale discussed? Would it make a class more rare? Would it set a lower ratio of that class to other classes?

Once you do that you still have to determine if this unique and worthwhile function is of substantially more benefit than detriment (frustration).

If someone can do that equation I'd love to see the math, but I dont think it's going to balance.

[Xilren's Twin]

I don't think that would piss people off so much as people just wouldn't buy it. Correct me if I am misunderstanding, but sounds like you'd have to buy a new game for every class you wanted to play? Also would possibly have to import a version from somewhere else even?

Nah, just have to pick a different server to play on.  Pick a US server, get shaman, pick a EU one, get priests but no shammies, etc etc

[Slyfeind]

Daleted! I forgot I already made that point a few posts up. It's late and I need a life. ^^

Yeah the basic idea was that you were stuck playing a Shaman unless you had a friend in Oslo who would mail you the Priest edition. But now we're talking divergent servers.

Still, I might try to make that work in my crazy Metaplace world. Maybe race and class can be tied to zip codes or something.

[Slyfeind]

Liiving Greyhawk is cancelled due to the upcoming 4th edition.

I know thats not your point but thought I'd throw it in there.

And that kinda sucks. I hope it comes back with the new DDI online game table.

[Comstar]

And that kinda sucks. I hope it comes back with the new DDI online game table.

It is, but it's going to be Living Forgotten Realms. Less regions though, from about 30(?) to only 6 separate ones.

[Slyfeind]

It is, but it's going to be Living Forgotten Realms. Less regions though, from about 30(?) to only 6 separate ones.

It shouldn't be too hard to get a player-organized Living Greyhawk revival. Hmmm....

[Arnold]

Divergent content can be easy if you have triggered spawns. Every world has the same complete set of content under the hood, but quest outcomes (or GM switch-pulling) only activates some of it. We did this in a very basic way in Asheron's Call 1 - see the Thistledown Shard Vigil Monument.

If you have an instance-based world, you can also turn area access on and off.

Divergent rules - that's hard. I defer to the knowledge of actual engineers.

Nice to see you posting here.  I loved early AC1 Darktide.  It was really close to UO:SP, and from the stories I heard about, very early UO.  I had many good times and battles on Darktide.

Yeah, there were broken things that should have been addressed earlier, but I realize it was one out of many servers.  The amazing thing about Darktide was that its population actually increased!  When I started, we'd see 400-500 at primetime.  At the peak when I played, I'd see 1,500-2,000 on a weekend night.  Most PvP servers decline in numbers from the starting point.

[schild]

That living greyhawk business is neat other than greyhawk bored me to tears. It would seem to me that doing that with Planescape would make things more varied and interesting anyway.

Mostly though, why does every single D&D campaign I've ever been part of or have ever seen involve some fat dude who does shitty high-pitched voices and fancy himself a comedian? And before you say it, I'm not talking about myself. And I'm not ragging on that one dude for being a nerd it's just an observation of something that is seemingly static. Like he's the control for any scientific experiment for D&D. This is your average D&D player, he can do such voices as high-pitched elf, high-pitched dwarf, high-pitched giant, high-pitched human, and gollum.

[amiable]

That living greyhawk business is neat other than greyhawk bored me to tears. It would seem to me that doing that with Planescape would make things more varied and interesting anyway.

Mostly though, why does every single D&D campaign I've ever been part of or have ever seen involve some fat dude who does shitty high-pitched voices and fancy himself a comedian? And before you say it, I'm not talking about myself. And I'm not ragging on that one dude for being a nerd it's just an observation of something that is seemingly static. Like he's the control for any scientific experiment for D&D. This is your average D&D player, he can do such voices as high-pitched elf, high-pitched dwarf, high-pitched giant, high-pitched human, and gollum.

Hey, that's me! 

[schild]

That living greyhawk business is neat other than greyhawk bored me to tears. It would seem to me that doing that with Planescape would make things more varied and interesting anyway.

Mostly though, why does every single D&D campaign I've ever been part of or have ever seen involve some fat dude who does shitty high-pitched voices and fancy himself a comedian? And before you say it, I'm not talking about myself. And I'm not ragging on that one dude for being a nerd it's just an observation of something that is seemingly static. Like he's the control for any scientific experiment for D&D. This is your average D&D player, he can do such voices as high-pitched elf, high-pitched dwarf, high-pitched giant, high-pitched human, and gollum.

Hey, that's me! 

Your high-pitched voice sucks. Don't let your mom tell you otherwise. I suggest going for Christopher Walken. His voice should come from every mouth.