2.4 changes?

[Threash]

Uh, they're planning on charging 57,000 honor and 130 marks for a set? Excitement over, I thought it was gold for resilience, not the same honor you were presumably saving for S1 PvP epics. Pointless.

Those are the old costs back before they got replaced by honor gear, they are obviously not going to charge exactly the same for season one and the blue gear it replaced.  Its going to cost gold.

[Azaroth]

Is there an approximate date?

[Simond]

Is there an approximate date?

Haha.

On a slightly more productive note, Patchtimer says it's been 86 days since 2.3, and the most recent patches appear to be on a ~100-120day cycle, sooo...end of March? Maybe?

[Merusk]

That would fit about right.  They said it's the last content patch before WOTLK, which is expected in Q4.  End of March for 2.4, a few weeks of tweaks and then a 150-200 day wait for WOTLK with *maybe* a balance/ bug pass in there.  Yeah, it puts Sunwell only 6 months out from WOTLK, but they only said it would be longer than the Nax -> BC cycle, not how much longer. 

[Simond]

Yeah, it was amusing listening to the stuff from Blizzcon about Naxx ("We learnt our lesson! We're going to re-use Naxx because not enough people got to see it before the expansion!" and then announcing 25-man Sunwell in the final TBC content patch.

[Jayce]

Well, you know, the Lich King and Naxx are pretty closely linked, lore-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if it was involved somehow.

[Dren]

Uh, they're planning on charging 57,000 honor and 130 marks for a set? Excitement over, I thought it was gold for resilience, not the same honor you were presumably saving for S1 PvP epics. Pointless.

Those are the old costs back before they got replaced by honor gear, they are obviously not going to charge exactly the same for season one and the blue gear it replaced.  Its going to cost gold.

Yeah this kind of cascading of seasonal gear makes a lot of sense.  You can't keep pushing bigger and better items into the higher tiers of seasons and now allow the newb to get in at a decent "cost."  If you did, then the gap between have's and have-not's would just get bigger and bigger.

[Merusk]

Well, you know, the Lich King and Naxx are pretty closely linked, lore-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if it was involved somehow.

Speaking of Lore and Nax:  I got into Durnhold early the other day and decided to visit Southshore and check out the Ashbringer discussion again while waiting for my group.  I was surprised to see Kel'thuzad walking up the path towards me.   CoT is such a nifty way to introduce lore into the game for the folks who don't know it.  They need to do a lot more with it.

[WindupAtheist]

Warlock raid DPS has been due for a nerf.

I don't know about raids, but I level lots with a warlock and just from my layman's perspective they seem horribly overpowered.  The one I roll with does shitloads of damage, has fear and a bunch of other tricks, rarely needs healed, and never runs out of mana.  She literally never eats or drinks, and hands me the mana potions that drop like "Here, I never use these anyway."

[Merusk]

They're horribly, grossly, ridiculously overpowered in raids.  Our top 'lock can do 10-12% of the total damage himself on any single fight.

If 17 people are doing damage you should average about 6% per person (if everyone has equal gear/ skill, etc...) The next closest is me or a rogue, depending on the fight, and the highest we get is 6-7% of the total.  Locks are fucking insane.

[Mrbloodworth]

Warlock raid DPS has been due for a nerf.

I don't know about raids, but I level lots with a warlock and just from my layman's perspective they seem horribly overpowered.  The one I roll with does shitloads of damage, has fear and a bunch of other tricks, rarely needs healed, and never runs out of mana.  She literally never eats or drinks, and hands me the mana potions that drop like "Here, I never use these anyway."

Warlocks are basically necromancers in every other game. They leach from others, or the pet.

But, talents make a huge difference, ask your friends what they spent talent point in.

[DraconianOne]

They're horribly, grossly, ridiculously overpowered in raids.  Our top 'lock can do 10-12% of the total damage himself on any single fight.

If 17 people are doing damage you should average about 6% per person (if everyone has equal gear/ skill, etc...) The next closest is me or a rogue, depending on the fight, and the highest we get is 6-7% of the total.  Locks are fucking insane.

Of course 'locks are fucking insane.  Also, THEY FUCKING RULE!   

It makes up for years of being last to be picked for the team.  Before TBC I well remember reading in the 'lock forums complaints about the fact that the only reason any raid had a lock in it was to summon people as and when necessary.  Then they were told to stand at the back and not get in the way.

[Teleku]

Locks were gimped when the game first came out.  Since then, it has been one long string of buffs after another, and they were WAY overpowered looooong before TBC ever came out.  Years.

[Fraeg]

I looked at the Rogue change, laughed, and then realised it might make Envenom worth using now.

at work in "lock down" but off the top of my head that is a decent pve boost.

[SurfD]

Locks were gimped when the game first came out.  Since then, it has been one long string of buffs after another, and they were WAY overpowered looooong before TBC ever came out.  Years.

Locks werent gimped, per say, rather, the old school 40 man raid mechanic + the origional limit on how many "effects" a mob could have on it meant that bringing any more then 2 or 3 locks (for the maximum 3 raid beneficial curses) wasnt practical because they would keep bumping everyone elses damage effects off the mob (nothing like losing a huge rolling ignite stack on something because the 3rd wheel extra warlock threw up curse of agony).

Once they drastically increased the total number of effects that you could stick on a mob, that problem went away.

The other thing you have to consider about warlocks is the fucking REDICULOUS synergy they get with shadowpriests, and the way having a few of their abilities mesh and stack nearly exponentially increases their dps.  Where as a fire mage stacking 5 imp scorch isnt doing much for anyone other then the rest of the fire mages (lol, searing totem?)

And yes, locks have obscenely OBSCENELY over powered mana efficiency.  A mage can spam pots + gems and still be out of mana at the end of a fight like nightbane, where as a lock could spend every one of those pot cooldowns on destruction pots or something similar, and still finish the fight with pretty much FULL mana simply because Lifetap + assorted drains + the odd heal + healthstones = unlimited mana for any lock with a decent damage rotation.

And as someone who's main was a mage, dont even get me started on how overpowered seed spam is for aoe fights :/

[Modern Angel]

Hahaha... remember when they said that they would put out yearly expansions? Or even further back when they said they would release at least bug fixes monthly? Haha, man that was rich.


Seriously, what the fuck is going on over there? At some point you have to wonder how a company with more money than a Jesus made out of money can do this BADLY at content release.

[Venkman]

Why would they limit Manna Biscuits to 80?

[Jayce]

Why would they limit Manna Biscuits to 80?

I think it's because people were swiping the entire table's worth of food for themselves.

[Zetor]

The better fix would've been to limit everyone except the table's creator to 4 'clicks' per table. That would solve the problem, and yet allow the caster to get as many cookies as they want [for possible redistribution later]. But that might've been hard to implement or something. 

Not that it really matters, even in a full kara run I barely use 3 stacks of biscuits on my restoration shaman as it is.


-- Z.

[WindupAtheist]

Seriously, what the fuck is going on over there? At some point you have to wonder how a company with more money than a Jesus made out of money can do this BADLY at content release.

Given the industry standard of spewing out unfinished shit, they can take as long as they like.

[Modern Angel]

I contrast with EQ2 which definitely doesn't spew out unfinished shit anymore. That's the gold standard for decent content turnaround.

[Righ]

And yet their game still looks like an English rock festival held on a rainy day in a muddy field. Its a grim, depressing place to be, and its filled with odd looking characters who appear to be stoned.

[Jayce]

And yet their game still looks like an English rock festival held on a rainy day in a muddy field. Its a grim, depressing place to be, and its filled with odd looking characters who appear to be stoned.

I don't know that the look has anything to do with the content delivery cycle.

That said, I'm with WUA on this one - maybe the EQ2 team has some golden sauce to make them able to spew out perfect content often, but most other MMOGs I know of don't.  WoW is refreshing in that sense, and they buy enough goodwill from me to be tolerant.

[Modern Angel]

That wouldn't change the fact that maybe the whole damned system is broken, that even though their content may be GOOD it's still glacially slow.

[Simond]

Good, fast, bug-free.

Pick two.

[Threash]

They removed the attunement quests to hyjal and black temple, made it so you can fight vashj and kael without clearing the other bosses in those zones and they are adding bt quality loot to the badge vendors.  Wow, they actually do get it.

[Ratman_tf]

They removed the attunement quests to hyjal and black temple, made it so you can fight vashj and kael without clearing the other bosses in those zones and they are adding bt quality loot to the badge vendors.  Wow, they actually do get it.

The damage mods for Warsong Gulch are a step in the right direction. I hate flag stalemates.

Personally, I'd like to see a 15-20 minute timer on the damn BG, and ties give one mark each.

I really hate flag stalemates.

[Threash]

They removed the attunement quests to hyjal and black temple, made it so you can fight vashj and kael without clearing the other bosses in those zones and they are adding bt quality loot to the badge vendors.  Wow, they actually do get it.

The damage mods for Warsong Gulch are a step in the right direction. I hate flag stalemates.

Personally, I'd like to see a 15-20 minute timer on the damn BG, and ties give one mark each.

I really hate flag stalemates.

All it needs is reinforcements like av.  90 per side, each flag cap takes away 30 each kill takes away 1.

[Ratman_tf]

They removed the attunement quests to hyjal and black temple, made it so you can fight vashj and kael without clearing the other bosses in those zones and they are adding bt quality loot to the badge vendors.  Wow, they actually do get it.

The damage mods for Warsong Gulch are a step in the right direction. I hate flag stalemates.

Personally, I'd like to see a 15-20 minute timer on the damn BG, and ties give one mark each.

I really hate flag stalemates.

All it needs is reinforcements like av.  90 per side, each flag cap takes away 30 each kill takes away 1.

That would work. I haven't played much Alterac Valley. 

[Righ]

Good, fast, bug-free.

Pick two.

Good, fast, bug-free.

Work weekends or we'll hire somebody else.

[Ironwood]

Ha!

Said the Addict to the Crack Dealer.

Come On, Righ, you KNOW better.

[Falwell]

I also dig what they're doing with the T6 gear for the transition to SW from BT.

Basically they've added in boots, bracers and belt into the T6 set bringing it up to an 8 piece setup. The kicker is, no new set bonuses. Reason?

So you can still get the T6 set bonuses via the new 3 pieces +1 and also get the benefits of the ridiculously nasty T6.5 coming out of SW. I hope this trend continues into WotLK.

[Chimpy]

I also dig what they're doing with the T6 gear for the transition to SW from BT.

Basically they've added in boots, bracers and belt into the T6 set bringing it up to an 8 piece setup. The kicker is, no new set bonuses. Reason?

So you can still get the T6 set bonuses via the new 3 pieces +1 and also get the benefits of the ridiculously nasty T6.5 coming out of SW. I hope this trend continues into WotLK.

Well, for some classes, the off-set legs/hat from BT/Hyjal are actually vastly superior to the t6. I am sure as soon as the belt drops, all of our tanks will go with the offset hat/legs and still keep 4pc.

I find the hunter itemization on those very odd. Hunter t6 has almost no hit on it, and the only way hunters can get close to the hit cap while wearing t6 is by wearing items with hit in the non-set slots. They did not put a single ounce of hit on those new t6 pieces.

[Venkman]

Most of the stuff I've read coming with WotLK (or heck, even just Sunwell) aren't all that world-turning. So what is really making things take so long?

Could it be business reasons? Seriously, there's business reasons to hold things out, and having missed Holiday 2007 season, they could have just decided to add an entire year. If you look at their history, they're not exactly "launch when it's ready" type folks. They're more like picking-a-great-market-window with a +/- of a few weeks. We often don't know what that market window is, but they need to at least a few months prior. You don't go from GM build to on-shelf overnight.

Could it also be the CGI movie? Seems the wrong reason to hold back an expansion, but given the fairly public perception that the BC movie was not as good as the launch one, they might be unwilling to having a less-than-perfect WotLK one. At this point, anything that puts a kink in the "we're for the gamers first and only" armor is a weakspot for competitors to exploit. And at this point, they can't afford to be glacial and late and not awesome, otherwise it wouldn't have been worth the wait.

Probably just overthinking it again.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, you are.