Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Malakili]

I think it boils down to the fact that there is only so much room for a super hero MMO, and CoV/CoH is it until DCU comes out.  We beta tested CO using our squad from CoV/CoH, and at the end of the day the verdict was that it would be better to start up again in the old game than go to a new one that was basically an inferior clone.

I don't know much about DCU, but if it offers better game play and more diversity in the game then it might do ok. 

I think a lot of people went back to CoH/V.  Now, I personally only played that game a short while and found the combat to be BORING as all hell.  To me that is where Champions is far far superior.  Of course as a new game it doesn't have the feature list that CoH/V has, but hopefully that'll increase over time, assuming I still care by then.

[UnSub]

I think it boils down to the fact that there is only so much room for a super hero MMO, and CoV/CoH is it until DCU comes out.  

Why is there room for multiple fantasy MMOs, but only one superhero one? I'm interested to know.

[Khaldun]

I think there's room for more than one...as long as they're significantly different in some important feature set or design. We've discovered that there is really only room for one WoW, after all. It's not genre, it's design, that makes room for more than one.

[DLRiley]

In the series/movies I cannot recall any humanoid taking a direct phaser hit and keep moving.  I guess the borg, but they had personal shields.  For whoever actually plays this game it's got to seem really weird that you need to hit someone more than once with a phaser.

Personally, if I'm not aiming that laser i give two shits. Its only when you ARE aiming weapon of most likely instant doom and the player is still up and running and mostly fine and only dead after several shots to the head is when I call bullshit, bullshit, more bullshit. But meh.

[Malakili]

New Winter Event is on, Attack of the Misfit Toys.

The Attack of the Misfit Toys has arrived! All heroes are requested to report to Millennium City to receive further instructions on the menace that’s been terrorizing charity workers throughout the city.

Crafted travel powers are here! Only the best at their skills will be able to assemble the devices necessary to imbue you with additional powers.

Gadgeteering has received a balancing pass. Due to the large number of changes made to the set, all Gadgeteering users have received a free Retcon.
Glow has been added back to a large number of costume pieces.

[Tannhauser]

In the series/movies I cannot recall any humanoid taking a direct phaser hit and keep moving.  I guess the borg, but they had personal shields.  For whoever actually plays this game it's got to seem really weird that you need to hit someone more than once with a phaser.

Personally, if I'm not aiming that laser i give two shits. Its only when you ARE aiming weapon of most likely instant doom and the player is still up and running and mostly fine and only dead after several shots to the head is when I call bullshit, bullshit, more bullshit. But meh.

How about every time you shoot someone but don't kill them, the animation looks like your phaser blast grazes them. Then, when you take them to 0 hp, you hit them center-mass and disintergrate them. 

[Xurtan]

Forever being unable to shoot something accurately sounds worse to me, personally. Especially at the likely point blank ranges.

[Malakili]

Forever being unable to shoot something accurately sounds worse to me, personally. Especially at the likely point blank ranges.

Its the same conversation as the SWTOR thread really.  You have to do a few hurdles to try and shoehorn fun gameplay into an IP where one shots happen.  In the other KOTOR games they get around it by giving most stuff you fight melee weapons that can block light sabers through some sort of infusion of blah blah blah.  I'm sure you could do something like slap some sort of shield or something on most everything you fight that absorbs phaser shots until it goes down, then you get one shot.

[Typhon]

Either solution (lots of misses, or everyone has a personal shield) is better than hitting something with phaser fire a dozen times before it goes down.

[statisticalfool]

Hey, apparently they've put the character creator (and first fifteen levels) on unlimited free trial. Apparently, the main limitation is that you can only keep two of your finished creations from the character creator before deleting them, but you can upgrade to the full character creator and pay a monthly subscription to get more character creator slots, which doesn't seem like a terrible deal to me.

[March]

Can I delete and re-create as I wish?

[Malakili]

Hey, apparently they've put the character creator (and first fifteen levels) on unlimited free trial. Apparently, the main limitation is that you can only keep two of your finished creations from the character creator before deleting them, but you can upgrade to the full character creator and pay a monthly subscription to get more character creator slots, which doesn't seem like a terrible deal to me.

I wonder if this is a hint of a move towards free to play + cryptic shop model.

[taolurker]

It isn't just the character creation. They are calling it a Champions Online demo (details here).

It's essentially a play for free, with a limit to 2 characters, level 15, and only being able to play the "tutorial" first section "Millennium City udner attack", so yes this is the beginning of a F2P model or at least seems like that to me.

Can I delete and re-create as I wish?

You can keep creating characters and deleting them, but cannot exceed 2.

[Kageru]

I guess their numbers are not that hot.

It sounds like this gets you access to the tutorial area. Have they changed the tutorial area since launch though? It's pretty short and didn't have any power trainers so it would be fairly boring. And no idea why the cap would be level 15 since that zone was trivial about level 4-5.

[Malakili]

I guess their numbers are not that hot.

It sounds like this gets you access to the tutorial area. Have they changed the tutorial area since launch though? It's pretty short and didn't have any power trainers so it would be fairly boring. And no idea why the cap would be level 15 since that zone was trivial about level 4-5.

The tutorial is, as far as I know, the same.  I haven't been in there in a while though, since they added the ability to skip it.

[Slyfeind]

Oh man, if they go F2P with micropayments, I'm totally going back. It's definitely worth a few bucks here and there for fancy bits and pieces, but not $15 a month.

[Numtini]

That just looks like a free trial, not a F2P system.

[statisticalfool]

That just looks like a free trial, not a F2P system.

and a bad free trial at that.

Great if you like the character creator though.

[Slyfeind]

It would be great if it led to a F2P system though. I miss my Sad Clown. I can't seem to recreate him in CoX.

[Malakili]

Great if you like the character creator though.

Considering that it is the best part of the game....

[eldaec]

Its the same conversation as the SWTOR thread really.  You have to do a few hurdles to try and shoehorn fun gameplay into an IP where one shots happen. 

Replace HP with 'luck', animate non-fatal shots as misses.

This is exactly what hollywood does.

[Malakili]

Its the same conversation as the SWTOR thread really.  You have to do a few hurdles to try and shoehorn fun gameplay into an IP where one shots happen. 

Replace HP with 'luck', animate non-fatal shots as misses.

This is exactly what hollywood does.

Yep.  I think its a fair way to handle it.  I can even settle for something like Lord of the Rings Online to be honest. Which is, for those who don't know, HP is called "morale" and when you run out you "retreat."  Hits do show as connecting, but even that minor bit of difference in how it is represented for some reason makes me feel better about it.

[Ratman_tf]

CO should go for free to play with advertisements, like AO. Then I could play it once in a while for free, and never buy anything advertised. 

[Stabs]

Its the same conversation as the SWTOR thread really.  You have to do a few hurdles to try and shoehorn fun gameplay into an IP where one shots happen. 

Replace HP with 'luck', animate non-fatal shots as misses.

This is exactly what hollywood does.

This is actually what hit points originally were in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. From memory the description was something like getting harder to kill through a combination of luck, combat savvy, increased physical toughness and the favour of the gods. There was even a certain death rule in my 1978 DMG that basically said if you put a gun to the head of a 100 hit point character who can't move they die when you pull the trigger.

[Kageru]

There was a variant rule that some groups used (we did) where some amount of points were physical (con * 2 + level?) and caused blood to splatter plus healed slow and the rest was skill. Something you couldn't avoid, such as the gun to the head example, went straight to physical.

The main problem is players expect to see splatter and numbers as feedback for every shot.

[UnSub]

I'm sure we've only discussed this 4 times this year already. 

[WayAbvPar]

Great if you like the character creator though.

Considering that it is the best part of the game....

Yikes. Downloaded it, stared at the character creation screen for 10 minutes, then turned it off. Just didn't interest me in slightest.

[Malakili]

Considering that it is the best part of the game....

Yikes. Downloaded it, stared at the character creation screen for 10 minutes, then turned it off. Just didn't interest me in slightest.

Yeah, if you don't like the idea of designing your own super hero, this game has 0 value.  On the other hand if you do like the idea, the game isn't half bad.  I don't know that there has been another mmo that has been so clear cut in this regard.

[WayAbvPar]

I played it 5 years ago when it was CoH. Everything looked so similar (even down to the font) it just made me tired. I am hoping I get energized enough to at least create a character and look around, but it sure wasn't happening at 2 AM when the download finished. I have never experienced that in a MMOG before.

[Malakili]

Yeah, I didn't play CoH, so I wonder if that contributed to me liking the game more than a lot of people.  I mean, Champions has some major issues, most notably not having enough content, but I think a lot of what I find charming about the game is just old hat to CoH vets.

[Lantyssa]

Yeah, I didn't play CoH, so I wonder if that contributed to me liking the game more than a lot of people.  I mean, Champions has some major issues, most notably not having enough content, but I think a lot of what I find charming about the game is just old hat to CoH vets.

It would make a huge difference.  I think if you went to CoX and tried their character creator you'd also rather play with it than CO's.

[Numtini]

It would make a huge difference.  I think if you went to CoX and tried their character creator you'd also rather play with it than CO's.

That was it more than anything. I can't think of a thing that CO did better than COX. Other than give me a headache with the oversaturated graphics.

[Ingmar]

It would make a huge difference.  I think if you went to CoX and tried their character creator you'd also rather play with it than CO's.

That was it more than anything. I can't think of a thing that CO did better than COX. Other than give me a headache with the oversaturated graphics.

Power set combination was much much more flexible, but that's about it.

[Malakili]

It would make a huge difference.  I think if you went to CoX and tried their character creator you'd also rather play with it than CO's.

That was it more than anything. I can't think of a thing that CO did better than COX. Other than give me a headache with the oversaturated graphics.

I actually do enjoy the graphics in CO, I'll admit.  It does feel comic book like, especially with the outline on.  Though, they "fixed" the outline, after which it kind of looked like crap, so eh.

Anyway though, like Ingmar said, the power customization is fun too.  Frankly, most of the fun I got out of CO was due to thinking of characters (look + powers), sketching them on a piece of paper, and then seeing how close I could make it in game.  I did max one character out, and  played a couple more to the 20s, but its just soul crushing to have to play through the exact same content on every single character. 

[Kageru]

CO's power design was another example that free selection of powers inevitably leads to tank mages. It also requires a fine degree of per power balance which is more challenging than per archetype. With power balancing not being one of CO's strengths.

The only thing CO did better was more advanced character models (CoH needs a refresh badly), more use of 3D components in the hero builder (though a lot of those were ghastly) and more varied travel powers. The character model stances could have been good but they weren't integrated into the animations so it was a bit of a wash.