Australia Gets PS3 price cut for new Crippled PS3s!

[HaemishM]

Gibbering retards like games too. They may even like more sophisticated games if the developers give them half a chance instead of shoveling turds down their throat while masturbating to pixel shader specs.

[schild]

Gibbering retards like games too. They may even like more sophisticated games if the developers give them half a chance instead of shoveling turds down their throat while masturbating to pixel shader specs.

Maybe you missed my point.

There's no reason to spend money on making sophisticated games for gibbering retards. They'll make maybe 20% more with 100-400% more investment just on the development end. It's not business savvy. Throw some shitty minigames on a disc, put a fucking cartoon character on the cover. Spend all your money on publishing it at a clever time avoiding Nintendo shit. Wear money hat.

[Velorath]

The Wii did just lock down Monster Hunter 3 as an exclusive though.

[Yegolev]

3rd party Wii devs are for the most part being insulting shitbags right now. They either want to make licensed kids crap, or shovel titles over on the system from other systems with waggle added as an afterthought, or they think the only thing people want is mini-games. People who should know better are throwing good money away developing shit.

NOW STRIKE ME DOWN AND YOUR CONVERSION WILL BE COMPLETE!

[HaemishM]

Don't fuck with my Wiightsaber.

[cmlancas]

Devs just don't want to program for a game that doesn't have the latest shiny. I've seen it in PC game development for years, and it's the same assholes making the same excuses. It's somehow beneath them.

Where do you feel WoW falls in the midst of "PC game development for years"?

Not to have the ultra-mega-derail or anything.

I know if a game came out that featured Anakin Skywalker killing the fuck out of some sand people with a WiiMoteSaber, I'd have to buy it for my girlfriend. It would for sure be business time that night.


Is anyone else not more surprised that the 360 isn't pulling away from the pack more at this stage of the game? Medium price point, decent game selection? Apart from the one in three 360s is unusable argument, which I think MS handled pretty damn well letting anyone send it back who wanted, I don't know why 360 sales aren't doing better than they are. I keep telling myself that I want a PS3 because the PS2 was so great, but I've always been a bang-for-the-buck shopper. I just don't want a 360 that will fry itself in a week and a half of me torturing it.

[Sairon]

Of course programmers wants to work on the latest shiny, it's the cutting edge problem solving and tech which makes the profession intresting for a lot of people.

Same goes for artists, more hardware sauce = more polys/higher res textures = more artistic possiblities.

[Velorath]

Is anyone else not more surprised that the 360 isn't pulling away from the pack more at this stage of the game? Medium price point, decent game selection? Apart from the one in three 360s is unusable argument, which I think MS handled pretty damn well letting anyone send it back who wanted, I don't know why 360 sales aren't doing better than they are. I keep telling myself that I want a PS3 because the PS2 was so great, but I've always been a bang-for-the-buck shopper. I just don't want a 360 that will fry itself in a week and a half of me torturing it.

The 360 is doing pretty well in the U.S. and the U.K., it mostly sales in the rest of Europe and in Japan that are slowing it down a bit (and pretty much everyone knew it was never gonna fly in Japan).  You also have to remember that they went well over a year without droping the price, and even this recent price drop wasn't a huge one.

[HaemishM]

Devs just don't want to program for a game that doesn't have the latest shiny. I've seen it in PC game development for years, and it's the same assholes making the same excuses. It's somehow beneath them.

Where do you feel WoW falls in the midst of "PC game development for years"?

Proof that I'm right.

WoW was low-system specs, low-poly and sold like a goddamn mint. EQ2 came out the same time, was technologically superior and had the higher-res graphics. It also happened to be a better game, which people who played both saw immediately. EQ2 didn't get any real good boosts in numbers until the mainstream MMOG PC users' machines could keep up with it and they improved the gameplay.

Running on more machines means a bigger potential audience, something the EQ2 assholes (and McQuaid and his Vanguard assholes) never understood. Hell, look at Shadowrun on the PC. By all accounts a decent game, but it's DX10 only, Vista-only arrogance killed its sales on the platform. Whereas, if you make that game DX9 compatible on XP as well, it's sales probably would have been enough to keep the studio going.

WoW and the Wii both prove that mainstream gamers don't care about high-poly, high-def game graphics as much as good gameplay.

[Margalis]

360 hardware problems are a major sticking point. Nobody wants to deal with having to return a system 5 times.

[UnSub]

WoW and the Wii both prove that mainstream gamers don't care about high-poly, high-def game graphics as much as good gameplay.

That's garbage as an overall statement. Plenty of hi-end graphics games with mediocre game experiences sell really well, while games with good gameplay and less then optimal graphics die on the shelf.

Shadowbanerun was a reportedly average game that was released too early into a very small market.

Besides, it's not like WoW and the Wii didn't have millions of dollars in advertising / marketing poured into them to let the world at large know about them. That they were easily accessible after that point just helped some the conversion from awareness to sales. Also, both had huge brands driving them - EQ is nowhere near as well recognised as Warcraft as a gamer brand. Especially outside of the US.

[UnSub]

edit after reading full thread - yes. I'm loving the new exchange rate. Most of my disposable income is going directly overseas to various vendors. Support local businesses middlemen? Fuck that.

I r retarded - I really should buy an Xbox 360 and have it shipped rather than buy it locally.

Could someone who has followed this better than I have tell me if I import an Xbox 360 am I going to have regionalisation issues with games or with having to return it after it dies?

[pants]

I r retarded - I really should buy an Xbox 360 and have it shipped rather than buy it locally.

Could someone who has followed this better than I have tell me if I import an Xbox 360 am I going to have regionalisation issues with games or with having to return it after it dies?

I can see a few issues to importing a 360 (or any console for that matter).

* PAL/NTSC - I'm guessing this is an issue (tho not certain).
* Power supply - 110v vs 240v
* RROD - Microsoft Australia would surely tell you to GFY if you try to get them to warranty fix a non-Aus release xbox - you'd have to ship to back to USA.
* And finally I'm guessing shipping from US to Aus would eat up a lot of the savings.

I haven't crunched the numbers - but I'm not too confident it would be worth the hassle.

[Calantus]

I sure as hell wouldn't ship an xbox360 considering how many people end up with faults. Could you imagine having to send that shit back to the states to get it fixed/replaced?

[Simond]

I still play PS1 games on my PS2.

Me too, the removal of it makes me less inclined to get a PS3, but isn't this Europe only? are am i reading this wrong?

It's only been officially launched in Europe & Convict-land, but it's already showing up in the stock-control & order systems for most US retailers iirc.

[Azazel]

Not really clearer, no. Sorry! :) I could understand expressing a little disappointment, especially if you planned on getting one soon, but that doesn't seem to be the case. You were going to wait awhile for a better PS3 game catalog, a cheaper pricetag, and when HDTV's became a little more ubiquitous -- and I say to that: If you were going to hold out that long, then PS2 compability isn't going to mean much by then anyways. Just like PS1 compatibility on PS2's hasn't meant much for years now. Don't sweat it.

You make a point, but I'll explain why it doesn't work, for me anyway.

The PS2 is the modern SNES. It's the console that has the mostest of the bestest, and quite a lot of other stuff that's still pretty bloody playable.

The main issue for me with PS3 to date is the pricetag. A more robust gaming experience is obviously a bloody important factor as well, but that's more of an issue in tandem with high price (to me) than a major issue of it's own. Back to the PS2 thing, I own more PS2 games than for any other console I have ever owned. Being able to use my PS2 games (and ideally, a few of the PS1 survivors like the Raiden games and some of the Arcade Classics would have been the plan. Not to mention GH1/2/80s. Fucking all of that massive back catalogue off is a pretty dumb move, especially as I get more pressed for space and power points..

The thing about HDTVs for me is that I'm not too worried about them, I'll get one whenever. As I said a few times, my projected time for ownership for a PS3 was going to be this coming Christmas at the earliest, and more then likely by Christmas 2008. I'd likely already own a 360 if I felt I could trust them not to red-ring-brick. More than once I've had the money in my pocket but decided against it. By the same means, if the PS3 wasn't as expensive as it is, I'd own one already. It's just not worth that much to me. I'd pay AU$500 (US$550)for one, probably. AU$1000 (US$1100) is just too fucking much though.

Gutting it and then selling it for AU$700 (US$770) though, they can go fuck themselves.


clearer? ;)

[Azazel]

It's easy when the bulk of your fanbase is gibbering retards.

You just described all of the consoles. Ever.

Plus most of the general public.

[schild]

It's easy when the bulk of your fanbase is gibbering retards.

You just described all of the consoles. Ever.

Plus most of the general public.

Oh, I don't disagree. But Wii owners, particularly for people who have never owned a console before, far outpace the retardedness of other fans. At least - at the very least - Xbox and PS3 owners are more informed in general. That might be because it's mostly hardcore gamers. In fact, I'm sure it is. But it's easier to market to hardcore gamers also. So, uhm, yea.

Also,

UK, October 11, 2007 - Despite Nintendo reporting it can't keep up with demand for its Wii console, a Japanese newspaper is claiming that developers are concerned its bubble is about to burst, with some actually nervous about making titles for the motion-sensing machine, in case they don't sell.

This comes from The Nikkei Business Daily, which has been speaking to software houses about their thoughts on the future of Wii. Several developers claim that Nintendo has been the only beneficiary of Wii's success as it was able to predict demand for the console, while other publishers were forced to catch up quickly producing titles - some of which ended up as flops.

Meanwhile, others think that the Wii is only a fad and its popularity will fade. One unnamed president of a developer told Nikkei: "The Wii is like the 'Billy's Boot Camp' weight-loss program on DVD. People bought it out of curiosity, and it's likely a lot of them haven't used it".

According to Nikkei, concern is also growing in the Japanese industry after sales of Wii slowed considerably to just 168,000 units - the worst month of sales since December 2006. Now companies are "on guard for signs of a major change".

Developers thinking the same thing as me? Unpossible.

[Yegolev]

I'll toss out a couple of tidbits for consideration when looking at the PS3.

Firstly, it's region-free; I don't know how this affects the PAL/NTSC thing, honestly, due to not importing one.

Secondly, it does not supprt DualShock 1/2 controllers, nor by extension any other PS2 peripheral due to lack of compatible ports, so unless someone has manufactured a PS3-compatible (or USB perhaps) guitar then I don't see how it would work on a PS3.  For anything else, though, the BC is unmatched... mostly because the old games look better than they did on their primary systems.  The virtual memory cards are something you get used to very quickly, as well.

[HaemishM]

UK, October 11, 2007 - Despite Nintendo reporting it can't keep up with demand for its Wii console, a Japanese newspaper is claiming that developers are concerned its bubble is about to burst, with some actually nervous about making titles for the motion-sensing machine, in case they don't sell.

This comes from The Nikkei Business Daily, which has been speaking to software houses about their thoughts on the future of Wii. Several developers claim that Nintendo has been the only beneficiary of Wii's success as it was able to predict demand for the console, while other publishers were forced to catch up quickly producing titles - some of which ended up as flops.

Meanwhile, others think that the Wii is only a fad and its popularity will fade. One unnamed president of a developer told Nikkei: "The Wii is like the 'Billy's Boot Camp' weight-loss program on DVD. People bought it out of curiosity, and it's likely a lot of them haven't used it".

According to Nikkei, concern is also growing in the Japanese industry after sales of Wii slowed considerably to just 168,000 units - the worst month of sales since December 2006. Now companies are "on guard for signs of a major change".

Developers thinking the same thing as me? Unpossible.

Gee, developers, who are mostly hardcore gamers, thinking just like one of the most vocal hardcore gamers on the planet.

UNPOSSIBLE!!!!!!

Of course they think like you, that's the problem. They all WANT the Wii bubble to burst because they don't want to program for it. They think it, the system and the people who bought the system ARE BENEATH THEM. That arrogance has already bit them in the ass, when they realized that "Oh shit, this waggle thing is catching on and the $600 Blu-Ray player I want to make games for hasn't sold for shit." Then they made a second arrogant mistake, thinking they could half-ass waggle onto shovelware ports and make money. And then they get pissy and give up on the system AGAIN when those shitty, shovelware ports don't sell because... they are shitty, shovelware ports.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of arrogant donkery. Games that are shitty shovelware just thrown out to catch a quick buck don't sell because even casual gamers, even fucking grandmothers who like Wii Tennis, they can spot shitty games. "This isn't as fun as Wii Tennis" isn't an indictment of the hardware, it's an indictment of shitty, lazy-ass, money-grabbing developers.

If the 3rd party devs who are bitching so much about the Wii having shitty games would actually, I don't know, focus on making a GOOD game for whatever audience they want to target, the games would sell. I'm looking at you Activision, UbiSoft and ESPECIALLY EA Sports. You are cockgobblers all. It is you who are the balllickers.

[schild]

Haemish, poor people, kids and casual gamers DON'T BUY LOTS OF GAMES. And they buy even less once you take Nintendo games out of the equation. Call it arrogance, I call it dodging a motherfucking bullet.

Man, third party games on Nintendo home systems haven't sold well for 2 generations now - and we're already seeing it with this generation - on the Wii.

Everything we're seeing is the natural order of things.

[Yegolev]

I also think it's a bubble since the Wii is the new Pong.  Some poor kid with only a Wii asks his dad for New Game and dad will probably say "You already got you some games, go play that.  Hell, go outside if yer bored.  Watch Spongebill or something.  I ain't gonna be buyin' you a new game every few months, boy, you got it good...."

Or you have casual people who saw the TV ads and get the Nintendo marketing emails (maybe).  They aren't going to be buying lots of games because it's still easier to get everyone to play Scrabble.  They would have to play the holy shit out of their existing library before buying something new because they are not gamers.  These are also the people that talk about MySims and don't mention the stuttering during the loading screens.  It's because they don't have the proper background to understand that such things are very bad.

In my opinion, Nintendo needs to cut loose completely from the gamer demographic.  The developers don't want to put AAA titles on the Wii and Nintendo doesn't give a shit, obviously.  The publishers, they are the ones that love the Wii because they are businessmen, not gamers.  Nothing wrong with capitalism, though, and whenever I see a studio skip the Wii I get the feeling that they wanted to make a quality game (successful or not) rather than just sell lots of discs.  Nothing wrong with either one, for different reasons, but I'm not expecting the Wii to eventually be flooded with games that I want to play.

[Sky]

Haemish, poor people, kids and casual gamers DON'T BUY LOTS OF GAMES.

But there are a metric fucking shitton of them.

[Roac]

The publishers, they are the ones that love the Wii because they are businessmen, not gamers.  Nothing wrong with capitalism, though, and whenever I see a studio skip the Wii I get the feeling that they wanted to make a quality game (successful or not) rather than just sell lots of discs.  Nothing wrong with either one, for different reasons, but I'm not expecting the Wii to eventually be flooded with games that I want to play.

Wrong.  Developer shops are driven by business just as much as publishers are.  Anyone that forgets that winds up being out of business.  No amount of gaming idealism is going to save you from the cold reality that if you don't move disks, you don't get paid.  Paychecks trump idealism.  

[Yegolev]

OK, let's assume you are right.  How do you explain developers making games for the PSP or PS3?  Or, hell, the 360?

[Roac]

OK, let's assume you are right.  How do you explain developers making games for the PSP or PS3?  Or, hell, the 360?

...to make money.

[Yegolev]

They would make more if they developed for the Wii.

[schild]

The publishers, they are the ones that love the Wii because they are businessmen, not gamers.  Nothing wrong with capitalism, though, and whenever I see a studio skip the Wii I get the feeling that they wanted to make a quality game (successful or not) rather than just sell lots of discs.  Nothing wrong with either one, for different reasons, but I'm not expecting the Wii to eventually be flooded with games that I want to play.

Wrong.  Developer shops are driven by business just as much as publishers are.  Anyone that forgets that winds up being out of business.  No amount of gaming idealism is going to save you from the cold reality that if you don't move disks, you don't get paid.  Paychecks trump idealism. 

But then, there's also margins. For example, the PSP. The return per disc is simply better. There's a lot of smaller companies making PSP instead of DS games - even in Japan - because of this. Smaller houses have the ability to charge $60 per game now on home consoles. And even Sony is lightening up on restrictions for America. I'm not expecting a 2D revival, but restrictions are much lighter (see: SNK). Anyway, Disgaea 3 will bring in bucketloads for them no matter how you slice it.

Also, lol@yegolev.

[HaemishM]

Man, third party games on Nintendo home systems haven't sold well for 2 generations now - and we're already seeing it with this generation - on the Wii.

For the previous 2 generations, Nintendo treated 3rd party developers as lepers. You know this. Most of those developers said "Fuck the Big N" and left the building, and those developers adopted an attitude of tossing shovelware onto the GameCube. They figured that the Wii was more of the same and refused to believe it could succeed. Now that the system has some success, they still have that same arrogance, and many of the games have been shovelware SHIT. Shit doesn't sell even to gibbering retards.

As for the "casual Wii buyers don't buy games" anyone who buys a game console knows the score. You buy more than 1 game, eventually. And since there are about 4 times more Wii owners than PS3 owners, it takes a whole lot smaller percentage of Wii owners to make a game that will sell comparably to a PS3 game.

[HaemishM]

They would make more if they developed for the Wii.

Depends on the game. Would a shooter like Resistance or Halo make more money on the Wii? Probably not. It's return on investment would probably be better per unit, because they wouldn't be spending so much on art assets. But I don't expect grandmothers to turn into Halo bitches just because they have a Wii.

[schild]

I can't think of a single third party short of MEGAHITS that would've pushed units for the fucking Phillips CDI that will make more money on the Wii.

Oh, except for non-games and minigame collections.

Lol, system has been turned into the State Fair of gaming systems. I suppose that's fitting.

[Roac]

They would make more if they developed for the Wii.

Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on the game; a game spec that calls for top end graphics as a selling point isn't going to go on the Wii anymore than a game spec that calls for interactive controlls is going on the 360.  The console tools and demographics are other considerations.  Development costs are considerations.  Future market predictions are considerations.  Over all of this though, is that there is advantage in spreading your risk.  Any of the larger development shops are going to build for multiple platforms, because it bodes well to not put all your eggs in one basket.  If you invest heavily in any one console, there is a risk that the console will slump or the market for that console get flooded with competition, either of which could kill your company.  Lower profits on another console to offset risk can be a good thing.  The same basic logic also applies to game genre; it's often better to spread your risk around.  Beyond that, you're also looking at profit margins, not raw profit, so that even lower units sold may turn out for the best if you can sustain either a higher per unit cost, and/or lower development costs.  Likewise, it's no good making $10m on a game if you spent nearly as much in production and marketing.  Seeing a $5m return on a $3m investment is by far the winner.

[Yegolev]

Considering the third-party Nintendo games I have played, I think N was right in considering them lepers.

Seriously, though, I don't know how much "working with Nintendo" offsets "cheaper to develop" and "larger install base" but we all know there are barriers.  I can't predict the moneys from putting Halo on Wii, but maybe we can estimate Resistance.  How much money did Medal of Honor: Vanguard rake in?  If you can't sell MoH to morons, you need to stick to WiiFit.

I see where you are going Roac and I agree in general, but I don't see people doing crossplatform between Wii and other consoles.  As far as I can tell, Wii games are Wii games due to the hardware differences.  I certainly can't think of an example of a crossplatform title on, say, Wii and 360.

[schild]

Rayman Raving Rabbids.

Granted. Minigame collection.

[cmlancas]

I can think of games released for Wii that would have sold well on 360, but not ones that were released for both.