Dwarf Fortress

[Morat20]

The game is almost complete, just missing a decent interface.  I wonder why no publisher picked it up.  All the game need is 6 moth a decent team and it would turn into a blockbuster.

Because relatively few people will look at it until it does away with an ASCII interface. And he's not moved past an ASCII interface because he wants to concentrate on mechanics. Sort of an chicken-and-egg issue. Compound this with the fact that sim-type games are pretty small niche, and he's got a devoted enough following as is, so he's got no real reason to want to sell it -- he doesn't seem to be out for the money.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, if the game had a Dungeon Keeper-esque interface and graphics to go with the mechanics, it would kick great amounts of ass.  Sim games are niche, yeah, so I wouldn't say that it would be a blockbuster, but it would definitely get a solid following.  I'd certainly buy it.

[Quinton]

The thing that I just fundamentally don't understand is why he insists on the tiny, tiny tiles.  It's only a "text" UI because he's using pc/ascii characters as placeholders and there's already the ability to add tilesets.  If he allowed for 2x/3x sized tiles, it'd give the third party tile making folks a way to provide much nicer art.  If he wanted to go the extra mile, adding an isometric display mode would allow the tile makers to really go to town.

He's got enough of a following that I bet it wouldn't be that hard to get some nicer art from the community if he just put a little bit of effort into things on the engine side.  Likewise, taking a pass on the "UI" (the crazy key selections for menu navigation, etc) would do wonders for the game.

Hell, take a page from blizzard's book.  Lua is fucking trivial to embed in stuff.  If he took a week or two, dropped lua 5.x in, reimplemented the basic UI in lua -- having the core app call up into lua to draw things, get input, etc, he'd be set for having third parties go nuts on the interface without having to release any source code.   Alternatively (and less work), split the UI draw/input code into a separate little library, publish headers for dwarffortressui.dll, and let people replace it.

None of this is rocket science!

[Ironwood]

You guys always make me laugh.  So funny to watch you witter on without actually getting it.

This is his hobby.  He really doesn't give a fuck what you think and, further, he's got no intention of selling it, since it's his baby.

Why don't you all come round to my house.  You can all have a pint and a snort and then tear in to how I've arranged my garage.

 

[Rasix]

I imagine he'd be afraid of any loss of control in regards to direction of the game.  And yah, he's probably doing well enough (for his standards) with whatever pays the bills to avoid ransoming off his baby.

I'd love to see some sort of FFVI quality tileset with a rudimentary mouse driven UI, but I'll settle for playing the upcoming improvements to the game he'll let me have for free.  Hell, I'd pay for them. 

I've been itching to radicalthon another go at a fortress, but I'd rather wait for the next update.  Not like I'm overloaded with available gaming time.

[Modern Angel]

You guys always make me laugh.  So funny to watch you witter on without actually getting it.

This is his hobby.  He really doesn't give a fuck what you think and, further, he's got no intention of selling it, since it's his baby.

Why don't you all come round to my house.  You can all have a pint and a snort and then tear in to how I've arranged my garage.

 

Christ, this. Everyone has completely missed the point on why this game is like it is, why he and his brother are how they are and what the future of this game is. Appreciate it for what it is... or don't. The Adams brothers are probably okay with it either way.

[Rendakor]

A lot of them (myself included) are just frustrated at seeing a game we would LIKE to enjoy, buried deep within an obscure interface and ASCII "graphics".

[Modern Angel]

Get a graphical tileset. I use one because as much as I love DF I need little people to look at. It doesn't detract in any way.

[Rasix]

A lot of them (myself included) are just frustrated at seeing a game we would LIKE to enjoy, buried deep within an obscure interface and ASCII "graphics".

Once you get used to it, you don't even see the matrix anymore.  You just see a cat, another cat, an orc kidnapping a baby, a dwarf getting mauled by a carp...

But yah, Dystopian Rhetoric tileset ftw. Still no donkey graphic though, but I suppose you could always poach that from another set if you were so inclined.

Edit: hey, I think there is a donkey graphic, somehow I was missing some of the graphics.  Nope, no donkey. Hmm.

[nurtsi]

I've been actually thinking about implementing the thing in 3D. I think the grid he uses for the actual fortress is pretty small, 150x150x150 or something if I counted my ASCII correctly.

The presentation in 3D is just a bit more tricky. I think something like the building mode in Sims 2/3 might work. You select a floor (z) that you work with and then cull away all the walls that face away from the camera on that floor. You render none of the floors above the selected z and a few (some fancy trick to figure out when to stop drawing) floors below it with walls facing both ways. I guess the camera would be restricted to looking down, but you could otherwise rotate it freely. I think that could work.

[Ironwood]

I'm waiting for the Metaplace conversion.

 

[LK]

Oooo. Anno: Dwarf Fortress. There's a winning idea right there.

[FatuousTwat]

My biggest problem with this game is that there seems to be no middle ground. It's either really easy, or "Oh shit is that a group of titans? I just fucking started!"

Maybe a way to change the difficulty mid-game would make it more approachable, but I don't think the author really cares about that.

[Yegolev]

No, sometimes you just get fucked.

[Threash]

My biggest problem with this game is that there seems to be no middle ground. It's either really easy, or "Oh shit is that a group of titans? I just fucking started!"

Maybe a way to change the difficulty mid-game would make it more approachable, but I don't think the author really cares about that.

The motto of the game is "losing is fun", your "oh shit titans" moment is exactly the reason to play.

[Ard]

My biggest problem with this game is that there seems to be no middle ground. It's either really easy, or "Oh shit is that a group of titans? I just fucking started!"

Maybe a way to change the difficulty mid-game would make it more approachable, but I don't think the author really cares about that.

From what I understand the difficulty curve is changing with the update that changes how the military works, assuming he ever gets it released.  Sieges might actually become dangerous instead of something you can just pull up the drawbridge and ignore.

[FatuousTwat]

My biggest problem with this game is that there seems to be no middle ground. It's either really easy, or "Oh shit is that a group of titans? I just fucking started!"

Maybe a way to change the difficulty mid-game would make it more approachable, but I don't think the author really cares about that.

The motto of the game is "losing is fun", your "oh shit titans" moment is exactly the reason to play.

It really isn't fun for me to take 30 minutes generating a map, finding a good spot on it, picking what I want to bring and then naming everything, only to be wiped out in 5 minutes.

[Yegolev]

My biggest problem with this game is that there seems to be no middle ground. It's either really easy, or "Oh shit is that a group of titans? I just fucking started!"

Maybe a way to change the difficulty mid-game would make it more approachable, but I don't think the author really cares about that.

The motto of the game is "losing is fun", your "oh shit titans" moment is exactly the reason to play.

It really isn't fun for me to take 30 minutes generating a map, finding a good spot on it, picking what I want to bring and then naming everything, only to be wiped out in 5 minutes.

Why do you hate freedom?

[sidereal]

It really isn't fun for me to take 30 minutes generating a map, finding a good spot on it, picking what I want to bring and then naming everything, only to be wiped out in 5 minutes.

Then you're not in the target market.


(Actually, you shouldn't have to pick what you want each time.  You can save a template that you have no reason to deviate from.  And you shouldn't name anything until you're done scouting for Titans)

[Yegolev]

Also don't make a new map every time.

[Modern Angel]

Guys, I hear there's this game and I'm going to play it the exact opposite of how it's supposed to be played why isn't it fun?

If you do not like:

- Limitless sandbox
- No concrete game goals
- No narrative
- Incredibly opaque controls
- Shitty "graphics"
- The possibility of your game ending any second

then this is not a game for you. Do not pretend it is. If you play it and these irritate you then you've learned a lesson; that lesson should not be "fuck, why isn't this fun?" but rather that this is not a game for you. Insisting that it might be for you if it changed just a teensy bit is like playing TF2 hoping it turns into a RTS.

[FatuousTwat]

I stated what I disliked about the game. I love everything else.

[Ironwood]

Guys, I hear there's this game and I'm going to play it the exact opposite of how it's supposed to be played why isn't it fun?

If you do not like:

- Limitless sandbox
- No concrete game goals
- No narrative
- Incredibly opaque controls
- Shitty "graphics"
- The possibility of your game ending any second

then this is not a game for you. Do not pretend it is. If you play it and these irritate you then you've learned a lesson; that lesson should not be "fuck, why isn't this fun?" but rather that this is not a game for you. Insisting that it might be for you if it changed just a teensy bit is like playing TF2 hoping it turns into a RTS.

I agree entirely and have done so in this thread.

However, both you and I have to realise that some people can still enjoy the game while WISHING that the list above was more suited to them.  Hell, I could do with better controls and graphics myself.

 

[Threash]

Guys, I hear there's this game and I'm going to play it the exact opposite of how it's supposed to be played why isn't it fun?

If you do not like:

- Limitless sandbox
- No concrete game goals
- No narrative
- Incredibly opaque controls
- Shitty "graphics"
- The possibility of your game ending any second

then this is not a game for you. Do not pretend it is. If you play it and these irritate you then you've learned a lesson; that lesson should not be "fuck, why isn't this fun?" but rather that this is not a game for you. Insisting that it might be for you if it changed just a teensy bit is like playing TF2 hoping it turns into a RTS.

I agree entirely and have done so in this thread.

However, both you and I have to realise that some people can still enjoy the game while WISHING that the list above was more suited to them.  Hell, I could do with better controls and graphics myself.

 

Yeah that tileset picture on the last page had me salivating until someone said it wasn't real.

[Lantyssa]

That's why I spliced a font pack and a graphics pack together to at least give the game a decent visual appearance.  The only problem with it is a few dwarves end up with levers in their name.

[lac]

As far as dwarfs go, that's pretty cool.

[Soulflame]

I don't mind any of the above list, other than the controls.  Those are some fucked up controls, and this from someone who's played nethack extensively.

[Yegolev]

I don't mind any of the above list, other than the controls.  Those are some fucked up controls, and this from someone who's played nethack extensively.

I feel a strong urge to agree with you completely.  I don't give a flying shit about the graphics, but the controls are sadistic.

[FatuousTwat]

Anyone remember how to do the stack-every-stone-in-the-fortress-on-one-square trick?


Edit: Ah, just found it, you have to designate a dump zone, rather than a stockpile(under quantum stockpiles).

[Rasix]

Anyone remember how to do the stack-every-stone-in-the-fortress-on-one-square trick?


Edit: Ah, just found it, you have to designate a dump zone, rather than a stockpile(under quantum stockpiles).

Yah, using a dump for stone is a near necessity. Otherwise you end up with your stockpiles cluttered with stone instead of what you want stored there.

[Lantyssa]

I build huge stone store rooms in the dirt layers.  Means I don't have to junk and unjunk everything by hand.

[FatuousTwat]

d - b - d = area select dump (so you don't have to do every piece by hand), and d - b - c = turn off forbid for an area (so you don't have to go through the pile and unforbid everything).

[sidereal]

I prefer to create catapults and let dwarves train on them all day.  There's a bug/feature where if the fired stone lands on a z-level below the catapult, it disappears.  So you work through all of your stone and get a bunch of expert siege operators to boot.

[Samwise]

Disposing of waste by catapulting it off the side of the mountain?   

[FatuousTwat]

My fortress is in a tantrum spiral, and my sheriff is the lead instigator. I think he has a sentence of over 400 days in prison.