Transformers reinvented. Again.

[Hoax]

I can't watch Teen Titans, but damn that theme song is really catchy!

You are doing yourself a major disservice imo, I really get a kick out of the cast of that one, villains included.  It does have its fair share of cheese but its a great deal of fun, I was pissed as fuck when it ended.

[Margalis]

I'm not a fan of that art style either but Teen Titans was a very enjoyable show.

[Phildo]

I hate that most cartoons are voiced by the same 15-20 people.  Someone needs to retire Tara Strong.  And also Mona Marshall.  I have a palpable loathing for that woman.

[schild]

Mona Marshall is 60 and still playing the voice of young girls. That is fucked.

[Hoax]

I hate that most cartoons are voiced by the same 15-20 people.  Someone needs to retire Tara Strong.  And also Mona Marshall.  I have a palpable loathing for that woman.

You are hating on the VA (Tara Strong) who played Raven & Bubbles?  The problem with most voice actor/actresses is you can always tell that its them.  I don't think I would have guessed that was the same person ever.  While I agree they dont seem to go outside the known quantities nearly often enough I looked at those two imdb's and seriously worried about what you've been watching.  Anime dubs are terrible (even subs aren't great about this) but who cares if the same person is in Ben10, Jake Long, these new shitty TMNT's, Foster's & Digimon?  Ok Digimon is not like the others, if we're talking 1st or 4th seasons, those were ok.

[stray]

Ben10 --- Another great theme song!

Really, I thought good theme songs died until I heard those two.

Anyways, maybe I'll give Teen Titans a shot. Haven't seen Justice League either.

[Furiously]

Ben10 --- Another great theme song!

Really, I thought good theme songs died until I heard those two.

Anyways, maybe I'll give Teen Titans a shot. Haven't seen Justice League either.

Justice League had a pretty good overall plot. Unlimited was just fun. Plus the Question is just fun.

[Mrbloodworth]

One series i really liked, was batman beyond. The art style was very cool.

[HaemishM]

Justice League was fantastic. Teen Titans... not so much. It went too hard on the over the top anime cheese factor for my tastes.

But this new Transformers? Even in motion?

Pure shit.

[Hoax]

Batman Beyond was sexy s3x, loved it. Justice League has great multiple ep storyarcs but most of its one-off eps were pretty meh for me.  Unlike Teen Titans which has juvenile humour and style Justice League really falls flat when your just listening to Superman and Martian Manhunter go on about dumbass shit.  The heroes are just less human and more boring.

There was an arc in Justice League where they ended up fighting with Batman Beyond and old Bruce Wayne versus future joker and some other guys that was pretty damn awesome if I remember right.  Somehow Static Shock was in that too, which was weird as hell but he was less lame then usual.

@Stray:
Finding all five seasons + the movie for Teen Titans shouldn't be hard unless you suck at internetting, if so pm me and I'll link you to a good place from which to acquire them.

P.S.  Listening to Haemish on this subject is not recommend, he reads comic books that he knows suck, based in sucky universes that just spin off shitty marketing ploys and dumbass resets all day and yet he still gives them gobs of money.  Clearly his tastes are questionable when it comes to comic related properties.  I accuse him of being too tolerant of shitty superhero accepted norms and possessing anti-anime sentiments.

In conclusion:  Teen Titans > Justice League

[Margalis]

Justice League, especially JLU, is mostly for DC fanboys. The plots are all over the place and the characters are really thin and once they get to JLU they get that much thinner now that there are 50 of them.

They tried way too hard to please everyone by throwing in everyone under the sun.

[Hoax]

I'll be honest, if it wasn't for the absolutely EPIC storyline where Darkseid is wreaking havoc and the Hawk-people show up and shit goes crazy I wouldn't really have much nice to say about Justice League.  That was some great stuff though, which kept me watching it and there were some other decent arcs like the Batman Beyond crossover.  There was also a decent arc where the US turned against the JL because they had a giant death satallite in the sky.  While that storyline has been done to death (hello Genosha) I found JL's version to be pretty fun.  Esp with the superhero's "built" by the US government angle, that was sort of well played.  But most of the inter superhero drama was just lame.  Hawkwoman & Green Latern lover quarrels, Batman being a hard case, Supes being a boyscout douche, MMH being cryptic for the sake of god knows why.  Yawn.

I also recommend the Giant Robot show from CN that was set in New Jersey, if your into giant robots, that was pretty awesome at times also.  Fucking totally spacing on the name though.  Theme song was great too.

Ah that's it.  Megas XLR was the title, pretty good fun.

Lyrics:
Living in Jersey
Fighting villians from afar
Ya gotta find first gear in your giant robot car!
You dig
(giant robots!)
I dig
(giant robots!)
We dig
(giant robots!)
Chicks dig
(giant robots!)



Nice!

[SurfD]

I only caught one ep of MegasXLR, and it had me in stitches most of the time.  One scene has them trying to find the activation switch for somethin on the dashboard, and they are scanning past all these other buttons / switches, and there is a big bunch of them labeled "Missiles", "Missiles", "More Missiles", "Even More Missiles".  Great tongue-in-cheek stuff.

[HaemishM]

Yes, I dig superhero universes. The stuff you are talking about with JL, especially the character stuff, is that way because they are staying true to the original material. Titans? Not so much, which is why I hated it, along with the art style. It just didn't mesh with the established characters in the comics, which is fine except that it's an adaptation of a comic book. I didn't say it SUCKED, it just was not for me in anyway.

And you like anime. Your taste is suspect.

[Margalis]

I don't know much about the comic book Teen Titans, so that wasn't a problem for me.

I don't know much about the DC universe in general, which is why I'm not thrilled when JLU creates throwaway one-shots about Bird Woman, Lion Woman and Big Barda or whatever the fuck.

[Hoax]

And you like anime. Your taste is suspect.

Correction, I go through the occasional anime phase, I do like the look of the artwork though.  I came from the giant robots but stayed for things like Welcome to the NHK, Black Lagoon & Samurai X.  I own very little anime, I only pay for the top shelf stuff or things that really work for me, stand by my anime dvd purchases and my list of shows to purchase.  I've read your comic threads, the fact that you keep buying Avenger comics alone makes everything you say suspect 

I do miss Sleepwalker from time to time, but they ruined that book when they had a whole bunch of them invade earth and things just got stupid in a hurry.

[Riggswolfe]

Mona Marshall is 60 and still playing the voice of young girls. That is fucked.

Ack...she did Ken's voice in Persona 3. Creepy.

And this new Transformers looks just as shitty as the Clone Wars and the new Star Wars animated series. (Which I think is a new version of the Clone Wars actually.)

[Rasix]

Ack...she did Ken's voice in Persona 3. Creepy.

The guy who voiced Junpei, not surprisingly, looks like a douche. 

And Yukari was the voice of Etna in Disgaea 2.  IMDB is fun.

[geldonyetich2]

Surprising how many big-name voice actors/actresses end up in video games these days.

MegasXLR was indeed da bomb, but (much like Invader Zim) I think their audience was too young to really appreciate it.

[Cim]

Again?

[Jain Zar]

Uh, using robotech to say im wrong is the amusing part.

Art School says im right.

If you looked at that link, or if you knew dick about Robotech/Battletech/anime you would know that every 'mech design in Battletech (DECIDEDLY WESTERN ROBOTS) was ripped directly from Robotech.

Umm. Battletech has a few HUNDRED mech designs.  About 20 of them were lifted from Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram under a wierd liscensing deal that was screwed up.

As to this Transformers?

Being a Transformers fan I no longer care what any non Transformers fan thinks as its always NOT 1984-1986 TRANSFORMERS about everything made since then.  You know, the OTHER TWENTY YEARS OF TRANSFORMERS.
The original Transformers cartoon was pure grade Z SHIT.  Try watching it now.  Its horrible.
I give each later show a chance instead of insisting it sucks without ever watching an episode.

[geldonyetich2]

Ouch.  The truth just punched my childhood. 

[Cim]

K.O.?

[Margalis]

The original shows are very watchable and quite enjoyable. After the movie things got very uneven but there were still plenty of great episodes.

[rk47]

me grimlock . smart. me leader. 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-aTbHsZJ9g

i still love this fan re-dub!

[Margalis]

This one is incredibly funny:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bq1_6D9QS9Y

[Hoax]

Uh, using robotech to say im wrong is the amusing part.

Art School says im right.

If you looked at that link, or if you knew dick about Robotech/Battletech/anime you would know that every 'mech design in Battletech (DECIDEDLY WESTERN ROBOTS) was ripped directly from Robotech.

Umm. Battletech has a few HUNDRED mech designs.  About 20 of them were lifted from Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram under a wierd liscensing deal that was screwed up.

I realize you like to post battlereport write-ups in random threads but I hope you don't think your learning me or something...   

Those 20 designs were the heart and soul of the first 2(?) editions of the game if I remember right.  The one that came with grey hex-based plastics used either entirely or 95% Harmony Gold mechs and the version that game after with the cardboard chit mechs was a 50/50 mix or so with shitty designs like the Grasshopper, Firestarter, Hermes etc being featured. 

Those 'mechs are the heavy and medium weight classes, it took them forever to come up with cool alternatives.  Shit they made IIC versions of damn near every one for the clans and eventually they redid the readouts to incorporate new art along w/ new metal models.  Ironically considering this thread those designs are hella "anime" per bloodworth's art class definition.  I'll still take Shadow Hawk, Pheonix Hawk, Griffin and Wolverine over any of the new mediums...  Those 'mechs are way more then 20 of 200.

[WindupAtheist]

All the characters were designed and initially drawn by US artists. Most animation is actually produced in Japan and Korea, including stuff like The Simpsons. The individual animators are not important, what is important is the art design. The original Transformers, while animated by Asians, was very much a US production.

Thread winner.  If it came down to which overseas company was being hired to draw all eleventy-billion individual frames, then pretty much every cartoon in the world would be "anime".

Also, anyone who can watch the Teen Titans episode "Revolution" with Malcolm McDowell trying to take back the US in the name of England and NOT be amused has no soul.  Especially the bit where the Titans get mashed by the giant Monty Python foot.

EDIT: Speaking of Teen Titans and Transformers... You've got the powerrrr! YEAH!

[Jain Zar]

Uh, using robotech to say im wrong is the amusing part.

Art School says im right.

If you looked at that link, or if you knew dick about Robotech/Battletech/anime you would know that every 'mech design in Battletech (DECIDEDLY WESTERN ROBOTS) was ripped directly from Robotech.

Umm. Battletech has a few HUNDRED mech designs.  About 20 of them were lifted from Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram under a wierd liscensing deal that was screwed up.

I realize you like to post battlereport write-ups in random threads but I hope you don't think your learning me or something...   

Those 20 designs were the heart and soul of the first 2(?) editions of the game if I remember right.  The one that came with grey hex-based plastics used either entirely or 95% Harmony Gold mechs and the version that game after with the cardboard chit mechs was a 50/50 mix or so with shitty designs like the Grasshopper, Firestarter, Hermes etc being featured. 

Those 'mechs are the heavy and medium weight classes, it took them forever to come up with cool alternatives.  Shit they made IIC versions of damn near every one for the clans and eventually they redid the readouts to incorporate new art along w/ new metal models.  Ironically considering this thread those designs are hella "anime" per bloodworth's art class definition.  I'll still take Shadow Hawk, Pheonix Hawk, Griffin and Wolverine over any of the new mediums...  Those 'mechs are way more then 20 of 200.

The Harmony Gold mechs as you call them?  Not all the designs.  Maybe... 8.  11 if you count LAMs as a seperate mech as opposed to a refit.  Wasp, Stinger (VF 1S and 1A), Pheonix Hawk (VF 1S with FAST Pack), Crusader (VF1 with GBP armor), and Marauder (Glaug Officer's Battle Pod), Rifleman (Raidar X), Warhammer (Tomahawk), and Archer (Spartan).  And Harmony Gold did the same bullshit Fasa did, cept not being a hobby game they got more cash and can thus deal with it better.

(Technically there were 2 other Macross designs used, but not very often and they aren't in any of my Technical Readouts.  I believe they were mostly in Battledroids, which was first edition Battletech with serious differences.)

The Griffin and Wolverine were not in Robotech.  (They were in the Robotech model line however.  Robots were liscensed all over the damned place in the 80s.)  The Griffin was a Soltic Roundfacer from Fang of the Sun Dougram which was pretty much a 90 odd episode anime version of Battletech before Battletech anyhow.  (Which is probably why so few Weaboos know or care of it.  Its got realistic looking robots in it and not a bunch of underaged characters being emo.)  I forget what the Wolverine is called but its fucking ugly and I don't care.  I have a little PVC capsule toy of it, but I forget its name.  Blockhead maybe.

And Battletech is pretty much under the same dealie as G1 Transformers.  Except Battletech has mostly been novels and a cartoon most people try to forget (Mech Assault wasn't the first time they took creatively stupid liberties with the story!).

They both took some Japanese robot designs, and gave them a good story.  Though Transformers had a kickass comic book and a bad cartoon.  Hell, Robotech is pretty much the same thing.  They took 3 shows, edited it, and made something new and generally better than the source material.  Regardless of what Collection DX or Macross World might say.   (Macross 7 sucks ass.)

There are plenty of good BT mech designs, even back when the Unseen as they are called were part of the game and in widespread use.  The Atlas, Catapult, Jenner, Panther, Hatchetman, Dragon, Awesome, Charger, Zeus, and Banshee were all cool mechs.  We start adding in Clan Invasion era up to 3055 (soon after is when the Unseen and any mechs whose artwork was not entirely owned by Fasa took a siesta) and there are plenty more.  Mad Cats and Daishis ring a bell?

And they have added in even more cool designs since.  Hauptmann, Sagittare, Shadow Cat, Cauldron Born, Bushwhacker, and Axeman come to mind.

Im not dissing the contribution of the J mecha to the game.  Hell, I have toys and models of quite  a few of those rides.  In the case of the Shadow Hawk (Dougram), I have like 5 different ones! 
But they weren't the only cool looking mechs nor were they the heart of the game.
Hell, the redesigns in some cases look better than the anime original versions.  (This would be in TR Project Pheonix.)

And some fun facts: The Macross designers at Studio Nue redesigned all the Battletech mechs for the Japanese version of the game, some of which would come back to the US as Solaris 7 arena mechs.  The Dougram mechs (Shadow Hawk, Goliath, Scorpion, Wolverine, Battlemaster, Griffin) were in whole or partially designed by the same man who did the mech designs for the original Mobile Suit Gundam.  Robotech got its name because Revell was releasing Japanese model kits under that name and when Harmony Gold needed a name for their now 3 anime series combined thingie, they entered into a partnership with Revell.  Which was handy since it got them merchandise in stores to move for Revell, and product to buy for the fans of the show.  Later on Matchbox would release a haphazard set of toys, but it would pretty much be the reason the sequel series got canned.  Their shitty toys (at least the ones they didn't just import from Japan) weren't selling so Matchbox bailed.  The models did ok for Revell, but let's face facts.  Models don't sell in insane quantities anyhow.  Another interesting fact is there was a Robotech comic based on the models that just used the Dougram designs.  It was only 2 issues, and I am quite possibly the only person on the planet who likes them.  They were sentient robots with pilots fighting invading aliens.  It was actually kinda cool.  Just too short.

[Simond]

The original Transformers cartoon was made in Japan and Korea and stylized to look somewhat western.

All the characters were designed and initially drawn by US artists.

Apart from the part where they're directly based on two lines of c1980 Japanese toys, you mean?

The toys in the 1980 line were designed by future Macross designers Shoji Kawamori and Kazutaka Miyatake (both contracted from Studio Nue), who designed the mecha and the figures respectively.

Oh, the plots and everything were certainly All-American, but the actual character designs themselves were Japanese, by people who then went on to design transforming robots for another anime.

[Mrbloodworth]

All the characters were designed and initially drawn by US artists. Most animation is actually produced in Japan and Korea, including stuff like The Simpsons. The individual animators are not important, what is important is the art design. The original Transformers, while animated by Asians, was very much a US production.

Thread winner.  If it came down to which overseas company was being hired to draw all eleventy-billion individual frames, then pretty much every cartoon in the world would be "anime".

I agree, i couldent have said it better myself. (Really i tried)

And for the record, no Robotech was decidedly "anime".

And i quote

"Robotech is a science fiction franchise that was launched by an 85-episode adaptation of three different anime television series Robotech was one of the first anime series released in the United States which largely managed to preserve the complexity and drama of its original Japanese source material. Produced by Harmony Gold USA, Inc. in association with Tatsunoko Prod. Co., Ltd., Robotech is a story adapted with edited content and revised dialogue from the animation of three different mecha anime series: The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Harmony Gold's cited reasoning for combining these unrelated series was its decision to market Macross for American weekday syndication television, which required a minimum of 65 episodes at the time (thirteen weeks at five episodes per week). Macross and the two other series each had fewer episodes than required, since they originally aired in Japan as weekly series."

The only real "Western" component was some of the writing changed. Other than that, the style was through and through anime.

[Simond]

Random tangent:
System Change!
Symmetrical Docking!

[Mrbloodworth]

Random tangent:
System Change!
Symmetrical Docking!

Sadly, i cant see youtube =(

[Lantyssa]

Sorry, had to take a few day nap there.

The only real "Western" component was some of the writing changed. Other than that, the style was through and through anime.

Anime is still not a style.  Your art school is wrong, at least given its origin.  Maybe they're being stupid and have co-opted the word.  From the wikipedia article you mentioned:

Linguistically, the anime definition is subject to interpretation. In Japan, the term does not specify an animation's nation of origin or style; instead, it is used as a blanket term to refer to all forms of animation from around the world.[11][12] In English, main dictionary sources define anime as "a Japanese style of motion-picture animation" or "a style of animation developed in Japan".[13] Common uses of the term is Japanese explicit, among Western audiences.[citation needed] Furthermore, the terms "cartoon" or "animated series" used for most other visual styles, particularly for French, Korean, and American animation.[citation needed] Any non-Japanese works are called anime-influenced animation, if they borrow any stylization from Japanese animation. Even so, some anime are co-productions with non-Japanese companies, like the Cartoon Network and Production IG series IGPX. Yet, a French-Japanese co-production such as Ōban Star-Racers is not considered anime.

Some history: The reason Western audiences even know about anime is thanks to a handful of people bringing a few series over and Americanizing them. (Yes, Robotech is one.  Not for the reason you think, and despite being completely rewritten by Macek.)  These shows stuck with the kids who were amazed that cartoons could be mature.  With the wonders overseas friends with video recorders, it became very popular for college kids to 'import' and dub every series released by Japan in the early to mid '90s.  Categorically, the word 'anime' was used to describe any animated project originating from Japan.  It was a simplistic way to recognize the things with good writing, art, and fun to watch versus the absolute crap being peddled over here.  But anyone into the anime scene at the time knew the origin of the word, and was 'weeabo' enough to know that it was just the Japanese word for animation.

The entire thing was done by an underground network of geeks until it reached enough critical mass to become mainstream.  I know because I was there.  I partipated and helped run animation clubs before your art school had ever heard of the term.

It. Is. Not. A. Fucking. Style.

[HaemishM]

FINE, let's say MANGA style then.

Which still mostly sucks, especially when it flows from designs by American artists who are weeaboo cunts.