Vanguard chatter

[CharlieMopps]

People are paying for it. Someone therefore thinks they're doing something right. That it's survived and is generating some amount of revenue is a shocker of course, but there it is.

Some people still buy Micheal Jackson albumbs. 

[Strazos]

At least from what I saw, you don't Actually manipulate NPC reactions using Diplomacy. From what I could tell, you have to play a contrived card game to complete the Diplomacy quests; the cards did not seem to have an actual effect on the dialogue. Rather, "winning" the game simply advanced the chatter in the right direction.

Also, housing and crafting shit for houses, and by extension boats....never understood the point, unless these things serve an actual purpose besides item storage.

[Kageru]

Agree, the only point of housing is another recall point... but I'm not into paying virtual rent. The requirements for the guild hall meanwhile are a staggering orgy of grinding such that it horrifies me people have done it.

And from memory diplomacy stories will follow the same sequence regardless of the state of the gameplay... they just end a lot earlier if you lose. So at a certain point you generally stop reading them and just play the silly little card game.

[Simond]

I don't understand them sometimes. They actually think all of the stuff in this game is actually awesome.

Vanguard boxes are back on the shelves at full price in my local EB. Earlier this year, they were trying to flog them off at half-price.

Is someone able to explain this shitpile to me? Oooo, healers can also do damage, big deal.

It's high fantasy (AD&D nerdity as opposed to WoW's pulp fiction), with an ambitious attempt at "next generation" systems. You don't just talk to quest NPCs, you manipulate their reactions in a subgame. You don't just do special moves, you do combos that can lead to other combos. You don't just craft, you chop down trees, work the wood, make the glue, and your chair assembly fails. The chair was for the house you crafted on the land you bought on the island you sailed to in your crafted boat.

Or you could just play EQ2 instead, which has spent the better part of three years expunging as much of their oringinal McQuaidian Vision(tm) as they could.

Honestly, the first time I heard someone describe the VG tradeskill system my response was "Isn't this the exact same thing as the original EQ2 crafting system which SOE just overhauled because it was brainmeltingly tedious and also sucked?"

The art director died IRL.

That is the real tragedy of Vanguard - the final work of Keith Parkinson (who did so much  fantasy art in his lifetime) is such a crappy, soulless game full of bad art. It'd be like a good actor having his last film be "Streetfighter" or something. No, hang on....

Then somehow it became a game.

Only in the broadest possible sense of the word. 

[Lucas]

Sorry if I stray a little off-topic, but regarding the subscription numbers, I noticed the bad mouthing, usually consisting of deep anal remarks involving proctologists, which that Sir Bruce fella is constantly getting. I know him because of the infamous mmogchart website I visited from time to time, but I was wondering if he has ever been at the center of some typical Intarweb DRAMA or what...

In other words, please don't let me waste precious minutes of my useless life to dig up something from google 

Please? 

[bhodi]

That's a door you really don't want to open. Maybe I should post an old irc log I have of him back in the #p2p.net days. Nah. Best to forget. I'll just comment without citing examples, since I don't really want to remember again.

He has (had?) a habit of being an annoying shitcock on boards by pointless argument, poor reasoning and a creepy, stalker-like mentality. He used to quote people's posts and do a sentence-by-sentence commentary, so you will from time to time see people accuse others of "SirBrucing" posts -- that is, 4 or 5 quote tags within one post. He had (has?) no social skills or etiquette, so he felt it was perfectly alright to comment about things such as, for example, the size of his cock. Because of all this, he's pretty much been banned from major boards, this one included.

Funny enough, he's got a wiki page, but all of this vital data is mysteriously absent.

[Modern Angel]

Don't forget his investment in WWII Online.

[stray]

Actually, he was tolerated for all of the above until he admitted to screwing his dog. Or wanting to. Or something.

[tkinnun0]

Actually, he was tolerated for all of the above until he admitted to screwing his dog. Or wanting to. Or something.

The problem was always of ends and means. Do you ban an asshole who is right or do you ban 10 fuckers who are wrong but can't help themselves in the presence of an asshole?

[Simond]

Brad McQuaid vs SirBruce on the Vanguard beta boards was highly entertaining, though.

[Mandrel]

Brad McQuaid vs SirBruce on the Vanguard beta boards was highly entertaining, though.

A++++++++++ Would buy again.  Great with 

[cmlancas]

GREAT SUCCESS! 

[Ratman_tf]

That is the real tragedy of Vanguard - the final work of Keith Parkinson (who did so much  fantasy art in his lifetime) is such a crappy, soulless game full of bad art. It'd be like a good actor having his last film be "Streetfighter" or something. No, hang on....

I was doing QA on Vanguard (BACK VAMPIRES!) and was at work when we heard that Keith Parkinson died. I was super-sad because of all the nerdy memories of the art he did for TSR. And all the posters that were on the walls with his art... 

[WindupAtheist]

I think Schild should unban Bruce, just for the LOLs.

[cmlancas]

I hope that becomes your new avatar.   

[schild]

I was doing QA on Vanguard (BACK VAMPIRES!)

YOU WERE THE ONE!

Or did they ramp up? Was your nickname Neo? What was the gimp mask like? Did they feed you every time you found a bug?

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

[UnSub]

I was doing QA on Vanguard (BACK VAMPIRES!)

YOU WERE THE ONE!

Or did they ramp up? Was your nickname Neo? What was the gimp mask like? Did they feed you every time you found a bug?

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

If Ratman was fed every time he found a bug in Vanguard, they must have been stuffing him like he was a pate goose.

[Ratman_tf]

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

It was a temp assignment with Microsoft Game Studios, before the SOE deal.  So you all probably know more of the gossip than I do.

I will say that it was fun to work on a MMOG, and I wouldn't mind doing it again someday. 

[CharlieMopps]

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

It was a temp assignment with Microsoft Game Studios, before the SOE deal.  So you all probably know more of the gossip than I do.

I will say that it was fun to work on a MMOG, and I wouldn't mind doing it again someday. 

Is it normal at Microsoft to only have 1 QA tester on a game?

[Morat20]

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

It was a temp assignment with Microsoft Game Studios, before the SOE deal.  So you all probably know more of the gossip than I do.

I will say that it was fun to work on a MMOG, and I wouldn't mind doing it again someday. 

Is it normal at Microsoft to only have 1 QA tester on a game?

You have used their OS, right?

[shiznitz]

An OS is important. They use 3 for those.

[Simond]

Daisy chain of links time: Here's an old, old Slow News Day post, via The Safehouse and the latest 'lol, Vanguard' thread on FoH. Still  , though:

OK, here's the story I heard, from someone still working at SOE SD. I'll start from a couple of years ago.

Kelly Flock spins off redeye/verant basically to give Smedley an object lesson-- surrounding yourself with talentless friends leads to ruin. Brad McQuaid was, and is, one of Smedley's talentless friends. Smedley is a stand-up guy. He'll always protect his friends... especially when he thinks they're directly responsible for making him a millionaire! Verant, the company, was just enough rope for Smed to hang himself. Kelly Flock assumed Verant would fail and Smed would learn his lesson. It didn't.

Brad McQuaid got lucky.

Prior to 1996, he had developed a shareware RPG in his spare time, and he played the hell out of a popular DIKUmud set in D&D's Forgotten Realms called Sojourn. In 1996, he was in the right place at the right time, and seized the oppurtunity to create a graphical version of his favorite MUD. After years of work with a huge team, with a huge budget, with a huge fanfare, Everquest was released in 1998. It made a gazillion dollars and is still raking in the cash hand over fist this very day.

Things weren't coming up roses at 989/redeye/verant. Brad himself had basically done no work whatsoever since Everquest's release, and many (including Kelly Flock) think he didn't do anything *before* its release. Brad thought of himself as infallible, and Everquest's incredible success, his millions, and his ferrari were all proof of his greatness. Being crowned a "Game @#%$" by PC Gamer didn't help either. His self-aggrandizement cannibalized Verant's customer relations for its entire existance. He insisted on being the sole point of contact with the public to promote his own name, and he did a miserable job.

Just this past week, he released Luclin screenshots without authorization and got incredibly defensive when SOE PR got upset. He sent out an email with a smarmy "I've been doing this for years, and the fact is that the screenshots were fine, people just hate change." His first hire for player relations, Gordon Wrinn, was, unbelievably enough, worse.

But people don't, as a rule, get fired from Verant. They quit. Like the lead graphics programmer, who quit a week after Everquest shipped. And his replacement, Brian Hook, who quit in disgust mere months after being hired. Then another EQ programmer left. And another. Then many others asked to be moved off the team.

(edit: as of today, SOE is beginning a round of layoffs. SOE is losing money. This is probably due more to the advertising crash than the pushed-back release dates, though.)

Smedley thinks everybody's happy because Verant had a low turnover. Even though everybody there is miserable, even the staff artists are making $125k/year and can't find a better job elsewhere.

Some were "promoted" off the team. Like Brad McQuaid. He was moved because they were "borderline ready to revolt". They "hated Brad so much they wanted to puke and constantly bitched about him." Now the EQ Live team is "busy hating Jeff Butler with a passion". Butler is a "major Brad lackey". The factions are split "more like 90:10 on the hate Brad/Jeff vs. like Brad/Jeff side. It was BAD." He is "so hated at Verant that out of a team of 60 people less than 10 would go with him. Probably closer to 5."

Note the quotemarks.

So anyway, Everquest made money like crazy, and Flock admitted his mistake. SOE bought out Verant for a tidy sum and Flock accepted Brad because he thought he was "part of the magic". Today he admitted his mistake. Sony Pictures (SOE's parent company) looked at the balance sheet, and Brad's salary, and the fact that titles kept getting pushed back. They essentially accused Smedley and Brad of lying to them about Verant's condition before the purchase, mainly the ship dates for Sovereign, EQ2, SWG, and Planetside. None of these games will ship before 2003, mostly through gross mismanagement.

Sovereign, for example, is Smed's baby. Smedley is Executive Producer on the project, and the producer is his lackey. The producer has absolutely no experience whatsoever in management. He's a former QA tester, 22 years old. The lead programmer is talented but anal and non-decisive. They already sacked the former lead programmer and two designers. The problem is really Smed, but he'll never admit it.

Anyway, Sony Pictures @#%$ itself, and Kelly Flock, who never liked Brad, feels the heat. In the meeting yesterday, Kelly says "Okay guys, this is @#%$, what the @#%$ are you doing?!" Brad and Smed get flustered, some words are thrown around, accusations are made of Brad being a no-talent weenie, and Brad decides on the spot to leave.

When SOE bought Verant, they gave both Smed and Brad three year contracts. Sony Pictures and Kelly Flock were *so* incensed at the cluster!$!% that is Verant that they basically said "@#%$ it guys, you wanna leave, fine, we need to clean up this mess and you're not going to be much help."

Verant as an entity, much like Origin, no longer exists. It's been disassembled and absorbed into Sony Online Entertainment.

The EQ live and EQ2 teams are in shock. Nobody knew that Brad was going to leave. They heard about it the same time you did.

And that's it.

[geldonyetich2]

Gossip is fun.

[Tale]

But gossip contradicts itself.

Verant, the company, was just enough rope for Smed to hang himself. Kelly Flock assumed Verant would fail and Smed would learn his lesson. It didn't.

So "talentless friend" Brad is supposedly being set up to fail and gets "years of work with a huge team, with a huge budget, with a huge fanfare"? The online market was ripe for a high-profile subscription 3D MUD and EQ had games websites salivating. It was the project everyone wanted to succeed, not fail.

Even though everybody there is miserable, even the staff artists are making $125k/year and can't find a better job elsewhere.

Some were "promoted" off the team. Like Brad McQuaid. He was moved because they were "borderline ready to revolt". They "hated Brad so much they wanted to puke and constantly bitched about him." Now the EQ Live team is "busy hating Jeff Butler with a passion". Butler is a "major Brad lackey". The factions are split "more like 90:10 on the hate Brad/Jeff vs. like Brad/Jeff side. It was BAD." He is "so hated at Verant that out of a team of 60 people less than 10 would go with him. Probably closer to 5."

Most of the major figures from those Verant days keenly followed Brad to Sigil, including said artists.

[shiznitz]

Everquest was released in 1998.

Wrong. March 1999.

[Draegan]

Ahhh Spring Break freshman year of college.  Sad now that I think back on it.

[CharlieMopps]

anyone remember what "Brads" version of EQ1 looked like? It was the worst UI I had ever seen:

[Signe]

This game was dead before it was even released.  It should have gone to the graveyard when they announced production plans.  The thread title should also be changed to "Vanguard Blither."

So there.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm glad Schild clamped down on all the UO and SWG noise so that we could focus on "topical" games like this. 

[Draegan]

anyone remember what "Brads" version of EQ1 looked like? It was the worst UI I had ever seen:

Brad just ripped the UI from Bard's Tale and gameplay from SojournMUD.  The only thing "origonal" about this brain child was the fact it was all 3D.

[K9]

anyone remember what "Brads" version of EQ1 looked like? It was the worst UI I had ever seen:

I never played EQI, any chance of a screenie that isn't in eye-strain-o-vision please? :)

[pants]

Brad just ripped the UI from Bard's Tale and gameplay from SojournMUD.  The only thing "origonal" about this brain child was the fact it was all 3D.

Did he rip off the 8 spell gems limit?  I always thought that brought a useful level of tactics to your gaming, in terms of what spells you would have 'loaded' - especially since these days mmorpgs allow you to have multiple hotbars with every single spell/special attack thingy you want ready to go at the drop of a hat.

Edit - Here is a larger piccy of the original UI



It has to be said, while this UI does suck and only gives you about 60% of the screen actually viewable, there always was an option to go 'fullscreen' which would remove a lot of that crap.  Of course, it was surprising the number of people who played for literally years without knowing about the fullscreen option...

[stu]

Of course, it was surprising the number of people who played for literally years without knowing about the fullscreen option...

That's too funny.

[Lt.Dan]

Not entirely surprising considering almost every RPG to that point looked like that.  Hello Goldbox.

[Simond]

I'm glad Schild clamped down on all the UO and SWG noise so that we could focus on "topical" games like this. 

Don't forget Hellgate! That one even got a forum of its own!!!