Apple announces Apple TV and iPhone

[naum]

I'll be picking an iPhone up as soon as my current contract with Verizon expires.  maybe by then they will have a 32 gig version out?   

Rumor is, at least word that leaked out from AT&T is that 3G model is coming… …though Edge has been fine for the sort of tasks I use when going online (except oddly, in some locales and infrequent intervals where the Edge connectivity seems to slow)…

On iPhone, it is so nice just to slip ONE device into pocket that serves as PDA (missing TODO list but it syncs Calendar entries), phone, iPod, and soon, hopefully can fill the role as DS/PSP killer… …all I really want is a non-jailbreaked e-book reader and for gosh sakes, how about some fscking CUT AND PASTE capability… …but games would be cool too…

On SDK, looks like Apple is going to control but it is still open and the 70/30 split (and the iTunes store will handle all billing chores, but you have to register for $99, which is still cheaper than obtaining your own SSL certificate) looks like it may entice developer interest… …still not as free as in allowing F/OSS DLs from your own site…

[Ookii]

Rumor is, at least word that leaked out from AT&T is that 3G model is coming… …

As soon as it does, I'm totally getting an iPhone.  With the new SDK and all the crap they're adding to it, this phone will quickly take over the world.

Think they'll just announce it in June to coincide with the iPhone's birthday?  I know they released this SDK stuff early, maybe they're saving the newer version as a 'suprise'.

[Viin]

Yah I'm waiting for a 3G version too - though my ATT Tilt works pretty well, except the whole WinMo thing.

Does the iPhone support tethering over Bluetooth?

[Ookii]

You mean DUN? Looks like the iPhone's bluetooth profile only supports hands free stuff.

[naum]

Does the iPhone support tethering over Bluetooth?

No.

Unless hax0red as Bluetooth is supported…

[Viin]

Well screw that piece of crap! 

[Viin]

You mean DUN? Looks like the iPhone's bluetooth profile only supports hands free stuff.

Btw, DUN isn't the same thing as tethering. Tethering assumes you already have a data connection on your phone (ie: EDGE or 3G) and "networks" with your computer to provide a gateway to the data connection (as though you were connected to a router that is connected to the internet). Works pretty good.

DUN is where you use the phone part of your cell phone to dial into a dialup connection, bypassing any blistering network speeds you already get.

I think.

[Venkman]

If they come out with the rumoured 3G version, I'll just carry two bills till my Verizon deal runs out. Unless it comes out soon enough where it'd be cheaper to pay the early termination fee.

Yea, I know, it's stupid to pay that. But come on... 3G open iPhone!

[schild]

an SSL costs less than $14.99... sorry for interrupting. someone back there mentioned them costing more than $99.

[Viin]

3G open iPhone!

Well don't get too excited. It's not actually "open".

a) only 1 third party app can run at a time
b) answering a call closes any 3rd party app (or doing switching to your calendar, etc)
c) third party apps can't use the data connection, only a wifi connection
d) it has to be bought and sold through the itunes store

And I'm sure there's some others. If it was truly open, then I'd be much more excited.

[Engels]

Is flash finally going to work, that's my question.

[Viin]

Last I heard, no Flash. Apple wants Adobe to make a special Flash player just for the iPhone, 'cause apparently FlashLite isn't good enough. We'll see what happens.

[Venkman]

Steve Job's thoughts.

I'm honestly not quite sure what he thinks is missing from Flash Lite though. I don't think there's any max-pixel issue. And it's not like the iPhone has the capacity issues that a mobile does. I wonder if it's more an ego thing, where allowing Flash Lite would mean the iPhone is less unique than phones.

Well don't get too excited. It's not actually "open".

Only "D" talks about it specifically not being open. The others are limitations of the system, but I'm pretty sure that's standard across all mobile sets. At heart, these are still phones first, so the phone function takes precedent over everything. The iPhone tries to integrate things a bit better.

Not using the data connection, while a limitation, also makes sense given the data plans these companies use. The iPhone is relatively pricey enough without overages.

I'm not a raving fanboi. I like the platform, would definitely get a 3G iPhone if it comes out. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than anything else I've used over the decades. Baby steps.

[naum]

an SSL costs less than $14.99... sorry for interrupting. someone back there mentioned them costing more than $99.

Um, no.

Not talking about shared hosting deal — a Verisign certificate (or other CA) and that typically entails a dedicated IP address adds up to more than $14.99… …in the legitimate business world, sorry, but that Dreamhost | GoDaddy | $OtherBulkCheapWebHostCompany is no fly…

On Flash: Flash sucks and has always run even more slowly on OS X… …even on Windows machines its UI can be jerky for applications that require crisp and responsive feedback… …stepping back from WebKit is a de-evolutionary step IMO…

On Single App Attention: not much different than Palm OS, just a realization of the limitation of the platform but I will grant that Apple may still be precarious in its annointed gatekeeper self assignment — it most definitely rules out GPL F/OSS applications. And Apple is going to put the kibosh on anything that reroutes around AT&T (or other telco partners). But, it's not a desktop computer.

We'll see if developers jump aboard… …it hasn't really worked out for iPod game developers… …so we'll see… …haven't had a chance to look at SDK yet (when I tried to DL Thursday night, it was still /.ed…).

[schild]

Godaddy may be a lot of things but illegitimate it ain't. Nice try though.

[Viin]

Not using the data connection, while a limitation, also makes sense given the data plans these companies use. The iPhone is relatively pricey enough without overages.

Except that you are required to have an unlimited data plan when you buy the phone - what overages? Just because ATT doesn't want that much data traffic on their unlimited data plan, doesn't mean I as a consumer should need to consider that.

But you are right, still a sight better than anything else so far.

[Venkman]

Isn't AT&Ts general network sorta crappy? I mean, yea, as a consumer we shouldn't have to care about that. But for the amount of data the iPhone wants to be pushing around, I'm not even sure the bigger networks would agree to it unless they charged even more for the broadband package. Grabbing iPhone movies is a bit more than crappy two-minute phone-screen microshows

[Viin]

Isn't AT&Ts general network sorta crappy?

I don't think their EDGE network is as good as some but their 3G is the best there is in the States. Their voice network (GSM) is OK, but not amazing.

[Venkman]

I just upgraded to 1.1.4 on my iPot Touch. Pre-emptively, as it turns out, because you can't yet actually buy the software developers are making and Apple plans to aggregate through an installer.

Err, yea. In any case, I paid the $20 for the four apps including the Map one. I did so mostly because I didn't believe the Map app could actually fix my current location. So I had to know.

Turns out, it does.

This isn't universal though. For example, on the wifi network at my office, it won't position me. But it will at the local Starbucks (which abut places that provide wifi for free), and it does so at home and at my folks.

Anyone know how a device without bluetooth, GPS and even cell tech can position itself?

[naum]

I just upgraded to 1.1.4 on my iPot Touch. Pre-emptively, as it turns out, because you can't yet actually buy the software developers are making and Apple plans to aggregate through an installer.

Err, yea. In any case, I paid the $20 for the four apps including the Map one. I did so mostly because I didn't believe the Map app could actually fix my current location. So I had to know.

Turns out, it does.

This isn't universal though. For example, on the wifi network at my office, it won't position me. But it will at the local Starbucks (which abut places that provide wifi for free), and it does so at home and at my folks.

Anyone know how a device without bluetooth, GPS and even cell tech can position itself?

Huh. I figured it was cell tower triangulation (and thus far, works well on my iPhone from anywhere (though I haven't been out of state since the feature went live))…

On Edge: is weird that @work and @home (which is irrelevant because it goes to WiFi for mail | web) can be slow, and I don't understand why even on Edge connect, it can take a few seconds for email, that's mainly packets of simple text, to load… …whereas time spent in Prescott AZ, the Edge was loading both mail and web pages in a fairly snappy fashion…

[Viin]

Anyone know how a device without bluetooth, GPS and even cell tech can position itself?

It probably uses a network location map of some sort - a lot of web analytics software does the same thing based on IP address.

Your work probably goes through a vip in some datacenter else where - does it show someplace near corp hq? or nothing at all?

Edit:

Ah hmm. I think it uses this:

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

So ignore what I said above - IP address maps usually aren't any better than major metro area anyways.

[Venkman]

Huh, that Skyhook thing is interesting. Combination of technology and people doing research. Interesting stuff.

@naum: I think the iPhone just triangulates cell towers. But my iPod Touch doesn't talk to cell towers :)

[Prospero]

The iPhone will use whichever is more accurate, Wi-Fi or cell tower triangulation. Hopefully the next vrsion will have GPS support as well so I can find myself in the boonies.

[Venkman]

I'm not really up on this whole spectrum-purchase thing, but apparently Verizon got a huge chunk at $9.6bn. One rule though is they need to open it up to other devices and allow those devices to run any app they want.

iPhone on Verizon by end of year? Or does the rule mitigate the need for the iPhone to be on a Verizon plan?

[Trippy]

Not going to happen unless Apple is willing to cough up a tremendous amount of money to break their exclusviity deal with AT&T.

[Murgos]

Anyone know how a device without bluetooth, GPS and even cell tech can position itself?

It probably uses a network location map of some sort - a lot of web analytics software does the same thing based on IP address.

Your work probably goes through a vip in some datacenter else where - does it show someplace near corp hq? or nothing at all?

Edit:

Ah hmm. I think it uses this:

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

So ignore what I said above - IP address maps usually aren't any better than major metro area anyways.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/press/skyhookapple.php

"BOSTON, MA - January 16, 2008 - Skyhook Wireless, provider of the Wi-Fi Positioning System (WPS), today announced Apple is using its technology for the new Wi-Fi location positioning feature in its Maps application on both iPhone and iPod touch."

So, yeh.

[Sky]

I just upgraded to 1.1.4 on my iPot

AAAWWW HELLS YEAH

 

[Venkman]

Hehe.

Thanks Murgos.

Good point Trippy.

(and all that done without SBing... woot!)

[Venkman]

Didn't see it here yet so posting this for posterity. New 3G iPhone official. $199 and $299 models (8g and 16g), with GPS. Official 2.0 coming, supporting the sale of programs through an on-springboard UI. Some games noted will list for $9.99. In addition to supporting ActiveSync, MobileMe went live so you can sync wirelessly now (instead of having to be tethered), for $99/yr and includes web-based versions of the Mac offline programs.

Downsides include in-store only activation, new and interesting ways of being charged by AT&T, and Apple specifically needing to approve all software loaded onto the device (so don't go forgetting about the jailbreak crowd).

[schild]

AT&T and Jailbreak necessary are killers for me. I don't have a contract with a phone company but I'm not willing to deal with AT&T or Jailbreak. Fuck that.

[Trippy]

I don't understand any of that. Are you on a pay as you go plan now or did already go through your mandatory 2 year contract with whoever? Why is jailbreaking necessary? Is T-Mobile better in your area?

[Trippy]

Didn't see it here yet so posting this for posterity.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13422.0

Dunno why it's in Serious Business, though.

[Oban]

Because it is serious business.

[Venkman]

Geez, was wondering wtf an appgasm was

Off to the other thread then. I'll get you next time Oban! 

[Venkman]

AT&T and Jailbreak necessary are killers for me. I don't have a contract with a phone company but I'm not willing to deal with AT&T or Jailbreak. Fuck that.

AT&T I can see. But Jailbreaking's as easy as buying and patching an MMO. And I mean not-fake easy that non-techs talk about. Visit the right site from your Touch/iPhone and you're good to go.

I won't say everything you can get is actually worth getting though, which is why I'm interested to see what sort of quality standards Apple enforces, or whether it's just a ploy to ensure only "good" partners get in.