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f13.net General Forums => Gaming => Topic started by: Cadaverine on May 30, 2018, 10:06:04 AM



Title: Fallout 76
Post by: Cadaverine on May 30, 2018, 10:06:04 AM
Teaser trailer for Fallout 76 dropped today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ye84Zrqndo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ye84Zrqndo)


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: cironian on May 30, 2018, 10:14:34 AM
Fallout 76

I'm expecting something like this:
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/l/100382-interstate-76-screenshot.png)


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Tebonas on May 30, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
Since 76 was one of the control Vaults and not deliberately sabotaged by Vault-Tec, I'm sure everything went fine and we are in for a game of "Utopia Walking Simulator".  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on May 30, 2018, 11:11:17 AM
Is the voice-over Jonathan Frakes?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on May 30, 2018, 11:20:34 AM
Since 76 was one of the control Vaults and not deliberately sabotaged by Vault-Tec, I'm sure everything went fine and we are in for a game of "Utopia Walking Simulator".  :awesome_for_real:

Naw, I expect it to be a rebuild and survive thing rather than world exploration

but that's fine because one appalachian vista is the same as the next one


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on May 30, 2018, 12:10:05 PM
It's multiplayer so I expect it to be a bit of a Overawatch, a bit of a Battle Royale, and a bit of Mario Kart.

I am interested by default, but I am not too hopeful for some reason.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on May 30, 2018, 12:15:03 PM
I wanna build dongtown


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on May 30, 2018, 12:42:33 PM
It's multiplayer so I expect it to be a bit of a Overawatch, a bit of a Battle Royale, and a bit of Mario Kart.

I am interested by default, but I am not too hopeful for some reason.
Where'd you hear that it was multiplayer?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: rattran on May 30, 2018, 01:04:07 PM
Kotaku seems to be the source for the multiplayer claims. We'll find out June 10


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Bunk on May 30, 2018, 02:56:19 PM
Rumors floating all over reddit that its going to be online base building a la RUST/Conan?etc.

I'm not sure what I think about that.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on May 30, 2018, 03:18:53 PM
i mean that's exactly what i want after playing conan exiles

but more exiles and less any of those other games


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Setanta on May 30, 2018, 03:34:34 PM
Fallout 76

I'm expecting something like this:
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/l/100382-interstate-76-screenshot.png)

That was my thought too. I loved that game and its sequel.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on May 30, 2018, 04:03:32 PM
guys i hate to break it to you but they're probably going to make a game that will make money in 2018/19


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on May 30, 2018, 04:15:03 PM
Fallout Online. You heard it here first. Dibs on the Super Mutant Class.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on May 30, 2018, 04:57:58 PM
"Integrated Online functionality" is going to turn out to mean "no mods except thru Creation Club"


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on May 30, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
I think this is definitely going to be Conan Exiles but Fallout if Kotaku can be believed. That could actually be pretty cool if you think about it and if they do it well. I also doubt mods will only be creation club. They'll keep pushing that shit but they've learned that the fanbase will rise up if they don't allow "real" mods. They've actually got a real reason to do it since Conan Exiles does and the last thing they want is to see news stories about Funcom taking over the mod friendly space online or something.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Hawkbit on May 30, 2018, 07:00:06 PM
It makes sense. The base building component from 4 likely gave them a very solid foundation for porting those ideas into a multiplayer framework. It has potential to be one of the best versions of these games, if it turns out to be in that style. The 'new' mmo games.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 31, 2018, 04:54:46 PM
It's Bethesda though, they will screw it up.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on May 31, 2018, 04:55:27 PM
I mean they probably won't screw it up? They generally succeed in what they're trying to do though it doesn't speak at all to the actual quality of the design itself.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on May 31, 2018, 07:49:01 PM
Fallout Online. You heard it here first. Dibs on the Super Mutant Class.
I don't think they've had the time or devoted the resources to that.

I'm thinking a more expanded settlement system (with fewer settlements, perhaps even one, but with a lot more to build and create), which is pretty unique to you (and perhaps people you invite), and then either solo or group "raids" into the very dangerous wastelands for salvage and loot.

And by "raids" I mean "4 person teams, built around console limitations".


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on May 31, 2018, 08:20:01 PM
I hope the multiplayer crap is optional. I don't do multiplayer with strangers anymore.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Yegolev on June 01, 2018, 02:34:50 PM
Harumph. Bit annoyed with teaser trailers getting the youtubers all horny and speculating.  Need real info.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on June 01, 2018, 08:35:21 PM
So this appeared on r/Fallout.

Quote from: r/Fallout
Hi. I'm Jason Schreier, from Kotaku. I had forgotten how... passionate the Fallout community can get. After I reported on Fallout 4's existence in 2013, people here first spent two years calling me a liar, and then when it was confirmed, they just yelled at me for "spoiling the surprise." But hey, I'm also a big fan of the series, and in fact may or may not have just started replaying Fallout 4 on my PC in the wake of this week's news.

I've seen a lot of rage and confusion (and denial) on this subreddit so I just wanted to chime in to say a couple of things. One is that, after publishing my story, I heard from a few other sources (in addition to the three mentioned in the article) corroborating that Fallout 76 is an online game. If you're really still in denial, I guess you can wait until June 10, but hey, don't say I didn't tell you.

The second thing is that I'm very optimistic about this game. The buzz I'm hearing (both first- and second-hand) is that it's really cool, interesting, and just as story-focused as any other Bethesda Game Studios game. It might have multiplayer and base-building, but hey, it's still a Fallout game. I don't want to drive hype for a game I haven't seen or played, but I also don't want people to be so closed-minded that they spend the next nine days freaking out every day on Reddit because this game isn't going to be like the last three.

I mean, how many of you remember when hardcore Fallout fans flipped a shit because Bethesda was making a first-person shooter?

I think that in retrospect I shouldn't have tweeted that anyone expecting a traditional single-player Fallout will be "very disappointed" -- really, I should have said that they'll be very surprised. I wanted (and still want) to make sure people's expectations are calibrated accordingly.

Short version: Yes, Fallout 76 is going to be a multiplayer RPG. No, that's not automatically a bad thing. Just like all of you, I'm stoked to see the game on June 10, and I'm optimistic that it's going to be really cool.

(PS - Special shoutout to those of you who AREN'T sending me nasty and antisemitic messages on Twitter!)


Seems the community had a predictably Internet reaction to the news that the next Fallout game is going to change things up a bit.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Teleku on June 01, 2018, 08:56:23 PM
It's Bethesda though, they will screw it up.
Eh?  Bethesda has been one of the few game companies I can think of to constantly put out a good product.  What donít you like?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ceryse on June 01, 2018, 09:26:18 PM
Eh?  Bethesda has been one of the few game companies I can think of to constantly put out a good product.  What donít you like?

Not directed at me, but...

The fact that their games tend to be among the buggiest games ever produced and overly reliant on the modding community to not only make right, but flesh out and into an actual game? I like a lot of their games but the idea of a multiplayer Fallout has me at zero interest. Granted, I'm not really into multiplayer anything these days, but even more so considering the people behind it.

Hell, Fallout 4, as an example for how they build games lately. Bad design decision after bad design decision on top of the usual Bethesda bug ridden mess.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Teleku on June 02, 2018, 03:24:15 AM
I will admit Fallout 4 felt like a by the books low effort....effort.  Still, it had some unique mechanics that many people enjoyed, and was by no means a bad game if you enjoy Fallout games.  On a personal note, Iíve never ran into any sort of bugs in any of there games that got in the way of myself having fun.  Like, Iíll see something wierd like a graphics bug or a guy dying in some wierd position thatís obviously a bug.  But l just laugh at that and keep moving.

I pretty much have played all of the Bethesda games unmodded and have enjoyed them.  I tried a bunch of mods on Skyrim after playing through it for the Xíteenth time, which was a lot of fun, but Iíd already but over a hundred hours into it before that.

So while Iím sure your criticisms are probably valid since I hear so many people repeat them, theyíve just personally never really effected me.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on June 02, 2018, 04:03:12 AM
Playing F4 pretty much unmodded bar the unofficial patch, and enjoying it.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 02, 2018, 06:55:45 AM
Fallout 4 is fantastic.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on June 02, 2018, 08:10:01 AM
A week or so ago I actually started up a Fallout 3 game. I'm having so much fun I may go back to Fallout 1 or 2 next.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: cironian on June 03, 2018, 01:39:54 AM
A week or so ago I actually started up a Fallout 3 game. I'm having so much fun I may go back to Fallout 1 or 2 next.

I started a series replay (skipping 3 for reasons) a couple of weeks ago. Up to New Vegas now, but I had sooo much fun rediscovering the 2D ones. 1 was a bit annoying interface-wise (so many small things they fixed in the sequel), but 2 held up great especially with high res support patched in.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Teleku on June 03, 2018, 06:27:09 AM
I may be the only person, but I actually really liked Fallout Tactics.  Played the hell out of that back in the day.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Mandella on June 03, 2018, 12:02:13 PM
Yeah, I've liked all the Fallout games, and don't remember hitting a game breaking bug in any of them. Also, the modding community is a feature, not a failing.

I would like to slam this next one for "following the current fad" or whatever, but the fact is I love the fad. I just spent two evenings in Conan Exiles trying to get the roof of my manor house just right, and I'm already imagining how fun it's going to be using Fallout style building blocks to make my own post apocalyptic fort.

Looking forward to the F13 server!


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 03, 2018, 12:11:40 PM
Yeah I'm hoping this is as close to Conan exiles as possible


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Teleku on June 03, 2018, 01:54:38 PM
Conan Exiles as a Bethesda Fallout game server is as close to Nirvana as I can imagine right now. 

Which means it wont happen.  But hey, dreams.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Fabricated on June 03, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
If it's online I wonder how it'll even work. I mean, is it seriously going to be the NotGamebryo engine? That fucking piece of shit they have can't even stay stable or behave right for a single player title.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on June 04, 2018, 04:15:18 PM
There's been a supposed leak or twenty about this game. One of them claims they won't allow any external mods because of "security concerns". Hopefully that's not true as it's the one thing that would make me quit Bethesda games for good.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Threash on June 04, 2018, 04:34:35 PM
It's going to be an online game, of course it won't have mods.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on June 04, 2018, 04:43:34 PM
That's not really a given. A lot of stuff like Ark and Conan Exiles have mods.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Cadaverine on June 04, 2018, 05:11:53 PM
The Elder Scrolls Online has plenty of mods, so I don't see why Fallout 76 wouldn't also have them, online or not.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Brolan on June 09, 2018, 11:15:05 AM
Iím stoked for this one.  Iíve been looking for something new to get into regardless if it is multiplayer or not.  Sign me up.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: rattran on June 10, 2018, 09:32:57 PM
Oh joy, another mmo shit sandwich.

FUCK YOU BETHSOFT

Okay, maybe it'll be okay. Stupid presentation


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Fabricated on June 10, 2018, 09:42:40 PM
man i don't care


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Brolan on June 10, 2018, 10:15:07 PM
Looks like we need this moved to the MMOG section.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 10, 2018, 10:28:32 PM
not sure

depends on what they mean by

"we have no dedicated servers"

followed by

"we have dedicated servers that need testing"


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 10, 2018, 10:37:36 PM
You can have dedicated servers (a la Quake/QuakeWorld) without a game being an MMO.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 10, 2018, 10:42:02 PM
yes we know

and fallout isn't an mmo, they called out dedicated servers

but also called out there were no dedicated servers and you'd never see servers

it was a pr presentation of mixed fucking messages


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Velorath on June 10, 2018, 10:58:51 PM
The way I understood what they said is that there isn't anything like a server select screen. I assume that just means that when you log in each time it either just puts you in a server with random people or if you have friends you play with there is some means of joining up with them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Hawkbit on June 10, 2018, 11:10:09 PM
It sounds pretty much the same as the Conan servers. Which means the Brotherhood of Dong is only five months away.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 10, 2018, 11:23:27 PM
it doesn't though

but if it is

oh lawdy

dong is gonna fix the opiate problem


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on June 11, 2018, 12:23:55 AM
It sounds pretty much the same as the Conan servers. Which means the Brotherhood of Dong is only five months away.

Conan has a server select screen and private servers. Neither of which seemed like a thing based on their presentation.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 11, 2018, 02:12:34 AM
Full stage show presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV63b6empgM


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 03:38:30 AM
It seems to me that they are going the Elite Dangerous route. It's a shared universe, but played over many instances. So you can hide from danger or from human interactions when and if you want, but at the same time you are all (kinda) in the same world.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 11, 2018, 08:12:32 AM
It seems to me that they are going the Elite Dangerous route. It's a shared universe, but played over many instances. So you can hide from danger or from human interactions when and if you want, but at the same time you are all (kinda) in the same world.
For those of us who haven't played Elite Dangerous?

The bits of the presentation I saw were all over the place. There was a flat statement of "you can play it solo", but then videos of co-op exploration and straight-up PvP. Building anywhere is pretty cool, but is that open-world shit that'll just get blown up and stolen by others, or like your own little instance, or what?

I can't tell if they've like Destiny (some big "open world" instances with a lot of people, coupled with group or solo only instances), or an MMORPG, or what.

Which is frustrating, because you'd think "here's the basic game we're putting together and how it's played" would be the kind of thing you'd tell people.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 09:21:56 AM
I think this is how it'll work:

You can only play if you are connected to the internet. That requires a key and forces you to login (to fight piracy and ensure persistency).

The play area is the same for everybody but has infinite instances.

When you build your house, that could be in instance#4893 while someone else has another house in your spot on instance#2380.

You and your friends can always phase to each other's instance-server and play together. Not sure how you could move all your stuff around if you wanted to move your buildings to their instance. There might be a "pack everything" function .

You never get to pick the instance-server nor you ever get to know the #. You can change instance to a random one or join your friends', but you don't pick which one. That also prevents twitch-sniping.

How does the "solo" play work? In Elite, you can elect to play "solo" or "group only" which would place you in another instance that is basically private so devoid of other players. It still requires for you to be online because of piracy protection AND because there is a dynamic economic simulation in Elite that stays the same for everybody regardless of the instance-server they are on. It could be the same here. Or it could be dependent on world events that can be triggered on one server but change the world on all the other ones too.


tl;dr

The world is instanced but you can choose to play on a private instance. Kind of like Destiny, except you can make everyone else disappear from the open world if you want.

By the most recent standards it is definitely a MMO, but you can switch it to single player and back as much as you want.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 09:28:45 AM
I don't quite think that's how it will work


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Signe on June 11, 2018, 11:11:47 AM
It doesn't sound like an MMO to me, either.  Chopping off an M would fix the description maybe.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 12:45:27 PM
Well, how do you think it will work? It's basically Conan Exiles but you don't get to choose the server cause there's no server list, but you can choose to play in your own solo-group server.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 12:46:20 PM
but you can choose to play in your own solo-group server.

we don't know that yet

is it always on
is that particular server static
how is it seeded
does one person always need to be online

this shit matters

this is dealbreaker tier shit


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
I take that from Todd Howard saying "because Fallout 76 is entirely online" and  "of course you can play this solo". Here at 13:06. (https://youtu.be/FV63b6empgM?t=773)


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 01:33:27 PM
yeah I know what he said, i watched the whole thing intently

he also said "you'll never see a server" and then at the end said "we need to test our dedicated server technology"

so uh


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on June 11, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Yeah it's a bit confusing how that's supposed to work.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 01:56:56 PM
Quote
"you'll never see a server" and then at the end said "we need to test our dedicated server technology"

Of course I can be wrong but I don't see confusion there, nor is there a contradiction in the above statements. The game will have dedicated servers (technology), they just won't be visible to the players. You don't pick what unnamed instance you are dropped into or phase to/from to play with your friends.



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Yegolev on June 11, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
Obviously no one at Bethesda knows how it will work either.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 02:22:55 PM
Quote
"you'll never see a server" and then at the end said "we need to test our dedicated server technology"

Of course I can be wrong but I don't see confusion there, nor is there a contradiction in the above statements. The game will have dedicated servers (technology), they just won't be visible to the players. You don't pick what unnamed instance you are dropped into or phase to/from to play with your friends.



What you just described is both counterintuitive and basically nonsense


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 11, 2018, 03:02:27 PM
That's how Elite Dangerous work.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 11, 2018, 03:02:34 PM
I get what Falconeer is saying. What he describes is sometimes used for "MMOs" with persistent characters but non-persistent worlds like The Division which has dedicated servers for online gameplay but you are never explicitly aware which server you are connected to, and you can group up with friends by "teleporting" to their instance (or vice-versa).

This is in contrast to games like Destiny or Warframe where one player is chosen as the host for the multiplayer instance.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ginaz on June 11, 2018, 03:31:14 PM
I just hope that it's not a forced pvp game.  At least with Conan Exiles you have an option to play on pve servers.  This doesn't sound like it gives you a server type option.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on June 11, 2018, 04:35:40 PM
https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-will-have-mod-support-but-not-at-launch/ (https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-will-have-mod-support-but-not-at-launch/)

tl;dr

There will be mods.
There will be private servers.

Neither will be in at launch.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 04:36:47 PM
That's not iron clad enough for me. I'm whatever about mods. But they need private servers at goddamn launch.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on June 11, 2018, 04:37:24 PM
If they're not in at launch, neither am I.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
it's staggeringly stupid to not have them at launch


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: MournelitheCalix on June 11, 2018, 04:47:39 PM
Yeah it's a bit confusing how that's supposed to work.

You know what else was confusing about that presentation, why would I need to preorder a cell phone game?  Fallout 76 and Blades ...  that presentation left me even more confused.   At least though were going to have fallout dragons in this one.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ceryse on June 11, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
Everything I've seen about this game has me thinking I'll skip it entirely. Online has zero interest for me (gaming is something I enjoy most as a single player experience; the traditional MMO was a bit of an exception for me, but I pass on those now as well). Combine that with no mod support at launch (mods being the only saving grace for Bethesda games, as both Skyrim and the Fallout games by them would be complete trash without mods, imo, and largely broken at that -- Skyrim was one of the buggiest games I've ever experienced prior to things like the Unofficial patch mods getting built up, with crashes and broken quests/NPCs, combat, skills, etc., etc.).

I'm honestly not that torn about it, though, after Fallout 4. Bethesda got dropped down to 'buy at 75% off sale' status, for me, after that game.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on June 11, 2018, 06:30:07 PM
Yup. The last thing I'm going to do is play the game with a crowd of strangers most of whom will inevitably be complete assholes.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 11, 2018, 07:04:34 PM
they're basically designing paradise for assholes so

yeah private servers or fucking nothing


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on June 11, 2018, 08:02:07 PM
Hah, yeah. I just read that they have usable missile silos so that bored teens with too much time on their hands can blow up everything you've accomplished in the game. No thanks.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 11, 2018, 08:55:57 PM
it's staggeringly stupid to not have them at launch
Nope, think about games like Rust. Online, open world, survival games. Built around PvP.

Servers don't matter -- you'd end up on the same shard as your group, and that's all that matters. You'd never need to pick one, people would just teleport to you.

But....private servers come in if you want to use mods. Change the ruleset, add in new things, etc. Now you need a private server running just your variant, so people know they're joining a modded game. That's a frill. An extra you add in later. Not core gameplay.

If you're running open world PvP, like Rust (or even GTA5 online) -- private servers are a frill, probably only even being considered because of the long history of modding Fallout. The fact that you can restrict it to just your friends (and thus avoid PvP) is an incidental use, and you can bet the game isn't constructed around no PvP.

It's pretty clear, by how they've danced around and refused to utter the words "Optional PvP" or "PvE only shards" or "PvP flags" or "PvE and PvP zones" or any other set of words that indicates there are major areas of the game where you can't be ganked randomly, that this game is built around PvP. Not optional PvP, PvP with no way to turn it off. It's literally the biggest complaint and question from the Fallout userbase, and it's the one they won't answer definitively six months before launch. They know the answer, clearly. Which means they don't think the fans will like the answer.

Then there's the charming naivety of some of their statements on PvP, which reminds me a lot of early Ultima Online. The lovely belief that "bounties" or that the "proper incentives" or my favorite "tweaking incentives in beta" could reign in griefers,

No human NPCs,  no talk of story, an absolute refusal to talk about forced PvP, the repeated statements that PvP offer "Drama" and "tension"....

Yeah, open world PvP.  Rush clone, or GTA5 online clone, whatever.

I'm sure there's a solid audience for it, but the fact that they won't commit to simple questions like "How much PvP are we talking here" is pretty telling that they don't think the users will like it.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on June 11, 2018, 09:06:00 PM
Well it shouldn't be a surprise. It's being released too quickly to have had any more effort put into it than Fallout Shelter. The next real Fallout game will come some time after the next Elder Scrolls.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ginaz on June 11, 2018, 09:31:44 PM
https://i.imgur.com/U0pp9Oh.gifv


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 12, 2018, 04:05:31 AM
As a PvP and Rust lover, I am sure you are -unfortunately- wrong. When he says "of course you can play solo" there is NO way that can be twisted "you can play solo but with PvP" (what?). So I am willing to bet some money (a little) on the fact that even at launch it will be possible to opt out of PvP completely by playing on a "solo" or "friends only" instance. 100% as in Elite Dangerous.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Malakili on June 12, 2018, 07:05:36 AM

If you're running open world PvP, like Rust (or even GTA5 online) -- private servers are a frill, probably only even being considered because of the long history of modding Fallout. The fact that you can restrict it to just your friends (and thus avoid PvP) is an incidental use, and you can bet the game isn't constructed around no PvP.


I have no problem with an F13 server having PvP. I have a problem with some rando 15 year old blowing up my shit while I'm working. Whether or not this game is worth playing hinges entirely on being able to avoid playing with random people.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 12, 2018, 09:37:37 AM
As a PvP and Rust lover, I am sure you are -unfortunately- wrong. When he says "of course you can play solo" there is NO way that can be twisted "you can play solo but with PvP" (what?). So I am willing to bet some money (a little) on the fact that even at launch it will be possible to opt out of PvP completely by playing on a "solo" or "friends only" instance. 100% as in Elite Dangerous.
I would not bet that money, as they're actually on record stating that both mods and private servers are "a service they'd like to offer", specifically sometime "after launch".

And yes, it appears to be pretty much PvP anywhere outside the Vault.

And "solo" just means "not in a group", since they then said it something like "You can play solo, but there will be other players around you'll see and whatnot".

It's Rust: Fallout Edition, which seems an odd choice for a big E3 push. Certainly more money and development effort than Fallout Shelter into development, but it's not a huge overlap with their user base, which seems to want "co-op Fallout" if they want multiplayer at all.  So...not sure why they're pushing it as a big thing when it seems very likely they're not going to get a lot of the big fans of their IP.

Rust, Ark, Elite Dangerous -- how well did they sell? (I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea how popular they are).


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 12, 2018, 12:09:38 PM
Rust and Ark made shitton of money. Elite Dangerous made much much less but still made a huge profit.

Also, "private servers" are a different thing the way I see it from "Let me run this instance with nobody around". Again, see Elite Dangerous.

What they mean with "private servers" is the ability for you or your friends to run your own server with your own timeline, ruleset and stuff like that. Eventually mods. What they mean (and I mean, and Elite Dangerous means) with "play solo" is: "you are on our servers, on our ruleset, on our timeline, but you can exclude other players from whatever unnamed instance you are in".

Look, here's the bottom line. The Elite Dangerous way (which I hate) worked VERY well for that game. It only makes sense that some company was going to copy it at some point.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 12, 2018, 12:33:27 PM
stop telling us what they mean

their presentation was a mishmash of utter horseshit

they don't even know how it works yet, i reckon


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Kageru on June 12, 2018, 04:14:07 PM

PvP and player structures allows them to cover the fact that they probably haven't actually had time to create enough content to fill a map "4 times larger than fallout 4". The players will make their own content!

It has even less of what I liked about fallout than FO4 and is a easy pass. I have as much loyalty to a franchise as the big publishers do.



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Tale on June 12, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
Rust, Ark, Elite Dangerous -- how well did they sell? (I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea how popular they are).

Elite: Dangerous is very popular and vast. For many players, it's the only game they play. Its population is like a successful MMO - people drift away, others remain long-term, the drifters come back for a while when new content is released, pattern repeats. It's in a lull at the moment before new content is released at the end of this month, but it's still busy.

You progress the same character in the same persistent world (affecting everyone) no matter how you log in: Solo (you'll only see NPCs), Private Group (NPCs and those invited), or Open Play (NPCs and anyone who wants). You can relog to any of those at the same time and continue on the same character.

I am a member of a large Private Group called Mobius that has thousands of players. It is strictly PvE-only. Break the rules and the (volunteer) moderators will ban you from Mobius.

Mostly I log into Solo, which is lonely but safe. Sometimes I log into Mobius, e.g. when there's an effort to run supplies to a specific space station, and I want to feel like I'm doing that in a fleet. Rarely I log into Open, which exposes my character to PvP but I see a lot more people. That said, the game models the entire 400 billion star systems of the Milky Way, so even in Open you'll rarely see other people unless you go to popular places. If you just go exploring in deep space in Open you don't see anyone. I doubt Fallout 76 will suffer from that problem.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on June 13, 2018, 12:22:35 AM


Rust, Ark, Elite Dangerous -- how well did they sell? (I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea how popular they are).

It's only one datapoint but Conan Exiles saved Funcom from bankruptcy.

Also, if private servers are anything like in that game you'll be able to tweak most settings and password it so only those you want in can join.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on June 13, 2018, 10:25:24 AM
Dev interview "documentary" (i.e. 40 min promotion) doesn't have a ton of additional info, but does have some interesting commentary on the thought process around PVP and a multi-player world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8PTAJ2Hjs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8PTAJ2Hjs)

One of thing that got my attention was Todd Howard stating that they're aware of the possibility of rampant griefing, but they have lots of levers they can pull to tweak that.  Roughly 24:40

 :oh_i_see:

Other details:
  
  • No raiders or gunners, but there are "Scorched", which are gun using feral ghouls, so functionally, yeah ...
  • Team up to kill large critters for better drops, crafting mats, and crafting recipes
  • Perks are "cards" and you can only slot in a certain number at a time.  Re-spec by swapping cards.
  • SPECIAL-ization (heh).  You can specialize in crafting, base building, cooking, combat, healing, etc.
  • Nukes reset an area, raising the rads in that area and mutating the fauna into a higher level, granting better drops
  • Rads aren't damage anymore, they increase your chance of picking up a mutation, which will function like a Trait in older games (bonus with built in handicap). They are optional and re-specable


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 13, 2018, 11:17:33 AM
Boring

Dedicated server info or nothing


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Kageru on June 13, 2018, 05:02:34 PM

... so after coming out of the bunker you get back to launching nukes at each other because that gets you better drops.

I look forward to the "PvP levers" they have, that's always fascinating. Betheseda are such masters of complex game mechanics.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 13, 2018, 05:05:38 PM
It's always amusing watching game companies repeat the same mistakes because they are unwilling to learn from history.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Soulflame on June 13, 2018, 05:56:04 PM
That's just humanity in general.  It's not specific to people who work at video game companies.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 13, 2018, 06:08:22 PM
True but it's like game developers don't play games other than their own.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 13, 2018, 06:33:26 PM
Most don't

Most are bad at uhhhhhh

Uhhh

Everything


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 13, 2018, 09:15:31 PM
One of thing that got my attention was Todd Howard stating that they're aware of the possibility of rampant griefing, but they have lots of levers they can pull to tweak that.  Roughly 24:40
What's really funny is the Dev team has UO and SWG devs on it. And they're still selling that horseshit.

Open world PvP = griefing. Hell, you can grief in PvE zones, shards, etc -- it's just harder.

But there is no "levers to prevent rampant griefing" if PvP doesn't have an "opt out" button.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 13, 2018, 09:16:43 PM
as i've said repeatedly

private servers or nothing


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 14, 2018, 12:13:43 AM
The more I read/hear about this game the more I'll just wait for a sale after private servers with mods are available.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ironwood on June 14, 2018, 06:37:57 AM
It gives internet tards nukes that can destroy your settlement. 

Who would do anything BUT wait for private servers ?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on June 14, 2018, 10:54:51 AM
Internet tards?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 14, 2018, 11:16:45 AM
It gives internet tards nukes that can destroy your settlement. 

Who would do anything BUT wait for private servers ?
They are doing you a favor by nuking your settlement. Seriously. That's what the developers effectively said. (It increases rad levels which leads to better drops).


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on June 14, 2018, 11:39:07 AM
They really need to get Raph in as a consultant to help them with these little decisions.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Daeven on June 14, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
Well. Here's hoping they stop yammering about what they have no idea they are making and end up producing Fallout Exiles. That would be fun and amusing. A private, moldable, password protected Fallout game would be an amusing sandobx to play in with about 100 people.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: satael on June 14, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
I fear it'll end up as
-Fallout 4 engine
-patched in questionable multiplayer when it comes to code (the game engine was never meant for multiplayer)
-creation club with paid "mods" as the only modding allowed (to get all that sweet micro transaction money).


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 14, 2018, 12:48:02 PM
It gives internet tards nukes that can destroy your settlement. 

Who would do anything BUT wait for private servers ?

That's how it is in Conan Exiles with the God Avatars.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sky on June 14, 2018, 01:23:51 PM
Alternately, with all the flaws of UO and SWG, and many devs on this team with that history and looking to put their foot into the same mudpatch....

Who, at the time, wouldn't have killed for UO or SWG private servers?

So, I mean, there's that. I'm not real interested in this one at all, but that seems to be the selling point for old farts like us.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on June 14, 2018, 02:27:16 PM
Hell is other people, and open servers are hell. There is no other way to stop the fucktards.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 14, 2018, 03:23:13 PM
Looks like they made this new Fallout just for fucktards like me. Well, lucky me. I am happy.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ironwood on June 15, 2018, 05:22:15 AM
It gives internet tards nukes that can destroy your settlement. 

Who would do anything BUT wait for private servers ?
They are doing you a favor by nuking your settlement. Seriously. That's what the developers effectively said. (It increases rad levels which leads to better drops).


 :oh_i_see:

Fair enough.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on June 15, 2018, 06:08:48 AM
They are doing you a favor by nuking your settlement. Seriously. That's what the developers effectively said. (It increases rad levels which leads to better drops).

So I give it a week before we live in "Fallout: The Glowing Sea." Hell, the first place to have lethal radiation will be the Newbie Area and the green glow will spread from there.

So who'se up for justifying it by roleplaying as followers of Atom!


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 15, 2018, 10:18:50 AM
So, I mean, there's that. I'm not real interested in this one at all, but that seems to be the selling point for old farts like us.
I hear the big Rust and Ark players are drooling. So many single-player RPG sheep to slaughter.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Mandella on June 15, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
It gives internet tards nukes that can destroy your settlement. 

Who would do anything BUT wait for private servers ?

That's how it is in Conan Exiles with the God Avatars.

Sure, but the use of private servers from launch negates the problem with that.

I'm not too worried -- they will or they won't. There is an audience for all out PvP with WMDs and that's fine, I've got other games I can play in my backlog.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 15, 2018, 02:10:19 PM
I can assure you all this is NOT the game Rust players are waiting for. 24 players per server? It's a JOKE.

No, this might have open PvP, but it is not ever going to be a PvP centric game.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 15, 2018, 04:31:10 PM
I can assure you all this is NOT the game Rust players are waiting for. 24 players per server? It's a JOKE.

No, this might have open PvP, but it is not ever going to be a PvP centric game.
They thought of that. Everyone shows up on the map, so you can find them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 15, 2018, 04:50:06 PM
I can assure you all this is NOT the game Rust players are waiting for. 24 players per server? It's a JOKE.

No, this might have open PvP, but it is not ever going to be a PvP centric game.
you can't assure us of anything, bethsoft has never made a game like this

and not having private servers is absolutely the most glaring billboard that says "this is going to be a fucking disaster"

not pvp centric

lol


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 15, 2018, 05:24:18 PM
The sheer number of people trying to force this game into something it's not is staggering. People talking about setting up "communities" and "factions" and "settlements".

You're going to log onto a random collection of strangers, plus anyone in your group. Every time the people will be different. Your "settlement" isn't. It's a damn camp, SWG style, which you need to do stuff like craft ammo, rest, recuperate, maintain/repair gear. It travels with you, like...camps in SWG, and frankly probably needs materials to deploy each time because he, need sinks, right?

People talking about shelling out for 200 dollar, collector *pre-orders* for a game that will be 180 degrees away from what they think.

There's gonna be some pissed off people when this launches, and Bethesda could have avoided it by just being up front about what the game is. There'd be pissed off people now, but not pissed off people when it launched. The first affects pre-orders, the second affects all sales.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: MahrinSkel on June 15, 2018, 06:50:44 PM
Look at the stats for Fallout Shelter. Think about how it has almost certainly booked more revenue than the rest of the Fallout franchise combined, for virtually no cost. Welcome to microtransaction hell, Wanderer.

--Dave


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on June 15, 2018, 09:17:25 PM
I played Fallout Shelter.  The loot boxes were not cash grabby -- at all.  Bethesda were VERY up front about the fact that that the boxes had NOTHING in them that couldn't be obtained thru game play.  They were a short cut, not a way around a cockblock, just a way to shorten a game that held my interest for only 8-10 days.

Who the hell paid money for that?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: MahrinSkel on June 15, 2018, 10:03:02 PM
I played Fallout Shelter.  The loot boxes were not cash grabby -- at all.  Bethesda were VERY up front about the fact that that the boxes had NOTHING in them that couldn't be obtained thru game play.  They were a short cut, not a way around a cockblock, just a way to shorten a game that held my interest for only 8-10 days.

Who the hell paid money for that?
Apparently, a lot of people (https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/55195/fallout-shelter/). 3 years on still pulling in an estimated $1/install, and a top 30 position with 40K installs a day. It's closing on 100M installs, and that's with no User Acquisition spend in years (paid installs usually monetize at far higher rates than organic).

The game they describe makes no sense as a Fallout game, unless the big piece they aren't talking about is monetization.

--Dave


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on June 15, 2018, 10:58:07 PM
The game they describe makes no sense as a Fallout game, unless the big piece they aren't talking about is monetization.

--Dave
Actually I'm gonna disagree -- I mean assuming this is survival PvP, underneath all the PR spin.  Post-apocalypse is a pretty good setting for survival PvP, after all.

I suspect they saw this as the cheapest way to develop a robust multiplayer engine to run the Fallout engine with. Building co-op Falllout 4.5 (ala New Vegas for 3) would require not just developing the ability to do multiplayer), but also shelling out for a big, expensive, single-player setup and a filled up world.

Survival PvP lets them cut a lot of corners on that development, letting them spend the time and effort building a solid multiplayer engine. And with Rust and DayZ and all being pretty popular back when basic design was likely being finalized.....


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on June 25, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
Apparently Bohemia (the ARMA and DAYZ people) are doing their own version of Fallout 76. 8 to 16 players (WTF?) and set in Norway in 1991 after some kind of nuclear fallout. It's called Vigor.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFvc6PqB8F0


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on June 25, 2018, 01:56:41 PM
Xbox Exclusive? Why?

Also, I didn't even realize DayZ had gone officially released mainly because I didn't care.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on June 25, 2018, 07:38:18 PM
i want to play that

but i'll own a fucking limited edition japanese only switch before i own another microsoft console


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Velorath on June 25, 2018, 08:05:56 PM
The sheer number of people trying to force this game into something it's not is staggering. People talking about setting up "communities" and "factions" and "settlements".

You're going to log onto a random collection of strangers, plus anyone in your group. Every time the people will be different. Your "settlement" isn't. It's a damn camp, SWG style, which you need to do stuff like craft ammo, rest, recuperate, maintain/repair gear. It travels with you, like...camps in SWG, and frankly probably needs materials to deploy each time because he, need sinks, right?

People talking about shelling out for 200 dollar, collector *pre-orders* for a game that will be 180 degrees away from what they think.

There's gonna be some pissed off people when this launches, and Bethesda could have avoided it by just being up front about what the game is. There'd be pissed off people now, but not pissed off people when it launched. The first affects pre-orders, the second affects all sales.

I'm pretty sure they're going to talk about the game more between now and when it launches.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: MrHat on June 26, 2018, 11:38:04 PM
Xbox Exclusive? Why?


Aren't all new Xbox games on Windows Store Xbox thingy too?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on June 27, 2018, 12:48:21 AM
Microsoft published games are now that way but this game is a digital-only, self-published game.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: koro on July 02, 2018, 04:13:01 AM
Xbox Exclusive? Why?

Also, I didn't even realize DayZ had gone officially released mainly because I didn't care.

DayZ is still listed as Early Access, by the way. It hasn't released yet.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on July 02, 2018, 02:00:43 PM
What does "early Access" even mean anymore in that case? Its become a meaningless concept, just "give us money now and reduce the reasons for us to bother finishing the game."


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ironwood on July 03, 2018, 03:39:31 AM
Yes, that's exactly what it means.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on August 11, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
Lots of stuff from QuakeCon 2018 Q&A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2289&v=vdn0ZQ51nGI&has_verified=1

Summary of stuff:

https://kotaku.com/21-things-we-learned-about-fallout-76-today-1828276548

Haven't watched full video yet but some hightlights from reading other people's summaries:

* There will be private servers and mods (don't know if either or both will be available at launch)

* You can still be killed in PvP even if you don't want to engage with enemy (unless you flag as pacifist?). I.e. if you don't attack back the person attacking you they will still do minimal damage and eventually kill you.

* They are attempting a bounty system to curb griefing :why_so_serious:

* Oh and Perks are RNG

Edit: perks



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on August 11, 2018, 03:07:50 PM
* You can ignore and block other players in a session, preventing them from interacting with you, and you can flag yourself as a pacifist if you donít want to deal with the PVP mechanics.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Soulflame on August 11, 2018, 07:00:32 PM
A bounty system to curb griefing.

Hilarious.

I can't wait to see how the griefers will use the bounty system as a griefing tool.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 11, 2018, 07:12:51 PM
Player is shooting monsters. Dickhead runs in front of bullets, gets flagged, kills Player. It's like a fucking 2004 era MMO all over again. I'm so glad FO4 was shit so I can avoid this one.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 11, 2018, 07:47:40 PM
Private server

Heard what I need to hear


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Mandella on August 11, 2018, 09:25:04 PM
And you can switch off PvP.

Good enough.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ceryse on August 12, 2018, 01:14:34 AM
Absolutely nothing in the presentation made me think this would be anything other than utter shit. Combined with not being on Steam (I am tired of companies adding more and more fucking clients) the game is a complete and utter pass for me. To be fair I am clearly not the target audience, given my general disdain for multiplayer. Shit, I don't think I've played a multiplayer game a single time since I stopped playiing MMOs (Rift being my last one years ago).


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on August 12, 2018, 01:52:24 AM
Combined with not being on Steam

... the fuck?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ceryse on August 12, 2018, 02:27:49 AM
Combined with not being on Steam

... the fuck?

The fuck indeed. On PC it'll only be available (both the beta and main game) through bethesda.net; not Steam. Bethesda says this might not be the case for all future games, but I wager they're using Fallout 76 as a test case to see how it does without being on Steam, as it would allow them to retain a much larger share of sales (Steam takes like 30%). The only problem? People use Steam for a reason; for all its flaws it is just out-right superior, especially compared to Betheda's launcher.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: satael on August 12, 2018, 04:29:39 AM
My guess is that they want to get their grubby hands on some of that sweet micro-transaction money and their own "launcher" is better for that.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 12, 2018, 09:50:27 AM
It also probably makes it easier to restrict mods to "premium" content they can charge for.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Khaldun on August 12, 2018, 10:36:18 AM
It is cute that they think that they're going to find a way to incentivize players to hunt griefers and otherwise maintain the peace.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 12, 2018, 12:11:53 PM
Valve takes 30% of all sales through their shit.

Were I to release a game, I'd put it on Steam.

If I were Bethesda and I released a game, I probably wouldn't.

Valve needs to rethink their shit if they want to remain supreme.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Mandella on August 12, 2018, 12:27:27 PM
30% is pretty damn high (although I understand that is something of an industry standard -- doesn't Google take the same?), and they need to drop that percentage if they want to maintain their near monopoly.

And I second that as annoyed as people get with Stream, it's the most reliable launcher I've ever seen, and its network streaming system works pretty flawlessly for me. Not so much with others. One big reason I no longer play Hearthstone is due to problems with its launcher, and they are actually loosing money from me on that one, since I was a reliable deck buyer.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 12, 2018, 12:36:07 PM
battle.net isn't great

And yeah, 30% is industry standard. Thank Apple for realizing it was going to be their only cash cow following Jobs getting eaten by his views on homeopathy.

Valve on the other hand, has no excuse, considering they always made bank and are a great studio. Though, maybe, we can thank all the pizzas gabe newell is eating in regards to his views on health. Pizza gets... expensive?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Reg on August 12, 2018, 04:04:04 PM
It takes me back to UO in 1998. Do you think they`ll chart the effectiveness of the clever new anti-griefing measures? Will Angel Island rise again?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Tebonas on August 20, 2018, 04:47:19 AM
Wow, my interest in this just dropped from a cautious 75% to 0%

Steam/GoG, or the game doesn't exist. Blizzards gets away with it, but barely. The others can go fuck themself it they think they can make me endure yet another launcher.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Krushchev on August 20, 2018, 07:04:43 AM
Pizza gets... expensive?
It really does. Between work and lazy days at home, I've spent about a used Honda's worth on pizza.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: eldaec on August 29, 2018, 02:36:09 AM
I guess the 30% is holdover from when actual real life stores had costs and steam had risks.

Can't think of any other industry that does digital distribution and has managed to keep retail price exactly as high as it was in the dark ages. I guess that is only possible when one player dominates the market.

So while it seems a lot, Valve can at least claim the sticker price is only what it is because of the non competitive market they created.

But nonetheless, if a thing is not in Steam it does not exist.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Cyrrex on August 29, 2018, 03:09:11 AM
As a counterpoint to that assertion...whenever Origin or any other shit platform comes out with their games, they cost as much or more than steam games.  At least it seems that way.  None of these people are trying to win on price (except for the key resellers).

Counter counterpoint: video games are not really any more expensive than they were 15 years ago.  Arguably, they are cheaper.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Velorath on August 29, 2018, 03:38:59 AM
I also can't think of too many other industries where the price can often plummet dramatically if you're willing to wait just a little while. That goes for non-Steam and non-digital games also. I was surprised earlier today when I noticed that for Horizon Zero Dawn: Complete Edition, the physical copy is currently on sale for $16. Final Fantasy XV, which isn't even half a year old on Steam is currently on sale for $25.

Steam is responsible for occasionally making games so cheap that most of us have bought a ton of them that we've never installed much less played.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 29, 2018, 10:24:53 AM
Counter counterpoint: video games are not really any more expensive than they were 15 years ago.  Arguably, they are cheaper.
This is only true if you don't factor in season passes and/or microtransactions.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Hawkbit on August 29, 2018, 11:24:41 AM
This is only true if you don't factor in season passes and/or microtransactions.

Some of it is just bonkers - Monster Hunter for PS4/PC has something like 51 DLC options to buy. Most of it is emotes and gestures from what I can see. But how and why does anyone think that's okay to charge $5 per item? How do you surface actual content in all of that? Watch Dogs 2 is another great example of a game simply buried in garbage DLC - it's really tough to decide what is actual content and what is just skins.

I'm hoping the industry gets sensible and starts charging $80/game but the entire game is presented.

Back on topic, I have very much cooled to this idea of Fallout. I'm fairly certain I'll hold for reviews and a sale.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 29, 2018, 12:36:14 PM
$80? lol


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 29, 2018, 01:00:22 PM
$80 for everything (and everything available at launch) would be fine by me; are you saying that's too high or too low schild?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 29, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
games don't magically cost $80 now because they milk them

up until DLC, games were $60 and sometimes $70-$100 (when they contained physical crap)

$80 is not the cost of games.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ginaz on August 29, 2018, 01:25:39 PM
games don't magically cost $80 now because they milk them

up until DLC, games were $60 and sometimes $70-$100 (when they contained physical crap)

$80 is not the cost of games.

Games were still costing $50-$70 10-15 years ago.  If anything, if you take inflation into account (and you should), in many cases we're actually paying less than we were.  I'm not trying to justify the proliferation of dlc and all that other crap btw, just pointing out that everything costs more than it did before.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on August 29, 2018, 01:35:39 PM
Games were really $40 (portable), $50 (big, but not really big), and $60 (big). Anything else was an outlier or weird budget import ($19.99 garbage vns come to mind). $70 was practically unheard of unless you reach real far back.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on August 29, 2018, 01:51:15 PM
Some of it is just bonkers - Monster Hunter for PS4/PC has something like 51 DLC options to buy. Most of it is emotes and gestures from what I can see. But how and why does anyone think that's okay to charge $5 per item? How do you surface actual content in all of that?
Because all the real content updates (new monsters, quests, weapons, armor, etc), of which there have been many, are free. In other words MH:W is run like a "service" with continuous updates and new content. That has to be paid for in some fashion.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Tebonas on August 30, 2018, 01:50:41 AM
Some might not realize this, but you aren't forced to buy DLC for games. It only gets iffy when you realize the company cutting content out of the base game to sell to you (like some of the Dragon Ages and Mass Effects). Other than that - if there are people paying money for emotes and lighting effects, more powerr to them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on August 30, 2018, 02:32:57 AM
For many games with a multi-player component (a la Destiny and Destiny 2 and The Division) you kind of do need to buy the DLC if you don't want to segregated to the MP kiddie pool.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Tebonas on August 30, 2018, 02:51:13 AM
Ah ok, makes sense. I don't do competitive multiplayer, but pay-to-win is definitely not something you want there.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 30, 2018, 07:11:38 AM
With Destiny it's not just the gear you're missing out on, it's whole new content; this is exacerbated by the fact that as most people buy the DLC, participating in the old content becomes more difficult since everyone else isn't doing it anymore.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ironwood on August 30, 2018, 07:45:29 AM
Missing out on Destiny is a blessing, however.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on August 30, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
For many games with a multi-player component (a la Destiny and Destiny 2 and The Division) you kind of do need to buy the DLC if you don't want to segregated to the MP kiddie pool.

Ah ok, makes sense. I don't do competitive multiplayer, but pay-to-win is definitely not something you want there.

With Destiny it's not just the gear you're missing out on, it's whole new content; this is exacerbated by the fact that as most people buy the DLC, participating in the old content becomes more difficult since everyone else isn't doing it anymore.
Yeah in my examples the DLC is not P2W, it's Pay for maps and game modes -- i.e. Pay for Gate access.



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sky on August 30, 2018, 02:33:50 PM
To the original proposition, though...you've identified 2 audiences this /might/ make sense for, DLC-aholics and competitive multiplayers.

Still doesn't mean the casual or even mainstream gamer wants to be stuck paying $80 for a game. Even for things I buy new (for example Far Cry 5), I'd rather wait to see if the DLC is any good before buying (spoilers: it isn't). And the season pass mechanism solves the initial proposition anyway.

So the entire conversation at hand is moot  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on August 30, 2018, 05:39:22 PM
To the original proposition, though...you've identified 2 audiences this /might/ make sense for, DLC-aholics and competitive multiplayers.

Still doesn't mean the casual or even mainstream gamer wants to be stuck paying $80 for a game. Even for things I buy new (for example Far Cry 5), I'd rather wait to see if the DLC is any good before buying (spoilers: it isn't). And the season pass mechanism solves the initial proposition anyway.

So the entire conversation at hand is moot  :why_so_serious:
Except games are now starting to release more than one season pass of content (SFV has 3 I believe), and season passes rarely include 100% of the available-for-purchase content, so that doesn't really solve anything. Plus the "$80 for all" proposition implies a complete game at launch, not most some of the game at launch and the rest trickled out later. If I'm willing to wait, I can already do that and get the GOTY version a year or so later anyway.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Cyrrex on August 31, 2018, 12:40:10 AM
Yeah but....it isn't like you have to buy any of that shit.  I have never bought a season pass for anything, I have only a couple of times bought any real DLC....and usually that's just deeply discounted GOTY editions.  I don't feel that I've missed out on anything, and I sure as shit don't pay 80 bucks for games, not even here in the land of socialism.  I absolutely pay less for video games - on a game for game average - than I did even 20 years ago.  Half? 


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ginaz on August 31, 2018, 08:25:24 PM
The solution, as we all know, is to wait a year or two and buy the whole package for 50% less or more.  I can count on one hand the number of games I bought at release for full price in the last 5-10 years.  That strategy is a little more tricky for multiplayer games but for most others (Assassin's Creed series, Elder Scrolls series etc.) it's probably OK to wait.  I have 700+ games in my Steam library :ye_gods:, so it's not like I wouldn't have anything to play while I waited.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Father mike on October 09, 2018, 04:50:23 PM
This is getting pretty close to dropping and more info is leaking out from press events.

Big reveal today is that mods will not be allowed on public servers and private servers are as far as a year away (Nov 2019)

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-76-how-mods-and-private-servers-work-and-w/1100-6462371/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-76-how-mods-and-private-servers-work-and-w/1100-6462371/)



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on October 09, 2018, 04:58:04 PM
private servers are a year away?

guess i'm not playing fallout

fuckin morons

Edit: Also, that's not exactly what he said. MODS are a year away. Private servers are uh

no information really

Quote
Mods aren't coming to Fallout 76 at launch, however. Hines cautioned that mods may not be supported in Fallout 76 until November 2019 at the soonest. "It's going to be a lot of work. But mods and private servers are definitely coming," Hines said.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on October 09, 2018, 05:00:53 PM
Not having private servers is going to hurt a lot more than not having mods.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Malakili on October 09, 2018, 06:56:00 PM
The whole game rests on private servers. I'm not buying the game until they are in and if I've lost interest by then, well, too bad for them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on October 09, 2018, 08:00:31 PM
This is getting pretty close to dropping and more info is leaking out from press events.

Big reveal today is that mods will not be allowed on public servers and private servers are as far as a year away (Nov 2019)

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-76-how-mods-and-private-servers-work-and-w/1100-6462371/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-76-how-mods-and-private-servers-work-and-w/1100-6462371/)
That's because private servers were not actually in development. It was something they shot out when Fallout fans did not seem to like the idea of being dropped into survival, open-PvP game with a bunch of randos.  Which I'm sure surprised the Fallout 76 developers, since the initial design for this game would have started right around the time Rust and Day Z and the like were popular.

I'd bet real money their griefing "discouragement" system (bounties and the like) is incredibly poorly thought out and works like shit, because it's an afterthought. Because other players are just like Raiders in Fallout, right? Why would you discourage that?


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Cyrrex on October 10, 2018, 01:07:21 AM
Even if it is incredibly well thought out, you simply cannot plan for all the ways human beings can be assholes to each other. 


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Ceryse on October 10, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
From what's been revealed about the anti-griefing system, as I understand it; anyone can shoot anyone at anytime. However, until you shoot back you remain unflagged, and as such take minimal damage. You can still be killed, just takes awhile. When you die you can choose from a couple of actions, such as to respawn for revenge, respawn and ignore, and one other option (I think). When you die you can be looted for your junk items only. If you are killed without fighting back (griefed), the killer is then flagged as a 'murderer', becomes open pvp target for everyone and loses the ability to see anyone else on the map. Additionally a bounty of 50 bottlecops is given to whomever kills said murderer, with the caps coming from the murderer's own wallet.

Other information is the game runs like shit in 4k on appropriate consoles (and most events have had mandatory 4k on XBOX, I believe -- I know one of the most recent ones had such).

Personally, I've had zero interest in playing the game (I don't really play any multiplayer games at all anymore, and I've never been into these sorts of multiplayer games). The level of 'well, that's dumb' decisions from Bethesda has been interesting, though.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Yegolev on October 10, 2018, 11:43:56 AM
When you die you can choose from a couple of actions, such as to respawn for revenge, respawn and ignore, and one other option (I think).

Deinstall.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Soulflame on October 10, 2018, 12:45:15 PM
Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.

Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on October 10, 2018, 12:49:56 PM
The game is literally made by ex mmo and online devs in Austin.

It's not that they didn't do research, it's that the genre is bad.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Rendakor on October 10, 2018, 01:26:27 PM
But this isn't an MMO, this is some sort of small-server Rust/Ark thing right?

Also I love how antiquated their "anti-griefing" system sounds. Noob player is shooting monster; Dickhead player runs through the bullet hail, taking minimal damage because he is not flagged. Dickhead player uses the maximum cooldown time to move to an appropriate distance, then murders Noob player with little consequence since Noob player technically shot first. :uhrr: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 10, 2018, 01:30:28 PM
Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.
Actually in this one case they have -- you get a massive debuff if you can't cover the bounty on yourself.

https://www.vg247.com/2018/10/08/fallout-76-murderer-debuff/

Quote
Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.
Yup.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on October 10, 2018, 04:49:59 PM
Anything other than "tell the human population to fuck off and not affect me" means my money stays where it is, thanks. Because I guarantee you people are building spreadsheets about "how many people you need with this weapon and at this level" to drop someone. Even worse if you can't pass through other people so you will be stuck in place while they unload at you for an hour.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on October 10, 2018, 11:40:28 PM
But this isn't an MMO, this is some sort of small-server Rust/Ark thing right?

Also I love how antiquated their "anti-griefing" system sounds. Noob player is shooting monster; Dickhead player runs through the bullet hail, taking minimal damage because he is not flagged. Dickhead player uses the maximum cooldown time to move to an appropriate distance, then murders Noob player with little consequence since Noob player technically shot first. :uhrr: :why_so_serious:

A few things to keep in mind. It's a huge map with something like 25 players max. And it has come out you can flip on a pacifist setting and opt-out of PVP entirely. Several of the Youtubers at the recent event spoke about it. Also, if you die you don't lose caps, armor or weapons you only lose "junk" so the victor is going to get things like the alarm clocks, lamps and teddy bears you hovered up but nothing else.

I have basically Ultima Online PTSD but I'm not terribly worried about the PVP in this game. If anything, I think the PVP hounds will be crying though that Hunter/Hunted Pip-boy PVP channel may pacify them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 11, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
Pacifist Mode means you can't damage other players (e.g. so you don't get flagged as PvP accidentally). You still will take damage from other people attacking you, though at a reduced level.

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/1045418837171216384

Edit: get


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on October 11, 2018, 10:18:40 AM
That sounds incredibly stupid.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: eldaec on October 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
I expect that idea is too stupid to survive - and pacifist mean will damage immunity before very long.

It isn't as dumb as outcasting, but it is very nearly as dumb as outcasting.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Riggswolfe on October 11, 2018, 02:51:04 PM
Pacifist Mode means you can't damage other players (e.g. so you don't flagged as PvP accidentally). You still will take damage from other people attacking you, though at a reduced level.

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/1045418837171216384


That's not what the people from the event have been saying. Then again, they're mostly Youtubers and Game Journalists so they may have it wrong. Regardless, with only 24 players on a server I'm not worried it'll be a full on UO-style grief-fest. One common complaint I've heard is PVP is almost totally pointless because you don't get much out of it.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 11, 2018, 03:28:33 PM
Regardless, with only 24 players on a server I'm not worried it'll be a full on UO-style grief-fest. One common complaint I've heard is PVP is almost totally pointless because you don't get much out of it.
As long as its possible to harass other players in some fashion people will still do it despite there being minimal rewards in-game. Cause people are assholes.



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Khaldun on October 11, 2018, 08:46:51 PM
I mean, JESUS FUCK, this is a long understood lesson.

1) Make it actually useful to kill people, then everyone but the nice people will swarm to kill people. (Ultima)
2) Make it not particularly useful in any way but allow it? The dickbags who mostly enjoy spoiling everyone else's fun will still do it.

I played on a Conan: Exiles PvE/PvP hybrid server where there was a guy who would log in every single damn night and his job was to find anyone who was just plain "hi, I got home and I'm building something" and kill the fuck out of them repeately. No gain, no value, just the pride of killing them.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Falconeer on October 12, 2018, 03:18:06 AM
You have all been crying about the same stuff for six pages. Kind of entertaining.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on October 12, 2018, 09:14:47 PM
Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.

Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.
Yeah, getting around bounties is easy. Acquire bounty. Have buddy kill you for bounty. Get money back.

Listening to them talk about griefing is like going back in time to UO, where at least they had the excuse of not knowing any better. Everything old is new again, I guess.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: schild on October 12, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
i want people here to stop saying "they" without really digging into who "they" are

This is not Bethesda. This is BattleCry Studios in Austin. This is a studio most famous for having layoffs before releasing the game that actually had their name in it, Battlecry. This is a studio from the city that just won't fucking let the MMOG genre die. Austin is great for many things, but in video games it's barely a pinch hitter despite having more companies than

checks notes

basically anywhere.

I love Austin, but nothing about this game should surprise you in its reckless disregard for not learning from past sins.

Edit: Just to further make my point, the studio directors career is as follows -
Studio Director (Battlecry/Bethsoft Austin) -> Technical Director (EA SWTOR) -> Server Lead (SOE / SWG) -> Manager of Engineering (EA UO/UXO) -> Programmer (OSI / UO)

is anyone here still shocked by these errors? anybody? anybody at all? no? great.



Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sky on October 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM
But dude THIS TIME IT COULD WORK


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on October 12, 2018, 11:42:09 PM
Based on that resume, I'm surprised that guy isn't on Shroud of the Avatar.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Soulflame on October 13, 2018, 09:18:36 AM
You don't even need a friend to kill you, just use your second account.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Threash on October 13, 2018, 11:34:06 AM
If you are putting pvp in your game then it needs to be exclusively about pvp. Not just some bullshit checkmark you are including to appease the spergs.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: calapine on October 13, 2018, 01:56:45 PM
I don't have the heart to read 6 pages now.

So short: Good or Bad? Will you guys play it? Shall I get it?


Thank you!


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 13, 2018, 02:11:04 PM
It sounds like there will be a group here that will play once there are private servers like how we have an f13 PvE Conan server.

The game itself sounds kind of meh so far. MP, minus the PvP stuff, doesn't seem to add that much to the game, and doesn't offset taking out all the NPCs.

IGN preview of the preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87wo38fRAnY&t=68s


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: calapine on October 13, 2018, 02:37:26 PM
It sounds like there will be a group here that will play once there are private servers like how we have an f13 PvE Conan server.

The game itself sounds kind of meh so far. MP, minus the PvP stuff, doesn't seem to add that much to the game, and doesn't offset taking out all the NPCs.

IGN preview of the preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87wo38fRAnY&t=68s


Yap. Watching them. And I totally understand that it was a "dumb" question.

I am sort of struggling to form an opinion at the moment. Does it look to be a 24-player-servers survival game? Meeeeeeeh.

What I want is a"Fallout Online" MMORPG... :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Zetor on October 13, 2018, 03:33:25 PM

What I want is a"Fallout Online" MMORPG... :oh_i_see:
Beware what ye wish for. (https://fonline-reloaded.net)  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Hawkbit on October 13, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
Parts of it look okay, none of it looks amazing. I'm going to bet waiting a year for the game to add content and stabilize will be well worth it. Added bonus would be buying later at a discount, too.

I'll play it at some point solo or with friends I know, but not at launch.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Kageru on October 13, 2018, 07:58:29 PM

It will be fun watching automated game mechanics going up against human nature, not only in PvP but also in breaking any sort of progression. I haven't seen any reason to actually consider playing it though, and if I just wanted a shooter it's hard to imagine Bethseda's clunky mechanics being a positive motivation.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: calapine on October 13, 2018, 08:44:38 PM
Parts of it look okay, none of it looks amazing. I'm going to bet waiting a year for the game to add content and stabilize will be well worth it. Added bonus would be buying later at a discount, too.

I'll play it at some point solo or with friends I know, but not at launch.

Blah blah, I said nothing.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Hawkbit on October 13, 2018, 08:47:20 PM
That statement is equal parts rude and fair. :)


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: calapine on October 13, 2018, 08:51:03 PM
So edited because I am nice person actually, just drink gets me edgy. *hugs*


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: rattran on October 14, 2018, 07:45:50 AM
I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on October 14, 2018, 09:53:32 AM
I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.
I got the bad vibes from the initial unveiling. Big Q&A, lovely video, and....a weird dislike of answering questions about mechanics. A whole bunch of simple, obvious questions -- ranging from "How do you handle PvP? Is it opt-out, opt-in, full PvP, what?" and "Is there questing? How does that work?" and it got evasive answers. And that went on for at least a week or two.

Evading questions generally means you don't think people will like the answers.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Sir T on October 14, 2018, 12:13:16 PM
The other day I was in GW2 and there was this guy deliberatly letting NPCs chase him into the "safe" centre of a Labyrinth just so it would kill all the other players there. Not got any reason, he got no benefit, just to annoy people. And the amount of times I've seen people plont deployable Merchants and stuff onto of crafting stations just to block them from bieng used is insane. So ya, some people are dicks just to be dicks.

By the way, that guy had named his character "Angry Snowflake." I think he had issues  :drill:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 14, 2018, 12:54:07 PM
I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.
I got the bad vibes from the initial unveiling. Big Q&A, lovely video, and....a weird dislike of answering questions about mechanics. A whole bunch of simple, obvious questions -- ranging from "How do you handle PvP? Is it opt-out, opt-in, full PvP, what?" and "Is there questing? How does that work?" and it got evasive answers. And that went on for at least a week or two.

Evading questions generally means you don't think people will like the answers.
To be fair back then they evading answering cause they themselves didn't know the answers -- i.e. they hadn't figured out those details yet.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: HaemishM on October 14, 2018, 01:13:35 PM
If true, that's why the questions are asked so vociferously. Those questions are vital questions because if they aren't considered in the design concept stage, you end up with ridiculous, unworkable bolt-on solutions to game-breaking issues.


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Trippy on October 14, 2018, 01:21:32 PM
It's a "service" game -- they'll figure it out as they go :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Fallout 76
Post by: Morat20 on October 14, 2018, 02:00:19 PM
To be fair back then they evading answering cause they themselves didn't know the answers -- i.e. they hadn't figured out those details yet.
This was back in June, for a game ready to go into Beta in October. These are core design choices, which would have been hammered out in the first stages of design.