(SPOILERS) John from Cincinnatti

[Morfiend]

Ok, I didnt want to drop these in the other TV thread, but wanted to talk about Johns speech from the end of the last episode. Here is the transcript.

This was from the HBO insider.

John's extraordinary speech at the end of the episode is bound to trigger much discussion. I'm not in a position to enter that fray, but I can say this: all but a couple of John's statements will make sense to anyone who follows the show, listens closely and think it through.

Below is the transcript.

"If my words are yours, can you hear my Father? Can Bill know my Father, keeping his eye on me? Can I bone Kai and Butchie know my Father instead?

"My Father's shy doing his business. Kai helps my Father dump out. Bill takes a shot. Shaunie is much improved.

"Joe is a Doubting Thomas. Joe will save Not-Aleman. Joe will bring his buddies home. This is how Freddy relaxes. Cup-o'joe, and Winchell's variety dozen.

"Mitch catches a good wave. Mitch wipes out. Mitch wipes out Cissy. Cissy shows Butchie how to do that. Cissy wipes Butchie out. Butchie hurts Barry's head. Mister Rollins comes in Barry's face. My Father runs the Mega-Millions.

"Fur is big. Mud is big. The stick is big. The word is big. Fire is huge. The wheel is huge. The line and circle are big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. On the wall, the man at the wall makes a man from the circle and line. The man at the wall makes a Word on the wall from the circle and line. The Word on the wall hears my Father.

"The zeroes and ones make the Word in Cass's camera. In the Word on the wall that hears my-Father-in-Cass's-camera, the good one Mitch catches doesn't wipe Cissy out. In the-Word-that-hears-my-Father, Cissy shows Butchie something else. In-my-Father's-Word, Cissy shows Butchie in Shaun. In-my-Father's-Word, Tina raises Shaun at lunch. In Cass's-camera, Butchie lays the court out for Barry, and Mister Rollins watches, and he doesn't come on Barry's face. In Cass's-camera, Butchie knows Kai kept the faith. In-my-Father's-Word, the Wave lifts them up.

"In Cass's camera, Bill doesn't bump his head on the stairs. In Cass's-camera, as long as he's being stupid, Bill gives Lois a kiss.

"In His-Word-in-Cass's-camera, the Internet is big. Nine-Eleven is big, but not every towel-head is eradicated. In His-Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen.

"In my-Father's-Word, Bill sees how Freddy relaxes. In Cass's-camera, Ramon wants to know who's hungry, in the courtyard and Room Forty-Five.

"In my-Father's-Word-to-come-in-Cass's-camera, Doctor Smith calls Ocean Properties. In Cass's-camera-to-come, my Father stares Not Aleman down, and Freddy sees Bill much-improved.

"You will not note my-Father's-Word, nor remember Cass's-camera, but you will not forget what we did here."

[kaid]

I still cannot decide if I like this show or not. I guess that would depend if I have a flaming clue what the heck is going on most of the time which typically I don't.

[Viin]

I still cannot decide if I like this show or not. I guess that would depend if I have a flaming clue what the heck is going on most of the time which typically I don't.

Roger that.

[MrHat]

He's Jesus.

Edit: In those 10 years or so between child and prophet.

[SnakeCharmer]

Um.
What?

[Reg]

John from Cincinnatti is J.C.? Good guess! :)

[MrHat]

John from Cincinnatti is J.C.? Good guess! :)

Now I just feel dumb.  I didn't even connect that. :(

Edit to clarify:  Basically, he talks alot about his father having a design and he heals peeps and himself.  He's also told a couple characters to see God.

[Johny Cee]

He's Jesus.

Edit: In those 10 years or so between child and prophet.

I was of the opinion,  after the first couple episodes,  he was John the Baptist and Shaunie was Jesus.  But that seems to be shot out of the water by the last episode.... 

Unless John is the Holy Ghost and Shaun is the Son.

I've seen some other interesting speculation....  Mitch as the Pharisees concerned with the trappings of spirituality more then spirituality, Cass as Mary Magdalene (which would support a John as Jesus theory), etc.

Great imagery in this show,  and Milch likes to fuck around with novel or old techniques.  Sometimes this doesn't work.  Swearengen in Deadwood had some of the greatest modern monologues you'll ever see,  but Al Bundy is pretty meh.

Really like the fact that so many actors are showing up I recognize from small parts in other shows.  The lawyer was the nerdy recurring character from Stargate,  Freddy's henchmen was pretty good in the Invisible Man...

[Righ]

http://jfc.wikia.com/index.php?title=What_was_John%27s_cookout_speech_about%3F&t=20070722171131

[Johny Cee]

http://jfc.wikia.com/index.php?title=What_was_John%27s_cookout_speech_about%3F&t=20070722171131

Thanks Righ!  Going to read it now.

[Abagadro]

From a recent review, pretty much sums it up:

What the hell is going on? Every time I watch it, I feel like I just took some 15-year-old acid I found at the bottom of my sock drawer. Is it just me, or do none of these scenes fit together coherently?

[Signe]

I think I might have liked it better before it seemed to go all Jesus-y last episode.

[Typhon]

In His-Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen.

My understanding was that John wasn't from Cincinnati, but somewhere much more remote.  If that rumor is correct, I'd say that (given the obvious spirituality) John is more of a advance scout/emissary from a race that has a better connection with what it takes to "See God, Kai" then we do.

The recitation of technological advances is somewhat reminicent of 2001, in my opinion (more of a parallel though, I don't think it's being implied that John's race has been helping mankind).

[Sky]

I think I might have liked it better before it seemed to go all Jesus-y last episode.

On the recommendations of folks here, I watched the show. That was the first episode I saw. I don't think I'll bother with another. That was crazytarded.

High point: Charlie Utter on sax imo.

[Morfiend]

I think I might have liked it better before it seemed to go all Jesus-y last episode.

On the recommendations of folks here, I watched the show. That was the first episode I saw. I don't think I'll bother with another. That was crazytarded.

High point: Charlie Utter on sax imo.

I dont think this is the kind of show you can jump in to and just "get", specially that episode, since the previous 4 episodes had been building up to John doing some thing "different".

[Samwise]

I've never heard of this show, but based on the comments in this thread I think I'm going to have to check it out.  Am I right in thinking that it's crazytarded in sort of the same way that Carnivale was?  I'm so there if it is.

[CmdrSlack]

Given the heavy dose of pretty obvious Jesus allegory, don't watch it if you're one of those people who gets all retarded about people who believe in God.

I have read some of the stuff at that linked fan site, and having seen all the episodes so far, I don't really see how it's anything but that...MAYBE something more along the lines of John the Baptist than Jesus, but shit, I said to my wife in the episode where the doctor quits his job, "See, there's just yet another random person who will now follow John around and do stuff." It seemed like it was building to twelve core disciples and others filling other roles.

It's pretty cool either way, but YMMV. For the atheist and a dick about it crowd, better to just avoid it if anything vaguely related to the Christian faith that doesn't make fun of it bothers you. Watch Big Love instead and laugh at the crazy fundies.

[Morfiend]

I was raised Athesist/Spiritual if that makes sense.

I love good religious stories, I just take them as 100% fiction, and find them enjoyable. I personally got the feeling that John was some sort of JC reborn. My girlfriend thinks that the Mexican guy, the Lawyer and the Gay guy who won the lottery are the 3 Wise Men.

[Abagadro]

I really don't think he is Jesus. Way too pat. I like the alien idea better, but I think he may be just a corporeal representation of "creativity".

[Signe]

I really don't think he is Jesus. Way too pat. I like the alien idea better, but I think he may be just a corporeal representation of "creativity".

I'm hoping it's not that simple, too, and I'm still rather intrigued.  I certainly won't stop watching.  I have to know.

[MrHat]

I have to know.

But they'll never tell us.

[Tebonas]

Given the heavy dose of pretty obvious Jesus allegory, don't watch it if you're one of those people who gets all retarded about people who believe in God.

I have read some of the stuff at that linked fan site, and having seen all the episodes so far, I don't really see how it's anything but that...MAYBE something more along the lines of John the Baptist than Jesus, but shit, I said to my wife in the episode where the doctor quits his job, "See, there's just yet another random person who will now follow John around and do stuff." It seemed like it was building to twelve core disciples and others filling other roles.

It's pretty cool either way, but YMMV. For the atheist and a dick about it crowd, better to just avoid it if anything vaguely related to the Christian faith that doesn't make fun of it bothers you. Watch Big Love instead and laugh at the crazy fundies.

So I can't watch Horror movies when I don't believe in Werewolves?

You have quite the persecution complex there.

[CmdrSlack]

So I can't watch Horror movies when I don't believe in Werewolves?

You have quite the persecution complex there.

Uh, nope that's not what I was saying at all.  I was just saying, "If god/jesus allegory bothers you deeply, don't watch the show."  Nothing more. Given the track record of some atheists here, I figured it was fair warning to them.

Glad to see your knee still jerks well though, I'm sure your physician will be pleased at your next physical.

[Ironwood]

That doesn't really answer the question tho :  Do you believe in Werewolves ?

[Tebonas]

You still miss the point, though.

Being retarded about people who believe in god has nothing at all to do with which works of FICTION you enjoy.

For unbelievers there is no difference between the pretense that there is a Vampire Slayer called Buffy and the pretense that there is Jesus Christ.


(Not saying that Jesus Christ is actually pretense, I neither know nor care one way or the other)

[CmdrSlack]

I get that point, actually.

I also get the impression that some people here are bothered by the pervasiveness of god/jesus stuff in popular media. If you read the always-fun-slapfights in politics, then I'd say that's a reasonably easy impression to get. ETA -- Point being, if it really bothers them as badly as it seems, then maybe not watching the show would save some annoyance.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, but thats what politics is for. I still hold the opinion that most of us just dive in there for the heck of it and are pretty reasonable otherwise.  :-D

[CmdrSlack]

Yeah, I guess that makes for a healthier worldview. 

[Furiously]

I think Ironwood asked a question....

[CmdrSlack]

I used to until I didn't see one in the local Trader Vic's. On Halloween.

[Signe]

Look how many people enjoyed that Narnia book and movie.  That's just God stuff, too, no?  It wasn't even clever.  If this show stays clever and gives us well thought out twists and puzzles, I'll stay interested.  If, at some point, they simply tell us, "Hey!  Look!  It's only Jesus again!" I'll be cranky.  I don't have that many shows I watch that are actually entertaining in a different way(from CSI and that lot)... John from Cincinnati, Dexter, Deadwood, Heroes, maybe a few more... I always hope they keep up the good work til the end.  Unfortunately, they usually go off track somewhere towards the end.  I'll like them until they fuck up then I'll send them a mean email and wander off.

[Ironwood]

Bear in mind the size of the Bible :  It's more than likely anything you watch on TV has some parallel there somewhere.

Not that it matters. 

[Xanthippe]

It's like Deadwood only with surfboards.

The dialog is like Deadwood, many of the people are from Deadwood.  Are the writers from there too?

[Abagadro]

They don't say cocksucker enough though.

[Tannhauser]

Show's been cancelled.

They quit Deadwood for this?