Spacetime Studios announces: Blackstar

[SnakeCharmer]

See it here.


Edit:  Removed lots of speculation and hyperbole.  Announcement made today.

[UnSub]

I'm beginning to think that IP is likely over costly and limiting in what it either allows MMOs to do or allows fans to accept.

So who cares if this is set in the Wing Commander universe? Call it Space Captain Online and you've still got all the room you need to make a great space combat MMO.

It'll be interesting to see more info on this game.

[Trippy]

EA owns the Wing Commander copyrights and trademarks.

[sam, an eggplant]

EA owns the IP. It's a non-starter.

Edit: Dammit, trippy beat me to it.

[Triforcer]

Gary Gattis -  original SWG.
Brandon Reinhart - Was GreenMarine from SWG.
Jeff Freeman - SWG  fame.
Anthony L. Sommers - Original SWG team,
Cinco Barnes - Original SWG team,
Niklas “Swede” Johansson - Worked on SWG
Eli Holding - SWG  designer

 

[stray]

Actually, the creator of the WC games (Chris Roberts) once set out to do this after he left Origin. That game was Freelancer. Could have been cool! Not sure what the details are, but his company ended up getting acquired by MS during development, and he ended up just bailng entirely. He hasn't come back to the game industry since.

Anyways... I agree with Triforcer.

[5150]

I've always wanted a Wing Commander MMO (as well as a Battletech one) - actually I take that back, years ago (before MMO's) my first preference would have been for a 'managment' Wing Commander with resource managment etc (WC: Armada didn't cut the mustard for me)

I'm just not sure if it would 'work' - you either need to do a 'Privateer 2: Darkening' and set it 'somewhere else' or throw the established timeline out of the window (to get 3 sided PvP you'd have to set it in the Prophecy period where the Cats were a shadow of their former selves (and a small lack of homeworld problem, although the Klingons got over that so I guess the Cats could too)

[Sky]

I'm not so hasty to agree with Triforcer. Were any of those guys involved with JtL? Because that was pretty awesome. My bets would be on them taking the feedback about the one good part of SWG and running with it. Can they make an entire game around it without getting all AA? Guess we'll see.

Shit, I'd settle for a good Privateer sequel. Or WC or TIE Fighter or...a good fucking space sim for crissakes. It's been too damned long and I want to explore Barnard's Star!

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm not so hasty to agree with Triforcer. Were any of those guys involved with JtL?

All of them were, pretty much.

Because that was pretty awesome. My bets would be on them taking the feedback about the one good part of SWG and running with it. Can they make an entire game around it without getting all AA? Guess we'll see.

From what I could gleem from reading Reinharts blog, they have ground combat built in.

Shit, I'd settle for a good Privateer sequel. Or WC or TIE Fighter or...a good fucking space sim for crissakes. It's been too damned long and I want to explore Barnard's Star!

It's definately a scifi / space themed MMO.

Could EA have sold the WC rights back to Garriott?

[Jade Falcon]

Wasn't Jeff the team lead for JtL? I might have that wrong but am pretty sure he at the least worked on it.

Regardless how badly some of those above names messed up the ground game they did a good job with the JtL expantion.Probably the only thing in SWG that ever worked.

[SnakeCharmer]

Wasn't Jeff the team lead for JtL?

I believe so, if not the team lead, then definately one of the top dogs. 

The JtL expansion is probably SWGs shining moment, easily the least broken / most polished thing they did. 

[Calandryll]

Yea, most of those guys worked on JTL, many of them were leads on it. I only worked with them very briefly while I was at SOE, but the fact that they're working on a space mmog is a very good thing imo.

[Mrbloodworth]

Richard Garriott talks about Spacetime Studios in his Gamasutra interview:

February 26, 2007

GS: Tell me, what is Spacetime Studios working on for NCSoft? [The company has signed a deal with NCSoft for an MMO, but almost no information has been released on it.] What can we know?

RG: Well, one thing I can say is that they're in Austin, Texas. And most other companies in Austin, I would say two-thirds or more, are ex-Origin companies. And the founding members of Spacetime, most of their previous work was with games like Star Wars Galaxies for Sony, and most of that group's previous work was on the Wing Commander  team back at Origin.

So it's a team we know the members of very well. We know their skillsets very well. I think they're one of the premier development groups in the world, generally doing things associated with sci-fi and space travel. And those guys are working in the general area of their comfort zone, and embracing the next generation of sci-fi games. So I have really high confidence in the team, but the details of the game are still secret.

GS: Besides that it's sci-fi!

RG: [laughs] And I think we actually haven't made that official before, but that's okay! But yeah, these guys are a really experienced development team. A lot of the principles of their design philosophy they can repeat easily. And they've done some really innovative stuff already.

GS: Let's get a little design-philosophical, if you don't mind, regarding the concept of an MMO in space. What can we do beyond what we've seen historically, beyond running around grass and hitting guys with swords and magic? How do you get beyond those standards and create an experience that is still an MMO, that takes advantage of space and sci-fi?

RG: I think one of the biggest challenges of space-based MMOs, or even something like Auto Assault, which used cars [is that] vehicles of any kind represent a whole other tier of challenge. Because then you have to have not only interact personally, but then you have to also get in a vehicle. And the vehicle presents movements issues, and now different combat issues. And I want to make sure that my personal character comes through in vehicular combat, in a way that seems consistent and relevant with the hand-to-hand game.

It's almost like taking two whole games and marrying them. In fact, I don't know how familiar you are with Ultima, but even then I used to have 2D outdoors, 3D dungeons, and sometimes 3D towns. All these different modes of operation that were really different games, that multiplied the complexity. So that, actually is the biggest challenge, is how to marry them and not either A) double the work, or B) fail on one side or the other, make one of them the one you invest your time and effort into and the other one superfluous.

I think the Spacetime guys are the right people for this challenge, in that this is the same problem they've been facing for twenty years. And I think they have some really outstanding ideas, especially now that the team's unbridled from previous intellectual property that had its own rules. They can create a game purely based on what the gameplay should be, and not based on needing to include components that support a particular IP.

GS: So the space sci-fi MMO that Spacetime is working on is an original IP.

RG: Pretty much everything that NCSoft does is new IP. Which brings me to another interesting story that you might enjoy! Origin was also about new IP, almost never licensed IP, and we think that that's important on a couple of levels. When a new genre or new platform exists, and there's no competition, in my mind there's no reason not to have new IP.

If you're the only cool fantasy role-playing game, people will buy it. And you now become the original IP. And so you've now created a sequelable intellectual property that you own, that you can then resell, you can license…you become the hub of the value.

However, later in the cycle, when you've already got your Ultima and your Might & Magic and you're going to do yet another Ultima game, you need Dungeons & Dragons or Lord of the Rings to separate you from the now hundreds of competitors.

The downside of that is, if you don't own the IP, you can't sequel it, you can't license it, you can't do anything else. So it's a one-shot deal that you can hopefully make some money off of. For example, going to Sony with their experience on, say, Star Wars Galaxies. They'll go, 'Well, it was cool to use it,' but they can't sequel it. And they split the profits, and so I think at that point they start thinking that original IPs are a better idea.

Read the entire interview here.

[schild]

I've met and drank with a number of the people that ended up at Spacetime.

And I mean this in the nicest way.

STOP HIRING MMOG DESIGNERS TO MAKE MMOGS.

THEY FORGOT WHAT FUN WAS ABOUT 8 CORPSE-HUMPINGS BACK.

[SnakeCharmer]

Now, the fun part of waiting 3 years to announce, and another 5 years to live.  

Because, you know, someone else may copy it and beat them to the market by 2 years.

[schild]

Who cares when it's announced or when it goes live. No one should be hyping jack shit. There's a reason stuff isn't announced in Japan until it's 75% done.

[Trippy]

Could EA have sold the WC rights back to Garriott?

No. EA released Wing Commander Arena for Xbox Live this year.

[SnakeCharmer]

I've met and drank with a number of the people that ended up at Spacetime.

And I mean this in the nicest way.

STOP HIRING MMOG DESIGNERS TO MAKE MMOGS.

THEY FORGOT WHAT FUN WAS ABOUT 8 CORPSE-HUMPINGS BACK.

Because you absolutely know what fun is for 99.99 percent of the rest of us? 

Which is why, of course, you run a website talking about games, rather than, um, actually making them.

[Sky]

Shit, I'd settle for a good Privateer sequel. Or WC or TIE Fighter or...a good fucking space sim for crissakes. It's been too damned long and I want to explore Barnard's Star!

It's definately a scifi / space themed MMO.

I did not say MMO. :) Single playah, yo.

However, this nascent mmo has definite potential.

[WindupAtheist]

Because you absolutely know what fun is for 99.99 percent of the rest of us? 

Which is why, of course, you run a website talking about games, rather than, um, actually making them.

But dude, if you give him a thousand bucks he'll predict the review scores and everything!

PS:  Twitch.

[Mrbloodworth]

I think schild secretly plays every MMO there is, but doesn't want to feel dirty by telling us.

[schild]

I have played every MMO there is. And anyone who's been here since launch (f13's launch) knows that. Also, I play new ones. No, i don't talk about it 99% of the time. Also, korean ones and wonky chinese and japanese ones.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have played every MMO there is. And anyone who's been here since launch (f13's launch) knows that. Also, I play new ones. No, i don't talk about it 99% of the time. Also, korean ones and wonky chinese and japanese ones.

Dirty. Curious, what was your all time fav?


(My list is quite large as well)

[Slayerik]

I have played every MMO there is. And anyone who's been here since launch (f13's launch) knows that. Also, I play new ones. No, i don't talk about it 99% of the time. Also, korean ones and wonky chinese and japanese ones.

Dirty. Curious, what was your all time fav?


(My list is quite large as well)

"The list is long but distiguished"

"Yeah, well, so is my johnson."

[Mrbloodworth]

I have played every MMO there is. And anyone who's been here since launch (f13's launch) knows that. Also, I play new ones. No, i don't talk about it 99% of the time. Also, korean ones and wonky chinese and japanese ones.

Dirty. Curious, what was your all time fav?


(My list is quite large as well)

"The list is long but distiguished"

"Yeah, well, so is my johnson."

heh.

[Venkman]

If you're posting in this thread, chances are you've played at least 15 MMOs in your time, whether you were a lurker here or part of the small contingent of Lum diaspora folks. And if you're still posting here (outside of the guy who feels the need to even though he hates the genre to date), you still have hope that something else is going to come along and do things "right", for you, and not for the CokeBunnyPenguin generation that's replacing us.

I don't care what this game is called. If it's JTL with a wotking ground-game, it'll be worth a check-out alone. That's not hyping that it'll be Robot Jesus. It's just hyping uniqueness. Outside of Jumpgate, SWG space portions and Vendetta Online, there just aren't really any space-sim MMOs. And way-too-much-time Eve has them all beat as a self-consistent immersive experience, even with it's different flight mechanics.

So we need more. Good or bad, another attempt is worth it.

[Mrbloodworth]

If you're posting in this thread, chances are you've played at least 15 MMOs in your time, whether you were a lurker here or part of the small contingent of Lum diaspora folks. And if you're still posting here (outside of the guy who feels the need to even though he hates the genre to date), you still have hope that something else is going to come along and do things "right", for you, and not for the CokeBunnyPenguin generation that's replacing us.

I don't care what this game is called. If it's JTL with a wotking ground-game, it'll be worth a check-out alone. That's not hyping that it'll be Robot Jesus. It's just hyping uniqueness. Outside of Jumpgate, SWG space portions and Vendetta Online, there just aren't really any space-sim MMOs. And way-too-much-time Eve has them all beat as a self-consistent immersive experience, even with it's different flight mechanics.

So we need more. Good or bad, another attempt is worth it.

And it better be twitch.

[Sky]

I imagine it would be at least as twitchy as JtL, and that was a pretty cool subgame. I don't think you need any more 'ground game' than something like Privateer, some stations to walk around in and get missions, interact with other players, and do mercantile type stuff. Maybe some missions based out of a carrier group, you could walk around the carrier too, but that would interfere with the ability to blow it up real nice.

[Mrbloodworth]

I imagine it would be at least as twitchy as JtL, and that was a pretty cool subgame. I don't think you need any more 'ground game' than something like Privateer, some stations to walk around in and get missions, interact with other players, and do mercantile type stuff. Maybe some missions based out of a carrier group, you could walk around the carrier too, but that would interfere with the ability to blow it up real nice.

My dream is Twitch based space, and ground game. Capital ships with interiors, and player factions... Full run of support classes (with full uses) and combat. + Resourcing (and the ability to do so is part of the political territory game).

/drool

[schild]

See, you assume I hate the genre. No, I don't hate the genre. It's the most promising and interesting genre in gaming. It just happens that, somehow, the designers in the field feel the need to shit where they work.

That's not my fault.

[Jade Falcon]

I imagine it would be at least as twitchy as JtL, and that was a pretty cool subgame. I don't think you need any more 'ground game' than something like Privateer, some stations to walk around in and get missions, interact with other players, and do mercantile type stuff. Maybe some missions based out of a carrier group, you could walk around the carrier too, but that would interfere with the ability to blow it up real nice.

If it's just going to be landing to get/turn in missions and sell crap why waste the resources on it?

If there's one thing that has annoyed me too no end in either single player or mmo sci-fi games is the need for me to fly/drive/teleport half way across the galaxy to tell some slob his foozles were wacked/protected/delivered just so they can send me right back where I was.They can make faster then light travel but radio transmission tech escapes them?

Not sure I'd want to see huge static planets like SWG tried, just too many resources involved in making them any good,but either smaller worlds or instanceing for the missions seems like it would be doable and give them the ability too make more smaller areas that are more diverse.

[Yegolev]

Space flight and role-oriented, RPG-style combat? Can it be done? It can indeed and it kicks serious ass. Freeform ship control, ground combat, abilities, and weapon fire?

I read this as ships with classes and levels, with WASD ship control.  I predict fighter/thief/cleric IN SPAAAAACE.

This is not the fault of the nice Spacetime people I met, I'm sure.  I'll remain optimistic for now.

[Sky]

Yeah, there's definitely a possibility of this going wrong, especially with 'established' devs. You start jamming diku classes into Wing Commander and things will get ugly.

Some roles make sense. Tank, your big heavy fighter. DPS, your agile missile ship. Thief, your stealth fighter. Of course, why even address them in the traditional terms when the groundwork was laid ten years ago anyway?

Now I want to go play a good space flight sim, dammit.

Imo, ground game would ruin it. Too difficult to do both, you're basically making two entire games on one budget. Dunno how they managed it with JtL, but even that needed more fleshing out. Now...if you made it so this new space flight mmo dovetailed into the tabula rasa ground game...maybe. But I still think it's a bad idea to try anything beyond space stations.

[Yegolev]

Are you saying it might be cool to drop bombs from orbit on Tabula Rasa?

[Mrbloodworth]

See, you assume I hate the genre. No, I don't hate the genre. It's the most promising and interesting genre in gaming. It just happens that, somehow, the designers in the field feel the need to shit where they work.

That's not my fault.

I can understand this.