NFL Football- It's FANtastic!

[WayAbvPar]

That's it, the Steelers were the last team I thought had a legit shot to beat the Pats. They play the Jets and Miami, which should both be curbstompings of the ugliest kind.

The Pats are going to try to score 100 on the Jets for having the gall to complain that the Pats were BREAKING THE FUCKING RULES. It isn't too late for their team plane to go down, is it?

[El Gallo]

Back when Bradshaw played, you were actually allowed to play defense against a wide receiver, you could chuck all the way downfield, offensive linemen weren't allowed to pass block with their hands, there was one fewer line judge (added to call pass interference penalties).  The big rule changes were put in in the late 70s/early 80s, but they have ratched up enforcement of the 5 yard chuck rule and the pass interference rule several times since.  I'm sure I have forgotten some but the rules & enforcement policies have been modified many times to create more passing, because points = tv ratings.

They've also radically increased protection for the quarterback.  In 1975, if you ran 5 wide receivers your quarterback would die.  Now that QB contact is essentially 2-hand touch only, you can run offenses where you do very little to protect the QB.  Also, the West Coast offense (throw short passes instead of running to control the ball, throw short slants so you can get large gains on short passes) wasn't really perfected until the 49er teams and has continued to evolve (largely in tandem with rules/enforcement changes).

Comparing Romo to Bradshaw is kind of like comparing a contemporary baseball player to someone who played during the dead ball era.

PS- I may be blinded by fandom, but I think the Pats are beatable in the playoffs by the Steelers, as well as the Chargers/Jags/Colts.  The Pats have not demonstrated an ability to run or stop the run against good teams, and all the Pats playoff games will be played in Boston in January.  With some wind/sleet/rain/snow, it'll be non-trivial to win when your offense is based on throwing the ball 80% of the time.  And their defense is old.  I'd make the Pats a favorite, but wouldn't be shocked if they lost.  If they build a dome over that stadium, they are 19-0.

PPS - looks like Vick got 23 months http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/12/10/vick_1211.html  Earliest he can get out is May 2009

[stray]

I don't know what to think about Glenn (or rather, just an extra receiver like that). It could disrupt how well it already works now. Having T.O. as the deep threat, and Witten just killing teams who care enough about T.O. to pull that Tampa 2 shit. The only thing I'd like to see changed is Jones off the top of the depth chart. Seriously.. Wtf.

[naum]

Back when Bradshaw played, you were actually allowed to play defense against a wide receiver, you could chuck all the way downfield, offensive linemen weren't allowed to pass block with their hands, there was one fewer line judge (added to call pass interference penalties).  The big rule changes were put in in the late 70s/early 80s, but they have ratched up enforcement of the 5 yard chuck rule and the pass interference rule several times since.  I'm sure I have forgotten some but the rules & enforcement policies have been modified many times to create more passing, because points = tv ratings.

They've also radically increased protection for the quarterback.  In 1975, if you ran 5 wide receivers your quarterback would die.  Now that QB contact is essentially 2-hand touch only, you can run offenses where you do very little to protect the QB.  Also, the West Coast offense (throw short passes instead of running to control the ball, throw short slants so you can get large gains on short passes) wasn't really perfected until the 49er teams and has continued to evolve (largely in tandem with rules/enforcement changes).

Comparing Romo to Bradshaw is kind of like comparing a contemporary baseball player to someone who played during the dead ball era.

… …the changes were also a strike against the powers of the day, Oakland and Pittsburgh, that had DB that played so physical and just eliminated receivers from the play…

Steelers played well in 1st half, limited Patriots but couldn't convert their own chances… …in the 2nd half, the Patriots made offensive adjustments that LeBeau (or the talent on field) simply couldn't account for and the Patriots O was unstoppable… …Steelers DB got gunshy after getting beat deep early and then Brady made them pay the rest of the way…

…no Polamolu is big as well as road (Steelers undefeated at home I believe - all losses on road season), but playoffs could be different nut. Still, I think if Patriots go 16-0, they are going to waltz to 19-0 and Super Bowl no matter how well opponent team plays them…

[stray]

They've also radically increased protection for the quarterback.  In 1975, if you ran 5 wide receivers your quarterback would die.  Now that QB contact is essentially 2-hand touch only, you can run offenses where you do very little to protect the QB.  Also, the West Coast offense (throw short passes instead of running to control the ball, throw short slants so you can get large gains on short passes) wasn't really perfected until the 49er teams and has continued to evolve (largely in tandem with rules/enforcement changes).

I don't think it matters if QB's are overly protected or not. Are you even watching how Brady or Romo play? Especially Brady. The fucker consistently guns the ball right after the snap -- Who does he need to be protected from? The ball is already in the air.

[Rasix]

You know those hits they take in the chest area, they could easily be in their legs or up around the head area on a consistent basis.  And the reason they're able to get the ball away that quick? The receiver isn't getting mauled the entire way down the field.  Or you know, the stuff Rooster just said. 

If you can, you should read some of Dr. Z's columns on SI's site.  He occasionally can elaborate how the game has changed and allowed for the proliferation of these passing attacks.

This isn't to belittle what Romo, Favre, Brady, and Manning are doing (especially the later 3, can we put away the anointing oil for Romo for a sec, I don't want to hear this crap for the next 10 years).  Their statistics should be taken in context and the term "legend" and "all time great" shouldn't be thrown around lightly. 

If you really want any more evidence of how the passing attack has exploded in this era, just look at receiving stats.  Remember when Steve Largent was the all time receptions leader?

[Paelos]

Saints v. Falcons tonight. Will any offense actually score? We'll find out!

[stray]

The best receivers aren't getting mauled a lot because their names are Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. It's called skill. Not a change in rules.

And when they are getting mauled (and there are ways to do it), then the teams that are winning games are the same ones who have trained secondary receivers to not just stand around and block -- but to be ready for the pass.

And I don't deny that passing has opened up a lot, but I think it's more to do with certain positions (especially the Tight End, and often RB's) being exploited more than in the past. Which is to say that there's simply more receivers on the field than just the WR's. I think the reasons for Manning's success is a little different -- Seems like he changes plays on the fly more than anyone else. He brings a lot of confusion.

[Rasix]

Rule changes have occurred.  Seriously, we're not lying here.

[naum]

Rule changes have occurred.  Seriously, we're not lying here.

* head slap banned (watch some old NFL films of Deacon Jones doing his thing)

* offensive linemen allowed to use hands

* offensive linemen allowed to be upright instead of set

* WR only permitted to be hit once in 5 yards

* QB protected, slightest hit can be roughing

* more interference calls, due to additional ref and emphasis by league

Do you really think those are insignificant developments that didn't translate into increased passing yards and catches…?

[stray]

Rule changes have occurred.  Seriously, we're not lying here.

No shit. Doesn't change the fact there is such a thing as good playcalling, good reading of coverages, and player skill. Have some appreciation for the game. Whining about rules is for losers.

[HaemishM]

Shit, I can show you examples from within the last five years.

You remember the snow game in the playoffs in New England? Indy vs. New England, snow just dumping the whole field, mudballs everywhere. The NE corners were just manhandling the Colts receivers right on the line and then all the way around the field. Just sticking to them like wet t-shirts to drunk barbitches. The next year, refs were told to start calling more defensive holding/pass interference calls, and they have.

It isn't a coincidence that since that game, both Manning and Brady have (and will in Brady's case) broken the single-season passing TD record. 

EDIT: It's not whining about the rules, it's just showing that people are comparing apples to super-steroid hormone-modified apples. Bradshaw played during a run-heavy era, on a run-heavy team with some great vertical receivers. Romo is playing on a pass-heavy team, with a pass-happy offensive coordinator, and in a conference that is known to be weak as fuck, with a set of rules that make passing offensives much more pervasive.

Romo is good. He's got about 5 more years of similar production before people should be comparing him to Bradshaw, Favre, Manning, Brady, Montana or any of the other hall-of-famers.

[Rasix]

Whining about rules is for losers.

No one's whining about the rules.  Why are you so fucking emo about football?  No one's insulting the Cowboys so if that's part of the bellyaching, please take it off the table.

There are rule changes that have led to the proliferation of the passing attack in today's game.  That's not whining, that's a simple fact.   Yes, receivers are bigger and stronger today and the tight end is playing a role.  That is also a fact.   There is some causality  with the later here.  Emphasis on a DB is now quickness and speed since the amount of contact they have has been reduced.  Tight ends are more productive because they're not getting destroyed by linebackers outside of the 5 yard area. 

It's not merely that we're living in the age of golden armed super studs and freakishly gifted wide receivers, we've made an environment where they're allowed to thrive.  There's a bit of both and one one here is whining about the rules or discounting how good some of the players are.  It's just that they're putting up stats that have little basis for comparison with a lot of the offensive production of years past due to some of these issues.

Edit: Haem said basically the same thing I did.  Haem and I agree, that should be enough for you.

[stray]

Whining about rules is for losers.

No one's whining about the rules.  Why are you so fucking emo about football?  No one's insulting the Cowboys so if that's part of the bellyaching, please take it off the table.

I'm Emo cuz monkeys piss me off.

Also, the Cowboys aren't being singled out in what I'm talking about here. Don't take it way. I mentioned them, sure, but I didn't exclude anyone else. I'd mention other well rounded teams besides the Boys, Pats, Colts, but I just want to keep it brief. Also, those teams do have some of the best records, so why not.

 Yes, receivers are bigger and stronger today and the tight end is playing a role.  That is also a fact.

Thank you. We can compromise then.

[naum]

Another game evolution thing is the whole OLB/DE pass rusher v. LT (or RT if QB is lefthanded…)…

Good offensive tackles are now paid on par with skill positions in large part because of Lawrence Taylor and other pass rush monsters whose specialty was serving up QB plasterings…

[stray]

By the way, I'm not comparing Romo to Bradshaw. I haven't seen enough of Bradshaw's games to be honest. I'm just repeating what Bradshaw said himself. Take it up with him. I'm just shocked that Romo has already surpassed a stat from a guy like that just in this season alone. Hence, why I said: Wtf? Aikman's another one who pointed out being trumped in regular season stats (granted, he didn't factor in Emmit).

[Paelos]

So in all seriousness is anyone going to watch the MNF game tonight? Any predictions on an outcome?

I'll check it out in the first half and see how it goes. I'm guessing NO on top 13-10.

[Rasix]

So in all seriousness is anyone going to watch the MNF game tonight?

Even with my wife out of town and the possibility of tennis getting rained out? No.

I'd rather binge on the 360 or finally go back and beat Persona 3. 

Hell, I'd rather fix my sprinklers or put up Christmas lights.  This game is going to suck.  MNF is such epic fail this year.

[Sky]

Romo is good. He's got about 5 more years of similar production before people should be comparing him to Bradshaw, Favre, Manning, Brady, Montana or any of the other hall-of-famers.

I agree. I love watching Romo play, because he plays like the greats...right now. Good stuff. But that's the first part of the equation, the second is consistency over a few seasons.

I think Romo's biggest problem will start after Dallas loses a few back to back games and T.O. has an ego meltdown. I'm not sold on T.O. suddenly being Jerry Rice-like.

[HaemishM]

So in all seriousness is anyone going to watch the MNF game tonight?

Why the fuck would I want to do that? Both teams are done. At least Atlanta has an excuse for sucking so much cock this year, New Orleans is just fail given form. I'd rather staple my nuts to the back of a drag racer on the starting line. Rasix is right, MNF is mega epic fail this season, and not just because of Kornhole.

[El Gallo]

I need Warrick Dunn to scrape together 7 fantasy points so my sister-in-law beats my cousin and I can back into my family FF playoffs despite losing 5 out of my last 6 games.  I'll watch until then (please do it early).  Fuck Jerious Norwood.  Until next week when, if I make it in, I'll probably have to start him.

[WayAbvPar]

I will probably keep one eye on the game tonight as I try to rebuild my decimated poker bankroll. The best part about watching it in the poker room is I can't hear Kornheiser.

[Trippy]

By the way, I'm not comparing Romo to Bradshaw. I haven't seen enough of Bradshaw's games to be honest. I'm just repeating what Bradshaw said himself. Take it up with him. I'm just shocked that Romo has already surpassed a stat from a guy like that just in this season alone. Hence, why I said: Wtf? Aikman's another one who pointed out being trumped in regular season stats (granted, he didn't factor in Emmit).

What surprised me about Romo breaking that record was that he broke a Danny White record not a Troy Aikman record. I just assumed that Troy had that one. As for the Bradshaw thing other's have mentioned that he played on a run-oriented team, just like they are now. Heck one year both Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier had 1000 yard rushing seasons (back when 1000 yards in a season meant something not like today with the expanded 16 game schedule). Bradshaw had contemporaries like Fran Tarkington and Dan Fouts who were much more prolific passers so it wasn't like the 70s was totally devoid of a passing game even with the much more defense-friendly passing rules. That's also one of the reasons why Lynn Swann is having such a hard time getting into the Hall of Fame. Despite his legendary acrobatic catches he simply didn't have the career numbers even compared to receivers of his era.

[Sauced]

Swann was inducted in 2001.  Crazy acrobatic catches in multiple Super Bowls will do that for you, I guess.

[naum]

I need >8 FP from Dunn tonight to advance to FFL playoffs. That's a very dicey proposition, perhaps 20% chance? Even if I get in the top 4 (is a money league), Bush is one of my backs and he's toast for the season, though he hasn't exactly lived up to his 2nd round selection status very much this season.

On Swann (and Stallworth): he stretched the field for Rocky and Franco. Teams threw less but deeper and the threat seeded the running game.

[Trippy]

Swann was inducted in 2001.  Crazy acrobatic catches in multiple Super Bowls will do that for you, I guess.

Oh he did, what do you know. I just remember he had such a hard time at first cause his numbers were so low (though they were team records for the Steelers).

[JackOnTheMap]

The Romosexuals in this thread are great. Nice to see them all come out of the closet though. BE PROUD!!

That Pats game in the snow made Bill Polion so mad that he was the one that pressured the rules committee (that he is a member of BTW) to make the 5-yard-contact penalty so strict. Funny how he only really goes after rule changes that will directly affect his own team. I'll bet if they were more defensive-minded, things would be different.
I guess it's one thing to break a rule but another to get them changed in your own favor from within.

An Indy GM should not be allowed to be on a n NFL rules committee. Period.

[stray]

Come out of the closet? The two Cowboys fans here are from Texas. We've been that way since our mothers conceived us.

As for rules, I say it's funny that you only attack the three teams that are kicking everyone else's asses.

[Sky]

I love it when first-time posters insult the old-timers. It always turns out well.

 

[stray]

Oops. My bad.. He attacked just two teams.

Still though. Indy is defensive minded. I don't know wtf you're talking about there.

[WayAbvPar]

LOL at Bobby Petrino getting the fuck out of Dodge. Rats off a sinking ship.

[stray]

Man, that's fucking sad.

[Rasix]

I didn't think anyone could go lower than Nick Saban.   

[Paelos]

LOL at Bobby Petrino getting the fuck out of Dodge. Rats off a sinking ship.

He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even though I'm a Cowboys fan living in Atlanta, it still sort of pissed me off that the Falcons hired him in the first place. This is a predominantly black town with a predominatly black fanbase for the team. Do the right thing and hire a black coach. I think Emmitt Thomas is a great choice from his years of assistant experience.

[stray]

Does Emmit even want to coach?

Hell, do any former running backs want to coach?