Cautiously optimistic about AVP2.

[Margalis]

Again probably an example of the wrong person for the job. You have a very colorful director and a smarmy funny guy directing and writing Aliens?

I don't blame either Whedon or the director all that much, it's really the fault of whoever hired them trying to put a square peg in a round hole. It would be like hiring Kevin Smith to write Ben Hur 2.

I am not a fan of Whedon at all but I can't really blame him for delivering what he always delivers. A:R turned out how anyone should have expected given the names attached.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Blame Joss Whedon.

Nah, it wasn't Whedon's fault.  The movie that actually got made was very different than what he wrote.  The humor in A4 is markedly different and isn't even in Whedon's style, a fact which I suspect is due to the director.  If there's one thing that's true in Hollywood, it's that a writer has no power.

PS: Firefly was lovely.

[stray]

Lovely. Now that's a good word. Hmm. I could possibly replace "awesome" with it. Fuck that "splendid" shit.

[Ironwood]

Let's not start talking about Cordelias' Mouth.

[WindupAtheist]

I read some more of those Alien 3 scripts.  Gibson's needed some work, but it was the best of the lot.  There was another one that had Ripley and everyone dead before the movie started with a bunch of new guys fighting the aliens, which was just totally unacceptable, but at least vaguely resembled an Alien movie.  The rest were all pure nonsense.

[Riggswolfe]

Blame Joss Whedon.

Nah, it wasn't Whedon's fault.  The movie that actually got made was very different than what he wrote.  The humor in A4 is markedly different and isn't even in Whedon's style, a fact which I suspect is due to the director.  If there's one thing that's true in Hollywood, it's that a writer has no power.

PS: Firefly was lovely.

What Mace said is true on all counts. Also, if you don't like Firefly then you just don't like fun and want the terrorists to win!

[Ironwood]

Gibson had people turning into Aliens?  That was in the original cut of the first movie. They had these pods/ cocoon things made and everything, but they decided to cut it because it wasn't working right.  Ridley Scott kept one of the 'cocoons' and slept in it during shooting because he said they were incredibly comfortable. 

If you've ever read the novelization of the first movie, you know what I'm talking about.  It's in the scene where Ripley comes into contact with the Captian after he's been taken by the critter.

Uh...no it wasn't. The deleted scene in the first movie was basically just a cocoon scene like in Aliens. The biggest difference is that the alien could produce eggs on its own which lead to a subplot in the novel of "this thing must NOT reach Earth" if memory serves.

Actually, I hate to back up anyone, but according the Alan Dean Foster novelisation, the alien could, in fact, turn human subjects into 'eggs' that produced Huggers.

It actually makes the alien lifecycle a little more believable in the context of the film (no Queen at that stage) and resulted in Dallas being cocooned and proper fucked by Brett.

I cannot comment on what the film actually intended to do with this idea, but that was what was in the script.

Disclaimer :  I thought the idea sucked balls and was glad that not only did they take it out, but that Gibsons script went south.  Unimaginative shite.  I far prefer the bees analogy, even tho it makes Aliens a TRULY parasitical organism.

[Riggswolfe]

Hmmm...maybe I misinterpreted then. To me it just looked like what we saw in the later movies with people cocooned, it just cut out the face hugger as being necessary.

[Roac]

Hmmm...maybe I misinterpreted then. To me it just looked like what we saw in the later movies with people cocooned, it just cut out the face hugger as being necessary.

Aliens had cocoons, but it didn't go into what they were used for.  I assumed at the time (decades ago now) that it was either their idea of a fridge, so meat doesn't go bad, or so that they could have better control over who got face-hugged and the embryo that popped out.  That was to that point the only uses for humans that were revealed.

[Ironwood]

The cocoon scene
The 2003 Special Edition also featured the infamous "missing scene from Alien", in which Ripley, before activating the Nostromo's self-destruct, enters the Alien's nest on her way to the shuttle. There she finds two of her crew mates cocooned in the creature's hardened saliva, mutating into alien eggs: a lifeless and almost unrecognizable Brett; and a dying Captain Dallas, who begs of Ripley to kill him with her flamethrower. This she eventually does before continuing toward the shuttle.

For the original 1979 release of Alien, Ridley Scott and the film's producers had still opted for a removal of the scene, because they felt that it destroyed the pacing of the film's climax.[44] The omission of the "cocoon scene" allowed James Cameron to extend the xenomorph's life cycle for the sequel Aliens and to introduce the concept of the alien hive built around the alien queen. The re-insertion of the "cocoon scene" into the Special Edition of Alien breached the factual life-cycle canon introduced in Aliens, because the scene implies that a rogue alien warrior can reproduce without the presence of an alien queen.[45]

This original alien life cycle theory had its origins in a proposal by screenwriter Dan O'Bannon. Prior to the release of the Special Edition only Foster's novelization implied it: there the cocoon (including the victim) slowly mutated into an alien egg that would eventually give birth to a new facehugger.[46] Some fans considered O'Bannon's theory as canon and criticized James Cameron's revised alien life-cycle in the sequel Aliens (where the alien queen has the duty of laying the eggs) as disregarding this alleged canon. In a 1992 issue of Starlog magazine Cameron explicitly answered some of the fans' accusations and questions, stating that a scene missing from a film, with its interpretation and intention known only through a film's novelization, would not suffice as canon and would overly restrict him as a storyteller.[47]

God Bless The Wiki.

[Hoax]

My understanding from the comics was that the "queen" produced eggs which produced facehuggers, but that it was possible for a warrior to become a queen if there was no queen to keep the colony running.  Which led to one of my favorite comic arcs where there were black and red aliens (ants lol) fighting eachother on this fucked up planet because somehow (I forget the details) there were two queens.  It was a pretty good series, where as usual the humans thought they had shit under wraps but didn't.

[Mortriden]

I have to back up everyone here who's been mentioning the Dark Horse Comics.  The three groups mentioned above with Newt being a fucked up mental patient, Hicks an on-the-edge Marine, and Ripley no where to be found are just awesome.  Even the story arc where the Aliens get to earth is well done. 

The idea of the Gov. trying to turn the Aliens into weapons from Alien 4 is stolen directly from this series. 

[DraconianOne]

Wasn't the series with the black and red aliens called Hive and featured an "android" alien as well which was meant to infiltrate the hive and research it? 

The Aliens comics were far better than most of the Predator comics though - I think the first Predator spin off had Dutch Shaeffer's brother as the protagonist although, much like Predator 2, it was set in a city and he was a cop.  If I recall, rain stopped play on that one. 

Going back to AvP though, the ultimate combination would surely be Aliens vs Predator vs Terminator.  That would be totally awesome.  Obviously Bill Paxton and Lance Henriksen would both have to star being the only two people to be killed by each.

[Riggswolfe]

I agree. I have the first three graphic novels of these series and love them. I think I'm probably with those of you who just likes to pretend that those DH books are the real sequels to Aliens.

[Zetleft]

I have to back up everyone here who's been mentioning the Dark Horse Comics.  The three groups mentioned above with Newt being a fucked up mental patient, Hicks an on-the-edge Marine, and Ripley no where to be found are just awesome.  Even the story arc where the Aliens get to earth is well done. 

The idea of the Gov. trying to turn the Aliens into weapons from Alien 4 is stolen directly from this series. 

Loved that run and I probably still have them somewhere.  Remember Hicks was all scarred from the acid and was basically a Pariah in the series.  If only they had ran with that story after Aliens. 

[Hoax]

Wasn't the series with the black and red aliens called Hive and featured an "android" alien as well which was meant to infiltrate the hive and research it?

Nope.  That was YET ANOTHER awesome DH series.  The robot was fucking pwnage against aliens and was named Frank or Hank or something.  Meanwhile there was a sentient talking alien android who smoked cigars and hung out with the humans.  I forget how that book played out but the robot could fucking smash aliens like none other.

The black and red books were about super advanced company funded troops landing on the planet to steal royal jelly.  You might remember the landing scene, they launched these giant harpoons in a perimeter and the harpoons formed this sort of gel shield that the aliens couldn't fuck with.  The aliens caught inside were just slaughtered by these super badasses who had crazy powerful anti-alien armor.  Then the classic, human sabotaging other humans shit starts and the super badasses start getting off'd meanwhile the two queen dynamic had some interesting shit going on.  I forget the details, I may need to get my hands on those again.

If I remember right this was all because the cannon had accepted the notion that alien royal jelly made humans think they were invulnerable, there were scenes where a marine taking it has his arm shot off and still kills like 18 people before they take him down because he's super fast super strong etc.  It was a silly mechanic but the stories they did as a result were fucking cool.

P.S.  The novels were awesome too, they did a hell of a job with the aliens landing on earth and taking over.  If I remember right it was a 4 book sequence?

[Margalis]

People being mutated into eggs makes very little sense.

The idea that a lone warrior can become a queen makes perfect sense and is common in the insect world.

[WindupAtheist]

I've never read the comics, but in the books I had they changed Hicks and Newt into Wilks and Billie, presumably because Alien 3 had come along and killed the former pair.  Was Ripley an android in the comics like she was in the books?

Anyway, the whole thing with them lasted three books.  Even with the hamfisted Alien 3 retcons, they were pretty good light reading.  Better than about 99% of all the Star Wars books that have ever come out, for example.

The black and red books were about super advanced company funded troops landing on the planet to steal royal jelly.

Maybe the comic was good, but the novelization was fucking terrible.  I still have it lying around here somewhere.  The author wrote in a really bizzare inauthentic authorial voice that made me think they weren't comfortable with the "Rah rah!" perspective they were presenting, and was addicted to weird corny metaphors besides.

Music of the Spears was a good one, especially considering that the alien spent the vast majority of the story in a cage.  Basically there's this drug-addled experimental musician who persuades his employers to let him keep an alien in captivity and torture it, having it kill other animals/people, so he can sample the sounds to use in his work.  The law is trying to track it down, corporate thugs are feeding rival executives to it, and said musician is becoming more and more deranged as time goes by.  Finally it breaks loose, and some action ensues.

[Jain Zar]

I've never read the comics, but in the books I had they changed Hicks and Newt into Wilks and Billie, presumably because Alien 3 had come along and killed the former pair.  Was Ripley an android in the comics like she was in the books?

Anyway, the whole thing with them lasted three books.  Even with the hamfisted Alien 3 retcons, they were pretty good light reading.  Better than about 99% of all the Star Wars books that have ever come out, for example.

The same basic story as the comics.  In the original comics (and possibly novels) it was Hicks, Newt, and Ripley as they actually SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCK YOU SIGOURNEY WEAVER YOU NARCISSISTIC BITCH and no android shenanigans.

The Predator comic miniseries sets were pretty lame except for the first one which was just fun glorious 80s movie badass cheese.

[Simond]

Going back to AvP though, the ultimate combination would surely be Aliens vs Predator vs Terminator.  That would be totally awesome.  Obviously Bill Paxton and Lance Henriksen would both have to star being the only two people to be killed by each.

Only if they tied in the "Robocop vs Terminator" comic as well.

[Merusk]

Going back to AvP though, the ultimate combination would surely be Aliens vs Predator vs Terminator.  That would be totally awesome.  Obviously Bill Paxton and Lance Henriksen would both have to star being the only two people to be killed by each.

Only if they tied in the "Robocop vs Terminator" comic as well.

This is beginning to sound like the Ultimate Battle for Ultimate Destiny.

[Hoax]

I will say this, if you like comics at all, and you've never seen the Batman v Predator graphic novel?  You are fucking missing out.  That was awesome.  The 'pred keeps picking up bits of unsavory English from people he's in the process of killing so when he's fighting Batman he keeps throwing out these random phrases in English, also the fights are damn cool.

[Mortriden]

The Red and Black series was definitely bad ass.  Little things made it even more full of win.  Like how the smell of the Aliens filtered through the shield...

The Batman vs. Pred series was great.  You can pick out how it's going to end pretty early in the series, but it's awesome none the less.

[Der Helm]

What is this Highlander sequel people keep talking about ? There never was a sequel.

[rk47]

Going back to AvP though, the ultimate combination would surely be Aliens vs Predator vs Terminator.  That would be totally awesome.  Obviously Bill Paxton and Lance Henriksen would both have to star being the only two people to be killed by each.

Only if they tied in the "Robocop vs Terminator" comic as well.

This is beginning to sound like the Ultimate Battle for Ultimate Destiny.

Terminator comes back in time to prevent a crashed Predator craft that carries captured alien eggs from obliterating John Connor's hometown, that could potentially alter the future at the same time a law enforcement officer who barely survived an alien attack was turned into a robot police?

[stray]

I'd much rather go for Bruce Willis as John McClane-except-he's-not-actually-named-John McClane vs Aliens.

[edit] On second thought, no.. That McClane character needs human villains to taunt and fuck with.

[rk47]

no dude just think about it, predator will record his taunts and taunts him back 

[Teleku]

NOW I HAVE A MACHINE GUN.


HO HO HO

[Velorath]

Just did a dry run of it at work.  It's pretty much what I expected, with the R-rated trailer giving away most of the good parts, although there were still some decent surprises.  It's a pretty short movie, and every minute the movie spends focusing on the humans is a chore to sit though, with acting and dialogue on par with the average after school special.  Of course people are seeing this for the 20 minutes or so of the Predator fighting Aliens anyway, and in that respect, I thought it was a bit better than the first AVP.  Sure there's still a lot of moments where you can't tell what the fuck is happening on screen (which happens to be one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to movies), but the cool shit more than makes up for it.

[schild]

Pretty much what every Predator fan expected. I'd been waiting for you to post in this thread today. :)

[Velorath]

Pretty much what every Predator fan expected. I'd been waiting for you to post in this thread today. :)

Some friends of mine at work called me in to watch it with them, since I actually had yesterday off (good movie to watch with friends).  One other good thing I will say about it, is that there are some pretty brutal death scenes, and even kids aren't safe.  AVP was only rated PG-13, but this movie gets a pretty solid R rating.

[Riggswolfe]

Sure there's still a lot of moments where you can't tell what the fuck is happening on screen (which happens to be one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to movies), but the cool shit more than makes up for it.

This one sentence put it into my "avoid at all costs" category.Oh well.

[Velorath]

Sure there's still a lot of moments where you can't tell what the fuck is happening on screen (which happens to be one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to movies), but the cool shit more than makes up for it.

This one sentence put it into my "avoid at all costs" category.Oh well.

I do find that kind of thing frustrating any time I see it (which is in just about every movie that has a lot of close combat action sequences).  Any time I can't figure out what I'm seeing on the screen I think is a moment that the director has failed.  That said, the majority of the action sequences in the first AVP felt that way to me (although to be fair, I haven't watched it since the one time I saw it in the theater, so my memories of that might be exaggerated somewhat), whereas in this one it's mostly limited to the action sequences involving the hybrid.

[stray]

Batman Begins had shitty fight sequences. Didn't make it a bad movie.

On the flipside, Undefeatable has no blurring whatsoever.

[Riggswolfe]

Batman Begins had shitty fight sequences. Didn't make it a bad movie.

On the flipside, Undefeatable has no blurring whatsoever.

The Batman Begins sequences were right on the line for me. They distracted me but I was able to follow them. I think that's because Nolan is talented though if I had a choice I'd rather he didn't use that kind of fight editing.  The last 2 Bourne movies are examples of action scenes that cross that line and ruin the whole movie for me. AVP2 probably will also so I won't waste my money on it.