f13.net

Is this a thread about Pirates of the Carribean?

Apparently we're celebrating the fact that Puzzle Pirates won an award we don't care about. Didn't you read Bokonon's post? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQohgN6iF0s&mode=related&search=)

Apparently we're celebrating the fact that Puzzle Pirates won an award we don't care about. Didn't you read Bokonon's post? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQohgN6iF0s&mode=related&search=)

I'm not clicking that.....

Sleeper hit of 07-08?

Ship to ship combat looks really unique...

A sand box world (there are classes but just think of the classes as specs in EvE)
RvR style PVP
Avatar combat that uses a form of interlock combat (think matrix online).

So far, the avatar combat seems like it needs work (polish) but the combat is slower, more about what i do but not how many times i do it.

All in all, the game was in no way on my radar, and from watching the vids, talking to people imo, this could be the best mmop coming out.

First off, grunk, don't refer to any game mechanic as being similar to Matrix Online. That's a bad point.

I like the ship combat. It's like a slower, dice-roll based version of Sid Meier's Pirates as far as combat.

The avatar combat is a little wonky right now, but it can get better. I look like a total tool with my little fencing sword, but it's cool anyways.

Very nice character generator. I have a bowler hat.

I'm just hoping for EVE with frilly shirts and fewer cockstabs.

I hope the combat is no way as boring as eve...
...

Why is EVE combat boring?  You die too much?

Why is EVE combat boring?  You die too much?

EVE needs to do something about lowbie solo pve imo.

It's exactly like WoW only without the shiny.

Or not of course, it could not do something about lowbie accessibility and continue to do just fine. Maybe the idea is to encourage people to join a corp and get the fun stuff, in which case, fair enough.


It'll be interesting to see, but judging from the previews Pirates! looks nothing like EVE combat to me.

The overall setup seems more like Daoc, RvR on top of a new take on d20, only without the overlong pve prologue and substituting ports for towers/keeps. This is big part of why Port Royale is drawing my attention off of Warhammer.

I will agree that EVE has little in the way of gameplay, but it's all in the politics and PVP.  If you don't get into that game, it is pretty dull.  So, what I mean is that I am hoping that is has complicated combat systems, complicated player-driven economic structure, and frilly shirts, but without being a semi-broken pet project.

I'm just hoping for EVE with frilly shirts and fewer cockstabs.

Two things:
The whole office (or more precisely myself and one other developer sitting near me) is dying to know, what exactly is a cockstab.  It definitely sounds like something we don't want in our game.

Second, Grunk you talk about "diku mmo design" and I was wondering if you could clarify exactly what you mean.  I never played a diku-mud, but I've played most of the MMOs out there to at least a limited extent.  What are the unifying elements to those games that you find objectionable?

Thats only because they aren't hardcore enouhg  hardcore players would love it, box it with a usb foot that kicks you in the balls at random intervals and you've got somthing almost as good as ffxi

Two things:
The whole office (or more precisely myself and one other developer sitting near me) is dying to know, what exactly is a cockstab.  It definitely sounds like something we don't want in our game.

Second, Grunk you talk about "diku mmo design" and I was wondering if you could clarify exactly what you mean.

Diku, as compared to similar things which aren't diku, boils down to 3 things, really.  Classes, levels, hit points.  Any one by itself isn't damning, but when you have all three, it's pretty much diku.  EveO and UO are both good examples on non-diku MMOs, and most of the rest are diku.  Pick a class, start at level 1, then kill things for exp to get to level 2, at which point your damage/hitpoints all get bigger numbers, but you now need to fight harder mobs in order to get exp in order to level, in a loop.  Until you cap out levels, at which point the devs either laugh, or change the nature of the game.

The subtext of the objections to Diku- games is not simply that they have Levels, Hit points, and classes, but the way those things work together in a system that permits only a single axis of character development: leveling up your one single class.

Would that be a fair assessment?

To put it another way: I could design an FPS that incorporated Levels, Hit points, and classes, but it's already been done, it's called Battlefield 2.  I don't think anyone would call that a Diku-FPS.

I believe the simple explanation is that no one wants a system which encourages leveling more than having fun.

DIKU is more specific than that, but what it boils down to due to implementation.

To put it another way: I could design an FPS that incorporated Levels, Hit points, and classes, but it's already been done, it's called Battlefield 2.  I don't think anyone would call that a Diku-FPS.

I think we're arguing our way to the mechanic of blocking players from content based on how much time they've played as what "sucks".

i like a skill-based game, and i define skill as the subset of skills which i like.

FPS-style gameplay suffers from many obvious shortcomings:

8. Etc.

There's split between preference for first person perspective and 3rd person perspective. While theoretically the game can try to include both, in PvP environment it leads to people whining they have to play in 3rd person just to be on equal footing (there's certain drawbacks to 1st person view which are reason why this split in preferences exists in the first place)

So my perception here is that you're not actually objecting to Levels, Classes, and Hit points, but the way those systems act.

Levels are just an abstraction, but a level based system where the relative levels of two combatants is the deciding factor sucks.

Classes are just a way of grouping abilities together, but a class based system where one (or more) classes have an insurmountable advantage, and where you cannot freely switch between those classes, sucks.

Hit points are another abstraction, but a system where hit points increase dramatically as you level leads to the same "level over all" problem.

To put it another way: I could design an FPS that incorporated Levels, Hit points, and classes, but it's already been done, it's called Battlefield 2.  I don't think anyone would call that a Diku-FPS.

The subtext of the objections to Diku- games is not simply that they have Levels, Hit points, and classes, but the way those things work together in a system that permits only a single axis of character development: leveling up your one single class.

Would that be a fair assessment?

You see, the BF2 analogy is where it kinda falls short. If am a higher rank then you in BF2, that does not change the dynamics in which we can play together. In Diku-rooted mmos, levels are restrictions… I think EQ2’s mentor system, came close to trying to address this but imo you can’t fix it. But the bottom line is that, the levels pretty much dictate what exactly you’re doing that night. This is across the board for all mmos. I find funny when I look at sigils fellowship system, which imo… not only caters to the level slaves but more so, increases the insanity gap to a whole new level… its just, that Vanguard is very easy (don’t believe the hype lol).

Bottom line, diku games are built to keep you playing like the crack whore you are. Wana play with your buddies? Well shit, you better fucken stay up those two extra nights to catch up! Wana be in that uber guild? Well shit, you better go camp that mob to get that uber shield that they require you to have! You wana OMGWTFPWN someone in a 13 year old pvp battlefield, you better go raid that instance for the rest of your life! Where as in BF2, the fact that I have unlocked a certain weapon that you don’t have, does NOT in any way shape or form, diminish your ABILITY to kill me…

So, as a huge fan of BF2 and someone who has played to many mmos… your analogy is completely fucken wrong.

EvE imo, the the clear example of how far you can go when you break down the walls that the whole Diku model puts up.

IMO, I don’t play EvE atm, and I play more of a diku style game that happens to incorporate the skill based talents that we see in EvE… so I am not going to blindly say that skill based systems that Ralph had a heavy hand in creating is the final solution… imo a heavy emphasis on sand box along with a class system that simply defines ones specialization is the correct route to take. IMO, in my mind the perfect mmo is a sand box game that has FUN game play and thought provoking game systems. I could really care less what setting it’s in (but a break from fantasy is long over due in this over saturated genre).


The reason devs follow diku model(s), is because it gives them a crystal clear outline in how to design the game. Things like character balance and such, a fucken after thought… as in a sand box game, character balance should be treated… imo, well fuck character balance lol. IMO broken content is often the most fun… often, some class is over powered and hence often that class is very fun lol. Imo, often, what that means is the game designer actually did something right (which is rare). Imo, what that designer should do, is instead of going to the CVS server and destroying, maybe why not figure out how you can bring the other archetypes / classes up to fucken spec… this is tactic that square soft has done, the only problem with these fuckers, is that they take a year to do that lol.

 The genre needs to move in one of two directions. Either the direction where it becomes much more strategic or much more twitch (I don’t mean FPS, I mean more like Zelda… could you imagine a OOT mmo…).

PoTBS… the boat combat and the avatar combat aint fun, it fails. At the end of it all, our goal is fucken kill things. That’s what we do… all this, world simulation shit is really neat (pointing at EvE) but if the act of me killing something is not visceral and compelling it fails (EvE).

(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/801/readlostom1.jpg)

and explain to me, o great mod... why have i lost?

It's Raph, short for Raphael, not Ralph.

Otherwise, I agree with you on some points. Game imbalance doesn't necessarily mean "broken". We've never played a completely well balanced game with longevity, because every game gets new content, obsoleted old content, and fundamental changes to drive up expansion/content sales. There are only degrees of brokenness.

The problem is the time factor. Players who don't have a lot of time don't want to waste it all playing a game ill-effective at certain points (endgame, PvP, etc). This was part of the smartness of WoW: dozens of classes are not a selling point because the veterans of the genre know that means 5 of those classes will be complete, 10 will be on some sort of nerf/buff chopping block, and the rest will get eventually ignored by overworked developers who look at the number of people playing and say it ain't worth it because so few do (because they quit because the class was not done/broken). Better to launch fewer classes and offer diversity within them. WoW Talents add a lot of complexity, but so very not as bad as the Skills + Boxes + Mastery + Archetypes + Professions + other of, say, SWG, nor the spec/sub/sub of EQ2.

Further, things like EQ2/CoX mentoring are good features but mitigate the usefulness of time-based levels. They are there in recognition of a system that segregates casual friend groups. It'd be better to offer short, medium and longterm rewards that are compelling and time-based but which do not segregate players by level.

FPS UI, player dexterity with items acquired through adventuring, RPG trappings, Fantasy setting. Go!

Yeah i kinda blew hes name... but I really dont get why there is this constant reminder of the "casual" crowd. Does it really matter how long it takes me to reach that platau as long as i actually had fun doing it? and as long as it actually matters? I mean, this is where you people just completley miss the boat. Dont you have a desire to be unique and to make a real effect on a games world... in a game like wow, your a clone and the world is 100% static... but hey, you can logon for 30 mins and get 10 pelts... GG

Yeah i kinda blew hes name... but I really dont get why there is this constant reminder of the "casual" crowd. Does it really matter how long it takes me to reach that platau as long as i actually had fun doing it? and as long as it actually matters? I mean, this is where you people just completley miss the boat. Dont you have a desire to be unique and to make a real effect on a games world... in a game like wow, your a clone and the world is 100% static... but hey, you can logon for 30 mins and get 10 pelts... GG

Does it really matter how long it takes me to reach that platau as long as i actually had fun doing it? and as long as it actually matters?

and explain to me, o great mod... why have i lost?

The Grunk is making some real progress here.

Yeah, of course it does.  If it doesn't take a long time, it's not hardcore and someone will make fun of your failure at life.  Also, it all matters as long as you are getting better at killing.  Oh, the sweet, sweet killing... like what you'll find in Square-Enix's astounding online fantasy game, Final Fantasy XI!  With Retsyn!

Every time I think you're ready to take seriously, you go ahead and make some dumbass post like that. Are you trying to have a serious conversation here or are you just pushing for a ban and measuring how long it takes. We want serious conversation here, which is why we keep trying. But part of that is understanding there are many points of view. You are not right. Neither are you wrong. If you're not mature enough to understand that, go yell on some other soapbox.

But to try and have a serious discussion again:

"Suck" and "don't have the time" are two different things. This is the only genre where in the early days Time almost guaranteed success. That does not make you a better gamer. That does not make you a better player. The only way to balance Time is to have more of it. Some can, by reducing real world commitments. Some don't think that's worth it. But they try anyway. And you know what? WoW came out and clocked everyone else because they recognized there are way-the-eff many more people out there who want to play these games without such strict time requirements than ubers like yourself who think everyone else should be less fortunate than yourself.

It doesnt matter how how many rolls Blizzard puts on the rung, WoW is still shit.
Why is that? why is it, I am one thats insulted on this board. Thats a fact. Everytime I try to talk, someone injects some jack ass comment.

The issue is simple. You people take every chance you get, to run up to the highest mountain and scream.

"WOW IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE! EVERY GAME SHOULD BE JUST LIKE IT!"

It doesnt matter how how many rolls Blizzard puts on the rung, WoW is still shit.
Why is that? why is it, I am one thats insulted on this board. Thats a fact. Everytime I try to talk, someone injects some jack ass comment.

Why is that? why is it, I am one thats insulted on this board. Thats a fact. Everytime I try to talk, someone injects some jack ass comment.

My take on the losing was that people who read that entire post lost, not grunk.

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1306/englishab9.jpg)

The issue is simple. You people take every chance you get, to run up to the highest mountain and scream.

"WOW IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE! EVERY GAME SHOULD BE JUST LIKE IT!"

Bottom line, PoTBS looks like fun :3

Wallow in your significance.

Looking forward to it.  I signed up for the beta 2 years ago.  I probably was a little too honest and put down a reason for trying it as "I was to see if it sucks or not before I shell out $50."

See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_the_Burning_Sea).

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

Is it just me or did this game just kinda fall off the interest level.

Hopefully for them they beat Conan/WAR to launch.

Is it just me or did this game just kinda fall off the interest level.

Hopefully for them they beat Conan/WAR to launch.

Hard to get excited about it when I am not sure what it is.  I'd love WAR-style podcasts explaining the major points.  You are making a kick ass game right? Show us and explain it.  Bullet points just don't sell it anymore.  Especially if you are non-diku.

Explain the diku-ness of the game. I've not been watching the game like a hawk but everything I'd seen said not a diku to this point

I'm reading on Wikipedia that you can hit "rank 50" in about 2 months of casual play.  Does that seem anywhere near accurate?

I'm reading on Wikipedia that you can hit "rank 50" in about 2 months of casual play.  Does that seem anywhere near accurate?

Also, what does this game offer for explorers?  On the one hand I hear "you get a detailed map that comes with the game", but then I hear that map has cryptological clues on it for deciphering hidden quests?  Is this the kind of stuff that the beta testers have already been through and will be on PotBS's version of Thottbott after a couple of days?  Would there be a role, in PotBS' world, for someone interested in whatever ship is very fast and evasive, and perhaps conducting recon?  Is that possible, or am I completely misunderstanding their PvP dynamic?

If the game as a good economy, the fast ships should make good blockade runners if nothing else.

If the game as a good economy, the fast ships should make good blockade runners if nothing else.

On paper it looks like THE MMORPG I want to play. let's read the comments after this week. I fear I will not be able to try it myself

I think you meant to say: On paper nearly every MMOG GAME thing looks good :(

MMOG's tend to hold my attention a lot longer than console games.  Even the bad ones. 

On paper nearly every MMOG looks good :(

Age of Conan *could* be really interesting and I'd say that on paper it rocks. Especially because of its PvP. How come it doesn't appeal to you?

I hate online games in which I can't play with my brother and with my friends because we are on different levels. It really kills the purpose of online gaming for me.

 :-D

Yeah, they also speeded combat up at the same time. They now advertise "Blistering Naval Combat" and "snap decisions while planning what’s going to happen in thirty seconds." Doesn't sound much like the Age of Sail to me. I suspect Nelson planned his combat moves a bit more than 30 seconds ahead.

Yeah, there's realism, then there's "hey, let's make this a bit more entertaining".  Most people would likely enjoy the second option.

What we really want to know is if, during this week-long ship to ship combat fest, our characters can wear tophats.


Is anyone really looking forward to this?

I was excited ~two years ago, back when we were playing Cid's Pirates!  Someone want to announce a ninja MMO and ruin it for completeness sake?

I want to try to get excited for this one, but everytime I see the actual avatar combat, it just kills it.

Wait. There's video of the avatar combat?

Oh dear god. The sheer number of munchkins in a ninja MMOG would be staggering.

I was really looking forward to a Sid Meier's Pirates meets EvE game. I wanted the fight for territory, the economy, and perhaps even the skill system of EvE combined with the simple pirates sea combat system with forty ships added. That is a game I would have gladly paid for. Unfortunately, it seems they have tried to mainstream the game too much for my tastes by putting in a leveling system, a somewhat bland crafting system, and territorial control that gets reset when one side scores enough points.

I was interested, but now I will just wait to read the reviews after it is launched and I do not expect it to be positive.

True, realistic would be way too slow.  But I'm talking the difference between a three minute fight or a ten minute fight. The slower version would give you time to consider more options before making your move. For me, its those choices that are a big part of the fun.

All I can say is, damn you NDA! Here, read this:

http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10360

I think it is a pretty good summary of how combat feels.

How many pitched huge 0.0 battles happened in Eve beta :)

WHAT: Pirates of the Burning Sea, the MMORPG featuring high seas action and adventure in a bold world of pirates and plunder, is scheduled to be available for pre-order starting Tuesday, October 23rd at participating retail locations.

PRE ORDER

FEATURES: Players who pre-order the game will receive the following:

* An invitation to the "Pre-Boarding Party" allowing them access to the live game up to 15 days prior to launch, and the ability to keep their characters, skills and equipment after launch with purchase of game and paid subscription (characters will have a level cap of 20 during the pre-boarding party)
* Captain's Best Friend - a blue and yellow parrot
* Mighty Blades - Swedish Rapier, Old World Steel or Musketeer's Matching Blades (depending upon which fighting style is selected)
* Original Game Soundtrack CD - 60 minutes of pirate themed music (comes in pre-order box)

WHEN: Pirates of the Burning Sea is scheduled to be available for preorder in North America on Tuesday, October 23, 2007. A European pre-order date has not been set at this time.

For more pre-order information on Pirates of the Burning Sea log onto www.piratesoftheburningsea.com

This is not the news that we wanted to bring you, but there’s been a hold up in the pre-order process. It turns out that the release of the preorder box is being delayed while the retailers and SOE finish processing all of the returns of Gods & Heroes preorder boxes. Obviously, the cancellation of Gods & Heroes after the preorder boxes were already in stores is a very unusual situation and it is taking a bit longer than expected to work out the kinks.

To give the retailers and SOE time to finish processing those returns, the PotBS preorder box is being delayed until the week of November 13th. 

We’re really sorry for the confusion, but we’re fixing it and then we can get the boxes in your hands.

Our friends at SOE are also very sorry. This has been a difficult week for them as most are working remotely out of hotel rooms and friends’ houses safely away from the fires. Some are getting back into the office today, and with their help we were able to sort out the issues involved in the preorder delay.

Before the preorder release date, we’ll make sure we have all the information you need: when the boxes will be in stores, what stores you can find it in, and where you can order the preorder box online. These are the three big questions you’ve been asking on our forums, and now that not quite so many things are burning (!) we will be able to get you those answers in time for the release.

Just a couple more weeks and then we’ll be there. Land is in sight.

It turns out that the release of the preorder box is being delayed while the retailers and SOE finish processing all of the returns of Gods & Heroes preorder boxes.

And when the counter schmuck tells me they're not pulling the cancelled-game box from the shelf, I ask to speak to the manager. Civic duty and all that.

Last week I went into my local EB and saw Gods and Heroes pre-order boxes on the shelves.  I smiled and told the clerk that the the game had been cancelled, and for my altruistic, :awesome_for_real: sense of civic duty   received that blank stare that we are all so familiar with.  A couple of days later, the boxes were still there.

Remember when people thought this game was going to be awesome?  Like three years ago when there was no ground combat and it was just going to be EvE with pirate ships, less travel time and more skill-based pvp?

The fuck happened?

Remember when people thought this game was going to be awesome?  Like three years ago when there was no ground combat and it was just going to be EvE with pirate ships, less travel time and more skill-based pvp?

The fuck happened?

My feelings about pirates and naval combat are analogous to WUA's feelings about Star Wars, so I will likely buy it. No comment on the current state of the game.  :nda:

I hope your feelings about pirates and naval combat are strong enough to overcome :nda:

I figure that my hypothetical bias against PotBS is due to the fact that I like EVE enough to play it.  I realized this morning that this game would probably be great for people who liked the ideas behind EVE but not the hardcore execution.  In theory.

You know, I actually think the best determinant is if you tried EVE and why you left.  If it was lack of avatars, too much complexity or lack of cartoony graphics, I figure you're fine with PotBS.  If you didn't like the core ideas behind EVE, stay away.

I liked everything about EVE except for one small thing: it wasn't fun to play. 

Is this POTBS a game for me?

Is this POTBS a game for me?

So apparently they just went ahead and let all this round of stress testers in as beta testers.  You didn't even have to get to level 5.

I've always been curious about how popular pirate / sailing MMOs would be with the MMO player. It's not like there's a huge stack of pirate games or large numbers of pirate simulations that exist. It's always seemed to me to be a very, very niche genre, especially compared to the genres of fantasy, sci-fi and modern.

... unless someone based expected player demand for pirate games by googling "pirate +game" and just looking at the number of listings that were available.

That's how hard up they are for people actually playing their game.

Actually if you look around...there are more and more everyday. And Im not just talking about the new russian pirate sim that came out. There's like 3 asian f2p pirate mmos. It's really weird.

I've always been curious about how popular pirate / sailing MMOs would be with the MMO player. It's not like there's a huge stack of pirate games or large numbers of pirate simulations that exist. It's always seemed to me to be a very, very niche genre, especially compared to the genres of fantasy, sci-fi and modern.

... unless someone based expected player demand for pirate games by googling "pirate +game" and just looking at the number of listings that were available.

That's how hard up they are for people actually playing their game.

If you can't win over people for free, good luck getting money from them.

I've always been curious about how popular pirate / sailing MMOs would be with the MMO player. It's not like there's a huge stack of pirate games or large numbers of pirate simulations that exist. It's always seemed to me to be a very, very niche genre, especially compared to the genres of fantasy, sci-fi and modern.

... unless someone based expected player demand for pirate games by googling "pirate +game" and just looking at the number of listings that were available.

How well did the Sid Meier's Pirates! remake fare, commercially and critically? That's your answer.

How well did the Sid Meier's Pirates! remake fare, commercially and critically? That's your answer.

Didn't it release about 2 weeks after WOW?

Yeah...

Actually if you look around...there are more and more everyday. And Im not just talking about the new russian pirate sim that came out. There's like 3 asian f2p pirate mmos. It's really weird.

Survey says you're wrong as fuck. WoW was 11/04, Pirates! was summer 05.

Hey, you're a douchebag.

Released
Nov 22, 2004

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/sid-meiers-pirates- (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/sid-meiers-pirates-)

Also, you're wrong as fuck. DISMISSED!

I saw the preorder box for this up at frys earlier, and the graphics looked absolutely fucking horrible.  Are there any current screenshots out there? I demand teh shiny in all my games.

Also, can I be a ninja? Pirates are lame, everyone knows ninjas would totally rock their faces.

Maybe in beta but I challeneg anyone to name a game that didn't nerf the exp gain before going live. In almost every instance that pre-live exp nerf was later reversed in some way. Only CoH held firm and they nerfed exp not once, but twice: pre-live and then post-live ("purple nerf").

Not so much of a douchebag that I don't know when I stand corrected. Maybe I snagged the Xbox release date.

Or it might just be that we ran the stress test and the servers held up great so we're bringing in more people.  One of the two.

Regarding the NDA: believe me I want it dropped as much or more than any of you do.  Like or hate our game I want to hear people's opinions unfiltered by the fact that it's a private beta forum. 

Graphics kinda suck because they picked the engine circa 2003 and boasted how it can output 500,000 triangles in one scene. Now in 2007 (soon to be 2008) when everyone forgot wtf a triangle is and when you can use mapping techniques to create amazing things like EVE Online: Trinity for MMOs and every single player game is all about effects and shaders, HDRs, motion blurs, blooms and even more shaders and even, even more effects, PotBS tries to look awesome by throwing 500,000 triangles at us. It fails horribly because noone really notices that ceiling is actually made of fine mesh of wooden planks (especially when proper mapping would look much better), but everyone will notice that hook you can wear is actually rectangular (check on screenies).

Textures and polygons are two different things, there are still polygons under all those shaders, HDR lights and normal maps and etc...  500,000 polygons hasn't been a lot for years though.

Yeah but with good textures and good normal mapping you can make a few polygons go a long way. At least I think that's what he was driving at.

Good thing they use both a?

Closed beta is ending this weekend; should be open beta on Monday AFAIK. Come one, come all.

Uh oh.  WAP is in SO MUCH TROUBLE!  I bet he gets yelled at.

http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10483

No more NDA.

http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10483

No more NDA.

Now that the NDA is down, it sounds more and more like the game is shockingly similar to... Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean MMO.  Anyone who's played PotBS and a recent build of PotC care to tell me how I'm wrong?  All the strengths and weaknesses sound the same, with the exception that I actually kinda enjoyed PotC's avatar combat, and it's backed by a world-IP with interesting potential and a company with incredibly deep pockets.

Hell, after the latest watering-down, even the rough approaches to PvP sound the same.  The only tangible difference seems to be PotC's simplified economics, but I never played MMOs to bake bread anyhow.

They don't actually reset the servers monthly (or aren't planning to), right? I thought there was a certain amount "capture points" that all sides can accumulate, and when it reaches a certain amount, the parent nations call a treaty that resets the colonies' ownership.

Right. The concern is that there's no current mechanic to balance the sides. In closed beta, for some reason, the Spanish were the bullies on the block. I don't know if they ever swept the map but they were definitely in the driver's seat.

EVE would be more casual friendly if you make the gameplay faster and FIX THE UI.

Right. The concern is that there's no current mechanic to balance the sides. In closed beta, for some reason, the Spanish were the bullies on the block. I don't know if they ever swept the map but they were definitely in the driver's seat.

I can't read all those posts, but let me say one thing really quickly: the MOG game-reset is long overdue.  Persistent worlds mean static worlds in practice, and designing in a reset (used in other non-graphical-MUD territorial-conquest games) is the Right Thing To Do.  Risk would suck if you never got to start over.

I. Also, there are no 'linking' quests, at least on the french side. I just did every quest in the first town until I wasn't offered anything else.

Oh. I ran out of quests before I hit 5, since apparently a major part of the chain is completely broke.

On thing that does bug me is that I'm still not clear on where the classes 'fit'. Ship Captains get big ships, Privateers little ships... but I keep hearing how Privateers can act like Pirates sometimes but I'm damned if I know how. Freetraders are the main crafters but everyone can craft. Pirates are a catch all but don't seem to be great at any one thing; I'm concerned about their ability to take and hold ports since they don't have the group skills Captains have. It all seems a bit muddled.

Oh. I ran out of quests before I hit 5, since apparently a major part of the chain is completely broke.

So much potential, then it was turned into level based diku crap.

What class/faction were you playing? I have never had that problem. Did you go and talk to the priest and the magistrate of the town? They always have a few early quests. Hell, you can hit level 3 just doing the tutorials and meet & greets at this point.

I know what it is. I don't have downs.

Shit like this should absolutely be working this close to release and the fact that it's broken tells a lot.

It's only in the Caribbean.  The ports look somewhat different but mostly variations of the same theme.  But I didn't get to see all that many ports, to be fair.  Maybe 4 or 5.

Anything like hidden lagoons or some-such?  How does the land portion of the game figure in, exploration wise -- could you carve yourself out a little village deep into the jungle of some uninhabited island?

With whatever teleports and whatnot they've got going on, roughly how long does it take to cross from one side of the game world to another?  Is there any sort of 'no man's land', in the sense that it's not just a high level hunting ground or something like that, but actually relatively uninhabited?

I play MMOs to re-enact Deliverance, and the encroachment of civilization into all corners of the game world is  :oops:

I want to know, and I am dead serious, if there's any reason to play this over Bounty Bay Online (http://bbo.yusho.de/en/Startpage/) / Voyage Century (http://www.voyagecenturyonline.com/) (which is free).

Opens for Fileplanet subscribers Friday, and for the rest of the unwashed masses next week sometime.

Sorry. I'm just allergic to shopping, and prone to challenge the idea that a game funded by buying stuff in a store is "free".

There was quite a bit of discussion on the beta boards comparing VCO to PotBS, but I didn't follow all the details. Being RMT supported would take VCO out of the running for me.

Anyone tried both and can comment?

It can be done terribly but many games do a fine job of balancing the cash shop items and making it viable to play for free or play for much less then $15/mo without feeling gimped or being gimped at all.

Just got an email that I've been accepted to the open beta. Why I got this early, I don't know, but I'm glad to finally try the thing out.

I think either a Pirate or a pissy Frenchie is what I'll be making.

The problem, at least for me, is that none of the cash-for-goods games in the West seem to be built with the same amount of care given to the immersive properties that retain players. There may be a bunch coming, but what today has the same level of polish and dynamic action of a WoW. And yea, that's the baseline a cash-for-goods game is up against.

I'm the first to note the scores of millions of accounts microtrans-based games like Audition and Maplestory have. But neither one of them can hold a candle in terms of quality immersion to anything from CoX on forward as far as I'm concerned.

I'm just a market of one of course.

The problem, at least for me, is that none of the cash-for-goods games in the West seem to be built with the same amount of care given to the immersive properties that retain players. There may be a bunch coming, but what today has the same level of polish and dynamic action of a WoW. And yea, that's the baseline a cash-for-goods game is up against.

I'm the first to note the scores of millions of accounts microtrans-based games like Audition and Maplestory have. But neither one of them can hold a candle in terms of quality immersion to anything from CoX on forward as far as I'm concerned.

Were those names generated for you?

Although, I have to say, Perfect World really impressed me. Take a look at it if you can cause its art, world and features are definitely on par with western AAA titles. I would love to know how much it costed to develop, especially compared to western AAA MMOs.

Berlin, 06.12.2007: Starting today, it’s even easier to become a world famous pirate, explore the seven seas and collect treasures beyond imagination in the award-winning MMORPG Bounty Bay Online. The game client – previously sold for 20 Pound Sterling or 30 Euros – now is completely free. It can be downloaded from the official website ( www.BountyBayOnline.com) and it also includes a 10 days free trial period.

The change to a “free client” business model is a way to improve BBO game-play by offering a slick, easy way to get into the game. Players who already bought the boxed version of the game will be compensated with a free month playing time.

Also starting today, the first free add-on for Bounty Bay Online called “Storm Island” is available. This add-on will be included in the content update applied automatically when the players log in. It contains a new tropical island close to the North American coast. There, evil creatures wait guarding precious treasures.

Tangent: EVE's UI gets upgraded tomorrow, along with teh shinee! Not the best time for PotBS to start open beta, really.  :grin:

Alright, I gave it another shot with the X to interact info and I'm enjoying myself.

DrewC, you win this round.

It's pretty close to a good game, and will probably be playable and fun within 6 months of release.

I'm in as a pirate named Haemish MacLennan. Course, I only got to play at lunch and so am only level 2. Graphic performance in the starter town is pretty shitty.

I couldn't get into it right away.  The swashbuckling quests you do as a noob were very lame.  Plus the camera doesn't move fast enough with my mouse and it's very annoying.

I gotta give it another shot though.

I'll give it a shot when I don't have to be a Fileplanet subscriber.

Me too.

I'm hoping my Raedon 9800 and 2gig RAM will be able to manage at a bearable level. I expect not, though. :(

Go into the preferences and dial the Visible Avatars WAY down (like under 20). You will still see the important ones, and your performance will skyrocket. It will still get choppy in some spots, but once you get out of Marsh Harbour it will go away.

I'm hoping my Raedon 9800 and 2gig RAM will be able to manage at a bearable level. I expect not, though. :(

Edit: maybe it's like DAoC and it's only per server.  I wouldn't know since there's only one server up for beta.  Still something you'd think they'd have some documentation on.

Pirate captain Diego El Guapo. I'm not on too much since too much time at work plus not wanting to get overly played out on it in beta but look me up. We are pirates, aren't we?

I have not played in a while and can't update my client.

I am stuck at "Connecting ..." #XX

XX being the number of connection tries, I think.

Spanish Privateer, because everyone wants to be a pirate.  And I get royal sanction to pick on the English Navy.

I can already call the pirates as being where all the tards are going to hang out at release. Chat's already a cesspool exceeding Barrens level quality.

True but I've been surprised how many people are in the open beta and speaking highly of it. They may have more cash flow than anyone anticipated going in.

Stress test key worked as an open beta key.  Fileplanet download no longer available for non subscribers.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah. I have a key but no place to download it. :(

Could it be a sleeper hit in the MMOG market?

There is also what seems on first blush a robust economic game in there as well.

I am more worried about the SOE side of things, to be honest. There have been more problems with the launcher/patcher than anything else.

No, it's still going to be a huge release day patch. Game went gold over a -month- ago. I've heard that it's going to be a 2gig release patch.

We are not going to have a 2 gig first day patch.

I don't know exactly how big it's going to be, and obviously it's going to be bigger than we'd like it to be (because in a perfect world it would be 0), but it will not be 2 gigs, nor even a single gig.  In fact I doubt it will come close to a gig.

The big space hog in most games is art assets, and we have not and are not changing those between gold master and the release day patch.

Question though, I remember playing one of the newbie pirate quests where I had to kill some pirates in some fort or something and my health didn't regen.  Was I missing something?

Pirates are awfully fun to play, but the tard factor frightens me. If I go national, it will definitely be Spanish. I really wanna run a pirate society called Rhymin' and Stealin' though  :oh_i_see:

I’ve been spending a lot of time reading the feedback from beta users posting here on MMORPG now that the NDA has been lifted, and after some discussion with Kevin (Isildur) Maginn, our Lead Designer, I’d like to take a few moments to address some of the common concerns that have been raised in these posts. A lot of it is good feedback for us to hear (and has been echoed in the beta forums as well), so I’d like to call out a few of the issues and either explain why it’s that way (if it’s not going to change) or how we’re going to address it.
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The first and most frequent comment has been about our use of instancing. As many posters have noticed, we do a lot of it. More in fact than we’d like, but much of it is for good reason. The underlying reason for most of our instancing is that a continuous world doesn’t work well for a ship based game set in an even remotely realistically scaled Caribbean. We started out, several years ago, trying to do just that. We had realistic speeds, realistic distances between islands, realistic island sizes, etc. It was *horrible*. Taking 45 minutes to an hour to sail between even nearby islands was excruciatingly dull. There’s a lot of empty water out there, and crossing it in real time was work, not a game. On the flip side, if we made the sailing time for movement between islands reasonable, the combat portion of the game became maniacally fast and arcade like, not at all the strategic and tactical battle we were trying to build. The answer, then, was to use two different timescales. On the sailing map where you move between islands, the travel speeds are unrealistically quick, the geography is more iconic than realistic, and the view is more bird’s eye than crow’s nest. When a battle needs to be fought, we drop you in to an instance where you can fight it out at normal speed, with more detailed terrain if you’re near land, and at a view that is close in to your ship for excitement.

Given this model, though, we discovered that zoning from a port to the open sea, only to sail a very short distance before entering a mission instance, was two annoying load screens instead of one. So we moved to having nearby missions available directly from each port. This sped things up for the player considerably, but at the expense of having as many people sailing on the open sea at once. Of course since they were only popping in and out for a moment each, we didn’t think it a great loss.

The other advantage to instancing is that it gives us a lot more control over the user experience. We have a much better idea of what the player is going to show up with, and can tune things accordingly, without being as worried about a random level 50 sailing by and blowing the enemy out of the water. We also eliminate the problems of spawn camping or ninjaing of targeted NPCs because only you and your party can enter the instance. Like the warehouse or other door missions in CoH/CoV, once inside it’s all yours.

It’s not a perfect system, of course. You don’t get to watch other people fight as much as we’d like, and if you want to sail around helping noobs you’re not grouped with it’s hard to do so.

Another common comment, in various forms, is about the variety of content in the game. People have mentioned ports, missions types, and terrain as places that we need to add more variety, and we agree with this completely. Earlier in our development, when having avatars at all was a post-ship feature, the towns were expected to be very simple. When we decided to add a customizable avatar you could walk around, we started adding ports you could enter. But even then we had expected them to be mostly socialization spaces and a place to pick up new missions. It was only when we started adding avatar combat to the game that we started extending the number and variety of avatar spaces available. Our art team has been going gonzo creating new ones, but we knew we weren’t going to be able to have unique ones for every port. We decided instead to cover all the basic sizes and types of ports in the first pass, and now we’re going back and adding more custom ones with kind of a top down approach. We’ve already done Port Royal (the British Capital) and Tortuga (the Pirate Capital), and our artists are already at work on Point-a-Pitre (the French Capital) for soon after ship. San Juan (the Spanish Capital) will follow after that, and then we’ll start work on replacing other town with more unique content. At the same time, we’ll be working on creating more mission spaces, particularly for the avatar missions. Since we added avatar combat relatively late in development, we didn’t have time to create as large a variety of mission rooms as we’d like. Naturally, our content/writing team is clamoring for more, and the artists will no doubt rise to the occasion.

Missions are in a similar state. We’ve got a great set of missions, over a thousand per nations, but as the beta testers have noticed they’re not all unique. Many are customized for each nation, but are essentially the same. Most are based on a set of mission templates that cover the standard types of missions (escorts, kills, delivery, etc) that appear in most MMO’s (although ours have much better writing J). Many however, are unique to a nation or a class, and some are more hand crafted, such as the Role Playing Story Arc (which got a devlog of it’s own on our site). It’s these unique and hand crafted missions that are our template for the future. We consider everything we’ve done so far a great baseline to get things going, enough to ensure that you’ve always got something to go out and do, some task drawing you on to the next port, and a goal to strive for. Now that the Caribbean has been strewn with missions, the content team is free to do work on more varied and interesting stuff, and they’re looking forwards to the task.

And finally there’s the speed of progression through the game and the end-game itself. As one poster noted, progression is currently way too fast (he mentioned getting to max level in 11 days). That’s already been tuned down, and will probably be tuned down more by ship. Isildur has pretty fine control over how much XP can be gained per hour of play, and how much is required for each level, so we can tune how many hours of play it takes to move up the ladder towards 50. My expectation is that we will keep the first 10-12 levels fairly quick, to get you some skills and access to a better ship such as the Mediator Cutter. Above that things will probably slow down quite a bit, although we don’t want to make it overly grindy. Our goal is to make the progression reasonable for a person who plays a moderate amount of time, rather than trying to slow down the unstoppable hardcore and making everyone else suffer. But even given that, we agree that 11 days is way too short.

Once you get to 50, it’s another matter. As has been noted, we currently have a limited number of things for maxed out players to do, namely the economic game and port conquest. While port conquest can be a ton of fun, we do need more and are already planning it. We’ve got plans for more raid style content, difficult repeatable mission aimed at experienced groups that can work together. We recently redid one of our early missions (Red Tide, which you can get at level 6-8) as an example of this, and it rocks. We plans to do many more of these, dispersed throughout the level range, with a large chunk of them at 50. Similar to the Task Forces that CoH uses. Several things that are under consideration include player port governance, society vs society grudge match battles, and of course the ever popular player owned socialization spaces (such as a customizable captain’s cabin you can invite friends to).

When all these things happen, is of course, up in the air. All these features go into the Thunderdome, and only some of them come out alive! But we want you to know that we’ve heard your comments, and are doing our best to address them, both now and in the future.

As one poster noted, progression is currently way too fast (he mentioned getting to max level in 11 days). That’s already been tuned down, and will probably be tuned down more by ship.

I still feel like I barely know what I'm doing

As one poster noted, progression is currently way too fast (he mentioned getting to max level in 11 days). That’s already been tuned down, and will probably be tuned down more by ship. Isildur has pretty fine control over how much XP can be gained per hour of play, and how much is required for each level, so we can tune how many hours of play it takes to move up the ladder towards 50. My expectation is that we will keep the first 10-12 levels fairly quick, to get you some skills and access to a better ship such as the Mediator Cutter. Above that things will probably slow down quite a bit, although we don’t want to make it overly grindy. Our goal is to make the progression reasonable for a person who plays a moderate amount of time, rather than trying to slow down the unstoppable hardcore and making everyone else suffer. But even given that, we agree that 11 days is way too short.

Our goal is to make the progression reasonable for a person who plays a moderate amount of time, rather than trying to slow down the unstoppable hardcore and making everyone else suffer. But even given that, we agree that 11 days is way too short.

Yes, there it is. Taking an extreme example and declaring it 'too short'. There in lies the problem.

That does mean that a well equipped level 50 is going to have a huge advantage over a level 20 player, but at least the level 20 player can hit him.

But even given that, we agree that 11 days is way too short.

Anyone remember how this turned out for DAoC? In essence you still have a max-level or bust (especially with level limited equipment).  Also, in experience, people don't really care for the "but you can alway run away" option.

I'm not fully understanding where this extremism is coming from, his wording and blog sounded level headed. Its as if some people here think the dial can only go from easy, to hard, in two steps...skipping the fun option thats labeled right in the middle.

I always thought that betas where to tune the leveling curve.

What I don't get is other designers have already crafted a nice simple solution to this problem with the Rest XP mechanic.  There is no reason grind up your casual game to appease the extreme levelers.

They don't have rest XP?

Replying to Falconeer and Slayerik, I find strange what you guys are saying, because I find POTBS ship combat a big improvement over PIRATES!

It's been a long time since I played Dark Age, but my strongest memory of PvP in that game was finding a level 50 player AFK in the frontier and beating on him for 5 minutes without being able to kill him, because his health regenerated faster than I could deal damage.

He then came back to the keyboard and two shot me.

That will not happen in PotBS.

It's been a long time since I played Dark Age, but my strongest memory of PvP in that game was finding a level 50 player AFK in the frontier and beating on him for 5 minutes without being able to kill him, because his health regenerated faster than I could deal damage.

He then came back to the keyboard and two shot me.

That will not happen in PotBS.

Isn't beta caped at level 20?  :ye_gods:

Do you also remember what a boring grindfest DAoC turned into when at the end of beta they felt "progression is currently way too fast" and ramped down leveling to a crawl?  I sure do.  Can anyone name one game that was improved by slowing down advancement?

Do you also remember what a boring grindfest DAoC turned into when at the end of beta they felt "progression is currently way too fast" and ramped down leveling to a crawl?  I sure do.  Can anyone name one game that was improved by slowing down advancement?

And finally there's the speed of progression through the game and the end-game itself.

Once you get to 50, it’s another matter. As has been noted, we currently have a limited number of things for maxed out players to do, namely the economic game and port conquest.

Isn't beta caped at level 20?  :ye_gods:

You've distinguished between the "game" and the "end-game". Gamers have discovered that if there is an "end-game" then your "game" will just be a giant cockblock to keep people subbed before reaching the "end-game"

Once you get to 50, it’s another matter. As has been noted, we currently have a limited number of things for maxed out players to do, namely the economic game and port conquest. While port conquest can be a ton of fun, we do need more and are already planning it. We’ve got plans for more raid style content, difficult repeatable mission aimed at experienced groups that can work together. We recently redid one of our early missions (Red Tide, which you can get at level 6-8) as an example of this, and it rocks. We plans to do many more of these, dispersed throughout the level range, with a large chunk of them at 50. Similar to the Task Forces that CoH uses.

Several things that are under consideration include player port governance, society vs society grudge match battles, and of course the ever popular player owned socialization spaces (such as a customizable captain’s cabin you can invite friends to).

Just as many people are going to complain that leveling is too fast, as are going to claim it's too slow or not casual friendly,

First, and foremost, the issue about the grinding to level 50, and them attempting to balance it slightly is not something that should be a concern. Just as many people are going to complain that leveling is too fast, as are going to claim it's too slow or not casual friendly, so I totally believe that the leveling curve will be done with both sets of people in mind. With the way that FLS has been responding to the players, I'm even more sure that this will be the case.

WTF is wrong with you? CONTEXT... Quote and respond to the whole sentence for chrissakes.. And maybe read the paragraph it's part of and the sentence after that?

As a casual player getting to max level/end game is NOT why I play these games, and people who are only in these games to max/end game seriously need more cockblocks IMO. If casual gamers suffer a little, to grief the people who are in it only to be uber faster than everyone, then I am totally alright with that.

Guys, you really don't need to worry about this.

The leveling rate we have now is what we intend for launch.

Any changes we make will be to address specific situations like a mission that is way too farmable, or a region in the curve that needs adjustment.

There is NO GLOBAL XP NERF planned. What you're playing is fundamentally what we're launching. Don't worry.
__________________
John Scott Tynes
Producer
Flying Lab Software

Even if there are people who are powergaming to level 50, one of the requirements of the high level game is getting better ships. With player built ships being the best ones in the game, and because they require significant resources and time to create on their own, even someone who powergames to 50 still might not be all that much more powerful than 2 level 25s who do have better "equipment" (let alone skill and tactics).

Where the casual gamer is concerned, and worried that leveling will become too slow, I totally don't see this being an issue, because they still can compete even without the level grind because of equipment + skill.

The difference I see is between "new" player and "experienced" player. To the former, level 1 is fun, by its nature of being a brand new experience to learn. Once you hit the cap though, hitting it again does not include loving level 1. This is because if you're motivated to roll an alt and bring that to the cap, it's almost solely because you want to experience that endgame from a new perspective, and not because you want to relive all of the intervening levels again.

The reason some people continue to grind straight up to the cap even in new games is, in my opinion, largely due to the similarity of the game and therefore the expectation for the endgame. Some didn't find the level 1-60 experience in WoW much fun because they already played that experience in EQ1, DAoC, CoH, and so on. This is all because it's cut from the same mold. DIKU with unlocking new abilities for a class that is pretty similar to what you played before except with some tweaks. There's only so many times you can approach each new iteration of the same concept with the bright-eyed love of a newb.

For another, while you might think PotBS is ye olde standard DIKU, it isn't. So you have a good chance of missing the nuances that set you up for success later in the game.

In order to contest ports, and turn them into PvP zones, players need to kill NPC ships around ports, which you don't have to be uber level 50s to do. Players can enable their PvP flag, or leave it off, and are only subject to PvP if they enter into the contention area (red circle-BTW there's no crying in the red circle-) or are PvP enabled. This means players have to be willing to be open to attack, and the PvP aspect can be avoided for anyone who is just seeking to level . While I do see the port contention part being the ultimate goal for high levels until there is other "high end content", and do think many players will be racing to get there, I also don't feel that any of the rest of the game will become grindy because the PvP contention will keep the high levels occupied while casual gamers can sail around the big red PvP areas, and just have fun while achieving levels however they want.

I'm starting to feel like I just don't understand this game and I can't be bothered to care.  Ship upgrade, spiffy!  Ohh, that green quest (yes, despite the below, I'm sure) is kicking my ass still.  Am I not turning in circles enough?  What am I not getting?  Why are 3 ships kicking my ass when I used to be able to take this sort of odds before?  Why do I feel like I'm getting less powerful as I level as opposed to more?

I'm starting to feel like I just don't understand this game and I can't be bothered to care.  Ship upgrade, spiffy!  Ohh, that green quest (yes, despite the below, I'm sure) is kicking my ass still.  Am I not turning in circles enough?  What am I not getting?  Why are 3 ships kicking my ass when I used to be able to take this sort of odds before?  Why do I feel like I'm getting less powerful as I level as opposed to more?  Why does absolutely no one talk in this game outside of nation chat, which I promptly had to turn off due to rampant idiocy?

How much value is there in controlling ports or territory?

Are there unique elements to certain ports? I read about (though I haven't seen in-game yet in my limited played) mention of resource 'generators'... Mills, farms, etc. I saw that each port had a list of types of resource camps it has. Is that a big part of the value? Certain ports are very valuable to the economy? Is there any sort of network worth... like a chain of 3 ports with NPC (or PC) supply chains between them? I'm basically just looking for details on what purpose port ownership has over just for the sake of saying X owns Y. I've played EVE if making any comparisons or contrasts would help explain.

Why are 3 ships kicking my ass when I used to be able to take this sort of odds before?  Why do I feel like I'm getting less powerful as I level as opposed to more?

It's not very complicated. 3 ships get (combined) effectively 3x the firepower and survability bonus as they gain a level, while you get single upgrade to both. In order to maintain ability to kill 3 of them at the same level, your single upgrade would have to be 3x bigger than upgrade any single of them gets... and that in turn would make fights vs 1-2 opponents quickly turn completely trivial, while players would still bitch that groups of 4+ ships still grow harder to defeat at times goes.

That's the way I had been doing it. Boarding is just quicker. Sea battles were fun for the first few weeks, but eventually they just got in the way.

PvP is different of course.

I like to board because it saves me money. Cannon ammo and consumables cost money. Armor/structure and crew all regen for free.  :oh_i_see:

I think a mix is called for; if you try to board in the larger engagements where you have allies and somesuch you're gonna get absolutely shredded while you're conducting the boarding action. In any instancer where I have more than 1 ally I go for sending 'em to the sea.

I've found that 3 ships is really my limit; it's pretty dang hard to do more than three at a time somewhat regardless of the ship choices just because PotBS is very much bout economy of numbers, whether that be in boarding or in sea combat. Missions where I have to kill more than three ships I usually either cancel or abort them.

I was bored with the ease of play until I found the 'Ship Captain' who lets you increase the difficulty but I don't know if your rewards are boosted as well yet.

3.) Grinding... gets horrible.

Sorry Drew. There's no other way to put it. The grind past 20 becomes almost intolerable. By this point you've seen all of the instances avatar combat (avcom) uses, and the jungle and beach ones are GODAWFUL overused. The NPCs are in static spawnpoints and will be in the same spawn patterns. With only a very few exceptions (and refreshing they are,) they will be in the same positions and your goal will be to look for a foozle that spawns in one of about three or four places. You will find yourself sending silent prayers that the foozle is in one of the close-by ones. Overall, the avcom missions feel like the proof-of-concept for CoH's instancing system.

Ship combat missions come in about five varieties, and you will become absolutely sick of every one of them in pretty short order.

In the end, since I'm interested in PvP, I spend a lot of time "preparing to play." I spend a majority of my time in-game doing things I don't like doing for the few times I can do what I like to do. Want to be the lone pirate of the seas? Forget about it. If you're not running in a pack of 4-6, you're just an easy kill for someone who's in one that has an even half-decent tackle ship. Spawn points in PvP are ad hoc, so you can dodge bullets sometimes... and sometimes have no chance when you spawn 100y off of a fourth rate.

My interest just went from medium-rising after talking to a friend I let use my FP account who was telling me how cool ship combat was to not interested at all in the time it took to read this:


I was sort of hoping for a play to crush, winners gain $$$ in pvp for winning and losers have to go grind for 6 hours and eventually quit because they are bitches system.  No, that should not have been in green.

let's get all the Spanish-leaning folks on the same server if possible.

I found the trading quests.  I don't know if I can level solely off of them or not.

I was sort of hoping for a play to crush, winners gain $$$ in pvp for winning and losers have to go grind for 6 hours and eventually quit because they are bitches system.  No, that should not have been in green.

It's a bitch tactic, but I fully own up to destroying a 20K agamemnon deed when I started memory leaking out in a PvP area in open sea, froze up and got jumped by a pack of 4; I didn't load in before I was already getting pounded and sails to 60 percent. Damned if I'm going to reward a bunch of fuckers for jumping 4-1 someone who's obviously lagging/leaked out.

3.) Grinding... gets horrible.

Sorry Drew. There's no other way to put it. The grind past 20 becomes almost intolerable. By this point you've seen all of the instances avatar combat (avcom) uses, and the jungle and beach ones are GODAWFUL overused. The NPCs are in static spawnpoints and will be in the same spawn patterns. With only a very few exceptions (and refreshing they are,) they will be in the same positions and your goal will be to look for a foozle that spawns in one of about three or four places. You will find yourself sending silent prayers that the foozle is in one of the close-by ones. Overall, the avcom missions feel like the proof-of-concept for CoH's instancing system.

So I've been attempting to play and have a question.  Both last night and this morning at 8am EST, i'm attempting a tutorial mission and and lagging and rubberbanding like mad.  I couldn't even complete the intro mission first time, and the boarding/grapping mission  b/c my ship wouldn't move  (sails go up, starts to turn, hop back to umoving and sails down; repeat for 10 minutes).

Now I could maybe understand that at 10pm on a heavy load server, but at 8am with a light load I was seeing the same thing.  Is this typical performance for this game or is them some known issue with the tutorials?

rubberbanding like mad.

There is definitely still some improvements to be made in killing the latency beast. If you haven't already, try dialing down the viewable avatars to 20. I seem to recall the tutorials being a bit laggier than the rest of the game, and the n00b towns are absolutely the worst for lag.

This being an MMORPG, I was expecting a grind, something exactly like this.  However, just because I was expecting it doesn't mean I want it.  Tis' a better world where the developers simply stop making you gain levels at the point where they run out of content.

I haven't yet preordered - played the game and became more confused!

I made a Freetrader, thinking I can level by outrunning pirates and doing Fed Ex missions.  I can't.  I have to do combat missions, despite the fact that I don't really want to combat, I want to trade and craft. 

So what exactly can I do that a privateer can't?  I can see all of the auction house listings.  I have fewer fighting skills.  I can level faster, it seems, by getting pennants or something I'm still kind of confused about.

Actually we're extending open beta until the 1st:

http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10512

They seem extremely BS-free.  I really liked how one of the patch notes during that last stress test thing was like, "Avatar combat sort of sucks right now."  That's awesome.

Actually we're extending open beta until the 1st:

http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10512

It's not. They *know* the mechanics suck, but still put it in rather than prototype something that's actually fun in-house before developing it further. If they were misguided and honestly believed it's good enough to be part of the game perhaps it'd be better, different strokes and all that. Putting bullshit in your game when you're perfectly aware it's bullshit? There's nothing awesome about it.

I don't think they were like, "I know, let's make this boring mechanic."  More likely they thought it would be cool, and ended up realizing it wasn't all that cool yet and needed some work.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

I just figured out that I can get things called "pennants" off of ships that are "derelicts" - ships that I've either destroyed or boarded/killed the captain.  I also get dubloons and experience when I "capture" a ship in this fashion.  I just learned this at level 14.  Somehow I managed to miss learning it as soon as I could do it (level 5 or 10?).

I can turn in these pennants, 10 at a time, for experience or other rewards.  I think that Privateers can turn them in 5 at a time for the same stuff but I might not understand this correctly.  If I do, then wtf?  Why make it so much easier to level as a privateer?  Makes no sense to me.

I was just levelling via quests, many of which had stories to read and so on, but the experience just seemed so low.  I guess it wouldn't have been had I been correctly capturing ships and getting pennants.

I just hit level 16 on my freetrader and the quests went from me breezing through to very difficult, all of a sudden.  Too many ships, not enough allies, can't seem to board quick enough, can't seem to take out them ships quick enough, can't seem to escape from the mission without my ship sinking.  I don't know if I've just hit a string of bad quests or if my character is completely gimped, but 3 missions in a row, the lowest level ones I have, are just kicking my ass.  Maybe I've got 3 really really hard quests or maybe I really really suck.  There's no difficulty curve, it's a difficult cliff.

Yah, it is 17 for the Lexington, but that's definitely one you should be looking into. I also forgot all about the Van Hoorn Snow, which is a 12 ship (with fore and aft cannons), which probably would've been one to use in that mid space (and I should remember that since I've sold those almost as fast as the Mediator Cutters when I made them). A large shipping vessel to look into is a Flute (I checked and they're 14).

Someone want to scorecard PotBS?

1. Stability -- does it work?  really?
  I haven't had any issues, rock solid.

2. Design -- grindathon or gankathon?  no, really.  Anything to really bring you back?
  I'm 16 and a bit of a grind is starting to settle in.  It does keep my playing though.

3. Look -- polished or still rogue pixels, rough edges?
  No comment, my comp runs it at lowest settings because it's old.

4. Community -- madness or just manic teenagers?  What's the temperature of the people?2
  On Rackham/French it's a very mature community; almost everyone has 'authentic' French names, but the population is low.
 
  It's free, why not give it a whirl?

Someone want to scorecard PotBS?

1. Stability -- does it work?  really?

2. Design -- grindathon or gankathon?  no, really.  Anything to really bring you back?

3. Look -- polished or still rogue pixels, rough edges?

4. Community -- madness or just manic teenagers?  What's the temperature of the people?2

Thank you and good night!

Server list (http://www.burningsea.com/page/news/article&article_id=10533)


Anyone playing at launch? Any preferences? I am thinking anything besides Blackbeard and Rackham should be ok.

There seemed like more than enough things to occupy players, especially in the economy, and I definitely don't think that you figured out all the recipes, resources or crafting options available, especially if you were growing cocoa (which is a commodity that is mostly usable for trade missions and not much else). I was making ships and ship upgrades (outfittings) and was not able to produce anywhere near enough of my own raw materials, and sold every single thing I put up for sale (within 24 hours). Before they started giving everyone a million doubloons, I was already on my way to having a half million without even trying.

Yes, there was a lot of stuff, but how useful was it?  Some was for trade missions like my cocoa example.  In theory I like limited production ability to encourage interaction, but how good an idea is it to swap out buildings versus making the same ten things?

Also, if you made half a million doubloons, in beta, I would argue the economy is going to melt down fast.  I don't see how that provides a sandbox experience, either.  It just means you're flithy rich.

@Tao: The game is not like SWG. But it shares the same self-directed "endgame" that other virtual worldy like games do, in that it's not about the directed-content raids or contrived gladiatorial arenas. I reference SWG in particular here because at that launch people DID tey to play it as a straight EQ-with-Wookiees and were roundly disappointed by the many ways it was not. PotBS CAN be played as EQ-with-Peglegs, but I feel the results for players who tried that would be about the same. This is not a fantastic adventure PvE game imho.

I reference SWG in particular here because at that launch people DID tey to play it as a straight EQ-with-Wookiees and were roundly disappointed by the many ways it was not. PotBS CAN be played as EQ-with-Peglegs, but I feel the results for players who tried that would be about the same

Also, if you made half a million doubloons, in beta, I would argue the economy is going to melt down fast.  I don't see how that provides a sandbox experience, either.  It just means you're flithy rich.

Open beta is over, now it's playable for pre-orders.

Who is playing what, on which server?

I'm Spanish Free Trader Dirty Merri on Rackham.

I won't be playing until later tonight, but I will play Spanish as well, so I might as well jump on Rackham with you. Have a couple of RL buddies that are going to play as well.

If you are a FT you won't be sinking anyone  :ye_gods:

I can't get confirmation on whether my preorder went through or not. My subscription says "Active" on Station, but still says "Exempt" for payment, which is what it said for beta. Anyone else do a digital preorder? Did you ever get a mail from SOE/FLS? I won't know if it is working until I get home.

I won't be playing until later tonight, but I will play Spanish as well, so I might as well jump on Rackham with you. Have a couple of RL buddies that are going to play as well.

I started a Spanish freetrader on Rackham named Erik Christensen..

FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK TO THE FUCK FUCK FUCK

Fuck people in their tiny little earholes. So a player got to max level in 11 days. SO FUCKING WHAT? FUCK HIM IN HIS EARHOLE. How many hours did he play and how many hours did he play consecutively for much of that? When will dev teams learn?

FUCK WHAT THOSE ASSHOLES DO. If they get to max level, let them quit, because otherwise if you keep trying to cater to them, you will only alienate the non-OCD audience. You want the non-OCD audience more than you want the catass hardcore. If you tune your levelling curve to what the quickest levellers do, YOU WILL CREATE A FUCKTASTIC GRIND, AND THE ONLY PEOPLE LEFT WILL BE WHINY ELITIST CATASS DOUCHES WHO YOU CAN NEVER SATISFY.

That 11 days already makes it twice the grind WoW is, where people easily make 60 with 5 days /played.

I did a preorder.  Just patch and run.

Picked up the pre-order from Direct 2 Drive last night pretty much site unseen except from the commentary from the good folks here.   

Will this be included in the Sony All Access Pass, as I still maintain a EQ II subscription?

Haven't had a chance to play yet because all I managed to do last night was download the game, but will likely choose Spansih or French (if I choose to be universaly loathed).  VAs Y.

Will this be included in the Sony All Access Pass, as I still maintain a EQ II subscription?

Will Pirates be on Station Access Pass?
Yes. For one price you can play EQ, EQ2, Pirates, and everything else SOE has to offer.

From POTBS website: (http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10349)

Retail Purchase/Digital Download of Pirates of the Burning Sea: $49.99
1 month subscription: $14.99
3 month subscription: $41.99
6 month subscription: $77.99
12 month subscription: $143

Why is that last one not lifetime?

Because it's SOE and not Turbine.

Because then they would have to give you a refund.  :awesome_for_real:

I may be slow, but I'd like to understand the game a bit better. Is this, despite the 18-century setting,comparable to EVE with a some vital differences? Maybe it's more a Earth and Beyond?

Because it's SOE and not Turbine.

In short, the game has been compared to EVE mostly because of the player driven economy system, and because when you get sink you loose something.
But the game is not hardcore as EVE is. It is much more casual player friendly, you don't need to screw your life to play it successfully and usually you don't really loose that much if you are sunk  :pedobear:

1) It is mostly voluntary PvP. You are never forced to enter the radius of a contended port. People usually take it easy and are relaxed. I think that because of game mechanics no one will ever care if devs all plays british or french or pirates
Basically, if you stay out of a port while it is contended, you cannot be engaged in PvP. The only possibility for involuntary PvP that I can see, is if you logout in a port, and when come back to the game that port is contended.

2) I would say that "the game starts at level 50". But leveling will not give you higher attributes or other huge advantages in PvP. The most important thing levels do is giving you access to heavier ships. Small ships can easily escape from heavier ones, so at level 20 you will not be ganked by 50s.

3) There is no exploring on lands, just instanced missions. Often different missions will share the same map

I am really enjoying the game. As I already said it shares some great features and ideas with EVE but without requiring the same commitment to do whatever you want.

Or Flagship