Apple announces Apple TV and iPhone

[bhodi]

Jailbreak is different from unlocking, it just allows you to run 'unauthorized' apps or something. I didn't unlock my phone, I'm with AT&T still. As for worrying about jailbreak blowing up something, there are tons of ways to do a full restore straight from itunes.

[Venkman]

I don't watch movies on my iPod, I don't care about photos.  All I care about is audio, and the Zune at least seems capable of that.  Plus, it's way cheaper.

Feh, get a Nano.

[Big Gulp]

Feh, get a Nano.

Can a Nano store a little bit north of 100 gigs of music?

ETA:  Ouch!  Didn't know how limited in space the Zune was.  I guess it doesn't even have that saving grace.

[schild]

[Venkman]

That big? Really?

Can a Nano store a little bit north of 100 gigs of music?

That's what your hard drive is for. You're here at all so definitely at a computer enough to organize and sync more than once a month ;) Do you like insanely unpredictable random playback?

The Zune, yea, stick with the iPod of some form. It does suck that the non-video ones don't have the beaucoup storage of the Video.

[Big Gulp]

Do you like insanely unpredictable random playback?

Why yes, yes I do.

[Trippy]

Jailbreak is different from unlocking, it just allows you to run 'unauthorized' apps or something. I didn't unlock my phone, I'm with AT&T still. As for worrying about jailbreak blowing up something, there are tons of ways to do a full restore straight from itunes.

"Jailbreaking" gives you access to the iPhone's filesystem. That's what allows you to make changes to the iPhone software, install applications, ringtones, wallpapers, etc. Once you have access to the filesystem you go through a separate procedure to actually unlock the phone so that it can use any SIM (there's also a step in-between to activate the phone itself).

As bhodi said there's a procedure for restoring the software, including the firmware, to a "pristine" version so it's difficult to actually "brick" an iPhone.

[Sky]

That's what your hard drive is for. You're here at all so definitely at a computer enough to organize and sync more than once a month ;) Do you like insanely unpredictable random playback?

The Zune, yea, stick with the iPod of some form. It does suck that the non-video ones don't have the beaucoup storage of the Video.

The storage is what makes them large. The advances in capacity have been pretty good, though. 160GB is perfect, imo, finally. My girlfriend got me a 30GB for xmas, which is great, but it can't hold all my music. I mostly took out my metal collection and some of the later discs of multi-disc collections to get it to fit, and I can't put much new stuff I buy on it without taking off other stuff.

I would ideally have all my music on there, yes. Whether I get in the mood for a certain artist, or I'm jamming along on guitar and need something in particular, or another common one is talking about a specific version of a song and playing it to demonstrate the point ("The Allmans are basically doing a straight rip of Taj Mahal's version of Statesboro Blues, here, listen"). Also, we take our ipods when we travel and I want my whole library with me in the car.

And my ipod is not formatted for windows, my home pc crashed a few years ago and I lost the hdd, haven't bothered putting the music back on there yet. I hope someday to get around to buying a fat firewire drive and putting lossless versions of everything on it. But I'd reeeaally like that 160GB ipod...but it's politically infeasible because my fiancee would get pissed as she just got me the 30 last year...

[Trippy]

Discussion of the screen issues on the iPod touch:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=356322
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=355803

Also, no 3G for Euro iPhones (UK launch is in progress right now).

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone

Edit: apparently the iPod touch "shimmering"/"negative black" effect is showing up on some iPhones as well. I guess that's one of the ways Apple managed to cut the price so much, it looks like they switched to a cheaper/lower quality screen.

[Trippy]

I checked out some iPod touches yesterday and one out of the three I looked at had that "negative black" effect though it was hard to see it with all the glare from the overhead lights in the stores so definitely buyer beware if you are thinking of getting one.

[Trippy]

As expected Apple's 1.1.1 iPhone firmware release is disabling unlocked phones. If you have one best to just not update things until the hackers figure out how to restore functionality.

[Viin]

Also looks like you can't buy a new 4GB iPhone anymore .. only the 8GB version is on the new Apple store.


edit: grammar

[Trippy]

They stopped selling those online when the price dropped. You need to check at individual stores to see if they have any left.

[Venkman]

So i gof my grubby hands on an ipod Touch finally. Damned thing is quite impressive. Pretty much a good micro portable for what i need to do and already i'm typing faster than i can evwn on a BlackBerry.

Dunno if jailbreaking used to be complex, but nowadays it's a joke. Stick with firmware 1.1.1 for now, thouh you can patch to 1.1.2. I haven't seen any reason to yet though.

So far all my use has been on posting, some movies and podcasts. On that last bit, i am missing the thumbwheel from my nano. The slider for media playback is pretty small and therefore much less precise.

Some fun games for it too. Favorites so far are Lights Off and Labyrinth.

[Venkman]

Apple just announced new programs for the iPod Touch, but they're really just the ones the iPhone users get by default. I'm posting from my Touch or I'd give a link. It's on the main page.

My question is this: are those available for all users or are they tied to a firmware upgrade (which makes them not worth it for the jailbreak crowd)

Also, in case you hadn't heard, iPhone deb kits available in February. Not sure if it's a full suite of tools, or just sdk documentation. People haven't needed that to make apps, but this move makesit legit, which could mean we don't need to jailbreak anymore, unless Appl continues to keep the file system locked to remain the sole channel of content distribution (in which case I'd just keep using the installer that is part of jailbreak).

[Trippy]

The iPhone apps for the iPod Touch cost $20. Firmware 1.1.3 is required as well.

[naum]

The iPhone apps for the iPod Touch cost $20. Firmware 1.1.3 is required as well.

Free for the iPhone though.

Not much too them. Though the pseduo-GPS is pretty cool - will draw a circle where you are and you can do directions from Google Maps. Very nice.

Can mess with your home icons and create multiple pages. Create icons for web page links. People going crazy with photo links, custom redirects (like creating your own F13 57x57 png and then redirecting to f13.net…)

On the other stuff…

* Mac Book Air — sweet looking, but no ethernet port, no firewire, no optical drive… …and an extra $1,500 for a smaller SSD drive (80G v. 64G)

* iTunes Rentals - meh, 2.99 for movies, 3.99 for new releases, 4.99 for HD, but 30 days after DVD release and while you get 30 days to play, only 24 hours once you hit play button… …bleh, NetFlix better deal or going to Hollywood video where you get the stupid DVD for 5 days for the same price… …downloaded bits should be at least 50% cheaper if not a 1/3 or less of physical item cost…

* Apple TV 2.0 - better, but if it can be totally separate from computer, than it needs some sort of browser so you can fetch videos from podcasts or other repositories…

[Trippy]

The iPhone apps for the iPod Touch cost $20. Firmware 1.1.3 is required as well.

Free for the iPhone though.

The iPhone already comes with the new iPod Touch apps

The stuff you are talking about is the 1.1.3 firmware update which both devices get for free.

[Venkman]

That thin Macbook is interesting, particularly with the mulit-touch (should really call it double-touch) trackpad element. However, the rest of it, yea, if I was a complete Machead with a Mac home computer and iTV to go with my iPod Nano that was replaced by my iPod Touch, that stuff would be interesting. Otherwise, there's just too many ways to get movies to care about a service that doesn't nearly have enough of them (imho).

Thanks for the prices Trippy. Forgot about that part. That is a stupid move in my opinion. All those apps together aren't worth 20 bucks. I already have most of them just by using the iGoogle I've been using for free anyway. Charge for Web 2.0 applets ftl.

So really, no need to upgrade to Firmware 1.1.3. Every day I'm glad I didn't get the iPhone... so when my tinkering bricks this one, I can just reset it and still make phone calls :)

[Trippy]

That thin Macbook is interesting, particularly with the mulit-touch (should really call it double-touch) trackpad element.

No, it really is "multi-touch". E.g. it can distinguish between two fingers down and three fingers down.

[Venkman]

You sure? Unless the tech in the Thin is different, the only thing my Touch does with three fingers is bounce back and forth between the inputs of the second and third finger

Really need an app that tests that maybe.

[Trippy]

It's in the MacBook Air intro video. Three fingers swiping right or left are used to activate Forward or Back in your browser.

[Tebonas]

There seems to be a bit of confusion here. You can upgrade to 1.1.3 for free, only the apps cost 20 Dollars (which of course because Apple are assholes is 18 Euros since exchange rates are for suckers obviously).

And they are free in the new (cheaper) ipod touches, which makes me a sucker twice over having bought my touch last month.

[Venkman]

I've been curious on how well the iPod Touch was going to do vs the iPhone vs the new Nano. This move (charging existing customers, free for new ones) seems to indicate it didn't sell as many as they would have liked. They're trying to remove some of the capricious gimpyness they had in order to not "confuse" people about it versus (read: drive people to) the iPhone.

@Trippy: I'm trying to find a program to run on my Touch to prove this out. But using three fingers to do the job of single finger can do isn't multi-touch. I'll feel better if three (or more) fingers can be on the Touch (and therefore theoretically the Thin trackpad) drawing three different lines concurrently. It's not a big deal of course, I'm just wildly curious because of the emergence of truly multitouch devices, like MS Surface (51 simultaneous inputs) and a few others (HP, Mitsubishi, etc).

[Trippy]

I've been curious on how well the iPod Touch was going to do vs the iPhone vs the new Nano. This move (charging existing customers, free for new ones) seems to indicate it didn't sell as many as they would have liked. They're trying to remove some of the capricious gimpyness they had in order to not "confuse" people about it versus (read: drive people to) the iPhone.

If that's the case they should've just given the apps away rather than make you buy them.

@Trippy: I'm trying to find a program to run on my Touch to prove this out. But using three fingers to do the job of single finger can do isn't multi-touch.

No, because one finger swiping left or right in a browser scrolls the viewpane left or right and two fingers is used for the "pinch" move. If you have an issue with this take it up with Apple, I'm just repeating what they are saying.

[naum]

@Trippy: I'm trying to find a program to run on my Touch to prove this out. But using three fingers to do the job of single finger can do isn't multi-touch. I'll feel better if three (or more) fingers can be on the Touch (and therefore theoretically the Thin trackpad) drawing three different lines concurrently. It's not a big deal of course, I'm just wildly curious because of the emergence of truly multitouch devices, like MS Surface (51 simultaneous inputs) and a few others (HP, Mitsubishi, etc).

The multi-touch on the Mac Book Air is on the track pad or multi-touch pad where you three fingers can be used to resize windows, etc.… …thing "gestures"…

The iPhone (and iPod touch) is touch screen where I don't think "gestures" is the idea — more flipping screens left or right, double one finger tap to zoom, two finger tap to zoom out, pinch in/out to zoom in/out… …nothing complex, but intuitive to the point you don't think about it, it's most natural UI…

…which is why I was so disappointed that they didn't trot out some sort of Mac Tablet deal — like between size of iPhone and MacBook, all touch screen, something you could couple up with bluetooth earphone/mic and have phone | ipod | browser | mini-computer | video player… …no keyboard, just iPhone style imposed… …would be incredible gaming machine too, blowing away PSP and DS…

[Venkman]

Ok, finally got a chance to watch the video. Man it's sucked not having a good connection for the last few days.

I don't have an "issue" with what they're saying. I'm curious, not emotionally invested. Multitouch is at a stage right now where the first-to-market gets to define what it means for consumers. But having had a hands-on with Surface, I have my own view of what mulittouch is.

If Apple can show moving a photo to the left with one finger while rotating it with two other fingers at the same time, I'll change my opinion It's still cool with what's there.

…which is why I was so disappointed that they didn't trot out some sort of Mac Tablet deal

I am with you there. A 13.1" screen with iPhone tech would be fantastic. The current tablet PCs are cool enough by themselves, but an oversized iPhone would be what I replace my Touch with.

[naum]

I am with you there. A 13.1" screen with iPhone tech would be fantastic. The current tablet PCs are cool enough by themselves, but an oversized iPhone would be what I replace my Touch with.

Nah, <= 12 inches, and preferably 7-9 inch range (like Day Planner size or less). Something you could stick in your jacket pocket or in backpack (or case)…

[Venkman]

Question on Firmware 1.1.3 for anyone:

As mentioned, $20 will also get you the little foozles that come free on new devices (and always were on the iPhone). None of those programs interest me, though there is something nice about being able to customize the springboard. I get all of that from having Jailbreak'd.

However, the one thing that would make me upgrade is the ability to play rented movies. Right now (with Firmware 1.1.1 Jailbroken), I can only play movies I rented on iTunes through iTunes itself.

[naum]

Question on Firmware 1.1.3 for anyone:

As mentioned, $20 will also get you the little foozles that come free on new devices (and always were on the iPhone). None of those programs interest me, though there is something nice about being able to customize the springboard. I get all of that from having Jailbreak'd.

However, the one thing that would make me upgrade is the ability to play rented movies. Right now (with Firmware 1.1.1 Jailbroken), I can only play movies I rented on iTunes through iTunes itself.

Haven't tried renting a movie from iTunes store on 1.1.3 yet…

Thought about getting an Apple TV post v2 release, but this type of thing dissuaded me:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/9469

[Venkman]

SDK is announced. You can watch the whole Town Hall presentation here. Info announced includes:

• App Store: buy or get free programs through an App on iPhone and iPod Touch. Like Installer for the Jailbreak crowd, but it looks nicer.
• As usual, every program developed for one will work on the other (except those requiring cellphone and bluetooth of course)
• Developers get 70% of the revenue generated from a purchased, paid monthly
• Enterprise solutions. I'm sure there's others, but the one that stuck out for me was Exchange Server. Wootzorz. Won't need that Blackberry now.
• Free update (2.0) for iPhone, fee-based update for iPod Touch (like 1.4). While I might grouse as a user, it makes sense financially.
• Already being supported by companies, as shown in that video.

I'm excited. And I hope this kicks iPhone sales into high gear again. We need to open the mobile platform up in general in the U.S. rather than it continuing to be locked behind the inconsistent middle management of the carriers.

[Prospero]

I'm not sure if having everything locked up with Apple is that much better, but it's a start. The SDK does look pretty damn solid though; I was certain they would release an overly restricted version, but it sounds like a nice open API. As long as getting apps into the store isn't too hard, I think they have something here.

I'm jazzed about Spore on the iPhone. The game looked pretty damn sharp on it. I <3 my DS, but I wouldn't mind having some real games on the iPhone too.

[Venkman]

I'm friggin Batman at this point when I fly: DS, PSP, iPod Touch. It's to the point I just use the laptop to leech power for iPod if I need it.

Competition and all that.

[Sky]

I was thinking about a utility belt when I left for work this morning. I had my ipod, my digital camera and my cell phone. Pretty standard stuff, but 3 years ago I didn't have any gadgets. They were all gifts, heh. Some tech guy I am.

[Murgos]

I'll be picking an iPhone up as soon as my current contract with Verizon expires.  maybe by then they will have a 32 gig version out?