Lewtz!

[Jayce]

I have a lack of passion about it too, and I still need stuff from heroics.  I guess executing is just as much fun for me as teh phat l00t, so maybe that's it.

I would like to see a bigger role for crafting though. They seem to forget about it at some point usually. The BOP patterns introduced in BC is a good step in the right direction, but that mechanic seems only used to get fresh <max level>s started in each expansion. I'd like to see them fill gaps like someone here mentioned, albeit with hard to get mats.

[Gobbeldygook]

I would like to see a bigger role for crafting though. They seem to forget about it at some point usually.

But they haven't forgotten it at all.  Every tier of raiding so far has had two craftable pieces.  This tier you can have pants and boots crafted.  In tier 9 it was chest and bracers.

[Selby]

But they haven't forgotten it at all.  Every tier of raiding so far has had two craftable pieces.  This tier you can have pants and boots crafted.  In tier 9 it was chest and bracers.

Can't you actually get 4 this tier?  2 patterns available at honored and 2 available at exalted?

I seriously wish there was craftable gear for the 71-80 run.  The 70 raid patterns were ridiculous materials wise to get once the expansion came out (just like the 80 raid patterns outside of this tier) and the gear that you *could* craft in between was mostly miss.  It was nice if you had *nothing* or had them all for the set bonuses but quest rewards were much cheaper and just as good to use.

[SurfD]

my main problem with the "crafting" bone they like to throw is that 99% of the time, those bones ONLY get thrown to the Big 3: Leatherworing, Blacksmithing and Tailoring.   My Alchemist would KILL for a raid pattern or something.  I mean, sure, we got "freya's bag of random crap", but that does nothing for you when you dont run ulduar any more.   At least they threw a bone to Engineers with the new ammo.

[caladein]

I am surprised they haven't added in more Jewelcrafting or Inscription gear.  Alchemy's sort of in a strange spot (like the previous two) in that everyone still uses the same stuff as before: Flasks, Gems, and Glyphs.  You can throw Enchanting in there as well (save the two Ulduar enchants).

If LW/BS/Tailoring don't get new up-to-date items, they become semi-useless outside of their buffs.

[K9]

But they haven't forgotten it at all.  Every tier of raiding so far has had two craftable pieces.  This tier you can have pants and boots crafted.  In tier 9 it was chest and bracers.

Can't you actually get 4 this tier?  2 patterns available at honored and 2 available at exalted?

There's multiple patterns, but they are only for the leg and boot slots. Generally there's a craftable item for each role at each tier, so LW get 4 leg patterns and 4 boot patterns (leather physical DPS, leather spell, mail spell and mail physical DPS) this tier.

[Dren]

The problem with tokens is that people would only cycle through the easiest dungeons to build up their stash.  Even if the "hard" dungeon was nerfed to the ground, you'd still have people avoiding it like the plague based on rep alone. (Hello, Occulus)

This is happening now already.  Both Occulus and Halls of Stone are avoided like the plague.  I've been in multiple groups that had the tank dump after finding out it is either of these.  Actually, HoS has been more of a pain as of late.  Really any of the instances with fights that require all players to pay attention and contribute or else you wipe are being avoided.

I mean, if people (mostly Tanks) are taking a 15 minute time out just to avoid the instance, there is a problem.

I guess I'm fine with certain bosses dropping certain items, but there comes a time when these instances are farm country.  Drop the pretense and change to what they really are.  Plus, if Blizzard was so gung-ho on making each instance so special, why give such great rewards (2 T-emblems) for selecting random?  They are just doing one thing and saying another.

[Ingmar]

The random reward *encourages* you to play all the instances, rather than just picking your favorite and going to town. It is definitely not at odds with the idea of keeping each instance different.

[Evildrider]

I am surprised they haven't added in more Jewelcrafting or Inscription gear.  Alchemy's sort of in a strange spot (like the previous two) in that everyone still uses the same stuff as before: Flasks, Gems, and Glyphs.  You can throw Enchanting in there as well (save the two Ulduar enchants).

If LW/BS/Tailoring don't get new up-to-date items, they become semi-useless outside of their buffs.

Screw you all!  The only thing I can even try to sell as a Gnome Engineer is the new Arrows from IC.  :(

[Sheepherder]

I mean, if people (mostly Tanks) are taking a 15 minute time out just to avoid the instance, there is a problem.

Yes, they're whiny shits who don't know how to tank.  Learn to play your class, learn the tricks of the trade, and man up.

[Merusk]

I mean, if people (mostly Tanks) are taking a 15 minute time out just to avoid the instance, there is a problem.

Yes, they're whiny shits who don't know how to tank.  Learn to play your class, learn the tricks of the trade, and man up.

This x 10.  If tanks are avoiding Halls of Stone, they simply suck.  I tanked it in This Gear on Sunday, minus the purple shield that I got today.   If I can do it with 3 other undergeared people, one of whom was the healer, anyone sporting a few badge bits can.  People simply want a cakewalk, and bitch when it's not and they have to PLAY instead of faceroll. 

[Rendakor]

Halls of Stone is not difficult. However, it contains one of the longest "boss fights" of any LK heroic, which is why when it comes up for me (which it seems to every other day) I have no problem waiting 15m for my 2 frost badges.

[Sheepherder]

You take a fifteen minute hiatus to save three and a half minutes?

EDIT: And you can skip half the bosses in the instance?

[Rendakor]

Yes.

[kildorn]

HHoS could use some edits (and it's getting a minor one), but it's kind of a dick move to requeue if you get it as a tank or healer.

YOUR queues are instant, but you just left four other people sitting around for 15 minutes waiting on another tank or healer to pop. Seriously, it's not hard, it's not that long, and it works out that you're not just being a prick because you don't have a long queue.

If your group sucks and can't get it's shit together, bail away! But bailing because an instance takes another two minutes is just 

[Lantyssa]

It's not even a tough fight compared to a lot of them unless you're going for the achievement and the players are both under geared and don't know the spawns.

[Ingmar]

HHoS could use some edits (and it's getting a minor one), but it's kind of a dick move to requeue if you get it as a tank or healer.

YOUR queues are instant, but you just left four other people sitting around for 15 minutes waiting on another tank or healer to pop. Seriously, it's not hard, it's not that long, and it works out that you're not just being a prick because you don't have a long queue.

If your group sucks and can't get it's shit together, bail away! But bailing because an instance takes another two minutes is just 

Its actually not that bad, stranded groups go to the top of the pile so even a dropped tank comes back pretty fast. Still kind of a rude move but it isn't TOTAL dickface action.

[Rendakor]

HHoS could use some edits (and it's getting a minor one), but it's kind of a dick move to requeue if you get it as a tank or healer.

YOUR queues are instant, but you just left four other people sitting around for 15 minutes waiting on another tank or healer to pop. Seriously, it's not hard, it's not that long, and it works out that you're not just being a prick because you don't have a long queue.

If your group sucks and can't get it's shit together, bail away! But bailing because an instance takes another two minutes is just 

I play WoW for fun, not because I owe my tanking services to whatever random DPS I get queued with. HoS isn't fun, period, so I bail.

[Paelos]

HHoS could use some edits (and it's getting a minor one), but it's kind of a dick move to requeue if you get it as a tank or healer.

YOUR queues are instant, but you just left four other people sitting around for 15 minutes waiting on another tank or healer to pop. Seriously, it's not hard, it's not that long, and it works out that you're not just being a prick because you don't have a long queue.

If your group sucks and can't get it's shit together, bail away! But bailing because an instance takes another two minutes is just 

Not that I do this, but we are tanks and you are legion. No tank gives a shit about upsetting dps because they are always 10,000 more beating down the gates in a PuG format.

That being said, I would only bail on Occulus, because it's just not fun. It could be 10 minutes of not fun, instead of 15 minutes of me fishing, but I'm going to have more fun watching a basketball game and fishing than doing Occulus. After 5 years in this game, I simply refuse to do anything anymore that I don't find fun. I think everyone should do the same.

[Selby]

Its actually not that bad, stranded groups go to the top of the pile so even a dropped tank comes back pretty fast. Still kind of a rude move but it isn't TOTAL dickface action.

We were stranded for 20 minutes in HoS the other day because the tank dropped instantly.  Our timers ran out and we debated even bothering to wait, except that as DPS it would have been another 15-20m in the queue anyways...

[Ingmar]

Its actually not that bad, stranded groups go to the top of the pile so even a dropped tank comes back pretty fast. Still kind of a rude move but it isn't TOTAL dickface action.

We were stranded for 20 minutes in HoS the other day because the tank dropped instantly.  Our timers ran out and we debated even bothering to wait, except that as DPS it would have been another 15-20m in the queue anyways...

Maybe the pause is battlegroup dependent, I've had tanks drop on DH for Oculus and the like and usually it only takes a minute maybe to get a new one in.

[Sjofn]

I don't brook no sass from my DPSers, but in turn I don't bail on a group, even if it's a dungeon I don't really like. None of them take SO LONG (assuming the group isn't ass, which happily for me has been rare) that I feel the need to leave four people without a tank. Clearly it's my womanly need to nurture that drives me to tank.

[Selby]

I don't brook no sass from my DPSers,

And in turn I don't say anything to anyone on their playing unless it is just horrendously bad.  I will make suggestions if the tank keeps charging mobs with no mana left for the healer, but beyond that I consider it my responsibility to keep up (within reason).

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I generally ignore the DPS numbers (I mean, I will make a face if I'm somehow winning DPS or something), I just don't want them telling me a) I can't tank something I've already successfully tanked multiple times because I don't have 50k HP or b) I'm going too slow when I kindly pause for the healer to actually get some damn mana back.

[Dren]

I tanked HHoS recently and agree it isn't bad at all.  I skipped right to the end and I'm estimating we were at the escort quest within 15 mins maybe less. 

The trouble was when we started that fight, the hunter went afk for most of it.  The warrior in the group noticed it and after we wiped due to taking way way too long getting the mass of mobs down due to 1/3 of our dps being missing we kicked him.  Replaced almost instantly and finished no problem.

Beyond the fun factor, people skip HHoS for the same reason they skip HHoR.  It takes a full competent group to be successful.  In complete PuG's that is a crapshoot.

Compared to other instances like the UK one I did last night it is a joke.  I was healing and the tank was a 25k hp pally wearing greens and blues.  I was pulling agro purely from healing let alone the 4k+ dps mage.  The fact that the other 4 people in the group knew what to do got us through with no issues.  HUK and others don't require a full competent group.  Hell, you could probably 3 man it.

[Jayce]

I have tanked HHOS fairly often, and I don't think I've ever been in a group that failed it.  Strange.

The only instances I've had a group that failed to finish was HoR, HPoS and Oculus, that I can remember.  On all three it was the last boss.

[kildorn]

I don't brook no sass from my DPSers,

And in turn I don't say anything to anyone on their playing unless it is just horrendously bad.  I will make suggestions if the tank keeps charging mobs with no mana left for the healer, but beyond that I consider it my responsibility to keep up (within reason).

Man, I had a tank that refused to pull if I was at 85% mana. Seriously, it's trash and we lack a mage. I'm not spending money on 15% of my priest's freaking mana bar!

[Dren]

I have tanked HHOS fairly often, and I don't think I've ever been in a group that failed it.  Strange.

The only instances I've had a group that failed to finish was HoR, HPoS and Oculus, that I can remember.  On all three it was the last boss.

That HUK instance I mentioned started off with me joining after the original group had failed on the first boss.  I'm telling you.  Total.Crap.Shoot. when it comes to these randoms.  My guess is that both the tank and the healer were severely undergeared...