Australia Gets PS3 price cut for new Crippled PS3s!

[Yegolev]

Rayman Raving Rabbids.

Granted. Minigame collection.

Interesting card you played there.  I haven't tried this one, but I have to assume there's not much waggling that isn't "waggle up-down = A button, waggle left-right = B button"?  HELLO TWILIGHT PRINCESS.

[schild]

You know what's funny, no one rags on the Wii for not giving REGULAR controls as an option. (INSERT ZELDA HERE)

Yet Lair got face raped.

Just pointing that out.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Yeah, that is simple though. Lair sucks all together, it is hard to play, the control is poorly implemented.  While Zelda's is only questionable problem is preference on control input. It plays just fine, you just don't like it. 

[schild]

It plays just fine, you just don't like it.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

There's no alternative.

It's Lair. The exact same fucking sticking point everyone had with Lair. Quality of game was not something I mentioned at ALL.

Now, the Gamecube version release was a judgement error. Reversing the world made the world not make sense. I fear that only works with 2D titles.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I played both and the GC one plays just fine with a reversed world. Anyway, people did have a problem with lair's control. It was forced AND it sucked. I am pointing out that Zelda's control was forced, which is sucky, but the controls did not suck, they were implemented correctly for what they are. You just don't like them. Not liking something and something actually being poorly made are 2 different things. Lair contols = poorly implemented | Zelda controls = Schild no likey

[Yegolev]

They mirrored the Wii version?  The entire game?  That's... weird.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

They did that cause int he Wii version Link was right handed, but he is left handed in every other game, so they just flipped the whole thing.

[schild]

Dude, it doesn't matter if schild likeyed or not.

THE OPTION WASN'T THERE.

Fuck. You are not retarded. Don't be retarded.

[Velorath]

Dude, it doesn't matter if schild likeyed or not.

THE OPTION WASN'T THERE.

Fuck. You are not retarded. Don't be retarded.

There was an option.  It was buying the GC version.  As I recall, you managed to find reasons for hating that one too.

[schild]

There was an option.  It was buying the GC version.  As I recall, you managed to find reasons for hating that one too.

Reversing the world wasn't exactly the most elegant of solutions. Let's just say - Upside Down castles work better. Adding controls for the classic controller would have taken, what, 1 day of dev time?

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Ha, man Schild, the second some one doesn't share your views on a game you tell them they are retarded. What a douche.

[schild]

Ha, man Schild, the second some one doesn't share your views on a game you tell them they are retarded. What a douche.

I'm not saying Zelda was bad. Christ. How many times do I have to say it:

The option wasn't there. I did not enjoy the waggle. Reversing the world was a weak and completely unsuccessful way to do things. Also, the lack of widescreen/480p on the Gamecube version was just inexcusable.

I called you retarded because your ability to read seems to have died. Not because you liked the game.

[Yegolev]

They did that cause int he Wii version Link was right handed, but he is left handed in every other game, so they just flipped the whole thing.

Oh, I know why they did it (not at all in the same vein as an upside-down castle), but it's still weird.  Smells very "last minute".  Right-handed Link can bite my ass.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I don't think you said Zelda was bad, although you have said Zelda was bad on more than one occasion so quit being "retarded." You said Zelda didn't get crap for its controls and Lair did, and I said, with good cause. Lairs controls are bad, as in they suck. They are poorly implemented AND you don't have an option to use alternate controls. Zelda's controls are good. They work. but you don't have an alternate option. That is why Lair gets shit and Zelda does not.

[schild]

This isn't about Zelda being bad though. You know that. This is about the controls. And you're telling me their good. While I'm telling you flat out that they're not. Your tolerance of shoehorned controls aside and Lair's quality AS A GAME aside, since it's irrelevant - every single title should offer to turn off motion. It's that simple. It's simply not something that would ruin a break a game. It would however make lots of games about 50x better. Basically, I'm a fan of equal opportunity shitting. The best part of it is that a lot of my hatred for Nintendo comes from not giving me the option. And the majority of beef with Lair was Not giving people the option. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Simple solutions for simple problems.

[Roac]

Every single non-Wii game sucks ass because they lack the option to include motion control.



You don't like waggle - at all.  You've said that on numerous occations.  Your oppinion on Zelda's controls are worthless.  It's like asking Coulter to comment on Dems.  Everyone knows what your take is, and it doesn't matter one bit what's actually being discussed because you can't see past the red rage you throw into every Wii post.

Anyway, the world-flipping was brilliant.  It's EXTREMELY cost-effective, and the devs knew that people buying Zelda would only have just gotten their Wii, and would want waggle just to try it out.  Tacked-on or not, it was going to be novel at the time and that would make up for anything but gross incompetance (like, say, Silver Surfer is).  Problem with waggle is that your right-handed players are going to have issues with a left-handed swordsman.  Yes, it probably would have been better if they had redesigned the whole damn thing.  It also would've been a disaster decision.

[Mrbloodworth]

I still play PS1 games on my PS2.

Me too, the removal of it makes me less inclined to get a PS3, but isn't this Europe only? are am i reading this wrong?

It's only been officially launched in Europe & Convict-land, but it's already showing up in the stock-control & order systems for most US retailers iirc.

So i had better get one with BC soon is what you are telling me.

[HaemishM]

I will agree with schild on one thing. Some (not all) titles should have the option to not use motion control. I say that as a huge proponent of motion controls. Some already do, such as the Dragonball Z game (let you use a classic or GC controller) and the upcoming Fire Emblem game. But some kinds, especially the ones that just tacked motion controls onto the game (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Spider-Man 3) should give you the option to not use it. Hell, even though it was a damn good game, the Prince of Persia game shouldn't have used motion controls because all the waggle was could have been easily mapped to buttons.

I'm all for games giving players options on how to play them. I'd love to see the Wii games that use motion like Prince of Persia did (map button presses to waggles) give players the option to map their own motion controls for actions. In short, don't waste the waggle if it's not needed.

[schild]

Waggle wasn't bad for Trauma Center. Worked better with a stylus though. Mouse would be ideal for any trauma center though probably.

You don't like waggle - at all.  You've said that on numerous occations.  Your oppinion on Zelda's controls are worthless.

Eh? I buy hundreds of games. I influence the purchases of other people. There's an entire section of the industry exactly like me. Adding the option for regular controls solves a whole slew of issues I have.

[Roac]

Waggle is just another form of interface, good or bad based on how effectively it works for what you're trying to do.  Obstensibly, it can add a small measure of realism.  Overused it'll tear your joints to pieces.  But hey, we've had that same problem with extreme button mashing in some controller games.  Bad controls are bad controls, whether the device used is a Wiimote, Dualshock, or keyboard+mouse.  They can all be fucked up, and they can all be used well.  

[Velorath]

I still play PS1 games on my PS2.

Me too, the removal of it makes me less inclined to get a PS3, but isn't this Europe only? are am i reading this wrong?

It's only been officially launched in Europe & Convict-land, but it's already showing up in the stock-control & order systems for most US retailers iirc.

So i had better get one with BC soon is what you are telling me.

No, that's what Sony is telling you.  Just like how they were telling us in the U.S. when they dropped the price of the 60GB to hurry up and buy one while supplies last, lest we be stuck with the more expensive 80GB model with software-based BC.

[Yegolev]

Problem with waggle is that your right-handed players are going to have issues with a left-handed swordsman.  Yes, it probably would have been better if they had redesigned the whole damn thing.  It also would've been a disaster decision.

I agree, don't agree, and agree.  I think the mirroring was a great idea as far as solving the problem the programmers were presented.  I think lots of people would have likely had trouble with the idea of using a sword in their left hand  but in practice you have to waggle both hands so I think it would not have mattered a great deal when the rubber met the road.  The decision, I think, was made to appeal to the lowest common denominator (right-handers).  You can probably guess what I think about that.

My problems with Twilight Princess don't have much to do with the controls, since I knew it was a GC port and didn't really think it would mimic my movements during swordplay... although I know a couple of people who thought it would.  There's a line between using waggle because it's there (when button-presses would be more efficient) and using it because it makes sense.  Please see my numerous, complaint-filled posts about DS games.

Bad controls are bad controls, this much we can all agree on.  I've endured some asstastic button mappings, and don't get me started on analog-stick-Y-axis-inversion.

[Azazel]

I'll toss out a couple of tidbits for consideration when looking at the PS3.

Firstly, it's region-free; I don't know how this affects the PAL/NTSC thing, honestly, due to not importing one.

Secondly, it does not supprt DualShock 1/2 controllers, nor by extension any other PS2 peripheral due to lack of compatible ports, so unless someone has manufactured a PS3-compatible (or USB perhaps) guitar then I don't see how it would work on a PS3.  For anything else, though, the BC is unmatched... mostly because the old games look better than they did on their primary systems.  The virtual memory cards are something you get used to very quickly, as well.

Region-free is fine for games. The PS3 (and PS2, for that matter) is quite capable of outputting PAL, PAL60, NTSC and so forth. The real issue becomes the Blu-Ray movies, since those are region-locked like DVDs before them. Ergo, if I buy a PS3 from the US, or HK, it'll be locked to a different region for movies. Since I'd be paying a premium for the Blu-Ray component of the machine, the idea of nerfing myself from the beginning on the format isn't an ideal situation. This is true, even allowing for the fact that I don't care about Blu-Ray movies as a format. Let's face it, if you get a PS3, you'll try out one or two Blu-Ray films if only to see what all the big fuss is about.

Guitar-wise, I was under the impression that someone had already released a PS2>PS3 adaptor for the peripherals, the guitars in particular?

[OcellotJenkins]

I buy hundreds of games. I influence the purchases of other people.

You sure do.  I can almost always bank on the fact that if you like something I will not like it (and vice versa), as we have the EXACT opposite taste in just about everything.  It saves me a considerable amount of money, thanks.

On the subject of third party Nintendo games, quite frankly the Wii doesn't need them.  The console will stand perfectly fine on it's on first party line-up. There are enough "casual" gamers out there with plenty of disposable income to spend on any game with Mario, Zelda, or Metroid in the title and they will be perfectly happy.  The price certainly could be a factor with some demographics, but I think much of the Wii's success has to do with people just having fun with it in a way that you "hardcore" types don't.  Call them slobbering retards if you like though.

[cmlancas]

I was strolling through my local EBStop today while my girlfriend was out shopping for linens for the bedroom and I overheard a guy working the register stating that EBStop would be carrying 40GB PS3s later in the year with the same features minus the HD space.


I wanted to be an ass and tell him he was wrong, but I refrained. I suppose there will just be quite a few angry customers when they can't pop in GHII or (insert still-popular PS2 title here) and play it.

[Triforcer]

I'd just like to say that the business plan of "Buy our product NOW, because later versions will be worse and you don't want to get stuck with that POS" is a watershed moment in the history of economics, right up there with Cartman's amusement park that he didn't allow people into.

[cmlancas]

You sure do.  I can almost always bank on the fact that if you like something I will not like it (and vice versa), as we have the EXACT opposite taste in just about everything.  It saves me a considerable amount of money, thanks.

On the subject of third party Nintendo games, quite frankly the Wii doesn't need them.  The console will stand perfectly fine on it's on first party line-up. There are enough "casual" gamers out there with plenty of disposable income to spend on any game with Mario, Zelda, or Metroid in the title and they will be perfectly happy.  The price certainly could be a factor with some demographics, but I think much of the Wii's success has to do with people just having fun with it in a way that you "hardcore" types don't.  Call them slobbering retards if you like though.

I would argue that any of those "tier one" games could possibly sell better on another system. Say... the 360 for example? Waggle was fun for five minutes.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

OcellotJenkins: Man I agree with you here in some areas. (Although I do share the same love for some games as Schild, A majority of our opinions on games may differ) I think Nintendo will do okay with the Wii simply because of the casual crowd. What really gets me, and I am way guilty of this, is the whole "casual crowd is retarded" bullshit. I see that go around more and more often and as uninformed and silly as the casual crowd is, there is almost nothing as annoying and lame as a "hardcore gamer". Unfortunately, it seems like what is considered a hardcore gamer is fucking changing radically and I don't consider myself hardcore at all anymore. To be honest a majority of the behavior shown by the gaming crowd is kinda off putting and I am kinda sick of it. I want to enjoy games again and not care about silly shit like whether or not a game is in true Hd blah blah... Is the game fun, does it take some sort of skill? Are other people playing it? That is all I care about. The whole "casual gamers are going to the Wii makes me laugh cause I see the scrubbiest, lamest, retarded "hardcore gamers" with almost no knowledge about games, playing games or the game industry kinda all playing the 360 and ps3 right now. Nothing says casual like the common xbl/psn scrub in my opinion.

[cmlancas]

I think you should've referenced Katamari in your post someplace, but I definitely agree.

You want a fun game? Original Ice Hockey on NES. Go play some of that against a friend and tell me which is more fun -- that, or NHL '07.

[Azazel]

You know what's funny, no one rags on the Wii for not giving REGULAR controls as an option. (INSERT ZELDA HERE)

Just pointing that out.

erm. I've been doing that all along. I've even said that's why I won't give 90% of the software available on it a first look, let alone a second...

[UnSub]

I sure as hell wouldn't ship an xbox360 considering how many people end up with faults. Could you imagine having to send that shit back to the states to get it fixed/replaced?

Yeah, that'd be the fear of it.

PAL / NTSC isn't a problem - most TVs sold in Austrlaia can cope with either mode. Don't know if I'd have issues with the games... I haven't looked into it. I'd be playing on a HD TV, so that probably () wouldn't be an issue.

Regardless - looks like I'm stuck hoping for an Xmas price drop if I want an Xbox 360 this year.

[Azazel]

My concern is RROD. When they get that shit sorted out, we'll talk.

[UnSub]

Man, third party games on Nintendo home systems haven't sold well for 2 generations now - and we're already seeing it with this generation - on the Wii.

For the previous 2 generations, Nintendo treated 3rd party developers as lepers. You know this. Most of those developers said "Fuck the Big N" and left the building, and those developers adopted an attitude of tossing shovelware onto the GameCube. They figured that the Wii was more of the same and refused to believe it could succeed. Now that the system has some success, they still have that same arrogance, and many of the games have been shovelware SHIT. Shit doesn't sell even to gibbering retards.

As for the "casual Wii buyers don't buy games" anyone who buys a game console knows the score. You buy more than 1 game, eventually. And since there are about 4 times more Wii owners than PS3 owners, it takes a whole lot smaller percentage of Wii owners to make a game that will sell comparably to a PS3 game.

As much as I hate to end up on Schild's side of the fence on this one, the above is a great summary of why their aren't third party developers racing for the Wii.

Nintendo has always treated them like crap. I'm sure a lot of developers are waiting to see if Nintendo's new "We won't beat you any more - we've changed and been to therapy and everything, just come on back darling" is really sincere or if they are going to end up crying alone in the pantry again.

Next up, the shovelware hasn't been that successful. A lot of companies used this shovelware to test the market, to see what sticks. It didn't. Now, you can pretend that if the games had been good, they would have sold, but only Nintendo properties have been that successful to this point. Now, if there are that many people out there with Wiis, it should have been easier to move that shovelware, right? Especially among people who don't know games, who buy based on the pretty pictures, based on the IP on the cover of the box, right? But this didn't happen, or happen in large enough quantities to get more games greenlit that were Wii exclusive anyway.

Finally, as publically as some devs lauded the Wiimote, I'm sure a lot looked at it and privately went "WTF? How do I design for that?". I've heard stories of devs finding the Wiimote too sensitive to develop for and releasing near-enough-is-good-enough control schemes for games that then don't sell. Given that you could design the same game for the Xbox 360 on a control scheme you understand on a system with more overall power, I can understand why third party devs keep holding off on this system.

At the end of the day, I think that the ultra-casual Wii owner isn't going to go out and buy a stack of full-priced games over the course of the year. Instead, they are more likely to pick up one big property (read: Nintendo first party game) and maybe some budget / second hand games because they are cheap and it doesn't matter if they don't get played more than 1 hour a week. That's not a very attractive market for a developer.

Now, if Nintendo really wanted to see third party game studios running into its arms, it has to move a whole stack of its extremely-casual Wii owners to buy more games off the shelves of EB - in short, to move them up from extremely-casual and a step or two towards hardcore. But Nintendo doesn't care so much to do that given that their first party games are selling really well and they make money on every Wii sold. They don't need to do value add services to make themselves more money, while the Xbox 360 has those extra services (Xbox Live) as a key part of its strategy. And if Nintendo isn't going to help drive Wii owners towards buying more third party games, then no-one is.

Okay, maybe Nintendo will value add and I was wrong. I need to see more detail about this strategy though.

*As a side note, I had a lot of fun playing Red Steel on a friend's Wii. Felt like I was drunk, but it was fun none-the-less.

[Margalis]

I think many people underestimate how big a turn-off RROD is.

I hate returning shit. Part of the reasons people buy consoles is to avoid hassles, not to encourage them. The RROD issue blew up in MS' face right as they were poised to destroy Sony.

Edit: PS3 owners should decide what they are bitching about. Is the problem that the Wii doesn't have any games and publishers, or is the problem that PS3 games are moving to the Wii instead? Complaining about both seems silly.

I don't see any evidence that 3rd party devs are holding out on the Wii. What I see is that many publishers expected Sony or MS to win out and had projects lined up, then saw that the Wii was popular and are now changing their tune. Of course the first games to come out were shit puzzle games because those take 6 months to make.

Everything I've read is that publishers are moving more resources to Wii development. Monster Hunter 3 and Fatal Frame seem to anecdotally confirm that.

[Righ]

The thing that surprised me in this thread was learning that there is still a currency in the English speaking world that is valued below the US Dollar.