Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"

[Malakili]

I mean, that's where games are going. Isolate the individual from the reality of global awareness and status, and tell them they're the best.

So... single player games?

[Maven]

Pretty much, though I'm all for games that emphasize the character and his uniqueness or explore something in a way movies can't rather than attempting to insert the player into the role of protaganist and give him warm feelings of superiority. Mechanics wise, all options are available to create the effect you're looking for. More often than not its empowerment.

[Threash]

The only "multiplayer" i want out of my mmos nowadays is a)non retarded guild chat and b)people i can kill. 

[Nebu]

The only "multiplayer" i want out of my mmos nowadays is a)non retarded guild chat and b)people i can kill. 

Make that and I will give you my money.  Also add 5 man raids. 

[Pennilenko]

The only "multiplayer" i want out of my mmos nowadays is a)non retarded guild chat and b)people i can kill. 

Make that and I will give you my money.  Also add 5 man raids. 

I would subscribe to that.

[Lantyssa]

Make it flexible for anything from solo to groups of 10 or more and you can have my money, too.

[angry.bob]

So what I've been preaching for since EQ. I should have been a designer. My games would be giant ass monkey fun.

[Rasix]

Ahh yes, the solo, yet scalable, raid.  I've always wanted one.

[Paelos]

Ahh yes, the solo, yet scalable, raid.  I've always wanted one.

I fully expect WoW to try it at some point when things get bad. They've already done the flex 10-25 thing. They have scenarios for one. It's just the next logical step.

[Nebu]

Ahh yes, the solo, yet scalable, raid.  I've always wanted one.

Just give me henchmen that are the equivalent to a below average human.  I'd enjoy the challenge of dragging them through a dungeon.  It couldn't be any worse and I wouldn't have to deal with the childish behavior.

[Lantyssa]

GW1 heroes could be better than other players with a bit of work spent gathering skills.  My healers and interrupters rocked.

[Fordel]

GW1 had AI that ran out of the fire, it's already miles ahead of half the player base.

Of course GW2 has AI that can't both swing sword and walk forward at the same time. SO 

[Venkman]

Well crap, my resistance is fading. They just updated the new player experience, which I didn't find hard at all but can see why their improvements make sense. Seems like the precursor to a marketing push, or maybe they're getting a lot of players back from TESO et al as holdover until the next WoW expansion or whatnot. Lotta work to do unless you think new players are showing up

[murdoc]

Well crap, my resistance is fading. They just updated the new player experience, which I didn't find hard at all but can see why their improvements make sense. Seems like the precursor to a marketing push, or maybe they're getting a lot of players back from TESO et al as holdover until the next WoW expansion or whatnot. Lotta work to do unless you think new players are showing up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y

[Venkman]

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic. I watched that thinking all the way they're tailoring it for a console release targeted at tweens. Maybe that's the target? Or some other market that isn't as experienced at MMOs?

Seems too easy, and possibly grindy now. Getting the skills by skill use was a nice way to get rewarded for figuring out how to play my own way. Going back to the model of skills at certain levels seems old school. Sure it removes the burden of having to explain things and the horror of asking gamers to figure it out themselves.

Still probably gonna check it out 

[Rasix]

 

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic. I watched that thinking all the way they're tailoring it for a console release targeted at tweens. Maybe that's the target? Or some other market that isn't as experienced at MMOs?

 

No, they're just inept.  And this is their new game experience.  Enjoy it. 

[Paelos]

Bold statement.

[Rasix]

I'm not sure the game is too affected for the higher level characters, but this revamped noob experience sounds absolutely horrid.

[Spiff]

I'm still playing it on and off, hadn't even noticed this before I saw that vid here as all my characters are thankfully max level.
It does look like an almost unbelievably backwards direction to move in for them, but then however great I think their initial development was (still the best MMO out there atm to me) it's been one dumb move after another since launch.
The schism between the pre- and post -launch development is quite astounding really.

[murdoc]

I'm not sure the game is too affected for the higher level characters, but this revamped noob experience sounds absolutely horrid.

It's not, it's just the noob experience. It does worry me a bit what they have planned for the 'veteran' players. Not that the noob experience really makes a difference to me, I leveled a Ranger in 6 days with my birthday booster and zerging it up in Edge of the Mists. I think I had about 4% of the world explored when I hit 80.

[Ingmar]

Leveling in Edge sounds a lot worse to me when you slow down skill unlocks that much.

[Senses]

Its pretty clear that if you haven't tried this game yet, and are even slightly interested, wait 3 months for the f2p option.

[Ginaz]

Well, this didn't take long.  Looks like they're removing some of the raid attunement shenanigans.  Totally didn't see this coming.

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/113180-update-notes-09112014/

[Threash]

That just means the raid is actually ready for mass consumption and they don't need to slow down the playerbase until they finish anymore.

[Rokal]

Nice changes I guess, but I still maintain that the raid content in Wildstar is too niche. The raids appeal to people that want to play in 20/40 man groups, have a schedule that facilitates it, and have a computer that can actually handle that amount of people in a raid setting without turning into a slide show. The gear/skill requirements can be tuned by nerfing the raids but I don't see a future for Wildstar raids unless they change the sizes.

[Nebu]

All raid content is niche.  Having to herd 40 cats (or even 25) together for a single goal is time consuming.  The more culture moves toward instant gratification, the less you'll see of this mechanic.  It's a dinosaur.  Anything beyond a small group or possibly up to 10 is going to be the norm... that is if anyone ever gets money to make an MMORPG again.

[Draegan]

Weren't they planning this all along? I thought I remember hearing that they were going to nerf/tone down raid content as it ages.

[Shatter]

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/114584-state-of-the-game/

Love this part:

Attunement- The raid content was designed to have players actually play it. We adjusted the attunement process to help get players into raids, where the real challenge is. Getting in is one thing, being prepared is another. We are currently implementing a training dungeon that will help train and prepare players for the epic challenges that await them in our dungeons and raids. I want to stress that we’re not nerfing raids, we’re just giving you the tools to succeed when tackling them

WTF

[luckton]

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/114584-state-of-the-game/

Love this part:

Attunement- The raid content was designed to have players actually play it. We adjusted the attunement process to help get players into raids, where the real challenge is. Getting in is one thing, being prepared is another. We are currently implementing a training dungeon that will help train and prepare players for the epic challenges that await them in our dungeons and raids. I want to stress that we’re not nerfing raids, we’re just giving you the tools to succeed when tackling them

WTF

This is like Apple telling everyone today regarding #bendgate "You're not holding it right".

[Rasix]

Fucking clueless.  It's like they're perfecting the trans-Atlantic zeppelin experience.  No one gives a shit anymore; we've got planes.

[Fabricated]

"Hmmm... no one is doing the raids because everything is too hard and not enough people are doing the attunement. I guess we can nerf the attunement a bit..."

*no one still runs the raids*

"Man, no one is running the raids still and people are quitting in droves. Maybe we didn't train them enough?"

[SurfD]

"Hmmm... no one is doing the raids because everything is too hard and not enough people are doing the attunement. I guess we can nerf the attunement a bit..."

*no one still runs the raids*

"Man, no one is running the raids still and people are quitting in droves. Maybe we didn't train them enough?"

And somewhere in the background, you can hear the hardcore WoW raider chanting "we want harder raids, we want harder raids".

[sam, an eggplant]

WoW fills that need by offering several difficulty modes. Wildstar dismissed everybody that didn't want to do hard modes. They knew this would relegate their raid (and dungeon) content to the hardcore, but they just happened to substantially underestimate the size of that hardcore audience and the importance of a giant feeder pool of aspirational new and casual players to sustain the hardcore rosters.

[Miasma]

I look forward to guilds trying to organize twenty (or worse yet forty) people together to run this training raid with the promise of no loot.  I mean if anything part of attunement that could actually be useful is having to get 'gold' in a solo simulator where you do nothing but stay out of fire and cycle your key skill (taunt, heal, interrupt) when appropriate.

Actually, what would be hilarious, is if the training raid simulator isn't something that teaches you to get out of fire and cycle interrupts but instead trains raid leaders to herd kittens.  I mean that's the biggest stumbling block really, trying to get 25 people on your raid team at the right place at the right time.  Having five for alternates who may or may not get in.  Having a proper dps/tank/healer split.  Having an off tank that can take over as main if he doesn't show.  The trainer should teach you how to use voice comms with different hotkeys for raid-wide and officer-only.  How to keep morale up by having fun instead of screaming and sniping at people.  How to deal with fucking drama queens.  Knowing when someone is just straight up hopeless at staying out of fire and replacing them.  Knowing when to call it a night.

[01101010]

I look forward to guilds trying to organize twenty (or worse yet forty) people together to run this training raid with the promise of no loot.  I mean if anything part of attunement that could actually be useful is having to get 'gold' in a solo simulator where you do nothing but stay out of fire and cycle your key skill (taunt, heal, interrupt) when appropriate.

Actually, what would be hilarious, is if the training raid simulator isn't something that teaches you to get out of fire and cycle interrupts but instead trains raid leaders to herd kittens.  I mean that's the biggest stumbling block really, trying to get 25 people on your raid team at the right place at the right time.  Having five for alternates who may or may not get in.  Having a proper dps/tank/healer split.  Having an off tank that can take over as main if he doesn't show.  The trainer should teach you how to use voice comms with different hotkeys for raid-wide and officer-only.  How to keep morale up by having fun instead of screaming and sniping at people.  How to deal with fucking drama queens.  Knowing when someone is just straight up hopeless at staying out of fire and replacing them.  Knowing when to call it a night.

Nice laundry list of why I don't raid anymore.