f13.net

Wwwwow. The iPhone is insanely slick, and the Apple TV is only 300 bucks.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/

That has pictures and a live feed as it continues.

iPhone = widescreen iPod, Phone, Web device

Full touch screen, multiple-finger recognition, auto-swap between regular and widescreen, full WiFi, headphone slot, etc.

Yep.

here's a pic of the itunes interface http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0179.jpg  (number goes to apple front desk, I already tried it)

close up pic of the iphone http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0182.jpg - you can see cingular will offer it.

Prices announed,  iphone is $499 for a 4gb, $599 for a 8gb

500 bucks for 4 gig model, 600 bucks for 8 gig model for the phone.

Hmm... Playstation 3 or iPhone?

Pricing is pretty steep, I guess it's the early adopter tax. I was predicting a widescreen, touch-interface ipod. This kinda suprised me.

If the pricing were lower and capacity larger, it'd be tempting. If they don't bump up capacity on the ipods, I'll be buying an 80 gigger this weekend...

How does the phone work, do you have to subscribe to a service from Apple or can you just move a GSM chip from your current phone into the iPhone?  If the latter I'm sure the mobile companies will be tripping over themselves to subsidize the price in return for a two or three year commitment.

One of the slides said $599 with 2 year contract, I don't really want to know what it would cost without the carrier subsidization.

80GB iPod? What the heck are you putting on there?

8, not 80.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

It has pretty flash videos, but I think it's getting hammered right now.

It has SIM card support.

80GB IPOD not iphone. The iphone looks awesome, though. Very tempting, but I'd really like more capacity.

As for why - I work with apples, so it'd be a nice storage device for work. I've got about half my music collection here at work and it's almost 30GB.

I'll need to find out more, but  on the surface neither product has me really interested. That surprises me. I expected to fall for Apple TV, but my first impression is meh.

There's no subscription from Apple. Cingular's handling the service. You'll be able to get the phones from Apple stores though.

Same. iPhone is slick but it can't do corporate email (i have both corporate and personal email on my Treo) and it's limited to Cingular at launch - ie. Canadians like me are likely unable to buy it until Q4/07 or Q1/08 anyway so...

Apple TV also not really what I'd hoped for. Doesn't appear to do anything my current Macbook Pro, 360, HTPC set up can't do. Pity, I love Apple products but they haven't really done much pertinent to me with these announcements. iPhone v2.0 probably be more inline with my needs.

Considering that Safari is a shit shit shitty shit browser and that price is fucking obscene, I hope this device fails. I'd like to stab the I-trend naming convention in the fucking face.

The best thing that can come out of this is iPhone knock offs.

Screw the phone, I hope they give me a wide, touchscreen 80gb iPod.

I'd rather see a 20 GB solid state nano.  HDD's are for chumps.

I dunno, that phone looks awfully sexy.

Well, until you think about how scratched up the screen will get.

Sup guys.

Everyone's done knocking the PS3 now. Anyone says a fucking word, I respond with the iPhone. Old Technology for New and Obscene Prices. Nice going Apple.

You are in the minority... ...Wall Street for one, has a different view (http://www.onelocalnews.com/akronfarmreport/ViewArticle.aspx?id=41190&source=2)


Though it's vaporware right now, unlike the PS3, it'll selll incredibly... ...though I think it's overpriced, I am more interested in Apple TV (http://apple.com/appletv), though there are much cheaper ways of accomplishing this now...


It gets used up quickly when you start loading your DVDs and other videosl on it. Using nifty tools like HandBrake (http://handbrake.m0k.org/) and iSquint (http://ihttp://www.isquint.org/) that easily enable on to put DVDs and internet video (Flash clips off the web, .avi/.wmv/etc...) onto your iPod...

Can't people already do everything the iphone can do with the free phone that they already have?

First the things a person could conceivably want a phone to do:

Make phone calls... check.
Send text messages and email... check
Use as alarm clock... check
Take bad photographs of drunk people... check
Listen to internal mp3 player/radio... check
Install GPS software (not provided)... check


And now onto the stupid applications, which yes, existing free phones can already do....

Watch videos on tiny screen... check
Play games... check
Send picture messages.... check
Surf the fricking web... check

$600 dollars and a two year contract? I know you crazy colonials enjoy paying over the odds for mobile phones but this is silly.


If the improved touch screen really is as good as he says that mean something I guess - we'll see.

Oh, and the apple TV thing appears to be TV tuner for a PC. Seriously, what?

Maybe they incorporate the technology into the next iPod generation. Even if I wanted to spend that much money for a phone, I don't think it will come here too soon.

I have no problem filling my 80gig Ipod as well, btw. Isquint is a godsend in that regard. Thanks for the Handbrake link naum, guess now I need a 120gig iPod.

The Apple TV would tempt me if my Mac Mini wouldn't do the same thing on my TV already, plus being my bittorrent bitch and eyetv digital recorder.

No, it's a device to beam your iTunes library onto your television (or big screen monitor) that sits in another room..

I'll keep right on knocking the PS3 along with this fucking thing.  Just wait for the MacWorld hype to die down and we'll all discover that this thing is the second coming of the Newton.

As for Apple TV?  I already have that in the form of an XBox 360 for the same price, and it has the added benefit of playing games and DVD's.  Apple fanatics like to spend money on overpriced shit, I guess.

I think your next blog post should be everything you want to stab in the face. I will look for the complete list sometime in 2016  :-D

Can XBOX 360 stream music off of computer in next room? Can it sync with the video and audio content on a computer in another room?

Can we all just say, "Fuck Apple" finally? The iPods are overpriced and overrated, Apple computers still hold that commanding single-digit market share, and Steve Jobs is a bigger tool than Gates could ever hope to be. Stop buying their shit people. Just stop it.

Oh, lucky it costs $300 then.

Can't iPod users just plug their ipod directly into their amplifier?

Wait wait. It's a tuner for the ipod library?

LOLOL.

Comeon. Buy a fucking $70 used Xbox, put Xbox Media Center on it, and go to town. Man, fuck, you know the worst part. Geeks are the ones who REALLY fawn over this shit on the internet. And geeks are also the ones who would gut an Xbox to put it in a snazzy case because XBMC is so awesome. This blind faith in Apple is making me want to throw up on a newborn.

That's the kind of useless shit I expect Apple to try to sell me two years too late. I seriously want to stab iTunes until it is dead dead dead.

Actually, it'll happily stream audio and video off a WinXP box.

True enough.  The turtleneck alone is a true sign of douchebagdom.  Why everyone sings his praises to high heaven is beyond me.  People knock Gates as the monopolistic scumbag while he's vaccinating African kids and trying to eliminate malaria.  What's Jobs doing?  Becoming shadow-emperor of Disney.

Why yes, yes it can:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/devices/wmconnect/

My only comment is 720p? WTF? where's my 1080?

(http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/a/aapl)

And poisoning them (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gatesx07jan07,0,6827615.story?coll=la-home-headlines) at the same time.

That's true.

I don't own a WinXP box...

You guys crack me up.  :-D

That phone looks fricking awesome.

I'm bummed, however, about the name change :heartbreak: My first computer was an Apple ][+ and they will always be Apple Computer, Inc. to me.

Taking a company from near bankruptcy to profitability is a feat, yes.  It's on the same order of magnitude as what Lee Iacocca did with Chrysler.

Taking a company from a garage software developer to an all encompassing juggernaut that controls every aspect of modern computing is a little bit more impressive.  Giving away billions to fight basic diseases in the third world (and outclassing the UN at the effort, to boot) is pure gravy.  What's Jobs done with his billions?  Apparently he's defrauded shareholders and enriched himself greatly through Disney.  But he's the "noble" guy.  My ass.

Who said he's the noble guy?

Not you, just paraphrasing the usual hosannas that are sung to Jobs while people talk about Gates like he's the scum on a peep show floor.

Look, I like the iPod and I like OSX.  I do not like Apple, and I do not like their business practices which I consider to be even worse than Mircrosoft's.  Their one saving grace is that they are not the ubiquitous computer company.

Not to take anything away from Gates (because I do admire him), but just because you don't hear any press releases about Jobs' philanthropy doesn't mean he isn't charitable.

You guys do realize that the Gates Foundation is a colossal tax dodge that gives away only 5% while funneling money into oppressing the very people it claims to help (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gatesx07jan07,0,6827615.story?page=1)...

The LA Times???  Why not just quote Pravda?

I grew up in the Valley so the stories about Steve Jobs throwing tantrums and ripping into people and generally just being an unstable meglomanical control freak are part of the lore here. There are also stories about how like when he acquired Pixar he basically screwed over almost everybody in terms of their previous share ownership except for some key people. Of course if he hadn't bought them out they wouldn't be here today so there's something to be said for that. On the other hand his famed "reality distortion field" doesn't seem to be diminishing even though he's mellowing a bit with age (and having a bout with cancer) so people tend to buy into whatever it is that's he's trying to sell at the moment.

Steve Jobs is an A-hole. No argument there... ...and I admit he makes Gates look like a choir boy...

Just challenging the foolish notion that Bill Gates is deserving of sainthood...

I like guys like Jobs and James Cameron, maybe because I can identify with them. Crazy, angry, competent perfectionists.

Favorite Jobs story was when a journo asked him, a while back during his first run at Apple Computer, about the networking capabilities in the new Apple machine rolling out. To which he responded by throwing a floppy disk and hitting the questioner smack in the face and then responded "Here's your goddamned network"...

Will the iPhone backdate my apple stock?

Oh the woes of humanity.

Naum, I take it you only run Macs? Or do you have a Linux desktop you want to stream audio/video from?

I have 55gb of music on my non-video iPod. If you have been in college in the last 2 years and been able to take advantage of shared iTunes networks you'd know how easy it is to get 10gb of music in a day. As soon as I can put videos on there that shit will at least need to double so I'll probably need a 120gb. Although I don't need to have all my videos on my iPod all the time whereas I'd like to have all my music on there so 80 might suffice as long as I don't expand my music collection.

Yeah, easy to get if you steal it. And I was in college, and graduated, within the last 2 years Thankyouverymuch.

I don't steal music. Period. I support the artists I really like. Because of that, my collection of ripped music amounts to under 3GB. Which matters not a wit to me, as I don't listen to those songs much when I'm not in the car. And half the time, when I'm listening while at the PC, it's internet radio stuff.

/tangent_off

I've been buying albums since I was 8 or 9 (Licensed to Ill being the first heh). And CD's for longer than 10 years. Even counting the crap I discarded or lost, sold or gave away, that would still be over a thousand albums of music and audio. This goes without mentioning going absolutely crazy when eMusic first came out (they used to have a flat fee). I've filled up smaller iPods, and still have almost 2 CD's spindles' worth of ripped audio laying around besides that. I don't even keep everything on my hard drive.

Macs only, though I have one Linux box.

I already stream music via AirTunes/AirportExpress (and all my Macs can talk to eachother and share back and forth even without the Airport unit)… …can also plug in my iPod to TV easily, but the encoded video way too compressed for showing on 56" screen… …the Apple TV is of interest because it will let me stream HD and higher res video along with any other ripped video/audio (I  am dumping satellite and going to go with just budgeting money to buy shows online or get 'em from the library or discount bins…)… …I didn't realize XBOX 360 was capable of streaming HD video from my computer, or even that it was capable of streaming wireless audio… …of course, that seems an excessive price for a device to just do that as I haven't seen much in gaming offerings to sway me to buy one… (thought about it but then discovered Madden and FIFA games had less teams on XBOX 360 version and to me, it's all about the gameplay, not the graphics…).

Can XBOX 360 do 802.11n?

Yeah, through an add on card.

Probably need to splurge on remote control unit too - I don't see it listed as coming in the box (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/compare101.htm)…

Yeah, it doesn't come with any of the systems.

It's this little adaptor thing (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360wirelessnetadapter/default.htm) here (it's USB based, not a card actually).

One thing interesting here is how MS has been trying for a decade to get an all-in-one media-center thing going, and Apple comes in and pulls out the rug from under them in their first attempt. MS has tried XBox, WebTV, MS Media Center crap, etc...none of it has stuck though.

Sony is trying to get in on the same game too. With the PS3, and they're also adding in a module that attaches to their Bravia TV's.

With all of Apple's ties to content providers though (at least so far with music), they might have the best chance at winning.

Apple has ties to content providers, good software and good hardware. They make stuff you want to use, whereas MS makes stuff you can tolerate using.

"Cingular has a multi year exclusive contract with Apple Inc." as has been stated on the Keynote by the Cingular CEO. iPhones will only be sold with Cingular Service through Apple Stores or Cingular Stores.

Everybody that rips on the iPhone should just watch the Keynote presentation.

Basically the iPhone, as far as usability and features is concerned wipes the floor with any Smartphone offering out there while being the same price as a treo or Windows Mobile 5 device.

You might not like Apple or its CEO but that thing seems to be really good, but the exclusivity deal with cingular sucks big.

And keep the Gates/Jobs is God/devils' incarnate out of this thread, that's what politics is for.

But that restriction is only true for the US market. Lets see how things will unfold in Europe.

Wanna know where they got it wrong?


Worthless phone. Sorry. With exclusivity with Cingular, the only result of this would be I buy a blackberry or sidekick if I was going to switch carriers. People can yammer about this thing as much as they want about its beauty, its design, whatever. But this motherfucker is not utilitarian in the least bit.

2 years ago I'd be fighting myself big on the whole SMS thing. But it's damned amazing how much more useful that is than integrating a goddamn camera or video into a phone. Or even an MP3 player. How often can I sit around and shut off the world while listening to music anyway. As such, my next phone needs to have a full sized keyboard that slides out to the side, pops open like the sidekick, or replaces the standard keypad (yes, one of those small ones would work). T9Word sucks my balls. I'll take cramped space over that shit. On that note, Apple provides me with none of that. But it does provide me with a phone that would get scratched to all hell and guaranteed broken within a year. I'm careful with my phones as I am with most electronics. But it would be a damn lie to say that I've never dropped my phone while trying to put it back in my pocket or while taking it out to receive a call. I suppose Apple would be full of themselves enough to think everyone would get a bluetooth mic so they can be hip.

There are only two GSM carriers in the US -- Cingular (now AT&T) and T-Mobile and T-Mobile has a much smaller network (though they can share AT&Ts with no roaming charges) so really who else is Apple going to partner with?  This is meant to be an international phone* -- as in quad-band GSM -- so none of this (mostly) US-only CDMA crap (I say this as a person so likes being able to use my GSM phone in the US *and* other countries) so Verizon and Sprint need not apply.

*Edit: for those who haven't been following the details the plan is to release in Europe by the end of 2007 and in Asia sometime in 2008.

Yeah I just finished watching the keynote and I'll repeat what I said earlier: that thing is fricking awesome.

I don't even care about the phone features -- what I've been wanting since I first used the WAP browser on my old Sprint phone is a true pocket-sized Internet browsing device. Unfortunately it may be a whee bit early in terms of usability. EDGE isn't so hot and the 3G network is still being built out here in the US. If you have Wi-Fi access everything is great -- otherwise the user browsing experience probably isn't so hot. Maybe in another year when they introduce a 3G version of the iPhone and they build out the network some more things will be better at least around where I live.

Umm, it's the same price as Apple TV, does everything the Apple TV does, but with a DVD drive and it plays games...  What exactly is overpriced again?

The Microsoft product is $299 and YOUR SOUL.  :-D

As others have saying the Xbox 360 + Media Connect can do similar things as the Apple TV except that Media Connect from what I understand only streams, you can't store/sync content through Media Connect onto the Xbox 360 (you can presumably manually copy some of that stuff over) while the Apple TV has a built-in hard drive (which the Core doesn't have) so it's "self-contained" once you load it up with suff -- i.e. you don't need to have your PC running at the same time if the Apple TV hard drive has the content.

However I don't get the impression that Microsoft has been promoting Media Connect much for some reason, though that will presumably change now with Apple's announcement.

No it's not.

Extra money for 802.11n. ($99)

Extra money for remote control.

Extra money for HD (and HD 2x smaller). ($99)

Add those "extras" up that come with Apple TV, and that's almost double the price...

You don't need the remote with the XBox's Media Center, the controller works just fine with it.

Add a DVD drive to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Add gaming to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Add the free On Demand set up they'll be rolling out shortly in conjunction with cable companies...  Oh wait, you can't.

Christ, I hate Appletards.

The thing is, they're trying to rid of the need for disc media. That's why no DVD drive.

Personally, I don't disagree with you (more options are great), but it's an intentional strategy of IPTV.

Hell, even Microsoft is trying to downplay Hi Def movie discs now at the CES show when asked about the Blu-Ray battle, acting indifferent to it, and jumping in on the IPTV game themselves. As if that was their big plan all along.

Some folks were bashing the phone because it isn't a flip phone, and the business about unintended dialing from your pocket (which happens with my Nokia quite a bit…) but they didn't read through the product details -- iPhone has a number of detectors to figure out its context. It has a light sensor which would help it figure out whether it’s in your pocket or not. It also has a proximity detector. And it has an accelerometer. Wouldn’t the simpler, better user interface be for it to sense when it’s next to your ear in the right orientation, and then it just answers the phone?

Truly, it is sad that we live in a world where a toilet knows whether or not you’re standing in front of it, but a computer does not.

From my perspective, the big questions for me is what exactly does it mean that the phone is OS X and is the platform open?

Use a game controller for what all I need is a menu interface into iTunes library?  No thank, and it shows how many just don't get it.


Why do I need this when I am streaming everything from computer in next room and/or device has HD?


Don't care, and the XBOX 360 game offerings look pretty lame to me, at least for now, and in some ways looks like a step down from regular XBOX which I wasn't all too enthralled with either. Graphics not everything… …note the success of the Wii…


Actually, it's predicted that there will be a auto Netflix deal soon…

You know not what you speak of… …may not be your cup of tea but that doesn't make it stupid…

The phone gets "locked" when it's not in use and you have to have make a horizontal swipe with your finger across the screen (oriented vertically so it's the shorter distance) to unlock it. That's how they handle the unintended dialing in the pocket problem.

You know, I was going to post something meaningful here until I got through page 2. What the fuck is wrong with you pigfuckers?

Teh haet is strong with them Sky.

And no, it's not my job to boost the company. There are better qualified people to do that than me, but jeez, "Appletards?"

Video of the iPhone in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhD9mI8j8U

After further review, I've decided the iTV is going to suck. It'll only play in two formats, no divx viewing for you. Basically if it's not quicktime, it won't play. Think what the 360 is doing.

I should add, that while none of these products impress me, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't sell.

Apple are geniuses at selling to the 'People who will buy any damn thing' demographic. And good luck to them.

First off I wouldn't pay $500 for it. I might pay $100 for it if Amazon had a $400 rebate.

The only thing I care about on it is the web browser and being able to run my own applications. It's hard to tell how usable the browser they are showing with it is. I care about the content of the site not what it looks like when I'm browsing on my Sidekick2. The iPhone browser seems to be showing the whole page and then allowing you to zoom in which looks nice but seems like a waste of time. Seems like a better method than mobile IE on the MDA but I can't tell if it's better than the Sidekick2 reformating to screensize. It would be pretty awesome if it supported normal Flash and not just Flash lite. That would give you all the web games on your phone for free plus flash video.

I don't see anything listed on what processor it's using. Will it be able to run REALbasic applications? That might be nice if it did. 320x240 @ 160dpi is pretty nice. Better than the Sidekick2. About the same as the MDA.

The screen appears to have multiple touch so you can double thumb type on the screen keyboard. Those keys look pretty small though. Not as easy to use as a Sidekick or MDA keyboard I wouldn't think.

Bingo. I'm looking to replace my Treo 650. If the iPhone isn't wonky as hell it'll be at the top of my list of candidates.

Re the other iPhone: (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/10/technology/10apple.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1168405200&en=57dea2fcc0d93534&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin)

Cisco sued them today over it (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_hi_te/cisco_apple)

320 x 480 not 320 x 240.

Ahahahah, fucking good. Take that name away Cisco. Don't puss out for some stock offers or anything. Cisco is a way more important, relevant company than Apple, they don't need Apple's money or favors.

At least one random blogger (http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2007/01/10/the_five_bigges.html) is saying that it's a closed system but Steve Jobs made no mention of that one way or the other during the keynote so I don't know where he's getting that information from.

What's amusing is that I just got this Skype phone last week because I'm a cheap bastard and wanted a quasi landline in addition to my cell.  I didn't even realize it, but just 10 minutes ago I pulled off the "Charge batteries for 14 hours before using the phone for the first time" sticker and what do I see underneath?  An iPhone logo.   :-D

Ugh. Dyslexia for the win. That's worse than 720x480/640x480.

Yes, but it's (slightly) better than the PSP (480 x 272).

Huh?

/em shakes head in disbelief

Any company can make routers and overcharge for service…



Don't care, have utilities that convert to H264 or mp4 easily from DVD or other video format… …but yes, more formats is better…

Cisco market value = $174 billion.

Apple market value = $83 billion.

Furthermore, Cisco is integral to how the entire economy works considering that they're the largest provider of networking components in the world.  Apple makes good products, yes, but frankly they just aren't that important in the overall scheme of things.  Society doesn't grind to a halt if every Apple product in the world simultaneously goes kaput.  You can't say the same for Cisco.

Which totally ignores the truth that any company can make routers and sell overpriced service. Sorry, society wouldn't grind to a halt. Some other predator would assume their syndicate. Wal-Mart has much higher market value and if it went kaput, society would be just fine.

The world wouldn't fall apart if Apple disappeared also, but society would be denied the output of a whole lot of creative folks… …and for many, computing would become an ugly experience…

I was wondering why they didn't just go with applephone, like appletv. Use the little icon. The iCrap is tired. Though I do get a chuckle out of that book about Jobs: iCon.

Unfortunately, no company could instantly step in to fill Cisco's role.  They are integrated into everything and everyone.  People know their hardware, not Random Podunk Company's.

Yes, someone could step in to fill their shoes (likely lots of little companies, causing competing standards), but that does not change the fact that Cisco equipment runs everything now.  If they disappeared it would have a sizable effect as people try to position themselves in the hole.  If Apple went away, it would barely be a blip on the radar, and only the enthusiasts would care.

More than a blip, I assure you.

Way to not understand anything about the internet or the hardware/software it runs on.

Horse puckey.

Internet and computer networks existed long before Cisco rose to prominence.

Juniper, Netgear, and Foundry Networks could, can, and do eat cisco's marketshare in various places. There are others, I'm sure. All of those companies offer competing products, often for less than Cisco. Juniper of course scales up to where Cisco can't, and technically it's juniper that routes the internet, not Cisco. Cisco is more of a middle-man, easily replaced if need be. What do they have - CDP, ISL, and EIGRP. CDP is cool, I'll give you that. It's not irreplaceable. ISL has 802.1q which you should be using anyway, and EIGRP I can drop without looking back.

This isn't to say that a lengthy expensive lawsuit between apple and Cisco would bankrupt either of them. There will be a Multi-million dollar settlement from Apple to Cisco, and this issue will quietly disappear. Status Quo.

And computers existed before Apple. Apple hardware however, isn't used by every ISP on the planet. Cisco is.

It's wider than just ISPs. If you are a large corporation, you use Cisco gear for all the hard stuff.

Some local office might use someone else's kit for some local hub based shit, but the corporate stuff is Cisco just about everywhere.



The financial wake that Cisco would leave would be far greater than what Apple would generate. Far more people would be scratching heads and working out what the fuck to do. The effect on network people probably wouldn't be far off the effect of Y2K. Of course, society didn't grind to a halt then either.

Naturally the media would miss Apple a great deal more.

And Cisco don't generally manage to attract multipage threads on this forum. Not even when they announce a product that actually does something new.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/


(((Aw come on, WHO CAN'T LIKE A RUBBER WEB PAGE STRETCHING TECHNOLOGY!? You'd have to be clinically depressed not to like a rubber web page stretching technology.)))

The thing that stands out to me from that article, is that the things the author is impressed by are not things I would find remotely attractive.

It's thin - I think Motorola got as thin as anyone needs already - and every bog standard phone passed the threshold of 'thin enough' years ago.

Web browsing - seriously, who gives a shit? Web browsing on a phone? I'm really not interested even if it is rubberised web browsing.

Camera framing - I can already take pictures of drunk people, and I'm hardly planning to use a moblie phone for serious photography.


On the other hand, ability to use the keyboard quickly and efficiently to make calls and send sms/email (even with proper nouns) is *exactly* what I *do* care about.

And no third party apps. Go go closed vendor lock in. Lame.

Yes. I can kind of sort of understand them not wanting random people writing their own phone apps but no 3rd party Internet apps make me a :sad_panda:

Edit: okay so it's not quite a totally closed system:
but still...

It makes me a 'I won't buy your phone'.

I find it easier to just ignore Apple altogether. Even looking back to a time when I was a hardcore Mac user, it was just elitism. Apple has never done a goddamn thing for me that couldn't be done either more efficiently or cheaper somewhere else. They are a company that Creates Luxury. Nothing more. And not even luxury that I'd rather have over something else. Just luxury for morons. Actually, I take that back, I like their dock more than the Windows dock. So I installed the rklauncher or whatever it's called (bundled with the FlyaKite shell for Windows). And for the past N years, since the iMac, every product has been missing CORE functionality that I find fucking necessary. iMac? Couldn't expand shit. Though, I suppose that goes for all their computers, but specificallyt hat godforsaken half-egg iMac (and the Cube). iPod? Tons of shit comes to mind that I'd thought they'd get in by now. Like wireless transfer of music. There's a reason I replaced my 10GB 1st Gen iPod with a $19.99 Nexus25 from woot. iPhone? Keyboard. Closed OS. Tiny Hard Drive. Man, what a piece of shit.

This isn't to say Microsoft doesn't have it's faults. It's just that Apple's faults are so fucking glaring. They're so hung up on making things simple enough for Grandma that they forget shit that seems completely basic to me. Bleh.

Edit: Didn't mean to press submit the first time.

If the FreeNix world got off their asses and had a unified GUI, a single audio subsystem that isn't a complete embarassment, as well as the ability to just work out of the box and have good driver support, then I'd prefer that. But no, I've been dabbling with Linux since some of the earliest Slackware releases, and they've yet to deliver on ANY of those things in almost 15 years. Apple delivered a true user friendly, audio workstation class UNIX in five.

You might not care about those things, but if there was a checklist for every feature I'd want a platform to have, the Mac OS would meet all my requirements (and then some). It has nothing to do with elitism. If my requirements be a turnkey point of sale system, then I'd buy a cash register. That wouldn't be elitism either. Same goes with PC games and Windows (but that is soon a dying need for me...though that can be done on Macs too).

Correction.  That can be done on a Mac through Windows.

Umm...Yeah?

The post was about user friendly UNIX for audio work. The bit about games was a closing comment (done in JEST), not even worth quoting. Look for your Windows vs Mac war elsewhere.

Actually Steve Jobs, or more accurately Avie Tevanian and team did it twice. The first time at NeXT (with its dedicated DSP chip for audio processing) and the second time at Apple, though NeXT, with its Mach kernel, came before Linux by a number of years.

I know about Next (but for the sake of brevity, I excluded their history), but Core Audio is a different beast (by virtue of Apple's purchase of Logic). Besides that, OpenStep was not as user friendly as OS X (you could say that was just the passage of time between the two though). Other than OS X's first iteration (Rhapsody), old school Mac UI principles fleshed out the Next design.

It's Apple being Apple. The Sidekick has the same closed controlled system and suffice to say the app selection is crap. Windows Mobile has what appears to be an 'open' system and the cell phone networks aren't crashing.

Jakob Nielsen, useability guru, gives iPhone a thumbs up (http://www.useit.com/)


Personally, not for me. So sad that nearly 10 years after Palm PDA that I can't buy something Franklin Planner sized (5" by 8") that would act as (a) phone, (b) portable note pad, for taking notes and/or jotting down whatever fleeting thoughts come into my head, (c) knowledge base conduit via mobile/WIFI sync up with home/work machine, (d) terminal in a pinch, (e) email/web browser amd (f) music/video device with finally (g) open platform so anyone could write apps for it...

I would pay $500-600 for something like that without second thought...

Cisco lost rights to iPhone trademark last year, experts say (http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=236)

First you have to buy a $500-600 phone, then they want you to pay $60 a month at a minimum for service... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_hi_te/iphone_pricing)

I sincerely hope this is a huge flop.

 :nda:

I'll wait for the iPhone with the 60 or 80 gig HD.  If I'm going to have an all-in-one then I want it to really be an all-in-one and 8 gigs just wont cut it.

Yeah that's another thing, you just know they are already working on a version 2 that will be much better.  I was reading another article and it drew the parallel between "never buy the first new model year of a car" and "never buy first generation Apple hardware".

I also forgot to mention that the $60 plan isn't even the next gen fast G3 network, that's not available on any plan.  These phones are all on the old, slow network.

Isn't 60 bucks a month pretty much the bottom end of smartphone pricing from AT&T Cingular AT&T anyway?

Note the "unlimited data services". This is a very reasonable price.

Perhaps you aren't interested in a data plan? Then you need to rethink why you wanted an iPhone in the first place.

Ok, now, do a search on 3G network coverage in the US.

Go on, we can wait...

Um, what? It has some nice features and it looks nice all around. But, I never need to use the internet on my phone. I can either use my laptop or 1 text message later and I've found out the information I need to know. It just doesn't seem logical ESPECIALLY considering it's not on the 3G/EDGE network. Which I know isn't that big a deal, but it has a full on web browser. On a GSM network that's going to be a bitch to use.

If you have unlimited data why do you need 450 minutes of 'voice' (like there is actually a difference, puh-lease)?  With unlimited data why can't I just VoiP?

Would be cooler with GPS. Even so, most places we hike (Adirondack Park) would get no connection. Pile on the monthly fee and my interest just slunk out of the room.

These seem to be the standard plans from Cingular so I'm not sure why this news is traveling around like it's some kind of revelation.  The current plan for my Smartphone with them is $59.99 for 900 minutes + $19.99 for unlimited data and 200 text messages.

That data plan pricing applies whether you use Edge, 3G or whatever.

Why the hell do we let them get away with unlimited data but you have to pay extra for text and voice?  The cell phone is just packetizing everything anyway.  I can't see how a text message packet looks any different than a voice packet looks any different than a data packet.

Someone who knows more about cell phones feel free to chime in, is everything on different networks or something?  You have to have 100ms or so end to end latency for a good voice conversation, do voice packets get priority routed?  Why does text messaging cost anything at all?

$$$

They make mad money on people going over their text and voice limits.  MAD MONEY.

If you don't have a data plan, then all you have is an iPod and a cell phone that fit in the same box. And a rather heftily-sized box at that.

The data connection gives you music downloads, email and web without needing to lug your laptop around and look for a network to connect it to. Maybe you don't need or want that. If so, I argue you're better off with an iPod nano and whatever free phone your cell provider offers.

Because you can't install VoIP. The phone is only available from one service provider, and its feature locked. The iPhone may be of interest in two years time when other providers are offered it, and when there are better models with the features that are sorely missing from such an expensive handset. However, by that point the competition for sexy will have heated up and some of the other GSM phone manufacturers will have similar stuff. Its good that Apple have finally woken up the phone market (which has been stuck in a rut for a decade) but I don't think I want their phone. Please sell the software to Ericsson. :P

I thought there was an SDK or some shit where people could write programs for the iPhone.

Commercials make it look really sweet… …I don't have any use for it though, it's just an overpriced toy… …and the pricing plans are way too high (considering cost of phone added in)…  …perhaps if I had $600 I wanted to light on fire… …not having VOIP not as big a deal (well, if the price was set right), but things I don't see mentioned (they might be present?…)

* IM clients?
* Apple drew developer dissent at recent WWDC by sneakily advancing how web applications serve as "SDK"… …still, not a showstopper, but would like to function like PDA (take notes, then upload to Mac later…)…
* No GPS, come on, it's 2007, would really be worth it just to have dynamic maps + stuff in the phone…

People lining up to plunk down and purchase, but they lined up for the Newton too…

The Newton was great - it still is the best PDA out there.

I think the initial iPhone is targetted at a special type of consumer. One that wants to carry one device that works as their iPod and a phone to make/send calls and text messages plus has iTunes access from the phone.

There are a hundred differnt "niches" in the mobile device market some more lucrative than others. Thus why there are basic phones, ones with cameras, ones with video cameras, ones with mp3 players, treos and blackberrys, and ones that have everything ever invented since they started -preslicing bread. Personally, I have no use for an iPhone as I don't want anything but a functional rugged phone that stores all my numbers, makes/recieves calls and tells me the time.

The biggest problem with the people complaining about features (not necessarily here, but in the media) is that they really do not understand the psychology and history of Apple's product release schedule since Steve Jobs came back to run the place. The first generation is always geared towards the "early adopters" who have the income to drop on something new and underwhelming overall and will just replace it when a better model comes out. I know people who bought the original bondi blue iMac, the first of the graphite special edition iMacs, the first E.T. iMac, and probably one of the first flat profile iMacs. There really are not any other companies that have that kind of personality cultish loyalty by people with means these days. People are not buying these just as functional objects, they are buying them as a personal statement. Even I don't get it, and I have spent a lot of money on Apple machines over the years.


The Newton was hurt by the fact that it was waaaaaaay before it's time, and it came out during an era of horrible management at Apple.

One of the products my company sells is for Handhelds to synch with the online Realtor's database program we sell. It's crazy the number of Realtors that are phoning up and asking if it will work on the iPhone. My basic response is that I don't even have a clue as to what kind of OS the iPhone is going to use, so in short - no.

There are going to be a lot of anoyed realtors when they realize that the iPhone is not going to instantly replace the functionality of thier Treo or Blackberry.

I just want this thing to come out so I can stop hearing about it.

Steve Jobs could take a shit in an off-white case and retards would buy it and claim it the best thing ever and how it was going to revolutionize the world of shit in a box. Then Apple would release a version with less features for the same price and sell twice as many.

Lol. Realtors with an iPhone. I can't wait for them to start calling into GoDaddy. Seriously, realtors are some of the most gullible, innocent bunch of morons I've ever dealt with. They all want magic search engine optimization to just happen, they think a domain name is going to change their world, and they're always upset at renewal time when it didn't do shit. I don't know if I'll be able to talk to them about their goddamn overpriced MP3 phone without laughing at them. I already have enough trouble as it is "bestatlantahomesbythecoastwithmagicroofs.com." DIE.

You rally thing so?

yOv rfaily tninf sO?

Edit: actually that's not what the Newton did cause it used a dictionary to help it guess the words. Oh well I ruined my own joke.

Edit: better late than never

I want a pocketable Web browser badly. I can't even count the number of times I wished I had something I could use to look up stuff while unplugged from my computer. The 320 x 240ish Windows Mobile devices have too little screen real estate -- I need some at least around 640 x 480. $599 is a pretty reasonable price compared to trying to import an Asia mobile device with such a screen. The lack of 3G doesn't bother me since I'm already used to surfing on a crappy DSL line.

(http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2337/wpnan070621vn1.gif)

That picture is innacurate bhodi.

He is wearing a non-black, non-turtleneck top.   :-P

He doesn't wear turtlenecks -- they are "mock" turtlenecks.

Yea, we do Realtor Websites as well, so I feel your pain. Had one that wanted something along the lines of gr8realestatebysue.com, because the proper spelling had been taken. I could write a book on the stupidity of Realtors. And yes, they get mad at us for not getting them to the top of Google for our $35 a month subscription rates.

We actually direct most of our customers to GoDaddy for domains.

Back when I was writing web-sites I had a realtor customer that started off pretty simple but eventually he expected me to create all the functionality of realtor.com for about $3000, with multiple front ends so that people would have choices and variety.  That was a good web development story, he actually had some money and could pay.  Most people that wanted, say, e-bay but better, wanted me to do it out of the kindness of my heart and a cut of some unidentified amount of the profits 'some time in the future and at their discretion'.

Because, you know, they were idea men and I was too dumb to see how awesome this website was going to be.

As someone who's been in the housing market, looking to buy, for YEARS now...yes. They will buy into any trend and think the stupidest shit is a good house feature. I have yet to find one that can understand I want a pre-1960s house with solid foundation, good straight walls and roof, legal wiring and plumbing. That's it. Everything else is relatively easy, I just want a solid shell that I can spend the rest of my life updating. They keep thinking I mean a shitty 1970s ranch.

There's also the problem of me not buying into the whole scam game of 'my house is magically worth 50% over the assessed value!'. Everyone is in on that scam, and it fucks first-time buyers HARD. Then the banks not wanting to give what sellers will settle for...Oops I did my little real estate rant.

Anyway, back to the website stuff. Yeah. I'm professionally a jack-of-all-trades. If it involved a computer (or sometimes anything with a plug), they call me. I made the mistake of mentioning a website redesign and they want all this professional-quality shit like we have the fucking NYC library's resources or something. Shit, I don't even write straight html (though I can hand edit it), I use dreamweaver :P I used CSS for backgrounds and text and now my supervisor thinks I can crank out a full site that can change on a dime like that css zen garden site. And of course, get all my other work done, as well...

This doesn't sound all that common to me.  Shit happens to houses after 50 years, and wiring codes have not remained static.... heh, "static", I made a funny! er, ah, eheh.

I think Sky means circuit breakers vs fuses.  That would have required a rewire sometime in the house's history for the stuff he's looking at.

Solid foundation is usually the first killer.  I had one realtor actually show me a house whose foundation was failing to the point the joists at the second floor were poking into the stairwell.  He said he haddn't been in the house before, but I didn't believe the bastard.

You're usually better-off doing the research yourself, Sky.  Sign-up using a spammail on Realtor.com and go to town searching.  You're looking at the same shit as the realtors do, since it's all the MLS listings, you just get it delayed by a day or so. Bad in a seller's market but with sales taking an average of 120 days right now (locally at least), all you're going to miss are the "super buys" which you'd have to move on in a matter of hours anyway.

Always remember Realtors are out for themselves.  Their office only keeps them around so long as they're selling and bringing-in money.  Unless you know one as a personal friend, don't trust 'em.  They'll try and upsell you just to get that extra couple hundred (or thousand) dollars in commision and on their office tally.   They are the used car salesmen of the modern economy.

One of my favorite Realtor sites, have your speakers turned on: www.hollyporter.com (http://www.hollyporter.com)

Merusk is right, do as much of the research yourself that you can. You won't get all of the details from Realtor.com on a listing that the Realtor gets, but its a good start.

I can't remember what city you are in, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up anything interesting.

Testing out the iPhone (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118289311361649057.html?mod=blogs)

I extensively cross-reference MLS sites. You really need a few to get all the info you can. I've only spoken in passing to a couple realtors, they certainly are used car salesmen...but worse. I've actually considered getting licensed myself and pocketing the commission. If you don't list price, address and MLS I don't even bother thinking about your properties, it's a waste of my time.

It's also great talking to a realtor and telling them the comps in the area because I've been searching for SO DAMNED LONG. You want $208k? Really? The house next door went for $150k with a pool and better yard, newer kitchen and roof. Bitch. I really wanted that one, nice tudor style place, low bills.

I barely even use Zillow, which in my area isn't all that reliable anyway.

Zillow is pure horseshit.

Speaking of horseshit, I'll continue down my little derail path and say that I'm about to jump banks because I detest my bank's regional mortgage person. She's constantly pushing me away from the one product they offer that nobody else in the area does, toward stuff that's way more profitable for them and fiscally irresponsible for me (though not ARMs, at least). She also rejected one house out of hand because it was $50k over what she thought it was worth based on the vast information at her hands: the square footage and style. Then she backed up her opinion using Zillow "My favorite site!". I pointed out Zillow was usually (very) wrong, especially in our area.

Now, the house was overpriced, but only because it needs some interior finish work (in fact, she wouldn't give me a loan because the upstairs isn't finished). But it's also in the single best block in my entire city, and would be a steal if I could afford to buy it and then finish the renovations to the upstairs. Fucking moronic wench, I'll make sure to mention you when I make the funds transfer to my new bank. And how you're always fifteen minutes late to our half-hour meetings.

Nothing like real-estate to get me ranty these days. This 'industry' is obscene.

Walt Mossberg passing off an Apple puff piece as an actual review?  Say it isn't so!

Real estate has always been bad, but it's gotten worse over the last 6 years with the housing bubble.  I'm not completely happy with this slow deflation, as it puts my job at jeopardy working for a home builder, but it's needed to clean out some of  the stupid.

Your mortgage dealer sounds like a complete and clueless tool. Big surprise.  Register your complaint, but unless you're a 'big account' I don't think they'll care too much.  bankings been getting even more bloated, corrupt and bullshit-filled than real estate lately.

David Pogue at the New York Times Agrees with Mossberg!

The iPhone Matches Most of its Hype (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/technology/circuits/27pogue.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)


Though Pogue is probably planning to add iPhone: The Missing Manual to his book publishing empire.

Apple like the Big Boys, buying up the journalists, but it probably costs them a lot less than M$… …buying "journalists", that's how it's done, even startups I worked for recently all spent money on plucking writers to publish favorable reviews…

OK I get it Journalists are only objective when they critisize a new product, if there is one who actually enjoys what he reviews he must be an industry shill  :roll:

All of those people got units from Apple -- they didn't go out and buy them with their own money. Given what a control freak Steve Jobs is you can be assured that if they wrote a negative review they would be cut off forever from getting advanced previews, invites to special events, etc. from Apple.

So? 90% of all the reviews work that way, that doesn't mean that evreybody out there is just sucking industry cock...

I saw an interviews with the WSJ guy on CNBC yesterday about his review. He said in response to a question about the lack of a  keyboard that "after 2 days he wanted to throw it in the garbage, but by day 5 he was typing just as fast as he does on his blackberry or treo" he also was very forthcoming about how he tested it, how it's battery life was better than anything he had used before, and that he had to return it to Apple at the end of the week. And that he was going to buy one for personal use.

Sure, Apple wants good press, no one will deny that. So does everyone. But they did not need these reviews to sell the iPhone. The people who were going to buy one in the next few weeks were going to do so anyway. If this was as horrible a product as the "hate everything steve jobs touches" crowd want everyone to believe it is, then surely Apple would not have released any to pre-release testing.

Apple is a cult. Like the first shipment of any console, it will sell out. No question.

But it's a $600 phone.

My cap on phones is $300. And even then, it best give me a blowjob. I think the most I've ever spent on a phone is $200, for my current one. It was too expensive.

$600 for a phone bothers me less than $60 a month for two years -- that's $2040 including the phone, enough to buy a new MacBook Pro or something -- especially since I already have a discounted AT&T plan. If I wake up early enough I'm going to go down to my local AT&T store tomorrow and ask if there's a way to shoehorn iPhone service into my existing plan and what the cost would be.

I'm on Sprint's Employee Friends & Family plan. You couldn't pull me off this sucks by subsidizing a phone that can transport me out of the Matrix. It's cheap, it's sexy, and it has unlimited broadband and messaging. It's too bad every phone Sprint offers is dogshit.

I'm on AT&T because

1) It's the only provider that I can get a good signal from where I live
.
.
.
5) It's GSM so I can use the same phone when I travel to more civilized parts of the world

Waiting for the technical specs and the provider costs for the Euro version (meaning if it will have UMTS), but for the US version I have to agree. Way too expensive.

Yes, it costs what a computer costs, and it's missing tasks that a computer should be able to do. But then, it might be just limited to battery capabilities…

It's a disposable device, only so many charges, then it has to be upgraded (in lieu of sending back to Apple to perform "Genius Bar" battery replacement)…

It sounds like the simple act of making a phone call means more than a couple of finger clicks… …that isn't suitable for a mobile device IMV, even my phone, I have to hit a button before dialing and that can be a bit inconvenient at times…

Still, the price plans of various smart phone competitors (Crackberry, Treo) seem outrageous to me too, given the limited qualities of these so called "smart phones"… …tiny keyboards, lesser powered battery power And Treos hardware reliability factor is on par with the present presidential administrations penchant for truth telling.

V2.0/V3.0 might be different… …even as is, if it had GPS and IM and even selection of alternate service providers, it would have been enticing…

I'm amazed it has the sim card built in and un-removable.

The SIM card is not built-in and is removable.

Edit: you may have been confused cause the phone is locked. So no T-Mobile SIMs and no SIMs from other countries.

I currently have a Treo. Yes, they are expensive. No, they are not replacements for laptops. Their big win is that they fit in your pocket. I have my Treo with me literally everywhere I go. Even though I currently own three desktops (at different locations) and a laptop, there are many times I don't have a computer right with me. I can't imagine going back to not having a SmartPhone.

The big question is whether consumers will be willing to pay for this convenience. I just don't know. But my colleagues in Japan tell me that many people there do not have a fixed phone or a computer at home -- they do everything with their SmartPhone. If you add up the cost of PC+landline+DSL, the cost of a SmartPhone doesn't seem quite so crazy. It will be interesting to see whether that trend takes hold here.

(One caveat - dumb Apple isn't allowing direct connection to iTunes from the iPhone, so you do still need a computer. WTF?? That presumable will change - for this phone model to work, Apple really needs to provide a fast network and hosted storage for your music.)

Shame its OSX core didn't come with a terminal app and SSH. There's this "webshell" (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mressl/webshell/), but its something else to install on your servers. Putting the 80GB drive from the high end iPod in it or providing a media card slot would have significantly improved the iPhone's desirability. That said, if I didn't have a Blackberry paid for by work, I'd be mighty tempted to get one because of the software. As I suggested earlier, I think that the iPhone will result in a deluge of superior hardware from other manufacturers in the next few months. Its not unreasonable to expect smart phones that have laptop-capacity hard drives, removable media slots, removable batteries, WiFi, quad band GSM, decent megapixel camera, video clip recording, GPS, map software, browser, IM, terminal app and an open SDK. All the components are there in one device or another, its just takes some asshole to put it together and sell it to me. I'll pay a grand for it all provided its unlocked and I can use work's SIM card. Thanks.

Let's talk about Smartphones. I've wanted something with a proper keyboard (rather than T9 shit) with MSN/AIM capabilities so I could do Sneaky Sneaky F13 work from my day job. There really seems to be only 2 options for me though: The Moto Q and the new Treo 755p.

I don't know if the Moto Q can do AIM/MSN stuff. And I don't know if Treo's are dog shit. They sure are ugly though.

Windows Mobile has supported MSN Messenger for quite some time (since version 2002) though some phones might not have it as part of their installed software.

Here's a list of all the Windows Mobile phones with keyboards:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/smartphone/default.mspx?f_qwertyKb=QWERTY

Most of the guys I work with have Treo's but they seem to be migrating away from them as the Smartphones get more functionality.  WiFi is one nice thing that Treo has that most Smartphones do not.  Personally I think the Treo's are too expensive.

I had a non-QWERTY Smartphone and when it broke I paid the money for a BlackJack.  It has been worth every penny to have that keyboard and 3G.  Opera Mini has really changed web browsing for me on it as well.  I understand the Q is very similar.

V

Ahh - so someone just needs to figure out how to unlock it in 30 days so it works with T-mobile. :)

I've had an AIM client on my Palm Treo for years.  Compared to what Verizon charges for voice and unlimited data ($80+), the iPhone pricing plan is looking mighty good.  The only thing keeping me from taking the plunge is the fear of a first gen device, and to a lesser extent the slow network.  But I've been living with the slow network on the Treo and for email/IM it's fast enough I guess.

I still prefer the Sidekick. Has AIM and Yahoo. F13 works in the web browser. Supports Javascript. Web pages are reformatted so there is no left right scrolling required. I pay $30 a month for unlimited data and no minutes but they don't have that plan anymore.

Other than the web browser and AIM it's a worthless piece of proprietary shit though.

And the ridiculousness of charging premium for text messages that means IM and Skype (or insert $OtherIMClientOrProtocol)… …touting a device for its WiFi, then crippling it by shoehorning the principle benefit of such a device coupled with WiFi access… …may not seem so relevant today, but soon, everywhere you go will have WiFi (be it business, home, office), and you could carry on mobile net activity without lugging a laptop around… …I so want that with GPS and ability to stash notes, but why should I have to send email just to send text?

Jobs Pulls an Oprah — $12M in iPhones for all Apple employees (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/jobs-pulls-an-oprah-12m-in-iphones-for-all-apple-employees/)

(http://www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2007/06/stevejobs_moneybags.jpg)

Uhhhh, that's not an Oprah. That's providing employees with something they should probably know to spread the word of the cult.

An Oprah is giving a full fledged G5 to the entire audience of the MacWorld Keynote. I.E. Not people on your payroll. Or people that are indebted to you in any way.

I thought that this was amusing: proof that the iPhone will support Flash. (http://iphoneflash.x8web.com/Site/iPhone%20Flash.html)

Apparently it didn't occur to the doofus that made that site that Chiat Day might have just superimposed video of a non-iPhone rendered web page onto the iPhone.

IM vs Text Messaging:

 There might be a way around this, but when I was looking at the data plan for my wife's new Blackberry, it lumped IMs with Text Messaging and said IMs count against your 'text message' quota. Maybe there's an app you can load that doesn't treat IMs as text messages, but I haven't looked into it yet.

Verizon has that same IM = text message ripoff scheme. What a joke.

Went and played w/ the iPhone a bit at the local Apple Store.  God damn, that's a sexy piece of equipment.  Makes me extremely excited to see what one of the other companies will put out that isn't as closed as this is though.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,133638/article.html#

I'll give them the top 5. The rest are either required and expected (durability) or meh (Coverflow). Unfortunately the bottom 10 are pretty serious (except #6 - all fiddly little devices require adapting, so adapt), and I could add a few, particularly at $600. I think that the sexy screen, great navigation, well integrated software and eye candy interface will sell millions of devices. However, although Apple is probably going to become a major cellphone player, I don't think this will be as successful as iPod in terms of market share. Not only is the competition better developed, consumer expectations are better set, and locking down service and applications and providing a yesteryear data network won't fly for a lot of people. Things could look up if Apple starts rushing out apps and if second generation handsets support better data networks and have more features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy20b7pCcrY

The negatives far outweigh the positives. Particularly the lack of audio/video on the camera, lack of orientation in email and IM options. I mean, really, no IM options? Half the phones Cingular offers has that. Apple should have taken f'ing notice.

Once again, watching ripped movies is not a feature that replaces BEING A USEFUL COMMUNICATION DEVICE to me.

#3 on the bad list I believe is wrong. Others have written that you can use a bent paper clip (Apple sure loves bent paper clips) or similar tool to pop the SIM card out of the phone.

#5 is partially wrong. Some headphones will fit in the jack without an adapter -- it depends on the molding where the metal plug meets the plastic molding.

#6 - The keyboard "magnifies" the keys that you press as you type so if you pay attention to that you can see what you are typing.

#7 - What would be really nice is if the keyboard could rotate for those of us with giganto fingers.

Let them support Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page) and then we'll talk.

On the other hand, its a sexier paperweight than a PSP.

My friend got one, I played with it tonight. It's very physically sleek, the google maps thing is AWESOME, onboard speakers are shit, headphone jack was fine for his headphones, the gui is easy to use and fairly intuitive, I had no trouble typing, was surprised at the lack of ringtones and IMing. Totally not surprised about the phone being as locked down as humanly possible, based on apple's past performance in that area.

Not even close to the price point I'd consider paying for the functionality it offers. It's a nice toy, and the early adopters get fucked because next year at this time round 2 will be out the door with all the fixes and 3g connectivity.

In 'defense' of the product:

From everything I have heard/read, most of the feature issues people keep going on and on about (IM support, music ringtones, voice dialing to a lesser extent) are all things Apple can wrap into a software update. They may even have those things in development but did not package them into the first batch due to quality concerns as they wanted what they did release to be polished. Apple did make a lot of "available at launch" comments about features on the device at WWDC, so who knows what they have planned in the next couple of months.


That being said, I have no desire to own one. Especially since it requires one to sign a contract with the devil SBC AT&T.

In defense?

Fuck this phone. No way to save pictures from the web. Been playing with it for a few minutes now, it's missing too much obvious to be purchased this gen - especially with AT&T branded shackles.

Edit: Chimpy, all of the stuff you said and what I said above should have been in at launch, really no excuse, it's not like it's Bleeding Edge Shit.

I presume folks have seen this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0EDd85F2pc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evideosift%2Ecom%2Ftop%3Fpage%3D2%26range%3D1)

iPhone is SO getting lumped in with the wii in schild's head. I can hear them playing racquetball in the little worthless cube-room already.

Is it more awesome than the Google Maps that I have on my Blackberry? Not being an ass, just wondering what else it brings to the application. Better integration? I would imagine if work hadn't cheaped out on me and had instead got me a Blackberry 8800 with its built in GPS, that would be the ultimate phone for maps.

Heh, I have come to the conclusion that regardless of what was included at launch, schild would still hate it simply because it comes from Apple.

Which is his right. Just like it is my right to take his rants with a grain of salt.

Well, teh future is here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUEPs0AXZXc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Evideosift%2Ecom%2Ftop%3Fpage%3D9%26range%3D1)

Hey now, I bought an iPod when it launched. Nintendo is and isn't Apple. While Nintendo is Thinking Different, they're doing it for the Sake of Thinking Different because they can't afford to keep up with Sony and Microsoft. Apple on the other hand Thinks Different Because It's supposed to be cool. And you know what, when they brought out the iPod and the original iMac, it was. It was cool as a motherfucker. Hell, I even bought the G3 Powerbook when they came out. iPhone has none of that appeal to me. All I ask of my next phone is keyboard and IM capability. I get a phone that can do neither, but boy can it Youtube. Nigga, please. Also, it - without question - costs more than a PS3 over time. And people say the PS3 isn't a good value. Hhurhurhurhruhruhrurhurhurhruhrurhur.

Probably, yes. The touchpad was pretty much made for google maps; scrolling by dragging a finger and zooming in/out by pinching or splitting with two fingers makes the interface extremely intuitive. I don't know what your blackberry interface is like, but I tried my friend's trio and he had to use scrollbars with the stylus... which sucked. Here's  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRZLozlSSE) a demo...

Hmm.  No comments how the iTunes update is reaming all user regardless of platform.

"I support yer iPhone - ph34r me as I trash your local XML"!

Do not upgrade from 7.2.

The touchscreen is nice, but there's a bunch of nice touchscreen phones in the wings with the Java needed for a regular Google Maps. On the Blackberry the scroll wheel moves the map up and down... left and right took a few seconds to figure out, scroll wheel and the alt key. Works well, but I'm sure that a touch screen would be fabulous. I still don't understand why they didn't put GPS into the iPhone. Or a useful camera. Seems to me that the techno elite with their iPhones are going to be carting around a lot of other electronics.

I'm not an early adopter when it comes to software updates, even security patches. I like to let the dust settle before pressing the upgrade button. So what XML is 7.3 breaking?

If you accept the auto update to 7.3 you'll receive a series of "-50" errors.  Basically the software cannot refresh its local database.  This problem is universal to mac and windows users alike.  The workaround is to roll back.  One can blow away their local database but you lose your ratings and played stats.

Welcome to iPhone. Sucks to be a longterm iTunes customer you.

Ever since Apple started 'upgrading' iTunes by removing functionality, I've turned off the auto-updating of iTunes and feel much better for it.  I'm still annoyed I don't have a copy of the version that enabled you to stream music from other iTunes in your same subnet - that was a very nice feature at my old job.

Not sure what you mean, but all recent versions let you "Share my library on my local network" under sharing options, and "Look for shared libraries" in another copy. Might want to check the options setting.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, didn't the trick involve making a remote connection to your home computer so you could listen to home tracks at work?

That made me laugh, I might have to see it now.

Hmm, I will when I get home.  At one stage it got yanked, I hadn't checked to see if it had been re-inserted.

I'm in the same boat as Schild, I bought the 5th gen iPod video and have no regrets; it's a great piece of hardware.  Nothing else that Apple sells appeals to me, however.  They're just in the business of making things pretty and slapping a huge markup on it.  Come on, $600 (and a shitty lock-in plan through AT&T) for a fucking phone?  And a phone that lacks a whole shitload of functionality?  You people are insane.

I updated my mini this morning and it's fine.

The streaming capacity has never been taken out. We all share our libraries here at work, it's one of the best things about our network.

Much as you might want to perch on that ivory tower lording over the rest of us unclean peons, I don't think anybody here has said that they've bought an iPhone yet.

A couple people here picked them up over the weekend. They're nice phones, sure, but they're not the robot zombie Jesus.

I'm a late adopter and a cheap bastard anyway. Call me when they're $100 or less and have a week of battery life. (Yes, I really do get 5-7 days between charges on my free little shitphone. :) )

Played with one for about 40 minutes in one of my local Apple Stores until they (nicely) started kicking us stragglers out. Some first impressions:

The keyboard sucks for somebody as fat fingered as I am. The landscape keyboard is not bad but that one only works in Safari.

There's no period on the keyboard "alpha" layout which makes typing in URLs somewhat painful, though there is a ".com" key when you are entering in URLs in Safari. Actually the URL key layout does have a period but the regular layout does not.

The whole portrait/landscape mode switching takes a lot longer than some of the initial videos made it out to be.

Landscape mode is not supported in apps where it should be like Mail.

Scrolling around in Safari is painful because of the constant "checkerboarding". Safari can't keep in the entire rendered page in memory so as you scroll around it has to fetch the new portion of the page from wherever and there's a painful delay while it does that. If you've scrolled quickly in Google maps it's like that.

Clicking on smushed together links in Safari is painful. You are constantly having to zoom in to select a link and then zoom back out to minimize the amount of the above checkerboarding. E.g. Surfing these forums was painful because the page number links and the subforum links are so close together and the pages are quite long "vertically" entailing a lot of scrolling with its subsequent checkboarding.

Clicking on things is sometimes very inaccurate. Some icons and whatnot I have to push multiple times to get it to register even when sometimes it'll highlight that I pressed it. Note I'm not talking about the delays certain ops have that then cause subsequent presses to "lag". E.g. it was having trouble registering that I was trying to click on the far left phone icon. If you watch the Engadget long intro video you can see many examples of this problem.

Google maps was tough to use for me. It was constantly trying to zoom in when I was just trying to scroll around.

The fucking on/off "sliders" need to die die die. Another example of Apple's fucking change to style over substance in their UI design. There's no way to tell from looking at the icon which way you are supposed to slide that thing to switch from on to off or vice versa.

I had trouble getting it into "Cover Flow" mode when playing around with the iPod features. You would think that anytime you rotated it would do it for you but apparently it had to be in some sort of mode first otherwise it wouldn't switch.

Doesn't come with any even simple games on it. I know Apple been anti-gaming since the Mac but come on.

The camera is too simplistic -- there's just one button to take a picture. No setting or other controls.

It would be much easier to use if it optionally supported a stylus, though apparently the touch screen can't handle one.

Needs more apps. E.g. it doesn't even have a todo list app (or maybe it was buried somewhere in the Calendar app). IM of course is a huge missing feature, though that doesn't bother me personally since I hate IM.

The iPhone is much thinner than I thought it would be and feels very nice in the hand. Another Apple miniaturization marvel.

Screen is very nice as well though I don't know how readable it would be in direct sunlight.

I didn't have time to try surfing over EDGE. I'll give that a try next time I'm in the store.

Edit: fixed key layout item

That's pretty much how I felt. I couldn't type shit on that keyboard. It took me about 2 minutes to do the whole alphabet because I kept fucking up.

Also, it's the most featureless web browser I've ever seen. The browser in my Samsung A900 has more features than that thing, it makes no sense to me. I can only assume they designed the software around the hardware instead of the hardware around full-featured software when they designed this thing because it just reeks of missed potential.

But yes, it is gorgeous and every yuppie is going to think it's the best thing since Jesus.

Designed by Ive@Apple, manufactured in miniature by Foxconn. iPod manufacturer Quanta are already working on a 2nd generation iPhone.

Foxconn is denying they are the maufacturer so that part is still a mystery.

Yeah, saw that - probably being literal when they say that - shell games, etc. There's so much stuff out of Hon Hai Precision Co. Ltd. that they have to be the manufacturer. Foxconn is just one of their trade names. So the iPhone isn't manufactured under their trade name.

Sometimes you say the funniest things.

I will guarantee you that there has never been a piece of hardware designed to support a piece of software.  Software is, exactly and only, the set of instructions used to control a hardware device.  Nothing more.

Huh?

Developing to an open standard or common interface is not software driving hardware development.

No coder ever said to the hardware guy, I would like opcode 00100110110 to be an indirect memory address pls.

But, if the solution to the problem that the software is be developed to solve requires new hardware to be manufactured, isn't that the same thing?

Exactly, the problem to be solved drives the hardware development and the hardware development, specifically the features of the hardware, drives the software development.  Chicken and egg.  You cannot have software until you have hardware to run it on.

"Hay guyz!  I wrote this code that will be sooooo awesome once you design a magic thingie to make it work.  Lolz!"

Maybe there is a piece of hardware that through software instructions does a particular calculation and then in a future release of the hardware the decision is made to incorporate that specific data transform directly to speed up the calculation but that is still not software development driving hardware development.

I was under the impression that back in days of yore, the outstanding benefit of Apple was that they did, in fact, closely tie their hardware to their software, making it peform far better than IBM clones because of that design philosophy, and also the reason that Apple's source code was a guarded secret.

Intels IA 32 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IA-32) instruction set is notorious for its CISC  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CISC)heritage.  The whole point of CISC is that software can be written to take advantage of specific hardware instructions thus tightly coupling it to the hardware it is running on.  Apple computers, up until the present used a RISC  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_instruction_set_computer)based architecture, which has the effect of making optimal compilers easier to write which then makes porting software between architectures easier.

Unless I completely misunderstand what you are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned what Apple had by way of advantages was all about the software. In the mid 80s it was because they were the only game in town with a GUI. Then they were the only game in town with a useful GUI. Then they were the only game in town with a GUI that had useful applications. Then they were the only game in town with a GUI and a coherent API. By the mid-90s, they weren't looking so clever though. Windows 95 brought Windows into serious play by finally adding an integrated network stack, cheap and free Unix was around and by this point Apple had procrastinated for so long that their OS was looking pretty archaic, was encumbered with extensions and crashed regularly. The only reason that anybody bought the Apple hardware was to run the Apple software. In fact Bill Gates has said quite openly that if Jobs had licensed Mac OS for use on PC platforms, Microsoft would have left the operating systems game to Apple and would have focused on application software to run on Mac OS.

Today Apple continues to make stylish and well designed hardware, that once again we buy only because we want to run their software. OS X is what I've wanted since Sun Microsystems stopped using SunView for their GUI - a Unix operating system that doesn't have the blight of X11. If another Unix vendor were to dump X11 and produce as good an interface as Aqua/Quartz and then attract a select handful of applications to their platform, they could put a big dent in Apple sales. Not least because nobody really wants their desktop Unix to be running on a crappy old microkernel. Though it might have made it easier to port it to a cell phone. Heh.

(Apple started using RISC in the mid 90s - prior to that they were on the Motorola 68K series of CISC processors).

Yep, that was pretty much what I was talking about.

The reason why Apple's OS didn't compete with, and destroy, MS's Windows in the late 80's - early 90's is that Apple considered itself to be a hardware manufacturer and not a software company (still does, really).

They also had a CEO who came from a soda company, and not one who had any experience in a technology firm. Just another fine example of how head-hunting for the "best CEO available" causes all kinds of other problems.

Eh, he did better than the guy Commodore got. :)

Which really is a damned shame.  I remember both the Amiga and Atari ST OSes as fantastic; way better than any other OSes out there at the time (Apple's included).  One of my friend's had the Amiga, the other had the ST (being poor, and funding my own computing through the money a kid earns, I had an old C64) and I honestly couldn't say which I liked better.  They were both good at certain things, but they damned sure were better than anything MS or Apple put out there.

The Amiga was brilliant both in hardware and software - including a truly pre-emptive multitasking OS complete with GUI in a few hundred kilobytes of memory. Just astonishing design - I wasn't a big fan of the default command-line interface (I used a Korn shell variant), but the core OS and the glorious Intuition GUI were incredible, and just such an elegant API to program for. I don't think that the ST was really in the same league, certainly with respect to some of the customer graphics chips or the OS (which was DR's GEM). However the inclusion of MIDI on its entry-level models made it an ideal music computer.

I've ended up getting the Moto Q. Basically, it's the Samsung Blackjack with Windows Mobile 6 in a super stripped down and fast flavor. Has built in MSN, the texting setup it nice, the browser is quite good (compared to the last browser I messed with...iPhone), and a bevy of other features. It's skinny, feels good. I hate that it doesn't have a volume rocker. I have 30 days to decide if I want to keep it, so I'm going to put this fucker through it's paces.

How much was it? No GPS and a camera from the dark ages. Nice layout & size tho. If you get the 30 day dealie with every phone just keep upgrading every month.

can only exchange once in 30 days. GPS programs are in plentiful supply and something I don't give a shit about since you can access google maps. Also don't care about the camera. I cared about IM and Keyboard support. It has both in spades.

GPS programs, but the phone doesn't have an integrated GPS receiver. Unlike this:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/smartphone/details.mspx?id=IDACYUTC&backUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fwindowsmobile%2fsmartphone%2fdefault.mspx%3fcurPg%3dAll

Which is okay. There are better GPS phones on the way though.

Yea, but that assumes you need GPS at all. I've got google maps on my phone. And I don't mean [access to] the website, I mean the application. There's also a slew of GPS things on the sprint network that simply locate you, and from that location lat/long you can input it into Google. Sure, it's not elegant, but for the ONE TIME I find myself in the middle of the desert with nothing but a bottle of liquor, my cell phone, and pure terror, I think it'll suffice.

There are no good GPS phones and there most probably never will be. You cannot fit a good GPS Antenna into such a device so all the phones I have tried so far have piss poor GPS reception and need ages to lock onto satellites. And forget about using those phones inside cars.

You can't fit a good GPS antenna into all th Garmin Streetpilot devices that we use either and they take forever to lock onto satellites. And yet they suffice.

seriously, schild... Apple could make the cure for cancer, wrapped up in the slickest package ever and you'd still find some fault in it.

I'm posting this from my iPhone, by the way. And yes the keyboard does take getting used to. But then, you never had any intention of trying it past the point where you could pan it anyway, so enjoy your windows phone.

How's EDGE?

Wrong.

I'd buy a cure for cancer.

And I'd have bought an iPhone if it had a proper keyboard and IM... and the ability to change the ringer to an MP3... and wallpaper and layout options...

What you meant to say was "Apple could have made a good phone and you wouldn't have bought it."

You'd have been wrong.

It's fine. I've been using it for 3 years now (the last 2 years on my A900). If you browse f13, you want to browse it with the following address though, http://www.f13.net/forums/index.php?;wap2

Sounds to me like a lot of the "keyboard" hate stuff Apple is dealing with is due to the unusually 'high' learning curve as far as input devices go. Somewhat like IBM had with the track-point in the 1990s. It took a little longer to learn how to use, but once people did learn to use it effectively they either did not mind using it instead of a trackpad, or (like myself) thought it was the next best thing to sliced bread.

Or people never learned how to use it and plugged in a mouse. Or used the ever present touchpad.

It's not the learning curve, it's the "making changes where changes need not be made."

As much as a Mac fan I am, I have to say that it's truly a joke when a 10 year old device using Palm OS can accomplish a basic UI text entry staple that is CUT AND PASTE is not supported in the glitzy iPhone UI that's heralded… …it might be a wonderous UI, but if it can't do something as simple as CUT AND PASTE, it's a failure IMV…

…not even going to mention the sellout to telcos with the SMS and non-IM client… (oh, wait I did…)

the keyboard is fine after a few hours. Then again, I always hated the tiny keyboards on treks and stuff, anyway.

I thought this was a very cute review from a non techy. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/fashion/05Cyber.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin)

Awesome review.

Battery life on the Q isn't long enough.
The mail options aren't what one would call "great."
Probably switching to the Mogul or the Blackberry World Edition when it comes out.

I kept a Q for all of a day before I went back to the store and picked up yet another Blackberry.

Have not tried the Curve or CDMA+GSM variant yet, but my current one is a 8703e and it works quite well throughout North America.

My only problem is how much more Blackberry charges for data. That's some bullshit.

Look at all you nerds and your PHONE talk!

Get out of my thread.

...okay, I don't have a rad phone, just a razr v3. I just got a Bluetooth headset and I feel like a douche for wearing it around.

I've only wished for a phone twice, ever. Second time was today, nokia is doing some special pre-sale concert ticket thingy (I ranted a few months ago about ticket availability). Need a damned phone so they can text shit to you. Hey, fuckers, email me like everyone else.

Ah, well. Maybe I'll get a phone some year. I really want a cell phone that has the old horn and earpiece.
(http://www.stencilsbynancy.net/assets/images/Old_Time_Phone_GS46.jpg)

Isn't that up to the carrier? I didn't see much of a price difference between a smartphone (say, the 8525) and a Blackberry with Cingular/ATT.

He's using Sprint. But that is one nice thing about the iPhone -- it's only $20 for unlimited Internet access. That's a lot better than, say, the $60 T-Mobile charges for the same thing.

$20 is pretty good; of course, it is only EDGE ..

I haven't looked too hard at Sprint, but I am thinking of switching away from AT&T so maybe I should head over to the store ..

I guess the other $40 a month is for something else then. As far as I'm concerned, its $60 a month for unlimited Internet access, because that's the minimum price of a plan.

Once again:
Http://www.sprint.com/sero

Use the email address John@Sprint.Com

As far as I could see there, the unlimited data plan was available for the Blackberry devices for the same price as for the Moto Q. You should get the 8830 - you'll be the envy of the desert.

Eh? No. Data on the Blackberry is in addition to Everything Else.

Add     Service     Monthly Fee     Sale Price
   10MB BlackBerry Email and Web 1    
$39.99
   
   Unlimited BlackBerry Email and Web    
$49.99
   $39.99

Add the plan to the cart and then a blackberry.

It's some BULLSHIT.

That's cause Apple is doing a crappy job of explaining the different plans. If you go to the AT&T iPhone site and check out the complete list of plans you'll find that if you have an existing AT&T cellular phone plan it costs an additional $20 a month to add "iPhone service" (SMS, Internet access, Visual Voicemail) to that line. The other $40 a month is for the regular cellular phone service, which you don't need and they don't charge you for if you have an existing plan.

Right... but "Smartphone Connect Unlimited w/Xpress Mail" which includes as full a data rate as iPhone provides costs $19.99 a month. What the iPhone works out cheaper than on AT&T is "PDA Personal Max" (required for any smartphone with a keyboard that isn't a Blackberry) or "Blackberry Personal Max" which are both an additional $39.99. So iPhone is nice in AT&T world because it costs the same as just about every other internet capable phone, but not as much as they want for Blackberries, Treos or Windows SmartPhones. The "$60 that T-Mobile charges for the same thing" is the full monty... so it's the same price - comparing it to the $20 you have to add on to a $40 plan is disingenuous... but not just limited to iPhones and other phones free of keyboards. In fact, choose a Blackberry and its $10 a month cheaper. Which just says to me, if you want something with a keyboard, and work ain't paying, avoid AT&T. Zing.

The Sprint "employee referral" rate is pretty sweet. If you avoid a Blackberry. Seems suspiciously cheap.

I'm confused.

I did the employee referral thingy, and when I do a blackberry 8830, on the plan page it says:


$30!!!!! (with 500 anytime minutes)

Something must be wrong. When I get to the end, it's still only $30/month for unlimited web/data access.

Edit: Never mind, it seems to be doing it right now (requiring the blackberry data plan) - must have been a glitch.

The BlackBerry 8830 Data Plan is listed as extra shit on the bill. I absolutely promise they'll nail you for the $40 a month.

I wonder why they don't charge for a data plan for the HTC .. seems like a good deal if you can get unlimited web/data and voice for $30/month, even if the phone is $288.

I might be trading the Q in for the moto, you have 30 days to decide if you like the phone and you can cancel your shit any time in those 30 days or trade up or down on the phone front.

Serial console access enabled on iPhone:

http://hackint0sh.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1408

Let the hacking commence!

http://iphone.fiveforty.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

(http://lpahome.com/iPhone/console.jpg)

Filesystem unlocked:

http://iphone.fiveforty.net/wiki/index.php/How_to_Escape_Jail

Yeah, it's great if you want a totally overpriced gadget...

But will it BLEND? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI)

Man, that battery falling apart really incinerated the rest of that shit.

awesome

Is that what the smoke was?

iSmoke

Yes, that blender guy really has like 3 days to live.

But they'll be glorious days that mere mortals like us can only dream of.

It's like the question that Aphrodite posed to Achilles; you can live a long, fruitful life as a nobody or you can die young, but live on forever in glory in the memories of men.  I think Achilles and Blenderman both made the right choice.

Second-hand iSmoke is the worst. It's the subtle killer.

Don't pass gas.

Even though he's a totally owned pawn of the Blendtec corporation, that guy is indeed teh awesome.

Watch him blend lightsticks. Hmmm... I wonder if ravers will blend...

You would have to dice them first to fit, but they would blend.

Getting the cuddle puddle to all jump into a cuisinart sounds like an interesting trick. I want to see the video.

It may sell for more than it costs after its blended... now at $406...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170129995323

You do get a free BlendTec blender though.

He's the CEO of Blendtec.

Analyst slapfight. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070712/bs_nm/apple_jpmorgan_dc_3)

http://www.videosift.com/video/iPhone-gets-iPwned-by-simple-web-page-hack

That cracks me up. Basically, two guys working at JPMorgan have competing views of the next inevitable iPhone:

Guy 1: Cheaper and slimmer version inspired by iPod Nano
Guy 2: Bigger and pricier version with "high speed cellular Internet connections"

I'm going with Guy 1. Built in wi-fi sorta negates the usefulness of fulltime high speed cellular unless you're always out of range of wi-fi but happen to be in an area where AT&T gets good coverage. This is not the way to radically grow your audience after the initial bleeding-edge geek fest that was launch.

Meanwhile, if Apple can pull off a cheaper (and not just ammortized-cheaper) version but-as-usuable version of the device and get that picked up by another (better) carrier, they have real potential. That's how you get even more customers, like those sitting on the fence of sticker price.

At the same time, I have long contended though (as others have) that the size of the device is dictated by the use of a fingertip. They can't really go too much smaller unless they design for use by stylus.

I <3 my AppleTV.

That is all.

The iPhone might tank in Europe without high speed internet, not many here put up with GSM Edge anymore.

iPhone unlocked (for some SIMs):

http://www.give-a-mac.com/iphone-full-unlock/

Hotness.

You can also just buy a fake iPhone from China with more features. (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/e7e48a137b144110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html)

Hey Schild, do you have a new email address that works with this? Seems like John has expired ..

Mail Call! (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3478095&page=1)

Heh.

I laughed: "'AT&T should get a new tagline -- use AT&T, kill a tree,' he said."

This "news" came out last month. Not sure why this is getting coverage again. Must be slow news month or something.

I guess it's been unlocked now. (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/24/iphone-unlocked-atandt-loses-iphone-exclusivity-august-24-2007/)

So yea, that New Jersey kid managed to hack it with two Russian guys and a few others. Unfortunately for the world they can only make it work on a T-Mobile connection. Big whoopdidoo considering who owns T-Mobile.

I am only interested when you can put any SIM card in there so I can make it work on Sprint. Otherwise I'm waiting for my next trip to HK so I can get an iClone :)

Sprint uses CDMA not GSM so that would be like never (CDMA phones don't use SIMs). The reason why Engadget is showing it using T-Mobile is cause AT&T and T-Mobile are the two GSM providers here in the US. An unlocked iPhone will work with any SIM from any GSM-using country since the iPhone is quad-band (supports all four international GSM frequencies).

 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070905-apple-unveils-new-ipod-touch-fat-ipod-nano-at-special-event.html

Frankly, I'm disappointed in this launch.  80 GB iPod touch with wifi?  Sold.  16 GB iPod touch without phone?  Nah, I'll wait.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Downgrading from 80GB to 16GB? Nah.

Glad I got an iPod when I did, even if the fiancee bought me a 30gigger when I need an 80 :P I knew they'd be going to the bigger screen and touch interface and wanted the ruggeder 5G setup.

I wish they'd break out an audiophile version without anything but audio and nice text graphics, screen size about like the 5G but monochrome, massive hard drive. Seperate the wifi/video/coverflow jazz to the trendy models.

They just dropped the 8 gig iPhone to $399 and are clearing out the 4GB model at $299 if anyone was still on the fence.

I gotta imagine that while early adopters are used to getting boned, they'd prefer that Apple use some lube next time.

iPod "Classic" now does 160G

I must confess that iPod Touch looks really cool, the drawback for me is again, the lock-in making the device unusable (other than iPod) as a PDA offline which would be really cool for me, to log notes and such, but it looks like it's just a dumb implementation of Safari, without ability to do localhost (which I would put a personal Wiki and sync with Mac at home/work)…

And let me say, that the Starbucks deal — there is a "Starbucks" button on the device that pops you into the current song playing in a Starbucks for your purchasing pleasure. The iTunes store access is free, but Starbucks is still going to foist a $7 charge to you, in addition to the $7 you already plunked down for a couple of overpriced cups of coffee… …WORST THING APPLE HAS DONE EVAR!!!!

(http://img103.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2007/09/05/cb38f0ccc5c2f7a7e74d8caf0da754e1.gif)

Who cares?

Edit: Also, check list for typical shitty Apple product:

1. Is it first gen? -Yes
2. Is it a version of another product, only with less features and a very marginally reduced price? -Yes
3. Is it made by Apple? -Yes

Yep, it's a pile of shit.

Really, what I want is the All-In-One PDA/Phone/Music/Video/Wifi/Internet/Email/Game/Camera/Etc thingie.

If it came in a slick little case that fits comfortably into my front left pocket I'd drop a grand on it, easily, but it HAS TO have enough storage not to be gimped (like 80GB would be a bit light).

We're close, and the end is in reach, but we ain't there yet.

Starbucks Wi-Fi access will be free if you are using it to access the iTunes Wi-Fi music store.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070905/wr_nm/apple_starbucks_dc

Still waiting on 3G model -- EDGE is just too fricking slow.

If you have a healthy sense of schadenfreude, check out the iPhone forums (http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1139), though they're locking/hiding/deleting as many threads by people pissed about the price drop as they can.  Apparently their 'loyal customers' aren't too keen on being boned in the kiester to the tune of a $200 early adopter fee after 2 months and have been somewhat vocal about it.  Engadget/Gizmodo comments are almost as good.

Not surprising. $200 is a huge cut, relatively speaking. I can't remember a time that Apple's done that for a product so new.

If you want that much storage you have to put up with the bulk. Craming a 1.8" hard drive/solid state drive into the iPhone form-factor would add significant thickness to it (an 160 GB 1.8" hard drive is 8mm thick). Someday there will postage size 128 GB non-volatile memory devices but we're a ways off from that.

From the article:


Access to the iTunes Music store, not the internet, unless there's been some clarification posted on this that I haven't seen yet. I doubt T-Mobile is going to give a free pass to iPod/MacBook users…

That's what I said:

Edit: Oh never mind I see what you are saying.

I'd be fine with 16mm thickness (1.5x a current gen iPhone).  My current phone is thicker even than that and it doesn't bother me.

They are trying damage control. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070906/tc_nm/apple_iphone_dc_1)

Early adopters usually pay a higher price for an inferior product. Its the price you pay if you want to be cool rather than smart.

True, but a 33% drop in price in a month is a pretty steep early adoptor tax.  Still, Apple fanbois have been getting screwed cash wise for years, so they should be used to it.

Heh, that's amusing. That's also a nice hit to their profits (400K * $100 = $40 million). Some people have managed to get $200 refunds on their phones. I wonder if they are clever if they can get the credit as well.

Apple users will throw away a 20" widescreen flat panel when they upgrade their computer. They have some issues. I love OSX, but there are definitely some flaws to the hardware thing. At least they've got intel chips and the mini, that's something.

On the iPhone price drop, letter from Mr. Jobs (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/openiphoneletter/)


The new devices (iPhone, iPod touch) are really nice, there almost there, the lock-in is what disappoints me.

Still, I may take the iPhone plunge, as my current contract has been up for quite some time (Nokia + T-Mobile), and while the iPhone is gimped in unbelievable ways, it, to me, is still far superior to other smartphones on the market, be they Motorola, sidekick, blackberry, Sprint, etc.… …and the monthly rate is about the same I pay now, and I don't have net access on m phone (my phone is 3 years old now), at least…

Folks that buy iMacs arn't interested in hardware upgrades, they'll use their iMac for 3-5+ years, then buy a new one. It may shock posters in these here forums and serve as ridicule fodder, but many just want to plug a box in and work with their Mac, and are delighted by the form factor (no tower to allot space for, beautiful screen that will serve for the life of that machine… …we have a iMac in the home (the family computer ), but the bulk of my computing is done on MBP that plugs into big screen monitor…

iPods being liquidated at Costco
http://theappleblog.com/2007/09/08/ipods-being-liquidated-at-costco/


Given reports of a less than stellar UI that is on the new line, may not be a bad idea to snatch one from the discontinued line at a discount…

Rumors of a 3G iPhone in November.... If they came out with one of those and you could still get one for $400, I might just have to do that ... (but we'll see if it comes true - if not, it's back to the original plan of a BB Pearl on Sprint)

Why does it have to be 3G? Standard 3G data rates are up to 384 kBit/s (if you are the only one using it in your 3G-Cell), the same as with EDGE (maximum data rate is 384 kBit/s)

3G would make sense if it were a HSDPA chipset (up to 3.6/7.2 GBit/s) and that is most likely no option for the EU launch because the baseband unit would have to be completely redesigned. For standard UMTS, only a WCDMA-Coprocessor is needed to make the Infineon S-Gold2 chipset UMTS capable and there is space on the baseband module left for that thing.

While EDGE is technically 3G, here in the US when people talk about 3G they usually mean HSPDA/UMTS as in like this:

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/technology/3g-umts.jsp

So? I know that. Reread my post. All that I am saying is that pure UMTS isn't any better than EDGE as far as data rates are concerned because both can do up to 384 kBit/s (under ideal circumstances). You'd have slightly better audio quality because the audio codec is better and can use more bandwidth than with GSM, but the maximum bandwidth is exactly the same with EDGE or UMTS.

3G only makes sense if you have an HSDPA capable chipset and the baseband of the iPhone would have to be completely resedesigned for that. HSDPA-capable chipsets also have sad battery life at the moment. My super duper N95 only lasts half a business day in UMTS-mode.

The GSM part of the iPhone is an Infineon S-Gold2 Chip (Quadband-GSM + EDGE) one of the features of that chip is that it can be upgraded to UMTS by using a WCDMA-Coprocessor and the current iteration of the iPhone already has the solder pads for another chip on the baseband module most probably for such a coprocessor.

So they could upgrade it rather easily to a "real" 3G iPhone, but without HSDPA you wouldn't gain anything (except feeling better because you have an UMTS iPhone).

To incorporate HSDPA would mean a complete redesign of the RF section and I don't think that they will do something like that for the EU launch. It also would mean that the RF section would be much larger than today because HSDPA-capable chipsets are not as highly integrated as their GSM or standard UMTS counterparts.

Hewlett Harbor man racks up $4,800 iPhone bill (http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzappl0908,0,2929341.story?coll=ny_home_rail_headlines)
He put his phone into sleep mode while travelling overseas, thinking that meant it was off. His iPhone regularly called home to preload his email for him, while charging overseas data rates. Pundits now recommend removing battery from iPhone while on the road. Epic lulz.

It that is true (leaked instead of fake), I'll buy me one of these:

(http://images.derstandard.at/20070909/tmobile.jpg)

$700 phone + nearly $100 a month for the only reasonable plan? Man, that's fucked. It's a _goddamn_phone_ that isn't that useful as a _goddamn_phone_ to begin with.

You don't know much about our WONDERFUL data rates, obviously. 50 Euro for Unlimited Data Rate is a steal at least here in Austria.

My current provider takes 55 Euro for 5GB data per month and 0,10 Euro for ever MB after that.

T-Mobile Austria gives you 10GB/0,10 Euro for the same price.

And thats just data rates, no free telephone calls or SMS included.

He should have just went into Settings and toggled on "Airplane" mode, which shuts down any Wi-Fi/cell phone transmission… …still, I hope he gets alleviated from that egregious bill…

And, I broke down and bought an iPhone, taking advantage of the discount & all…  …the monthly plan is cheaper than my current one (T-mobile), and unlimited email/internet + virtually unlimited night/weekend minutes is cool — I don't do very much SMS, so I didn't have to contract for additional text message allotment, which is where one gets raped here.  Though with unlimited internet, don't see why someone can't just email into Jaiku  / Twitter / Tumblr / Flickr (photos) to accomplish the same — all of those can be configured with an obsfucated email that you can ping messages to…
 
Seeing the 160 DPI live in person actually sealed the deal, it is a small screen display unrivaled by any other smart phone. I looked at Blackberrry and RAZR, but they are inferior IMV, at least for my needs.

Still, it's far from a perfect solution fo all my needs (would be nice if I could DL text/html files for reference/reading, but there are enough viable workarounds), but it sure could be, if they ditched the stupid lock-in and let me treat it like a device (yes, I know that's possible w/others, but they are gimped in other ways to me…).

Have not had a problem with the touch keyboard, other than then O/P on the right edge that my large and fat fingers haven't grokked yet, but far better than the tiny buttons on other phones. And the web browser experience is unmatched by any other, due in large part to touch screen finger UI… …the iPod features are sweet, but disappointed that the sync cannot be manual. Well, technically, you can sync manually, but the podcasts and songs are specified via parameters (like last 1/3/5/10/etc. unplayed/new for each checked…, 10 most recent, etc.)…

Thankfully, data on a phone is still, totally, a luxury.

If prices were like that in America, I'd have a dataless phone. See, that's why prices here are low. We won't pay if they're too high.

Stop paying for WONDERFUL data rates and prices will go down.

So, what exactly makes you think I care about that? I have the money it would cost me, so why should I give a fuck that I could start a capitalistic crusade if I deny myself the luxuries I want to have?

I just explained to you that the rates are not high for around here, because you didn't know that. I compared with existing rates to give you the ability to put the price into context.

Yah, what's lame is that they count AIM traffic as text messages too - even though you have an unlimited data plan. That's the one thing I'd probably use it for regularly.. aim'ing while traveling.

Why not? UMTS/HSDPA support/covereage in the US is very poor but that's not the case in Europe. Analysts have been saying for a long time now that not having UMTS/HSDPA would hinder adoption in Europe. Do you not agree? Sure battery life is going to take a hit (AnandTech did an analysis of the Blackjack with 3G turned on and off (http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3036&p=1)) but you can let the user make that tradeoff.

If they'd do that the new iPhone would have already shown up at one of the certification bodies either the FCC or one of the european ones if they plan a Q3 release of the phone . Integrating UMTS and/or HSDPA would require recertification of the Phone.

Also a HSDPA capable UMTS-chipset is quite a bit larger than the one currently used in the iPhone so they'd need to redesign a significant part of the baseband module. If they had planned something like that I think rumors would already have shown up.

Not for everybody.

If you've been thinking about getting the 4 GB model think faster -- it looks like they are running low, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Edit: oh and the software unlock that's out now? It works, or so I've been told.

Edit2: heh, Apple's iPhone Finger Tip videos aren't viewable on an iPhone.

It's a Newton with a phone latched on to sell it, just long enough for them to announce the obvious and predictable follow on (http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/guidedtour/) :)

Having said that, I'm seriously considering the iPod Touch even though 11 PDAs in my life prove I'm not a PDA kinda guy. I'll probably wait a few months though to see if Sprint picks up the iPhone (doubtful), the iPhone gets 3G capabilities, or they extend that cool "works over your wi-fi too" phone capabilities to it (or have they?)

One more time: Sprint is CDMA, the iPhone is GSM. Also, the iPod touch is not a PDA.

Edit: and even if they could manufacture a CDMA version of the phone in the near future, making it available on Sprint would break their exclusivity deal with AT&T and I'm sure the AT&T lawyers would be happy to draw up a lawsuit (ching ching ching).

BTW, the iPod touch released two weeks early -- some Apple Stores started getting them in yesterday (in very limited quantities).

The iPod iTouch is an iPhone without the cellphone capability. It's a PDA + iPod + camera.

And I didn't say any of that was going to happen. I'm just saying those are the gates.

Forgot about the CDMA/GSM thing though, but the AT&T exclusivity isn't going to last forever if the thing becomes a bigger hit. A million units since launch isn't bad, especially if they hit their wish of 10 million by years' end. That'll turn some heads. It's not like either company is any stranger to renegotiation.

10 million is by end of 2008.

As for the iPod touch being a PDA they took out, among other things, the Notes app that the iPhone has (even as crappy as it is). The iPhone nor the iPod touch even have a todo list. It's really not a PDA unless you just need a very stripped down Calendar and a very stripped down Contacts list but a regular iPod can do those things and I don't see people calling those PDAs.

Why the hell did they take the Notes app out? It has Safari so I'd just be using iGoogle anyway. For the most part I'm never somewhere that I need a PDA that doesn't have wi-fi. But still seems odd to leave the Contacts and Calculator and take out the notes/drawing thing.

No idea why they took out Notes. Maybe they moved it somewhere? it's not one of the buttons on the Home page.

The Notes app is sufficient enough… …at least for to-do lists, meeting notes, or stuff (like goals)… …was surprised that the Calendar app did not support to-do lists, but it isn't like the OS X calendar app is any great shakes… …but the ability to take notes and have contacts, calendar, etc.… makes it function as usable PDA for me… 

…I love my iPhone but I think all iPhone owners have a love/hate relationship with it, and I believe more than ever now, that Apple is at a juncture here, that they could leverage all the market steam they've accumulated or blow it all as they did in the late 80's - mid 90's… …the devices need to be open, and they should be "team players" and be able to interface with other devices…

My mini review of iPhone:

GREAT:

* …it's a better iPod than an iPod, and works (thus far for me) seamlessly with the phone, i.e., the microphone clicker/control on the headphones will answer calls, skip to next song, stop/start playback…

* …one click email of photos, notes, etc.…… …probably the easiest tool to post to web (via email that feeds, or even JS bookmarklet…)

* …best mobile "yellow pages" type resource I've seen to date… …last night, located a pizza place (via Google maps), from there, a 1 touch to phone/email/visit web site and the Google maps application is spectacular,  the way it crisply scales up and down, and seems to function even better than the web (browser) application…

* …160 DPI, Nokia 800 has that beat, but there iPhone w/ cool image resizing tech makes better use of the space…

* …best mobile phone browser I've seen to date,

* …like that I can carry one device to handle phone, PDA, iPod… …my iPod is sitting now, and is a candidate for eBay (if I don't donate to someone with lesser means…)

GOOD

* …the keyboard touch interface is very good, and IMV superior to the tiny button deals on like products… …unlike other devices, response is quick and no pressure needed, still haven't mastered keyboard entry by any stretch (especially when using Grafitti on old PDA, I could enter w/stylus faster than I could type) but I'm competent enough at it to enter text at a decent rate… …and the integration with the web form entry is done better than I've ever seen on a device this size or less…

MEH

* Dumb app icons that cannot be adjusted (why I do need to 73 degrees and Apple stock on Home panel?, calendar icon shows current day, why can't those display your 1st/default choice)…

* Web browsing on a phone, is not the primary use of a phone…

DUMBFOUNDED AT MISSING FEATURES

* …no GPS which would utterly make this device spectacular with the Google maps application, minus all the other pieces…

*  …NO CUT AND PASTE FUNCTIONALITY, come on, a 10 year old Palm OS PDA can do cut and paste, but the company that caters to making delicious UI can't implement cut and paste?

POOR, BIG REASONS NOT TO RECOMMEND

* …doesn't play well with others! Needs iTunes to sync and the sync, unlike the iPod, is at a "summary level" — i.e., sync limited to playlists, or last 1/3/5/10 unplayed/new in podcasts (works well for weekly news type podcasts, but not series which you'd like to start at episode 1)… …simply cannot believe that with Wi-Fi, it cannot access/be accessed by other machines at file level…

* …amazed at the number of apps available, given there is no SDK, hopefully this will change… …this device could be mind blowing even if you did Safari 3 development to place your own widgets hitting localhost…

* …AT&T, though all the carriers suck IMV, except possibly for T-Mobile, who suck but not to the gutter level as the others…

* …despite Bluetooth capability, cannot use phone as a modem, if I was still circuiting across the continent on a regular basis as I did a few years ago, that would certainly be a deal stopper

* no IM, and AT&T rapes customers on SMS (lowest plan only gives 200)

These three reasons here are why I haven't bothered to get one, even though I have at least $400 budgeted for my next phone.

I easily use the browser (Opera Mini, thanks again to all that helped with that one) on my RAZR way WAY more than I use it to make calls, so lean more on the Blackberry/Jack side of things than pure-cellphone side. I've been able to play around with the iPhone quite a bit and have gotten used to most of the features, including the keyboard. But it's the phone service that isn't any good in the area I live, the lack of 3G support (afaik) and by extension that it cannot be used as a modem which, and the number of OS nuances that I'm sure will be patched over time that am making me wait. I had thought the iPod Touch was Robot Jesus, what I'd get so I didn't have to tie myself to AT&T. Until this thread.

A few tidbits on the Edge coverage…

…it seems drastically variable, at times it works like a charm with no irksome delays and other times it flakes out/becomes extremely slow… …but interesting thing is that it's only readily apparent on my email fetching (I have like 4 email accounts setup on the deal…)… …web browsing seems to render at same pace as Wi-Fi (for most pages)…

Differences between the iPhone and the iPod touch (besides the obvious phone features):

http://www.iprong.com/article.php?id=3003

Great summary. Thanks for linking. iGoogle may fulfill most of the needs I'd have that were stripped out, but I'd need to test it a lot more before trying. Next time I'm in an Apple Store...

I'm a consumer whore. (And how!) - I got an iPhone this weekend.

Jailbreak/3rd party app install & unlock is now done through an automated process so easy a chimp could do it - achieved through numerous programs on windows and osx. Independence and brickr were the two I saw first and I used brickr since I have a PC. It took about 10 minutes, with a click-through step by step process. I signed with AT&T, since it was only $5 more than t-mobile, that $5 wasn't worth the risk that the next iphone firmware update breaks the unlock stuff.

There are tons of aftermarket apps on it now, and it seems to do everything I need it to do -- a phone, sms, gmail, a car mp3 player for my audiobooks, mapping program, web surfer / ebook reader for killing time, and a little camera. It also plays videos but I don't really see the need to watch stuff tv on a 5 inch screen.

Not getting an ipod touch after reading that article. What a bunch of completely unnecessary gimping.

If and when my 60GB video iPod dies I think I'll do the unthinkable; get a Zune.

I don't watch movies on my iPod, I don't care about photos.  All I care about is audio, and the Zune at least seems capable of that.  Plus, it's way cheaper.

It's $50 cheaper for 50 GB less space.

Yes, if you unlock the phone, tons of apps available… …including the ability to tether the phone's net connect to your laptop… …myself, I've been leery of jailbreak, at least just yet…

Jailbreak is different from unlocking, it just allows you to run 'unauthorized' apps or something. I didn't unlock my phone, I'm with AT&T still. As for worrying about jailbreak blowing up something, there are tons of ways to do a full restore straight from itunes.

Feh, get a Nano.

Can a Nano store a little bit north of 100 gigs of music?

ETA:  Ouch!  Didn't know how limited in space the Zune was.  I guess it doesn't even have that saving grace.

(http://us.i1.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/flickr/36/20/000492693620.jpg)

That big? Really?


That's what your hard drive is for. You're here at all so definitely at a computer enough to organize and sync more than once a month ;) Do you like insanely unpredictable random playback?

The Zune, yea, stick with the iPod of some form. It does suck that the non-video ones don't have the beaucoup storage of the Video.

Why yes, yes I do.

"Jailbreaking" gives you access to the iPhone's filesystem. That's what allows you to make changes to the iPhone software, install applications, ringtones, wallpapers, etc. Once you have access to the filesystem you go through a separate procedure to actually unlock the phone so that it can use any SIM (there's also a step in-between to activate the phone itself).

As bhodi said there's a procedure for restoring the software, including the firmware, to a "pristine" version so it's difficult to actually "brick" an iPhone.

The storage is what makes them large. The advances in capacity have been pretty good, though. 160GB is perfect, imo, finally. My girlfriend got me a 30GB for xmas, which is great, but it can't hold all my music. I mostly took out my metal collection and some of the later discs of multi-disc collections to get it to fit, and I can't put much new stuff I buy on it without taking off other stuff.

I would ideally have all my music on there, yes. Whether I get in the mood for a certain artist, or I'm jamming along on guitar and need something in particular, or another common one is talking about a specific version of a song and playing it to demonstrate the point ("The Allmans are basically doing a straight rip of Taj Mahal's version of Statesboro Blues, here, listen"). Also, we take our ipods when we travel and I want my whole library with me in the car.

And my ipod is not formatted for windows, my home pc crashed a few years ago and I lost the hdd, haven't bothered putting the music back on there yet. I hope someday to get around to buying a fat firewire drive and putting lossless versions of everything on it. But I'd reeeaally like that 160GB ipod...but it's politically infeasible because my fiancee would get pissed as she just got me the 30 last year...

Discussion of the screen issues on the iPod touch:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=356322
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=355803

Also, no 3G for Euro iPhones (UK launch is in progress right now).

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone

Edit: apparently the iPod touch "shimmering"/"negative black" effect is showing up on some iPhones as well. I guess that's one of the ways Apple managed to cut the price so much, it looks like they switched to a cheaper/lower quality screen.

I checked out some iPod touches yesterday and one out of the three I looked at had that "negative black" effect though it was hard to see it with all the glare from the overhead lights in the stores so definitely buyer beware if you are thinking of getting one.

As expected Apple's 1.1.1 iPhone firmware release is disabling unlocked phones. If you have one best to just not update things until the hackers figure out how to restore functionality.

Also looks like you can't buy a new 4GB iPhone anymore .. only the 8GB version is on the new Apple store.


edit: grammar

They stopped selling those online when the price dropped. You need to check at individual stores to see if they have any left.

So i gof my grubby hands on an ipod Touch finally. Damned thing is quite impressive. Pretty much a good micro portable for what i need to do and already i'm typing faster than i can evwn on a BlackBerry.

Dunno if jailbreaking used to be complex, but nowadays it's a joke. Stick with firmware 1.1.1 for now, thouh you can patch to 1.1.2. I haven't seen any reason to yet though.

So far all my use has been on posting, some movies and podcasts. On that last bit, i am missing the thumbwheel from my nano. The slider for media playback is pretty small and therefore much less precise.

Some fun games for it too. Favorites so far are Lights Off and Labyrinth.

Apple just announced new programs for the iPod Touch, but they're really just the ones the iPhone users get by default. I'm posting from my Touch or I'd give a link. It's on the main page.

My question is this: are those available for all users or are they tied to a firmware upgrade (which makes them not worth it for the jailbreak crowd)

Also, in case you hadn't heard, iPhone deb kits available in February. Not sure if it's a full suite of tools, or just sdk documentation. People haven't needed that to make apps, but this move makesit legit, which could mean we don't need to jailbreak anymore, unless Appl continues to keep the file system locked to remain the sole channel of content distribution (in which case I'd just keep using the installer that is part of jailbreak).

The iPhone apps for the iPod Touch cost $20. Firmware 1.1.3 is required as well.

Free for the iPhone though.

Not much too them. Though the pseduo-GPS is pretty cool - will draw a circle where you are and you can do directions from Google Maps. Very nice.

Can mess with your home icons and create multiple pages. Create icons for web page links. People going crazy with photo links, custom redirects (like creating your own F13 57x57 png and then redirecting to f13.net…)

On the other stuff…

* Mac Book Air — sweet looking, but no ethernet port, no firewire, no optical drive… …and an extra $1,500 for a smaller SSD drive (80G v. 64G)

* iTunes Rentals - meh, 2.99 for movies, 3.99 for new releases, 4.99 for HD, but 30 days after DVD release and while you get 30 days to play, only 24 hours once you hit play button… …bleh, NetFlix better deal or going to Hollywood video where you get the stupid DVD for 5 days for the same price… …downloaded bits should be at least 50% cheaper if not a 1/3 or less of physical item cost…

* Apple TV 2.0 - better, but if it can be totally separate from computer, than it needs some sort of browser so you can fetch videos from podcasts or other repositories…

The iPhone already comes with the new iPod Touch apps :uhrr:

The stuff you are talking about is the 1.1.3 firmware update which both devices get for free.

That thin Macbook is interesting, particularly with the mulit-touch (should really call it double-touch) trackpad element. However, the rest of it, yea, if I was a complete Machead with a Mac home computer and iTV to go with my iPod Nano that was replaced by my iPod Touch, that stuff would be interesting. Otherwise, there's just too many ways to get movies to care about a service that doesn't nearly have enough of them (imho).

Thanks for the prices Trippy. Forgot about that part. That is a stupid move in my opinion. All those apps together aren't worth 20 bucks. I already have most of them just by using the iGoogle I've been using for free anyway. Charge for Web 2.0 applets ftl.

So really, no need to upgrade to Firmware 1.1.3. Every day I'm glad I didn't get the iPhone... so when my tinkering bricks this one, I can just reset it and still make phone calls :)

No, it really is "multi-touch". E.g. it can distinguish between two fingers down and three fingers down.

You sure? Unless the tech in the Thin is different, the only thing my Touch does with three fingers is bounce back and forth between the inputs of the second and third finger :-)

Really need an app that tests that maybe.

It's in the MacBook Air intro video. Three fingers swiping right or left are used to activate Forward or Back in your browser.

There seems to be a bit of confusion here. You can upgrade to 1.1.3 for free, only the apps cost 20 Dollars (which of course because Apple are assholes is 18 Euros since exchange rates are for suckers obviously).

And they are free in the new (cheaper) ipod touches, which makes me a sucker twice over having bought my touch last month.

I've been curious on how well the iPod Touch was going to do vs the iPhone vs the new Nano. This move (charging existing customers, free for new ones) seems to indicate it didn't sell as many as they would have liked. They're trying to remove some of the capricious gimpyness they had in order to not "confuse" people about it versus (read: drive people to) the iPhone.

@Trippy: I'm trying to find a program to run on my Touch to prove this out. But using three fingers to do the job of single finger can do isn't multi-touch. :-) I'll feel better if three (or more) fingers can be on the Touch (and therefore theoretically the Thin trackpad) drawing three different lines concurrently. It's not a big deal of course, I'm just wildly curious because of the emergence of truly multitouch devices, like MS Surface (51 simultaneous inputs) and a few others (HP, Mitsubishi, etc).

If that's the case they should've just given the apps away rather than make you buy them.

No, because one finger swiping left or right in a browser scrolls the viewpane left or right and two fingers is used for the "pinch" move. If you have an issue with this take it up with Apple, I'm just repeating what they are saying.

The multi-touch on the Mac Book Air is on the track pad or multi-touch pad where you three fingers can be used to resize windows, etc.… …thing "gestures"…

The iPhone (and iPod touch) is touch screen where I don't think "gestures" is the idea — more flipping screens left or right, double one finger tap to zoom, two finger tap to zoom out, pinch in/out to zoom in/out… …nothing complex, but intuitive to the point you don't think about it, it's most natural UI…

…which is why I was so disappointed that they didn't trot out some sort of Mac Tablet deal — like between size of iPhone and MacBook, all touch screen, something you could couple up with bluetooth earphone/mic and have phone | ipod | browser | mini-computer | video player… …no keyboard, just iPhone style imposed… …would be incredible gaming machine too, blowing away PSP and DS…

Ok, finally got a chance to watch the video. Man it's sucked not having a good connection for the last few days.

I don't have an "issue" with what they're saying. I'm curious, not emotionally invested. Multitouch is at a stage right now where the first-to-market gets to define what it means for consumers. But having had a hands-on with Surface, I have my own view of what mulittouch is.

If Apple can show moving a photo to the left with one finger while rotating it with two other fingers at the same time, I'll change my opinion :-) It's still cool with what's there.


I am with you there. A 13.1" screen with iPhone tech would be fantastic. The current tablet PCs are cool enough by themselves, but an oversized iPhone would be what I replace my Touch with.

Nah, <= 12 inches, and preferably 7-9 inch range (like Day Planner size or less). Something you could stick in your jacket pocket or in backpack (or case)…

Question on Firmware 1.1.3 for anyone:

As mentioned, $20 will also get you the little foozles that come free on new devices (and always were on the iPhone). None of those programs interest me, though there is something nice about being able to customize the springboard. I get all of that from having Jailbreak'd.

However, the one thing that would make me upgrade is the ability to play rented movies. Right now (with Firmware 1.1.1 Jailbroken), I can only play movies I rented on iTunes through iTunes itself.

Haven't tried renting a movie from iTunes store on 1.1.3 yet…

Thought about getting an Apple TV post v2 release, but this type of thing dissuaded me:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/9469

SDK is announced (http://www.macworld.com/article/132402/2008/03/appstore.html). You can watch the whole Town Hall presentation here (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/keynote/). Info announced includes:

• App Store: buy or get free programs through an App on iPhone and iPod Touch. Like Installer for the Jailbreak crowd, but it looks nicer.
• As usual, every program developed for one will work on the other (except those requiring cellphone and bluetooth of course)
• Developers get 70% of the revenue generated from a purchased, paid monthly
• Enterprise solutions. I'm sure there's others, but the one that stuck out for me was Exchange Server. Wootzorz. Won't need that Blackberry now.
• Free update (2.0) for iPhone, fee-based update for iPod Touch (like 1.4). While I might grouse as a user, it makes sense financially.
• Already being supported by companies, as shown in that video.

I'm excited. And I hope this kicks iPhone sales into high gear again. We need to open the mobile platform up in general in the U.S. rather than it continuing to be locked behind the inconsistent middle management of the carriers.

I'm not sure if having everything locked up with Apple is that much better, but it's a start. The SDK does look pretty damn solid though; I was certain they would release an overly restricted version, but it sounds like a nice open API. As long as getting apps into the store isn't too hard, I think they have something here.

I'm jazzed about Spore on the iPhone. The game looked pretty damn sharp on it. I <3 my DS, but I wouldn't mind having some real games on the iPhone too.

I'm friggin Batman at this point when I fly: DS, PSP, iPod Touch. It's to the point I just use the laptop to leech power for iPod if I need it.

Competition and all that. :-)

I was thinking about a utility belt when I left for work this morning. I had my ipod, my digital camera and my cell phone. Pretty standard stuff, but 3 years ago I didn't have any gadgets. They were all gifts, heh. Some tech guy I am.

I'll be picking an iPhone up as soon as my current contract with Verizon expires.  maybe by then they will have a 32 gig version out?   :drill:

Rumor is, at least word that leaked out from AT&T is that 3G model is coming… …though Edge has been fine for the sort of tasks I use when going online (except oddly, in some locales and infrequent intervals where the Edge connectivity seems to slow)…

On iPhone, it is so nice just to slip ONE device into pocket that serves as PDA (missing TODO list but it syncs Calendar entries), phone, iPod, and soon, hopefully can fill the role as DS/PSP killer… …all I really want is a non-jailbreaked e-book reader and for gosh sakes, how about some fscking CUT AND PASTE capability… …but games would be cool too…

On SDK, looks like Apple is going to control but it is still open and the 70/30 split (and the iTunes store will handle all billing chores, but you have to register for $99, which is still cheaper than obtaining your own SSL certificate) looks like it may entice developer interest… …still not as free as in allowing F/OSS DLs from your own site…

As soon as it does, I'm totally getting an iPhone.  With the new SDK and all the crap they're adding to it, this phone will quickly take over the world.

Think they'll just announce it in June to coincide with the iPhone's birthday?  I know they released this SDK stuff early, maybe they're saving the newer version as a 'suprise'.

Yah I'm waiting for a 3G version too - though my ATT Tilt works pretty well, except the whole WinMo thing.

Does the iPhone support tethering over Bluetooth?

You mean DUN? Looks like the iPhone's bluetooth profile only supports hands free stuff.

No.

Unless hax0red as Bluetooth is supported…

Well screw that piece of crap!  :cry:

Btw, DUN isn't the same thing as tethering. Tethering assumes you already have a data connection on your phone (ie: EDGE or 3G) and "networks" with your computer to provide a gateway to the data connection (as though you were connected to a router that is connected to the internet). Works pretty good.

DUN is where you use the phone part of your cell phone to dial into a dialup connection, bypassing any blistering network speeds you already get.

I think.

If they come out with the rumoured 3G version, I'll just carry two bills till my Verizon deal runs out. Unless it comes out soon enough where it'd be cheaper to pay the early termination fee.

Yea, I know, it's stupid to pay that. But come on... 3G open iPhone!

an SSL costs less than $14.99... sorry for interrupting. someone back there mentioned them costing more than $99.

Well don't get too excited. It's not actually "open".

a) only 1 third party app can run at a time
b) answering a call closes any 3rd party app (or doing switching to your calendar, etc)
c) third party apps can't use the data connection, only a wifi connection
d) it has to be bought and sold through the itunes store

And I'm sure there's some others. If it was truly open, then I'd be much more excited.

Is flash finally going to work, that's my question.

Last I heard, no Flash. Apple wants Adobe to make a special Flash player just for the iPhone, 'cause apparently FlashLite isn't good enough. We'll see what happens.

Steve Job's thoughts (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200803041742DOWJONESDJONLINE000829_FORTUNE5.htm).

I'm honestly not quite sure what he thinks is missing from Flash Lite though. I don't think there's any max-pixel issue. And it's not like the iPhone has the capacity issues that a mobile does. I wonder if it's more an ego thing, where allowing Flash Lite would mean the iPhone is less unique than phones.

Only "D" talks about it specifically not being open. The others are limitations of the system, but I'm pretty sure that's standard across all mobile sets. At heart, these are still phones first, so the phone function takes precedent over everything. The iPhone tries to integrate things a bit better.

Not using the data connection, while a limitation, also makes sense given the data plans these companies use. The iPhone is relatively pricey enough without overages.

I'm not a raving fanboi. I like the platform, would definitely get a 3G iPhone if it comes out. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than anything else I've used over the decades. Baby steps.

Um, no.

Not talking about shared hosting deal — a Verisign certificate (or other CA) and that typically entails a dedicated IP address adds up to more than $14.99… …in the legitimate business world, sorry, but that Dreamhost | GoDaddy | $OtherBulkCheapWebHostCompany is no fly…

On Flash: Flash sucks and has always run even more slowly on OS X… …even on Windows machines its UI can be jerky for applications that require crisp and responsive feedback… …stepping back from WebKit is a de-evolutionary step IMO…

On Single App Attention: not much different than Palm OS, just a realization of the limitation of the platform but I will grant that Apple may still be precarious in its annointed gatekeeper self assignment — it most definitely rules out GPL F/OSS applications. And Apple is going to put the kibosh on anything that reroutes around AT&T (or other telco partners). But, it's not a desktop computer.

We'll see if developers jump aboard… …it hasn't really worked out for iPod game developers… …so we'll see… …haven't had a chance to look at SDK yet (when I tried to DL Thursday night, it was still /.ed…).

Godaddy may be a lot of things but illegitimate it ain't. Nice try though.

Except that you are required to have an unlimited data plan when you buy the phone - what overages? Just because ATT doesn't want that much data traffic on their unlimited data plan, doesn't mean I as a consumer should need to consider that.

But you are right, still a sight better than anything else so far.

Isn't AT&Ts general network sorta crappy? I mean, yea, as a consumer we shouldn't have to care about that. But for the amount of data the iPhone wants to be pushing around, I'm not even sure the bigger networks would agree to it unless they charged even more for the broadband package. Grabbing iPhone movies is a bit more than crappy two-minute phone-screen microshows :-)

I don't think their EDGE network is as good as some but their 3G is the best there is in the States. Their voice network (GSM) is OK, but not amazing.

I just upgraded to 1.1.4 on my iPot Touch. Pre-emptively, as it turns out, because you can't yet actually buy the software developers are making and Apple plans to aggregate through an installer.

Err, yea. In any case, I paid the $20 for the four apps including the Map one. I did so mostly because I didn't believe the Map app could actually fix my current location. So I had to know.

Turns out, it does.

This isn't universal though. For example, on the wifi network at my office, it won't position me. But it will at the local Starbucks (which abut places that provide wifi for free), and it does so at home and at my folks.

Anyone know how a device without bluetooth, GPS and even cell tech can position itself?

Huh. I figured it was cell tower triangulation (and thus far, works well on my iPhone from anywhere (though I haven't been out of state since the feature went live))…

On Edge: is weird that @work and @home (which is irrelevant because it goes to WiFi for mail | web) can be slow, and I don't understand why even on Edge connect, it can take a few seconds for email, that's mainly packets of simple text, to load… …whereas time spent in Prescott AZ, the Edge was loading both mail and web pages in a fairly snappy fashion…

It probably uses a network location map of some sort - a lot of web analytics software does the same thing based on IP address.

Your work probably goes through a vip in some datacenter else where - does it show someplace near corp hq? or nothing at all?

Edit:

Ah hmm. I think it uses this:

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

So ignore what I said above - IP address maps usually aren't any better than major metro area anyways.

Huh, that Skyhook thing is interesting. Combination of technology and people doing research. Interesting stuff.

@naum: I think the iPhone just triangulates cell towers. But my iPod Touch doesn't talk to cell towers :)

The iPhone will use whichever is more accurate, Wi-Fi or cell tower triangulation. Hopefully the next vrsion will have GPS support as well so I can find myself in the boonies.

I'm not really up on this whole spectrum-purchase thing, but apparently Verizon got a huge chunk at $9.6bn. One rule though is they need to open it up to other devices and allow those devices to run any app they want.

iPhone on Verizon by end of year? Or does the rule mitigate the need for the iPhone to be on a Verizon plan?

Not going to happen unless Apple is willing to cough up a tremendous amount of money to break their exclusviity deal with AT&T.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/press/skyhookapple.php

"BOSTON, MA - January 16, 2008 - Skyhook Wireless, provider of the Wi-Fi Positioning System (WPS), today announced Apple is using its technology for the new Wi-Fi location positioning feature in its Maps application on both iPhone and iPod touch."

So, yeh.

AAAWWW HELLS YEAH

 :awesome_for_real:

Hehe.

Thanks Murgos.

Good point Trippy.

(and all that done without SBing... woot!)

Didn't see it here yet so posting this (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18951) for posterity. New 3G iPhone official. $199 and $299 models (8g and 16g), with GPS. Official 2.0 coming, supporting the sale of programs through an on-springboard UI. Some games noted will list for $9.99. In addition to supporting ActiveSync, MobileMe went live (http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1847) so you can sync wirelessly now (instead of having to be tethered), for $99/yr and includes web-based versions of the Mac offline programs.

Downsides include in-store only activation (http://gizmodo.com/5014764/iphone-3g-pricing-and-activation-details-30-unlimited-data-activated-in-store-only), new and interesting ways of being charged by AT&T, and Apple specifically needing to approve all software loaded onto the device (so don't go forgetting about the jailbreak crowd).

AT&T and Jailbreak necessary are killers for me. I don't have a contract with a phone company but I'm not willing to deal with AT&T or Jailbreak. Fuck that.

:headscratch:

I don't understand any of that. Are you on a pay as you go plan now or did already go through your mandatory 2 year contract with whoever? Why is jailbreaking necessary? Is T-Mobile better in your area?

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13422.0

Dunno why it's in Serious Business, though.

Because it is serious business.

Geez, was wondering wtf an appgasm was :-)

Off to the other thread then. I'll get you next time Oban!  :-)

AT&T I can see. But Jailbreaking's as easy as buying and patching an MMO. And I mean not-fake easy that non-techs talk about. Visit the right site from your Touch/iPhone and you're good to go.

I won't say everything you can get is actually worth getting though, which is why I'm interested to see what sort of quality standards Apple enforces, or whether it's just a ploy to ensure only "good" partners get in.

Yeah.  I am in agreement will Schild (is the sky falling?  :oh_i_see: ) on this one.  Billed in new ways?  Stuck with one plan for 2 years?  Let me have the phone and just be able to connect wifi like ala the DS or PSP, and I will then just get a nice Go Phone plan until data rates are like 5 bucks a month for any reasonable usage.  (Mapquest, weather stuff.. basically things I can do on the iMac FOR FREE.)

Until then Apple and AT&T can keep waiting.  Ill stick with my Ngage QD.  I can has Warhammer 40K and Pathway to Glory.  And a phone I barely use outside of emergencies.

That's what the iPod Touch is for. And is the reason I bought it. Almost any application that works on the iPhone will work on the Touch unless it requires hardware not on the Touch (GPS, cell, bluetooth). Even Jailbreaking is similar. And it has the Weather, Maps, Stocks, etc that all come free if you buy it these days. And finally, the Application purchaser/loader thing coming for iPhone 2.0 will be on the Touch as well.

Except there's no phone on the iPod Touch.

What Jain Zar wants is what I did with my iPhone -- mine is jailbroken and unlocked and I'm using it with my existing AT&T phone plan which I didn't want to change and my old phone's Cingular SIM which also means no data access, though I can still add that separately to my plan if I want. I can access the Internet through Wi-Fi wherever there's a public access available or at home. I unlocked it even though I'm still using AT&T cause I want to be able to use it in Asia and I wanted to use my existing plan/SIM as mentioned above.

Edit: just to clarify I don't have any data plan cause I don't use my phone enough to justify the extra $20 (now $30) a month for it but if I had activated it the normal way that data plan is mandatory for the iPhone.

Jailbreaking is not necessary unless you don't want to use AT&T, in which case, pick another phone. This isn't the first phone that has ever been locked to a carrier and it won't be the last.

Jailbreaking is a prerequisite to unlocking but it's also the prerequisite to allowing you to run your own apps on it and to modify it in ways that Apple did not deem acceptable like non-iTunes custom ringtones.

Edit: I should also add that some of us like to be able to use our same phone worldwide which requires jailbreaking and unlocking.

How much does it cost to jailbreak and unlock? And how do you get the phone without them activating it on a new ATT plan?

Jailbreaking is free last I checked, ya just download the software and go. However you can't get a 3G phone without activating now. You have to activate it in the store. With the 2G phones you activate the phone at home through itunes.

Yeah, you have to wait till July 11th.

I'm not sure I follow. They have carriers in over 70 countries now, correct? And then AT&T has international plans, right? So you should be able to use it in most places around the world, but perhaps I am missing something.

You can use it anywhere, but you have to pay AT&T roaming fees. Normally with a GSM phone you can just swap in a local SIM and get reasonable fees.

They're a SIM-popping tool included in the box.

First hour I had my iPhone I popped out my sim card. It flew across the room and landed inside my gf's makeup bag. It took me over an hour searching for it to find it again. I had a very clean living room after that. I hate the little springloaded shit piece of plastic.

Ah, so roaming fees are the issue. Ah, well, it's not anything new, and it's not like consumer behavior will change to force the companies to change.

Odd question:

So with my iPod Touch I'm occasionally near an ethernet port but not a wifi signal. If I don't have my laptop, is there any device that would let me plug my Touch into an ethernet jack?

No.

No, but yes.  I use an Airport Express when I travel since most hotels have ethernet jacks in their rooms and no wifi. 

http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/ (http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/)

Passes vpn traffic flawlessly too.

So that thing plugs into an electrical outlet and you can plug an ethernet cable into that?

Yes, it does other cool things as well, but it is small and really easy to travel with.

I've also used Airport Express to beam iTunes library out to speakers on the porch…

I use it to connect my evil polluting HP colour laser to the network in a remote section of my house when I am home.

The new nano is fucking gorgeous. The new iPod is fucking ugly.

(http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1459/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/touch/img/overview-hero.jpg)

No.

(http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1459/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/nano/img/overview-hero.jpg)

Yes, please.

To elaborate, I understand the layout of the iphone. It needs that black space for the speaker. But the iPod touch should really just be a giant surface. Right now it's just... awkward, funky, and unclean.

Also:

(http://images.apple.com/ipodnano/images/overview_buynowstrip20080909.png)

Purrrrrr.

(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7299/ipodnanohero20080909wh8.jpg)

Pretty!

Huh? The Touch looks like the iPhone now (chrome rim). The new Nano might look nice but it's a horrible form factor being so tall. It might have been okay if the screen was actually 16:9 but it's the same as the 320 x 240 as the previous generation which has the short fat dumpy look but was actually of very practical shape and size.

I'm a fan of tall and slim versus short and fat. What can I say. I'm the modern man. These are beyond sexy.

Also, caring about ratio implies this would be used for watching movies. Do people really really do that on a nano?

I watch TV shows on my previous gen Nano. It's actually quite nice.

I see you're a versatile guy. Willing to watch TV on a nano but not willing to watch a 720p MKV from the interwabs. :oh_i_see:

Maybe he has tiny eyes.

I can't carry my desktop computer around with me wherever I go. Also once again, MKV H.264 TV files not in 720p (or 1080i).

All today I thought the new Apple ad said "funniest" instead of "funnest" for the new Touch.  I was trying to figure out what exactly was funny about its features or tech specs.

/facepalm

You know what's fucking gorgeous?  Being able to watch a movie on a pocket-sized device without having to hunch or squint.   :drill:

Okay I take that last part back, some actually are in 720p, though that's not the original resolution. E.g. The Gen Kill HDTV Torrent is in fact at 720p but the original HBO broadcast is in 1080i.

You know, I thought about it yesterday. I have never once seen what 1080i looks like. Every piece of HD content I've ever experienced was 720 or 1080p.

Interlacing is super sucky.

Wuh? Looks the same except the silver border/back shape to match the 3G iPhone.

It's not an iphone though. It doesn't need that giant border. Trim that shit down. Odds are they're saving that change for a revision they can sell for full price even though they could do it now.

I'd guess it's more a line look aesthetic thing. Silver is the new black. Further, without having one to hold, that curve they added to the back makes this look suspiciously close to the size of the 3G iPhone housing, which is overkill for the Touch but can be explained away as spreading their existing manufacturing tool/process (vacumetallizing is pricey) over multiple SKUs.

Except the 3G iPhone's back is plastic.

I see the 'border' as actually being places to put your thumbs when holding the thing in widescreen mode without your own fingers obscuring the video that you're trying to watch.  If they cut that border out, you might be able to hold it between thumb and pinky if you had a decent-sized hand, but that would have to get hellishly uncomfy after the first few minutes.

Do we know for sure the iPod Touches shown there isn't? Vacuum metalising plastic is not electroplating metal.

I just took a look at my 3G iPhone though and the form of the back housing does appear to be different, so no common-mold efficiency gained there. Schild should be happy to see though that while the Touch has the same silver frame around the front, it is at best 30% of the visual line weight of the iPhone.

Apparently these episodes are free on iTunes right now:

    * He That Believeth in Me - Battlestar Galactica, Season 4
    * Fun Runs, Pts. 1 & 2 - The Office, Season 4
    * Lipstick Jungle: Pilot - Lipstick Jungle, Season 1
    * Four Months Later... - Heroes, Season 2
    * Pilot - In Plain Sight, Season 1
    * Mr. Monk Buys a House - Monk, Season 7
    * Ghosts - Psych, Season 3
    * Merit Badge: Pilot - Life, Season 1
    * Bad to the Drone - Eureka, Season 3

Go to Tuaw for the linkies (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/09/10/free-itunes-hd-tv-shows/).

Yes we know for sure:

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/whatsnew.html

Posting from my iPod now... The keyboard is freaking me out in that I can type without looking at the keys.  On general principle I feel obligated to despise typing without buttons, but I have to confess that it is well-implemented.  Too early to say whether it'll ever be more than a toy, but as toys go it's pretty swank.

All of the executives I know have replaced their Blackberries with iPhones. 14/14 converted.

Had one hold out in California, but after two months he became one of us.

Have faith in the auto-complete.  You have to mangle the word pretty bad for it not to work.

Duck, ducking, shut and trucker.

Auto-complete wants me to clean up my language.

I guess I don't curse nearly as much as I thought because I hadn't run into that yet.

After a while of correcting it into Fuck, it starts to autocomplete that way.

Yes, I noticed that.  Still made for a week of interesting emails.

Fuck the iPhone (notice the autocorrect capitalized the p).  At least until they put in some actual phone features like voice control over Bluetooth headsets, and put it on a better network than AT&T.  Plus, being a microsoft (gee, autocorrect didn't capitalize that one) partner, I'm mildly obligated to recommend windows mobile to customers looking to integrate a phone with their exchange server and would look suspicious if I did that while carrying an iPhone. 

Windows Mobile, what a ducking piece of shut.

Windows Mobile sucks. Really, everything sucks. I'm in desperate need of a new cell phone, and I'm half tempted to hope the SE Xperia X-1 comes out here.

I need a keyboard. The entire cell phone market can eat my ass.

Have you tried the iphone keyboard or is this preemtive hatred?

Because from my experiences with the Blackberrys we use at work it handles worse than my iphone.

I just bought a prepaid Motorola RAZR2 because I want a phone to place and receive calls.

Nothing fancy, just something that sounds good and is small enough to not make a bulge in my suit.

Still using the iPhone when I travel, bought an unlocking chip for my 3G, but it is not an everyday phone for sure.  The keyboard is quite nice, but I only SMS and send mobile email when I am out of the country.

I'm planning on getting a BB Bold (http://www.blackberry.com/blackberrybold/) in a few weeks.

I've tried it, yet. I don't like the blackberry keyboard either. Right now I'm on an HTC. Those keyboards are mostly love. A tiny bit cramped but then, it's a phone.

The new Treo Pro is a sweet Windows Mobile device.  Onboard GPS/Wifi/Bluetooth, voice control over BT, expandable storage, 320x320 touchscreen, real keyboard, built-in VPN and remote desktop support, everything I want in a phone.  Unfortunately it's only out for GSM networks right now, leaving me out in the cold.  Palm's commissioned HTC to build a CDMA version, and I'm hoping it'll be on shelves before the year's out, 'cause I wants it a lot.

The new HTCs just came out today.

My Cellphone will continue to be my NGage QD with a nice cheap Go Phone option.  (25 bucks every 3 months, 1 dollar per day I use the phone and 10 cents per minute.  Renew in time and the money rolls over into the next.  No requirements to actually pay bill on time or anything.  Perfect for emergencies and the odd convenience call.  WHICH IS WHAT CELLPHONES SHOULD BE USED FOR PLEASE GET THOSE FUCKING IDIOT STICKS OFF YOUR FUCKING EARS PEOPLE YOU DONT NEED TO YAMMER EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY FOR FRACKING SCHNARK!!)

And I ordered the new Touch because its basically a pocket computer.  Mine even is getting the engraving.  (My RL name and "In space, no one can hear you scream."  This will be rad.  If only there were all the color choices the V4 Nanos have.  I'd love a deep blue.)

220 plus 59 for Applecare (I used the service on my Dual Core Imac when the HD decided to stop being.  They sent a tech to my home to replace it.  And in a quick timeframe.  One of the few protection scams that's actually WORTH IT.) and its still 30 bucks cheaper than if I had bought it the previous week sans Applecare! (The extra 10 is for the App Store functionality those turtlenecked fuckbags decided to charge for on the Touch V1.)

Plus I can use this program on it:
http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/08/21/machdice-offers-arbitrarily-sided-dice-rolling-simulation/

I just need to then grab a PDF reader program (or similar file manager for extra usefulness..) and I have a portable RPG and Hobby Gaming minicomputer that also plays all my music and has lots of other nifty uses.  Even movie playing.  Plus with the built in speaker I can RL grief the fighting videogame players who are taking up space and buying very little at the game and comic shop whilst I play the Warhammer.  (Can we say Wesley Willis on an endless repeat loop?   :why_so_serious:  )

And I don't have to be the Anime Schoolgirl to AT&T's Tentacle Monster.

o rly what carriers

iTunes 8 takes down Vista with 'blue screen of death' (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9114468)

Oops.

I updated yesterday and didn't have a problem. But I didn't plug in my iPod. :awesome_for_real:

no problem for me with my iPhone (edge not 3g) and the new iTunes.

So, I sorted out all of my music.  Found album art for everything.  Loaded it all on the ipod.  Took two nights, but everything's all pretty and working.  That done, I turned my attention to programs to add to it.

NERD RAGE ENSUED.  HULK SMASH SHITTY ITUNES APPLICATION STORE!

Holy crap, for being a company based on user interfaces, Apple did a piss-poor job of laying out the application store.  The only way it offered to sort things was by date, name, or 'popularity'.  I say 'popularity' because some of the most 'popular' things on the listing had piles of bad reviews, so apparently something doesn't have to be liked to be popular.  The applications had nothing in the way of keywords or meta tags, and many of them have names with no hint about what the hell they do.  I went in looking for basic network IT tools, but every search I attempted would dredge up piles of useless crap with just a few good hits.

It's not an insurmountable problem, but it is an inconvenient time-waster, and Newegg and Amazon both make it look like a retarded chimp.

wait, your issue is that the iTunes store has a amateurish way of indexing songs/iPhone apps available for purchase? Nothing to do with your iTunes songs and how they are listed on your own computer? I ask because, sure, I agree, Apple is very very lazy about the iTunes store, like any monolithic company. I suspect Microsoft wouldn't do a better job either.

Yeah, my problem's with their app store index/search.  I've never really had a problem with finding music on there, and my own music library's disarray was my own fault, which's why it took me so long to neaten up.

Never having seen Microsoft's music store, can't really say whether they did it better.

Supposedly, SUPPOSEDLY, T-mobile will have Android phones next month. So sayeth some newspapers.

9/23 in fact.

I ordered my Touch Tuesday.  Fed Ex arrived today.  They left their stupid YOU MUST SIGN FOR IT thingie.
I could have had it today!  It would have been a perfect reason to call in sick from work! 
DAMN YOU FOR BEING EARLY FED EX. 

Never have I wanted a company to be.. slower at shipping.  :heartbreak:
I had a printed out presign paper I was gonna stick to the door monday, but they had to be 3 business days early.

I need a keyboard too, which is why I <3 my Tilt. Nobody else at my company really goes for it though, I'm the only one on one.

I never use the keyboard on my Tilt, I almost always use the touch screen keyboard (with stylus). So the super thickness of the Tilt is wasted. Thus I will be either switching to an iPhone (damn it peer pressure!) or hold out for the Blackberry Bold, which is still big with a keyboard but not so damn thick.

I can write about 10,000 times faster (scientifically measured) with the keyboard than I can with the stylus.

I don't doubt it, I just don't do much texting on my phone. I read a lot, but not much typing.

Ah, I primarily use mine as an email device. The size/weight has never bothered me much but we have plenty of users who have rejected it for those reasons.

Yeah, I'm faster with a physical keyboard than touchscreen tricks.  Apple's touchscreen keyboard's better than any others I've seen, but it's still slower for me than the keyboard on my old Treo, which is itself far far slower than a real keyboard.  Given that I'm used to pulling over 80 WPM on a keyboard, any handheld device is akin to watching paint dry in comparison.  I try to avoid typing on them as a result, or keep things brief.

Meanwhile, the trials with the itunes store continue.  The applications encompass  a wide variety of crap, and there's not much of a way to filter the crap out, or at least I have yet to find a way to sort by an app's overall rating.  You'll find utterly sweet programs, like the 99-cent die roller mentioned on the last page, and you'll find programs that cost several times more while offering less, and the only way to find the gems is to spend a minute or so reading feature lists and reviews for each and every product.

Once you find something you like, though, it's dangerously easy to get it.  You just pull up the list from the ipod, hit the buy button, put in your itunes password, and it automatically charges you and downloads the application.  I really appreciated the smoothness, but compulsive buyers could rack up a whooooole lot of expense that way.

Gizmodo has an "apps of the week" post on Fridays. I've picked up some pretty good apps on their recommendation. My current list of worthwhile apps is:

Simplify Media
Pandora
OmniTuner
NowPlaying
Urbanspoon
ToyBot Diaries

Isn't that the point?  :evil:

Thanks for the recommended apps list - I broke down and got a 8gb iPhone today. Been going over the app store (at least the free ones) and haven't really seen anything all that interesting.

I now use the iPhone's Safari browser to access about 95% of what the applications provide.

Sad.

If you have any designs on using the thing in an ipoddy capacity, take that right back and get the 16 gigger.  Thanks to Apple's 'a gigabyte is 1,000,000,000 bytes' bullshit, the actual capacity's 7.45 gigs, and any apps, emails, files, cached browser content, music, videos, etc. are gonna have to fit in that for the life of your phone, with no external storage slots.  If you're just gonna use it as a phone, then disregard the above.


There's a free file transfer app that Gizmodo mentioned today, Air Sharing.  It lets you transfer files over wifi to and from the normally-inaccessible storage in the iphones/ipods.  It's free as a promotion until the 22nd, apparently.
\

?  Explain, please?

I believe what is denoted here is that most of the AppStore offerings are nothing but glorified web frontends… …for instance, there are a bunch of Twitter apps but basically they're just native UI that access internet APIs and maybe an extra feature (like location tracking or attaching a photo)...

There are some good apps that don't fit that, and while it's not the majority I'd say it's >5% now… …games, nifty apps that let you setup your iPhone as a WebDav server (letting you use it as a disk volume and put documents, media, etc...)…

Ah, yeah.  I'm not opposed to a good interface for a web-based task, if it was for something that I was doing on a regular basis.  But there are a lot of plainly useless apps out there, no denying it.

The only app I have that does not correspond to something I can pull up on Google is iLevel.

Everything else is either a Google App or something the Google search engine can tell me.  (News, currency conversion, weather, sat images, language translations, flight information and expense tracking.)

USB power adapter that came with 3G iPhone in the US and a few other countries is being recalled:

http://www.apple.com/support/usbadapter/exchangeprogram/

So much easier to just use a laptop to recharge the phone though.  Not even sure where I put the compact charger, but nice to know I can exchange it at an Apple Store at some point.

Found a guy in London selling unlocked 3G iPhones for an obscene amount of money.  8GB for 750 pounds and 16GB for 1100 pounds.  Little bastard had a smile on his face when he told me the prices. I am quite happy with my SIM card kludge for twenty pounds now.

Go Apple!

Does anyone know of a way/app to send your (GPS/triangulated) location to another iPhone user?

Generally it's referred to as an address...

Sorry for the snark, I couldn't help it.    :awesome_for_real:

An address doesn't help when you are in a mile square park and trying to hook up with your lost buddies. :P

The iphone is officially dead to me. It went from option to obsolete. Will deal with my broken but out of contract phone for one more month.

I use mine for hours a day.  So easy.  One slim little gadget, slides right into a pocket, does everything I could reasonably need to do when away from home or my office.

Yeah but can your phone do this:

(http://media.tumblr.com/q2a3P9EShdu15hw3jlBRPBjEo1_500.jpg)

(http://media.tumblr.com/q2a3P9EShdu14uq1gMyaHrSro1_500.jpg)

Hai i have a psp. It can do this:

(http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/761/761685/winning-eleven-pro-evolution-soccer-2007-20070205071200716-000.jpg)

Without a lame onscreen dpad and a/b button. Also Murgos, note, it has a KEYBOARD and BUTTONS.

How do you use your PSP as a phone?

Do you at least have WiFi on it?

Otherwise, WIN for iPhone - PHONE + CAMERA + WEB_BROWSER + IPOD + GAMING + PANDORA + EMAIL + PDA

In one device without having to tote all sorts of gadgets about like some kind of dork…

I have a PSP.  It's collecting dust at the bottom of my sock drawer.

http://www.x-plane.com/iPhone

it's just a matter of time.  Why fight it?

Android, no seriously.  With the restrictions and NDAs Apple has with their SDK and AppStore many developers aren't either bothering with creating apps or have given up.  I expected all those open source gurus to start coding like crazy for this thing and it really looks like they haven't yet.  They can't access enough parts of the phone and even if they come up with something interesting (after months and months of coding), Apple could deny it for some stupid reason (like duplicates iTunes functionality). 

I expect Android to kick the iPhones ass if those open source guys get behind it (couldn't see why not at this point), I just hope, I just hope it doesn't feel like a bunch of separate pieces rather than a whole OS like Linux has been in the past (So you have your kernel and then the distro and then X11 or now Xorg and then the Desktop Window Manager.  Programs can run in the DWM in QT or GTK or godknows whatelse).

Edit: And that said I love my iPhone and use it continually at LEAST 8 hours a day.  I feel paying 96 bucks a month for it is an honor rather than a burden.  For now.  :awesome_for_real:

YES, for just any software other than games…

NO, and as an illustrative example, what blockbuster F/OSS games are you currently playing…???

This might come as a shock, but fuck games.  This thing isn't a PSP, I don't really care about high budget 3D games on my cell phone.  All I have in terms of games now are stupid little fun ones like Cube Runner, Tris, Aurora Feint, Dactyl, and BSkiesLite.

I bought it more for its utility rather than its entertainment value (beyond the normal iPod stuff), I just wish we got our real GPS with turn by turn directions already.

And, in a couple of years, when Android is on ver 2 or 3 and the iPhone is looking like it can't compete, I'll switch.  And, in the meantime, I will have wrung every bit of utility and value I could out of the iPhone.

YES

I hope Apple loses (for all their proprietary and narrow minded market focus), but right now, it best phone on the market…

It won't be on October 22nd.

(http://www.htc.com/uploadedImages/Common/Shared_Image/Gallery/T-Mobile_G1/large4.jpg)

THAT'S A FUCKING KEYBOARD.

*Giggle.*

Don't make me redname you. :awesome_for_real:

Android uses the Linux kernel, and makes use of a number of open source components (webkit, libpng, libjpeg, zlib, etc, etc), but it does not run X, GTK, QT, and whatnot.  The Android platform provides its own toolkit, libraries, and UI.  It is going to be released entirely open source when the G1 ships, so I'm sure people will busily port all that wonderful unix desktop crap to it, but the important thing here is that Android is an open source mobile OS built on top of the Linux kernel and other open source pieces, not "UNIX for phones".

I'm pretty proud of it.

If you want UNIX for phones, those openmoko people have a device that does that.

- Q

So, um, what's the deal with the head-phone jack on the G1?  Whose bright idea was that?

HTC *really* likes their multipurpose connector.  You can get 1/8" headphone to HTC multipurpose adaptors for $5 or so online, but I certainly agree that just having a regular headphone jack would be nicer. 

Neh.  The interface gravely fails to grab me on that thing.  I got the same vibe from watching the demos that I do when messing around with linux distros, the feeling that the interface falls into an uncomfortable place between the stark utility of Windows and the shiny of Apple, failing to achieve the benefits of either.

I highly recommend Air Sharing for the iPhone crowd. It acts as a file server/web server and lets you store arbitrary files on your iPhone. You setup a web folder on your desktop and just drag and drop files to and from the phone. You can also view the files on your phone.

Heh. Only if it comes with a grief title.   :drill:

Coming Soon....the iGiggle! Heard it on f13 first!

Apple is a grief title.

Apple guy that I am, I'd be happy if Google had something with Sprint right now.

For a variety of reasons Sprint's initial Android phone has been delayed and it might be delayed even further if they decide to wait until their 4G network it is up and running.

Sprint has the best prices if you're still working with a plan from 2001 like I am. But now their network is just too slow and coverage has become a little spotty. I have their HTC Mogul right now and I'm simply not willing to wait for their Android phone. I've been a Sprint customer for over 10 years, they done fucked themselves with lack of great phones and lack of evolution. Next!

If I can email a photo directly from the iPhone, why can't I email a "buy from iTunes" music suggestion right from my iPhone.

That is, listening to a song using the iPod functionality of my iPhone, then touch a button that emails that song info to a buddy.

Shameful.

Edit: Fuck, give me 10c to my iTunes account for each song a buddy buys on my suggestion, and I just made your shit viral.

Only to people like you.  :awesome_for_real:

As much as I love Apple (i mean, i've been a Mac user since the "Centris" days), I'd rather move to less centralized platforms. Especially UNIX and Linux ones -- with the same convenience and commercial polish as Apple. That would be my dream tech. I don't mind a Google universe, if that's the kind of products they'll release.

[edit] I say I'd like "less centralized" and "Google universe" in the same breath, but somehow, that's still a little more open than just Apple. Funny as it sounds.

Isn't that what you get with Apple? I mean outside of their hardware, the software stack is either built on open source (BSD kernel) or has pretty nice, well doc'd APIs. Webkit is open source, as is SproutCore. Hell, even the chess game they ship is GNU Chess with a Apple-y skin. They are managing to be pretty dickish with the App Store, but their computers are pretty open.

Wasn't worth a new thread. I'm considering iPhones for myself and the wife as Christmas gifts (mostly because she has said she's wanted one, oddly enough). The weather snowed me in so far today though so what am I looking at in terms of up-front and monthly costs? Apple doesn't seem to want to give it up until you register for some reason.

Edit: Oh, nevermind, got it from the AT&T site.

Do it from the AT&T site to see the plan prices. Just search on "iPhone" and enter in your ZIP.

Upfront cost is just the cost of the phone.

Edit: plan prices are here actually:

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp

Yea, thanks man. The prices aren't nearly as high as I thought they would be. Good thing. This is the geekiest thing she's ever shown an interest in (yea, my life is hard ;-) ) so I'll be damned if we don't get two...

I pay like 96 bucks a month, the 85 dollar plan + taxes.

Just ordered two on the family plan. Went with the 8gb models since the wife doesn't do movies and I've got another 8gb of movie space on the Touch. Get to pick them up tomorrow.

I love the feeling of getting back to a company that groks end user/customer experience. I never had a problem with phone calls on my Sprint, but doing just about anything else on that phone, on their site, and well, anything that wasn't making a call was a PITA.

Next I'll be buying a Mac, getting some frameless glasses, wearing turtlenecks and going back to graphic design.

Whoa there, don't clump frameless graphics and graphics design in with Apple. Turtlenecks? Ok. Try bottomless ego, air of superiority despite inferior hardware, and audio tools.

You are a Sony supporter.  Apple is to computers what Sony is to videogames.  We iTards should be like your brothers in arms or some shit.

Overpriced hardware, lack of software... yep.  You gots no room to snicker here hoss.

Look dingbat, we'll go over this one more time. I support games. I go where the games I like happen to be. I give praise where it's deserved. My Life as a King was the best experience I've had on the Wii and since then very little has been of any appeal to me at all. I wish Disaster: Day of Crisis had been better received, but what can I do?

The 360 is merely (much like the first xbox) in the unfortunate position of being second to anything already on the PS3 due to the controller (much like the PS2). Though I hate the dpads on both, I hate offset analog sticks even more.

I still own more 360 games than I do PS3 titles, but the highs on the latter (MGS4, Disgaea 3, Uncharted) have been higher than the highs on the 360 (Lost Planet, Dead Rising, Culdcept Saga). And for cross platform games like Gundam Musou, I picked it up for the former, as mentioned.

It's always about games for me, unfortunately Nintendo is now in the shovelware and trash category, perhaps on purpose, or perhaps because the world is poor. In fact, I've played more PC games this gen than all the other systems combined because EVERYONE has too few great titles that take up any time to beat (the majority of great titles have been 10-20 hour games at most with the rare exception like Disgaea 3).

On that note, the PS2 still has the best games in the last 2 years thanks to Persona, FFXII, and Disgaea 2.

While I have played and enjoyed 2 of those games you list there, neither one is REMOTELY best game in the last 2 years.  One is an endless grindathon regardless of what you say, and the other is an RPG where you barely have to pay attention to it while playing.
(Sorta like Dungeon Siege, except with a semi interesting story, and Fran's badonkadonk on full display most of the game. )

I'll bite, what do YOU think are the best games in the last 2 years?

I'd throw out an answer here, but this sort of thing is really better suited to a GOTY 2008 thread.

I was just asking Jain Zar because he's The Overnerd and likely not to be even a little trusted with what is and isn't entertaining.

* eh, nevermind *

I know there are plenty of games I would rate as better.  (I'm pretty sure they are all 07 and 08 titles.)

Fallout 3, Advance Wars Days of Ruin, Dragon Quest 4, FF3 remake, Bionic Commando Rearmed, Pac Man Championship Edition, Guitar Hero World Tour, Forza 2, Dead Rising, Jeanne D Arc, Warhammer 40K Squad Command, Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
Just off the top of my head or quickly flicking through my small compared to Schild game library.

Im not even saying my picks are BEST ever in the last 2 years, but I would say all of the above are better than Dis. 2 and FF12.  Most of the above I actually fucking completed.  (Outside of Forza 2, Jeanne, and GHWT unless 1 instrument tour counts.  And obviously Pac Man is an arcade game and not really completable.)

I'm sure other folks can add in other titles that were better.  I'm pretty sure there are a LOT of them.

'bout time they caught on (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/8-signs-that-ap.html). Melting snowflaked has melted.

Apple users never were unique and special.  For a generation of nerds we all used them in school anyhow.  Shitty, horrible, crappy Apple 2s over god's own 8 bit, the Commodore 64.

Which is what nearly killed Apple.  Being snooty, stuck up, and more about education and smarty man apps is what brought them low.  Entertainment is what saved them.

People aren't really using iPods and iPhones as much more than toys.  And people like those toys so lets look at the big fancypants toys.  (Which actually need more toys on them but that's a given.)

Err, what else would you use an iPod or an iPhone for? They're masterful tools for the two or three things they're intended to do.

I agree they screwed up with the early positioning on the Mac during the days of being all corporate/highbrow, but that's more because of bullshit middlemanagement people who ran process meetings than actually had any ounce of inspiration in them. Some people think inspiration is bottom up. It often is. But if your management is too stupid to recognize it, and then too focused on their own self-worth to let it percolate up and out, then you need to drive that creative inspiration from the top down. Basically, Apple got all corporate stuffed shirt before they had any real right to it.

But what's with the Apple // hate?

It was an overpriced, underpowered hunk of shit?  There is a reason most people only used the things in school, but most home computer owners of the age had cheaper machines like the Atari x00 series, the Commodore 64/128, and the Spectrum in the UK.

They were generally better machines for way less price.  (Some would say Apple can still be guilty of this.  They are not entirely wrong.  But OSX and their hardware design helps a LOT.  Not entirely, but it really does help!)

And then the mighty king of 80s computers, the Amiga arrived which did more than even PCs did for much less money. 

Yet Commodore (US) managed to be even more inept than mid 80-90s Apple and failed with a machine that had no right being anything but the KING of home computers.  1984-85 and we had a machine that was for all intents and purposes a Sega Genesis, which wouldn't show up stateside till 89.  4-5 YEARS ahead of its time, more if you count its video and audio editing, integrated graphical OS, multitasking, and abilities to do some seriously amazing shit. 

Read "On the Edge: The Rise and Fall of Commodore".  It'll break any Commodore nerd's heart to read it.   :heartbreak: :heartbreak: :heartbreak:

No Atari ST love?

The Amiga was a game console, while on the Atari I could emulate PCs and Macs...







... to play PC and Mac games as well.

Definitely agree with you on the pricing of Apple stuff. That's a label that has stuck with them even until now. If it wasn't for people ripping off their ideas, computers would still be $5k. And they'd probably be nothing more than an iPod company if not for OSX. In fact, I'd wager there wouldn't be an iPod without OSX, but that's another topic.

But while I appreciate your Commodore love, there's a long history of how technically better anything doesn't mean a) the consumers understand the benefit of it; nor, b) the company knows how the heck to deliver it.

:oh_i_see:

You aren't a musician, are you?

I can understand why emulating something else would be a priority when using an ST. Shame it wasn't up to the job of emulating an Amiga.

I didn't let myself get baited into those ridiculous flamewars in their heydays, why should I start now?  :-)

I had both computers (my father owned a computer store) and I know what each could do and what software each had available. Most games had both versions and the exclusives almost balanced each other out, slightly favouring the Amiga.

For that Gem was the better OS compared to AmigaOS and you could do more things beside gaming.

What a complete derail. Whats next? Will be compare the Amstrad with its 8bit competitors? Will we cry over the untimely death of the Ti99 and the Acorn Archimedes?  :awesome_for_real:

I drive around a half hour each direction to the nearest Borders every month just to get the newest issue of Retro Gamer.  I'm fucking up for it!

Wow, the hate in that article is delicious. I could eat it with some butter and syrup.

I never was a Mac user for that shit. How silly. I'll still go on using their shit, as far as I can tell. They just offer better products. There was one real lull there, right before Jobs came back in, and OS 8/9 were just way behind on the whole "memory management thing".. heh.. but they've generally been a better product compared to Windows PC's, in my opinion. It was enough to make me exclusively stick around with PC's for awhile there. Now, not only are they a better product than what Microsoft offers, but a better, less headache free UNIX too. No, I don't get to tweak the hardware like a PC, and no, I don't even really get to tweak the software like I would a typical UNIX or UNIX-like system.. but y'know.. I don't even fucking want to in the first place.