Guitar Hero 3: The Boss Matches Suck, the Rest Rocks

[Valmorian]

I am glad it is there for people who don't wish to play guitar, but seriously, after a certain amount of invested time, it turns into wasted time cause you really could have learned that crap on guitar.

If learning to play an instrument was as fun as hopping on Guitar Hero, I'm sure I'd be doing it.  I've made several abortive attempts to learn keyboard, but it's just dull dull dull stuff when you're a novice.  Being a novice at Guitar Hero, though, you still get to feel like you're playing a song.

[stray]

It should be more exciting when you're a novice actually! Getting giddy over just making the simplest of sounds is how it starts out. Then moving on from there and thinking you're hot shit with simple songs. Etc.. If you don't have that, then it's probably not meant for you. Either that, or you should try another instrument.

[Valmorian]

It should be more exciting when you're a novice actually! Getting giddy over just making the simplest of sounds is how it starts out. Then moving on from there and thinking you're hot shit with simple songs. Etc.. If you don't have that, then it's probably not meant for you. Either that, or you should try another instrument.

Sorry, but playing "twinkle, twinkle, little star" doesn't fill me with excitement, no matter what instrument I'm playing it on.

[Sky]

Sorry, but playing "twinkle, twinkle, little star" doesn't fill me with excitement, no matter what instrument I'm playing it on.

You're doing it wrong.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

It should be more exciting when you're a novice actually! Getting giddy over just making the simplest of sounds is how it starts out. Then moving on from there and thinking you're hot shit with simple songs. Etc.. If you don't have that, then it's probably not meant for you. Either that, or you should try another instrument.

Sorry, but playing "twinkle, twinkle, little star" doesn't fill me with excitement, no matter what instrument I'm playing it on.

Wow, it just sounds like you have very little dedication to playing an instrument, so in that case GH really has filled that spot. Generally speaking though, I think  that if there is any interest in guitar beyond just playing it on GH then it is wise to move on to learning how to play an actual instrument. I think it is kinda neat that GH can act as a replacement for having a way to interact with music in a very innovative and friendly way, but I  also think that it is sort of silly in its own way.

I guess that can be said for Bemani games as well, (although I don't consider GH Bemani ) They kind of emulate doing something in that can be tried in REAL LIFE. This isn't like flying a plane or street racing or joining the army and shooting fools. It is just playing guitar. It is accessible to everyone, just like dancing and singing and playing drums, whatever. (with the exception that getting into drum playing can be expensive)

I think that excessive amounts of time with something that is virtual as opposed to actual, when the real thing is completely within your grasp, is kinda silly.

[schild]

I'm a gamer, not a musician. Guitar Hero keeps score. Real Guitar may ALLOW me to score, but starfucking isn't my bag.

Playing real guitar isn't accessible to anyone btw. It might be to me, but neg. Don't care.

[Valmorian]

Wow, it just sounds like you have very little dedication to playing an instrument, so in that case GH really has filled that spot. Generally speaking though, I think  that if there is any interest in guitar beyond just playing it on GH then it is wise to move on to learning how to play an actual instrument.

I play games to have fun.  I have also played racing games, but that doesn't mean it would be wise for me to go on and become a race car driver no matter how much fun I have driving in a game.  I find guitar hero to be fun, but I don't find learning a real musical instrument to be that much fun.  That doesn't say anything about my dedication to playing an instrument, it says something about what I find to be fun. 

How about Harvest Moon?  Is it silly to play that when you can just go out and learn how to farm in real life?  How about Phoenix Wright?  Because despite your claim: "This isn't like flying a plane or street racing or joining the army and shooting fools. It is just playing guitar. It is accessible to everyone, just like dancing and singing and playing drums, whatever. (with the exception that getting into drum playing can be expensive) "  All those things ARE accessible, they just require more "dedication" than you're willing to put forth (Right?  That's what you imply with the GH example..)

I think that excessive amounts of time with something that is virtual as opposed to actual, when the real thing is completely within your grasp, is kinda silly.

Like virtually all entertainment?  Why watch dramas when you can live life?  Why read science fiction when you can learn real science? 

Enjoying entertainment isn't silly, it's just what you do for fun. 

[Sky]

Ok. Maybe I was too subtle. If you're not having fun learning an instrument, if you're learning tripe like 'twinkle little star' YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Do you think I learned twinkle? Do you think Slash did? Do you think Page did? First song I learned was Breaking the Law by Judas Priest.

The point is that the time it takes to learn songs on expert in GH, you might as well learn the real thing, because that translates to so much more. Your Harvest Moon example is reaching into the stupid to make a bad point. Unless you've figured out how to run a farm in a half hour a day. You can pick up an instrument whenever you have a little free time and jam. Also, I'm willing to learn how to fly a plane if you can show me how I can just pick up a plane at a pawn shop and take it for a spin tonight. Now excuse me while I go try to erase the bad logic of your post from my mind.

And schild, playing guitar is accessible to anyone, no idea why you think it's not.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Wow, it just sounds like you have very little dedication to playing an instrument, so in that case GH really has filled that spot. Generally speaking though, I think  that if there is any interest in guitar beyond just playing it on GH then it is wise to move on to learning how to play an actual instrument.

I play games to have fun.  I have also played racing games, but that doesn't mean it would be wise for me to go on and become a race car driver no matter how much fun I have driving in a game.  I find guitar hero to be fun, but I don't find learning a real musical instrument to be that much fun.  That doesn't say anything about my dedication to playing an instrument, it says something about what I find to be fun. 

How about Harvest Moon?  Is it silly to play that when you can just go out and learn how to farm in real life?  How about Phoenix Wright?  Because despite your claim: "This isn't like flying a plane or street racing or joining the army and shooting fools. It is just playing guitar. It is accessible to everyone, just like dancing and singing and playing drums, whatever. (with the exception that getting into drum playing can be expensive) "  All those things ARE accessible, they just require more "dedication" than you're willing to put forth (Right?  That's what you imply with the GH example..)

I think that excessive amounts of time with something that is virtual as opposed to actual, when the real thing is completely within your grasp, is kinda silly.

Like virtually all entertainment?  Why watch dramas when you can live life?  Why read science fiction when you can learn real science? 

Enjoying entertainment isn't silly, it's just what you do for fun. 

I may have not been as clear as I thought I was. Playing Guitar Hero and Drum Mania and DDR, any games that incorporate real movements and theory and technique, these are things that are intruding in accessible real life activities. I already addressed racing games, FPS and other games, none of those are anything like  they are in real life with the exception of racing sims with an actual car cockpit Etc. Playing guitar, or dancing or singing or playing drums...Al these things are accessible activities that build REAL LIFE SKILLS.

I am okay with people who play that have no interest in learning to play an instrument or dance or sing or drum. But really, when you are going through the motions, learning guitar rhythm and pacing, theory on how guitars work and how they work in a band, how to drum and actually sing or dance, if you really would rather build virtual skills, have virtual chops Etc, it just seems ass backwards to me.

It is not a problem if you play on a casual level, IE me and Schild, (whom is good at GH but plays very seldom, lke only when there is get togethers) I am talking about people who need to beat Jordan or anyone who is legitimately practicing. It is a waste of time in my opinion, cause it is close enough to real life that it becomes a cheap knockoff of real life experiences.

Fact is no one gives two fucks about how good anyone is at GH or DDR or any type of similar game for that matter, but good guitar playing or dancing or singing. They are legitimate skills. People respect and acknowledge that.

By all means, play and enjoy yourself, entertain yourself, cause that is what it is, entertainment. But once entertainment tries to step in and mimic real life activities that I can safely, experience for myself, without danger to me in any physical or mental form, then it is a waste of time to me. I live to experience things that I safely can, not to fucking pretend to.

Don't bring books or movies or valid forms of imaginative entertainment into this. I can't race futuristic machines at break neck speeds, so I play F-Zero, I can't become a super future soldier and save the planet from Locust invasion, I play Gears of War. I can't go one some great tip to space and experience an amazing space opera, so I play Mass Effect.  I can't start a farm and have absolutely no knowledge of how to or desire to do so, and Harvest Moon surely wont show me how or give me a similar experience. 

 

Schild: You can learn anything you want, you choose not too. We don't count here cause we never practice GH. And the amount of time it takes us to throughly  kick that game to shit is insignificant at best. I just want to cut out unecessary time wasting when it comes to games and GH gives that to me in spades.

[stray]

It should be more exciting when you're a novice actually! Getting giddy over just making the simplest of sounds is how it starts out. Then moving on from there and thinking you're hot shit with simple songs. Etc.. If you don't have that, then it's probably not meant for you. Either that, or you should try another instrument.

Sorry, but playing "twinkle, twinkle, little star" doesn't fill me with excitement, no matter what instrument I'm playing it on.

Doesn't have to be twinkle, twinkle... Umm.. Learn a basic minor and basic chord shape, put it on organ, then shoot for Knockin on Heaven's Door. Easy song. Or alternatively, Highway to Hell

[caladein]

I'm a gamer, not a musician. Guitar Hero keeps score. Real Guitar may ALLOW me to score, but starfucking isn't my bag.

RB is a bit different because I do know how to sing, and as much as I would like to cover Dani California, I am not Anthony Kiedis.

[Valmorian]

Fact is no one gives two fucks about how good anyone is at GH or DDR or any type of similar game for that matter, but good guitar playing or dancing or singing. They are legitimate skills. People respect and acknowledge that.

See, I couldn't care less about whether someone respects and acknowledges my ability in a video game, and it's certainly not a good reason in my mind to learn any skill.  "Legitimacy" isn't a reason I choose to do something I enjoy.

By all means, play and enjoy yourself, entertain yourself, cause that is what it is, entertainment. But once entertainment tries to step in and mimic real life activities that I can safely, experience for myself, without danger to me in any physical or mental form, then it is a waste of time to me. I live to experience things that I safely can, not to fucking pretend to.

Look, if you enjoy something, it's entertainment. Whether you consider it "real enough" or not is irrelevant.  There are people who spend equally insane amounts of time getting good at chess, darts, and the high jump.  Are those "legitimate"?  Why, and more importantly, why should anyone care?

Don't bring books or movies or valid forms of imaginative entertainment into this. I can't race futuristic machines at break neck speeds, so I play F-Zero, I can't become a super future soldier and save the planet from Locust invasion, I play Gears of War. I can't go one some great tip to space and experience an amazing space opera, so I play Mass Effect.  I can't start a farm and have absolutely no knowledge of how to or desire to do so, and Harvest Moon surely wont show me how or give me a similar experience. 

How ANYONE spends their leisure time is valuable to them.  Just because you think it's silly doesn't make it so.  And all those imaginative entertainments?  They're time wasters in the same way guitar hero is.  If someone finds playing guitar hero fun, but doesn't find learning a musical instrument fun, that doesn't make the activity silly or deluded any more than playing any of those other games are. 

Personally, I DON'T sit there and practice song after song on GH with the hopes of beating it on expert.  Hell, I can't even finish a song on hard yet.  But I shake my head at the smug self-righteousness I see people level at those who do.  Having a hobby and being obsessed with it isn't different just because that hobby has a very rough approximation to something YOU deem as having more "worth".

Seriously, there's no difference between the GH freak who needs to master every song on expert and any other hardcore gamer who needs to beat a video game into complete submission.

[bhodi]

Seriously, there's no difference between the GH freak who needs to master every song on expert and any other hardcore gamer who needs to beat a video game into complete submission.

I remember that the comment for the guitar you win by 5starring all of expert in GH2 was something like "This guitar will compensate for you having no friends."

[CaptainNapkin]

Quick noob question. This is the first time I've played any of the GH's.
Started my career, earned some cash, went to the shop where I saw a Killer B I just had to have. So I bought it but can't equip or play it.

Do you have to unlock Basses in general to be able to play them? I heard it mention about bass/guitar in battle or co-op mode or something like that. Are those modes the only way to play a bass?

[bhodi]

Basses are only in multiplayer or practice mode.

It's guitar hero, not bass hero ;)

[CaptainNapkin]

Bah... well, they are "bass guitars" technically, but yeah I get your point... Lars just looks like he needs a bass hangin' below his knee.

Cool though, thanks for the quick answer.

[cmlancas]

To get this thread more on topic to the game, I went out and purchased it for the ps2 yesterday because I was dying to play it and haven't bought my next-gen console yet.

Thoughts: The boss matches are fucking stupid. I get lucky and get two whammies to beat Slash on hard, otherwise he wipes the floor with me; What the fuck is with the ramped up difficulty on Hard once you hit the Slipknot song? This song is harder than most of the expert I've played (I'm beating the game on hard to unlock songs then going back in quickplay and playing songs I like on expert such as When You Were Young/Paint it Black/Sunshine of Your Love) and I've failed the beginning 3x after just cruising through most other songs. What's up with that?!

Overall, very fun though. Song selection is way better than GHII and the venues aren't nearly as kitchy.

Oh, another minor gripe: When naming things and whatnot, the cursor doesn't start on _, so when I went to name my band, I typed in The Pants Party with the Y as the last letter when I hit start, but it came out as The Pants Part because I thought The Pants Partya looked funky. :) (I'm sure you can change the name in options, I'm just lazy).


If any of ya'll really like the guitar type games and haven't added this to your library yet, you are missing out. Possibly not Great Success due to boss battles, but there are definitely some delicious slices of cake throughout.

[Azazel]

Hammer. You're a fighting game fanatic. You could use that time more productively training Muay Thai and Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. (yes, at home, yes, even alone). And that would be a fuckload of a lot more productive and potentially useful than being a god at SF/SSB.

Anyway, is there any GH1 or 2 stuff available as DLC for GH3 players? What about the extra tracks for GH2? Are they compatable with GH3 in any way?

[Sky]

Ok. I'm officially at buyer's remorse now. I'm going to try to finish the game at easy and maybe run through medium. But the two higher levels are just stupid.

This is definitely a console gamer's game, not a musician's. Spent some time trying to play songs I KNOW ON GUITAR on hard or expert, slowed down. The controller fought me the entire way.

Easy was kind of fun. I think the rest of the game sucks, the cover bands aren't all that great and the controls suck.

I'd offer my copy up to f13 on the cheap, but shipping would be a bitch, eh? Lost my receipt, so I have to suck this fucker up, I guess. Pissed.

[cmlancas]

For a true musician, wouldn't you kinda have to suspend your disbelief for the guitar a little bit? I'd liken it to a swordsman getting upset because a MMO lets him whack-a-foozle fifty times with a sharp rapier instead of a one hit kill.

I understand it might be hard, but to condemn a video game because it doesn't represent a true guitar seems like a fallacy.

I refer to this webcomic! http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070509

[Sky]

Well, yeah. That's the problem. I'm then left with a shitty console game with cool music. That cost me a fucking bundle. Could've bought two pc games for that price.

[Selby]

For a true musician, wouldn't you kinda have to suspend your disbelief for the guitar a little bit?

Yes.  I still get annoyed when I play Raining Blood due to constantly trying to play the actual guitar version and not the game.  It's a console game first and foremost, I learned that the hard way on the 1st one.  But I knew what I was getting into, so no regrets and it still entertains me.

[stray]

Ok. I'm officially at buyer's remorse now.

Lol, you should have done your research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlnP-LJBzUc

[Samwise]

You know, the first time I played Guitar Hero at a friend's house I ended up ripping through the entire game on Medium in a couple of sittings, and I've always assumed that I was able to skip Easy because of the moderate guitar-playing ability that I brought to the table.  That theory is completely shot to hell now.

[DeathInABottle]

This is definitely a console gamer's game, not a musician's. Spent some time trying to play songs I KNOW ON GUITAR on hard or expert, slowed down. The controller fought me the entire way.

Maybe it's not a guitarist's game necessarily, but I think that having some basic musical training helps immensely with timing.  Knowing the difference between triplets and eighth notes and being able to recognize them coming at you on the screen makes a big difference in my game.  My friend and I were co-op careering "One" on hard, and he was having a really hard time with the sextuplets in the latter half of the song because he couldn't figure out how many notes there were.

[Stephen Zepp]

I'm a gamer, not a musician. Guitar Hero keeps score. Real Guitar may ALLOW me to score, but starfucking isn't my bag.

RB is a bit different because I do know how to sing, and as much as I would like to cover Dani California, I am not Anthony Kiedis.

Heheh...ironic that Dani California is the one song I'll even step up to the mike on--I can't sing at all, but somehow that song vibes for me.

[Sky]

Lol, you should have done your research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlnP-LJBzUc

No shit! That's pretty much how it went!

Also, Tom Petty should sue the living fuck out of RHCP for Dani California.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WdTYcnUBADw

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Azaezel: I have done a lot of BJJ, Muy Thai, Boxing and Wrestling. I still grapple... So I have done more than my share of actual fighting. But you're missing the point. Fighting games are nothing at all in any way like actual fighting. Other than some technical, meta game/ mind game similarities, (high and lows, submission loops, strategic positioning, etc) There is very little that is true to real life in execution. The point I am making about guitar hero is that sometimes playing a song in guitar hero is actually the same or just as hard as playing it in real life. There is a lot more in common with GH and real guitar than people give it credit for, and although that is pretty neat, I think that way too much time with GH could be used learning a real instrument. Now this is just my opinion, you guys can do whatever  you want, but I really think that games like GH, DDR, and the drumming in RB are too close to their real life counterparts to be worth investing any serious amount of time into. Although Gh doesn't have all the intricate technique found in actual guitar playing, there are very basic similarities that are a little too close to the actual thing in my opinion. It really is in the timing and pacing and movements. Guitar is harder to learn, but I hate the idea that one can put in a little more effort and actually learn an instrument.

GH actually requires  very similar rhythm and timing of actual guitar playing, while other games genres, are absolutely nothing like their real life counterparts. 


It is really weird cause I think that actual guitar playing makes GH way too easy for me. I can thrash the crap out of the game on expert with the exception of a few songs. My hands  just seem more coordinated and it makes it simple for me to look at that screen and press any combination of 5 buttons. I wonder if guitar Pro made this happen cause I always play straight off my screen on my computer with teh guitar on the program muted so I can play my guitar over the GP music. that is just fun. For any actual guitar players that don't have anyone to play with very often, guitar Pro is just great. It is easy to find Tab for it and it can be upgraded to play good sound files as opposed to midi. Very sexy. Too easy to learn guitar with programs as great as that around.

[squirrel]

Well, yeah. That's the problem. I'm then left with a shitty console game with cool music. That cost me a fucking bundle. Could've bought two pc games for that price.

Well dude I'm not really clear on what your complaint is to be honest. I own 3 guns, a Ruger .270 International, a Savage 7 mm and a Heckler Kosch 9 mm pistol (I'm a Canadian btw, so save the politics if you are thinking it - not you Sky - the royal You).

Point being, I don't criticize shooters that may not really replicate what a .556 rifle or a 9mm handgun shoot like. I accept, as I do for films, that some realism is sacrificed at the altar of entertainment.

Now I don't play guitar, wish I did. But I know GH I - III are not simulations - they're approximations. They're rhythm games with a guitar shaped controller, and they're fucking awesome at that. Don't think of them as 'guitar' games, think of them as 'rhythm' or 'music' games. They're really good - well worth your $50 - as long as you realize it's not a guitar simulation. Just like shooting. You get used to it. And after that you can love it.

[schild]

Squirrel, the idea of you having guns makes me pee my pants. Only a little though. Do you keep them near the liquor?

[squirrel]

Squirrel, the idea of you having guns makes me pee my pants. Only a little though. Do you keep them near the liquor?

Heh yeah actually - the gun case is right beside the liquor cabinet. But I keep the ammo locked up downstairs. So inadvertent mayhem is pretty limited in scope. That said, on a long weekend with a rental truck whiskey and guns is a traditional canadian pass-time.

[Valmorian]

Now this is just my opinion, you guys can do whatever  you want, but I really think that games like GH, DDR, and the drumming in RB are too close to their real life counterparts to be worth investing any serious amount of time into.

See, here's where I don't follow you.  Investing time into something you find fun is the same regardless of how "close" it is to something else.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Now this is just my opinion, you guys can do whatever  you want, but I really think that games like GH, DDR, and the drumming in RB are too close to their real life counterparts to be worth investing any serious amount of time into.

See, here's where I don't follow you.  Investing time into something you find fun is the same regardless of how "close" it is to something else.

Again this is a matter of personal taste. I play both real guitar and GH and every time I play GH I feel like it is time better spent playing actual guitar. I sure this is just me, but like I said it make me feel like I am wasting time if I play it for anything more than like a half an hour, and other games never make me feel that way.

[cmlancas]

Fun is fun. Unfortunately, fun is fun for different people. Tons of threads on f13 nowadays need a huge slathering of YMMV instead of mindless banter.

I started co-op yesterday with a friend and was pleasantly surprised at the beginning song set (compared to solo play) and I was delighted to discover that I unlocked Sabotage. 

[Sky]

Don't think of them as 'guitar' games, think of them as 'rhythm' or 'music' games. They're really good - well worth your $50 - as long as you realize it's not a guitar simulation.

No, I get it. I just don't like it. If I was only out $50, I wouldn't bitch nearly this much, but this and the orange box blew my entire gaming budget for the year, and I don't really like either. I'm tired of gaming for the year.