WAR - another newsletter - more RvR, less sport PvP

[Triforcer]

So does the table top game have races which are far more popular than the others?  I'm curious about how they will handle population imbalances if it winds up that four in five people play as either chaos or greenskins.

That's highly unlikely.  If I had to guess, pop breakdown would be as follows:

1.  Dark Elves
2.  Humans
3.  High Elves
4.  Chaos
5.  Greenskins
6.  Dwarves

If anything, Chaos will have the pop problem because Order has two "pretty" races, and they only have one. 

EDIT:  But the pop. imbalance problem is my greatest worry about this game.  At least in DAoC, three realms made it easier for the weaklings to gang up and fight the strong one (aka Albion).  What's to stop 90% of the servers from devolving into a 70-30 curbstomping where the three weak capital cities are getting sacked every week? 

[tasmia]

I've decided that the first fantasy MMO that comes out without elves will earn my lifetime loyalty.  I'm sick of elves.

Asheron's Call

[Nebu]

I should have said "next" instead of "first".

FWIW I played AC for a long time.  Eventually I got sick of buffing myself 2 out of every 10 minutes and went back to DAoC.

[eldaec]

Conan then I guess?

I take it potbs doesn't count?

[Nebu]

Conan then I guess?

I take it potbs doesn't count?

Fantasy was the operative term (i.e. swords and sorcery).  So PotBS wouldn't fit.  AoC may be my only hope.

[Rondaror]

What is it with people missing the point of Simond's posts in this thread?

Lousy english skills, combined with lousy comprehension skills 

Does EVE have more subs then DAoC at its prime?

Edit: MMORPGchart.com states

DAoC: 250k active subs
EVE: 225k active subs

Figures appear to be world-wide not Europe only though.

EVE constant grows, while DAoC's climax was 2004-2005 (actual 50k)

Big chance that EVE is going to pass DAoC in the near future.

[Nebu]

Does EVE have more subs then DAoC at its prime?

BRING OUT THE PIE CHART!

[Rondaror]

Does EVE have more subs then DAoC at its prime?

BRING OUT THE PIE CHART!

Didn't want to do that.

[Riggswolfe]

That's highly unlikely.  If I had to guess, pop breakdown would be as follows:

1.  Dark Elves
2.  Humans
3.  High Elves
4.  Chaos
5.  Greenskins
6.  Dwarves

This depends on how many TT players this brings in. If it brings in TT guys you're going to see a ton of Greenskins and Dark Elves. I'd put Greenskins on the top of the list as they used to be the most heavily played group I saw.

[WayAbvPar]

There is an actual race called greenskins? Or is that some clever nickname?

[HaemishM]

Nickname for Orcs.

[IainC]

Umbrella term that describes Orcs, Goblins, Snotlings and related creatures. Not all of whom are actually green.

[WayAbvPar]

Ah ok. I thought maybe there was a football team somewhere that thought it was an appropriate nickname 

[Morfiend]

That's highly unlikely.  If I had to guess, pop breakdown would be as follows:

1.  Dark Elves
2.  Humans
3.  High Elves
4.  Chaos
5.  Greenskins
6.  Dwarves

If anything, Chaos will have the pop problem because Order has two "pretty" races, and they only have one. 

I dont know about this. I am of two minds. One that says you are correct, going off of WoWs population numbers. But, a lot of PVPers are going to flock to this game, and we all know how a lot of those guys can be "I aM 3V1l!1!!!!". I think there is a chance that we will see Chaos on top, by a huge margin.

[Merusk]

Yes, I expect to see Chaos/ Evil dominate the server pop. Greenskins in particular, because "only fags play elves!"

 

Hell, LOtD was one of the FEW dedicated PVP guilds to go "good" as Alliance for WoW, and they said "never, ever again" recently.  You can expect the "evil r00lz" machismo factor to remain in full-force across all the hardcore PVPers for WAR.

[Fordel]

There will be one server where all the 'hardcore' designate as "TEH SERVAR" to play on and that one server will have a Chaos population advantage.

Every other server will be full of Humans and HighElves, with DarkElves behind those two. It's been shown again and again, the bulk of a MMO's player base prefers to be Human or Near Human, and they also prefer to be the 'good guys'. For every person who wants to be a Chaos CrabMonster, there will be four who want to be a Warrior Priest of Sigmar, cleansing the chaotic taint from the land.


Basically, it's going to be very quiet and lonely in the Dwarf/Orc area's 

[Nebu]

Basically, it's going to be very quiet and lonely in the Dwarf/Orc area's 

Depending on how the game flushes out, it could turn out to be lonely everywhere. 

[Arrrgh]

Basically, it's going to be very quiet and lonely in the Dwarf/Orc area's 

Depending on how the game flushes out, it could turn out to be lonely everywhere. 

Well, there are dwarf RP guilds.

http://www.delving.com/

Not sure if there are orc RP guilds. Don't recall running into any.

[WayAbvPar]

I want to go dwarf so I can resurrect the proud Shattersack clan.

[tmp]

Yes, I expect to see Chaos/ Evil dominate the server pop. Greenskins in particular, because "only fags play elves!"

 

I think it was actually leaked as problem in their current beta. I.e. the population was heavily skewed towards the "evil" due to evil = cool mindset.

So yup, sounds about right.

[Morfiend]

Not sure if there are orc RP guilds. Don't recall running into any.

Shadowclan Orcs where one of the first big race RP guilds.

[Calantus]

How could you forget the Shadowclan. They are THE RP PVP guild.

[Montague]

There will be one server where all the 'hardcore' designate as "TEH SERVAR" to play on and that one server will have a Chaos population advantage.

Every other server will be full of Humans and HighElves, with DarkElves behind those two. It's been shown again and again, the bulk of a MMO's player base prefers to be Human or Near Human, and they also prefer to be the 'good guys'. For every person who wants to be a Chaos CrabMonster, there will be four who want to be a Warrior Priest of Sigmar, cleansing the chaotic taint from the land.


Basically, it's going to be very quiet and lonely in the Dwarf/Orc area's 

Agreed, but I wonder how much the WoW dynamic will play into this. A lot of the players who prefer to play good guys (myself included) are now fully aware of what happens when the side you pick is full of keyboard-turning 9 year olds. Be interesting to see if the tide reverses and Order becomes the underdog faction.

[Cadaverine]

Eh, I played Hibernia in DAoC, so god knows, I'll be playing a Dwarf.  Sadly, Dwarf Witch Hunter is not an option.  Probably too 

[Merusk]

There will be one server where all the 'hardcore' designate as "TEH SERVAR" to play on and that one server will have a Chaos population advantage.

Every other server will be full of Humans and HighElves, with DarkElves behind those two. It's been shown again and again, the bulk of a MMO's player base prefers to be Human or Near Human, and they also prefer to be the 'good guys'. For every person who wants to be a Chaos CrabMonster, there will be four who want to be a Warrior Priest of Sigmar, cleansing the chaotic taint from the land.

Except that this has been marketed as a pvp-centric game.  I don't expect many, if any, PVE-4-lyfe types to do more than give WAR a casual check-out.  tmp mentioned that the beta already seems to be suffering from this problem.. just like WoW did in beta.  Back in 2003 people said it'd even out in release, and we know how that turned-out.

[rk47]

Basically, it's going to be very quiet and lonely in the Dwarf/Orc area's 

all they gotta do is buff the orcs/dwarf. You seem to be forgetting the minmaxers who love nothing more than a 5% less chance to be stunned and somewat unique racials that is only useful in PVP most of the time.

[Threash]

Anyone who doesnt think the side with the good elves is going to have a huge population advantage is pretty deluded.  Greenskins? are you kidding? it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.  The only thing that might keep populations relatively balanced is dark elves, but i doubt evil elves will have anywhere near the appeal as high elves.

[Fordel]

Agreed, but I wonder how much the WoW dynamic will play into this. A lot of the players who prefer to play good guys (myself included) are now fully aware of what happens when the side you pick is full of keyboard-turning 9 year olds. Be interesting to see if the tide reverses and Order becomes the underdog faction.

Probably not much at all in the end. People will roll chaos to be on the 'mature' side of the fence, only to discover Barrens chat is live and well. So not only are they still stuck with retards, they are some ugly crab monster stuck with retards. Ugly Crab monster, stuck with retards, stuck in a fucked up swamp where trees have eyeballs and noses and stupid shit like that.

"BLOODZ 4 TEH BLODDZ GAWDZ!!!!!11!"

[amiable]

Probably not much at all in the end. People will roll chaos to be on the 'mature' side of the fence, only to discover Barrens chat is live and well. So not only are they still stuck with retards, they are some ugly crab monster stuck with retards. Ugly Crab monster, stuck with retards, stuck in a fucked up swamp where trees have eyeballs and noses and stupid shit like that.

"BLOODZ 4 TEH BLODDZ GAWDZ!!!!!11!"

Yeah...  I forsee that if Mythic doesn't take pop imbalance seriously they are setting themselves up for some pretty Epic fail.  Especially since the game revolves around sacking your opponents cities.

[Miasma]

Anyone who doesnt think the side with the good elves is going to have a huge population advantage is pretty deluded.  Greenskins? are you kidding? it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.  The only thing that might keep populations relatively balanced is dark elves, but i doubt evil elves will have anywhere near the appeal as high elves.

This isn't WoW, I didn't even know there were good elves in Warhammer until I read a FAQ.  Whenever I hear people talk about Warhammer I hear greenskins, chaos, witches, empire.  People have already alluded to the fact that evil is more popular in the beta.

From what I've read a serious population imbalance in this game could really screw it up.  As mentioned DAoC had three sides so the two could always gang up on one but that won't be an option in Warhammer.  Even if they buff the weaker side there are other mechanics that will screw things up like how the cities gain levels based on how many people are questing which will make the city much harder to take.  People will also flock to whatever side they think will win because they want to be on the side destroying enemy cities, not defending.

And in WoW it wasn't just that the horde was ugly, their cities, quests and zones sucked by comparison too.

[tmp]

it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.

Well, when the game is focused on world PvP it *may* matter which side have better PvPers. Just a tiny bit. 

edit:

but i doubt evil elves will have anywhere near the appeal as high elves.

high elf: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/highelves/SMas02.jpg
dark elf: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/darkelves/socc_07.jpg

[Simond]

it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.

Well, when the game is focused on world PvP it *may* matter which side have better PvPers. Just a tiny bit. 

There's a WoW comic somewhere that says something like "If you're fighting a zerg and you take away the AFKers, the people who run in the wrong direction or get lost, and the people who just plain suck at PvP...you'll still be outnumbered"

[Mrbloodworth]

it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.

Well, when the game is focused on world PvP it *may* matter which side have better PvPers. Just a tiny bit. 

There's a WoW comic somewhere that says something like "If you're fighting a zerg and you take away the AFKers, the people who run in the wrong direction or get lost, and the people who just plain suck at PvP...you'll still be outnumbered"

That was "The Noob".

[tmp]

There's a WoW comic somewhere that says something like "If you're fighting a zerg and you take away the AFKers, the people who run in the wrong direction or get lost, and the people who just plain suck at PvP...you'll still be outnumbered"

That's noob comic like pointed out... and the problem here would be, there's no zerg to rely on when fights are performed in limited population environment. There you just get one side repeatedly curb stomping the other... and that in turn has certain impact on population numbers.

[Raging Turtle]

it doesn't matter what the "hardcore pvpers" pick, that only means that side will have the better pvpers.

Well, when the game is focused on world PvP it *may* matter which side have better PvPers. Just a tiny bit. 

edit:

but i doubt evil elves will have anywhere near the appeal as high elves.

high elf: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/highelves/SMas02.jpg
dark elf: http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/darkelves/socc_07.jpg

Boobies will always triumph over good.