Have we talked about Dark Wind yet?

[Modern Angel]

http://www.dark-wind.com/

It's online and has aspirations for a type of persistance. It's Garage Games related and (oh god most importantly) it's motherfucking turn based Car Wars.

So far, I like it. The chance of death needs to be toned down and the current "twenty bucks for three months of the whole game" needs to stay that way instead of be just a pre-order price but it's not too shabby so far. Oh, and the documentation sort of completely blows.

[Murgos]

Gas jokes incoming in 4... 3... 2...

[Reg]

Oh good. So I'm not the only one who saw the games name and immediately thought of farts.

[Modern Angel]

That's a good sign, then. You obviously want people thinking of farts when they look your game up.

They really should have called it Car Wars but it was taken.

[Falconeer]

This could be one of my cheap dreams came true. I am farting in anticipation while downloading...

[Etro]

so are you all revved up to give this game a test drive? 

[Falconeer]

It's official. It ROCKS!  (Yeah I played it for the last two hours and I am about to start my second deathrace with an awesomely earned 2nd row starting position).

EDIT: Seriously, you all join. It's huge. As soon as you settle yourself with the UI and the event listing, it's SO on!

[Modern Angel]

There are a few caveats here that I've heard from a friend of mine who used to be pretty into it. One is that the lead developer is apparently borderline insane about not telling people how the game works. It makes for really poor documentation which really stings later in the game (from what I hear). Second is that the community supposedly is pretty bad but, hey, I played Guild Wars so I bet I can manage. Third is that the penalties for death are harsh from what I can tell; a guy dies and you're out of commission for three days or so.

[Falconeer]

The community part sounds weird to me, as my 4 hours experience has been great EVEN thanks to the people there, very helpful, chatty and entertaining.
I think this game is seriously great. I had a few races, loved it and subscribed right away for 3 months. I am seriously impressed, and yeah it's Car Wars but better. Definitely a 80s dream came true.
The fun part is that I spent 4 hours racing and machinegunning other drivers and having hella fun, and when I was about to logoff and go to sleep I checked the website documentation and the forum and found out there are tons of things more to do over just driving, like exploring the wilderness, looting, managing pilots, resources, traveling... I am seriously impressed and my money are there to prove that.

Angel, what's your name there (Falconeer is mine and Evaporate is my team)? We should make a Gang alliance under the Bat Country banner or simply meet at Somerset Gate and beat the hell out of each other's pilots.

By the way, hank you for showing me this, you can't understand how glad I am.

[Slayerik]

The community part sounds weird to me, as my 4 hours experience has been great EVEN thanks to the people there, very helpful, chatty and entertaining.
I think this game is seriously great. I had a few races, loved it and subscribed right away for 3 months. I am seriously impressed, and yeah it's Car Wars but better. Definitely a 80s dream came true.
The fun part is that I spent 4 hours racing and machinegunning other drivers and having hella fun, and when I was about to logoff and go to sleep I checked the website documentation and the forum and found out there are tons of things more to do over just driving, like exploring the wilderness, looting, managing pilots, resources, traveling... I am seriously impressed and my money are there to prove that.

Angel, what's your name there (Falconeer is mine and Evaporate is my team)? We should make a Gang alliance under the Bat Country banner or simply meet at Somerset Gate and beat the hell out of each other's pilots.

By the way, hank you for showing me this, you can't understand how glad I am.

Man, I was going to try this right up till Falconeer started singing praises for it (Gotta poke some fun at you after the Vanguard thang). Naa, I'll probably check it out soon and look ya up :)

[Modern Angel]

I am (oddly enough) Modern Angel and my team name is Mindphaser. I'm currently really, terribly awful at this game but still enjoying it. I've not subscribed... yet. I expect I'll break down by the end of the day.

I'm surprised Stephen Zepp hasn't talked this game up over here given the hue and cry over Auto Assault not being Car Wars enough.

[Viin]

I played the tutorial last night, it seemed pretty fun but I couldn't figure out how to do anything other than drive (how do you shoot?).

I'll try a real match tonight.

I'm also waiting for something to let me change the temporary password they sent me .. lame!

Name: Viin
Team: Diesels

[Modern Angel]

To change your password log in and go to My Gang. There should be an option to change your password on one of your headings.

To shoot you have to go to manage on your steering wheel tab and assign a gunner (so if you have one dude in your car pulling double duty and want to switch you have to micromanage a bit). Once you have one assigned you right click your target, spend one turn targetting and then let fly.

[Falconeer]

I just watched you blow up in the Combat League, Angel  :-D

This thing is blowing me away.

Yeah Viin, it's not very intuitive and the tutorial needs work (especially if they want to cater up some more money and attention. But eventually you'll find out and then it'll be war! (I am wondering if we should ally our gangs or just wage war to each other).

[Modern Angel]

That was my first combat arena and it's pretty rough. I did a little better toward the end but my one guy got taken down fast. I at least tasted sweet, sweet revenge on the guy who thought it'd be cute to lose a deathrace yesterday by placing last and blowing my cars up.

I ended up plopping down my twenty bucks for three months since that's half as much as games that hold my interest for half as long. Worth the investment, I think. I'd love to see Stephen drop by and give us some scuttlebutt on the inner workings of the project.

[Xilren's Twin]

Interesting tidbits from their site...

The real-world time scale means that you can only conduct a limited amount of gameplay each week. This makes Darkwind uniquely suitable for people who like competitive online games but don't have 15 hours per day to devote to them. Just 3 or 4 hours of gameplay per week is sufficient for competitive play. Character development is based around real world training time, not in-game macro-ing.
 
The long term gameplay ethos is further enhanced by the fact that it takes real-world time to carry out travel and activities. It typically takes several days to travel between towns - this makes trade a meaningful activity that takes some effort. The detailed and finely tuned economic model has long-term cycles based on population, demand, and piracy. Strategic gameplay is promoted. Building camps and fortifications, healing wounds, fixing and upgrading vehicles all take real-world time to complete.

Much of the strategic gameplay consists of offline planning - since you have enough time to consider and reconsider your actions. Players continually think about and revise their strategies while going about their everyday lives. This 'offline' nature, paradoxically, makes the game a more immersive experience rather than less.
 
The turn-based combat system based on highly detailed rules promotes genuine strategy of play, and doesn't degrade into a 'fastest mouse clicker' competition unlike many RTS games. The combat system in Darkwind suits 'multi-tasking' players who may get interrupted while playing. You can turn your attention away and not expect to get slaughtered for it. Time-outs further enhance this concept.

Death is more than a minor inconvenience - when a character dies, they're dead. Permanently. We believe that many current online roleplaying games are ruined by the fact that death is merely a temporary setback for a character. In Darkwind, since you control a gang of characters, you can still maintain your assets when a character dies, but you will lose the months/years of skills and experience that they have. With death being permanent, a new dynamic is created, whereby courage becomes a true, and probably rare, asset. Play strategy and political intrigue take on a deadly new importance.
 
Scheduling of PvP battles and Autoduel events - further enhancing the concept of the 'lifestyle-friendly' competitive RPG. You can sign up for autoduel leagues that suit your schedule, and your PvP battles are conducted at mutually acceptable times. Since they are scheduled, battles and autoduel events can be spectated by other players.
 
Persistent NPC gangs with colourful backgrounds whose skills develop in the same way as player characters. These gangs are controlled at various times by AI or by gamemasters (GMs).

Anytime strategic play - you can log into Darkwind anyime during a journey, which may mean anytime within a period of several days, whenever it suits you. You play out your battles and wilderness encounters with NPC gangs when it suits you.

I'll have to check it out.  Love me some Car Wars.

Though from the screenies, Dark Wind should be called, "Yet More Brown" Wind.

[Falconeer]

Though from the screenies, Dark Wind should be called, "Yet More Brown" Wind.

It's the Wasteland baby. What did you expect, neon knights? (they are in Auto Assault by the way)

[Viin]

Well played a bit more tonight, it was pretty fun once I figured out how to get the guns to work.

I was doing a deathrace, doing well in 5th place, when someone shot my engine out. Crap. I was literally 3 (game) seconds from the finish line when my POS stopped in the middle of the track. Grrr.

I like it, but it seems pretty slow. Maybe they should bump it up to 2 seconds a turn instead of 1 - if 1 lap takes 10 minutes that's forever!

[Falconeer]

While we are waiting for Stephen Zepp to show up and tell us the story behind this gem, I just found out some info about the lead designer/programmer of Dark Wind, an Irish smart guy called Sam Redfern.

[Modern Angel]

My guys are currently in the hospital. :(

[Falconeer]

Heh, I had a higly dramatic deathrace yesterday. I was second and third in the first lap (thanks to a perfect trajectory) after starting last, and managed to do very good. Sadly, behing ahead it's not that good when you have no minedropper and everyone who follows has front-mounted heavy machineguns. My lead-driver rear armour got destroyed in lap two and when the co-driver knee exploded by shrapnels I resigned her. My first car was still just behind the race leader and doing very good when the whole pack targeted me and managed to hurt my men so bad that I had to resign mere seconds before the heavy bleeding killed 'em. Now my favourite gunner has a stump in the place of his left leg and my other driver has lost an ear. Forced hospitalization for days (to the point I won't be able to sign up two cars in a race for a few days, lacking the people to form 2 full manned cars).

The race was brutal. Only 6 crossed the finish line of the 16 starters. Once again, it's a very good game, and the emotional relationship it lets you develop for your men and women is definitely something. And yes, as Sam itself pointed out in the above description of the game features, perma-death is definitely the winning move (for this game).

Death is more than a minor inconvenience - when a character dies, they're dead. Permanently. We believe that many current online roleplaying games are ruined by the fact that death is merely a temporary setback for a character.

I managed to gather enough money to order and assemble my first car, and do a suicidal trip to the next city. I think it will die, but I had to experiment with travel. Hope my scapegoat driver won't hold a grudge against me.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah, I don't mind it a bit. It's no different than Necromunda or Mordheim or (of course) Car Wars. It's essentially a wargame come to life with all of the quirks that entails.

I am curious as to what happens if your whole team dies and you're broke? Cancel your subscription? Get one new guy and hit the racing circuit?

[squirrel]

Gonna try this out tonight - props to the devs for releasing Win, OS X and Linux clients. Choice is good.

[Falconeer]

Hey Squirrel if you see me up there throw me a /whisper. I am sure you can figure it all out on your own but it'll be easier with some help. Took me three days to get (almost) all what's needed to know.

[Der Helm]

Sounds interesting and the driving school looks like fun.

But the game itself won't let me play. When I start the game and log in, I enter the lobby and that is as far as I get. "My Crew", "Town" and all the other buttons do nothing for me. What SHOULD happen when I click on them. If it opens a browser window I would think some obscure Popup-Blocker is at work.

[Falconeer]

it did that to me too twice. Just close the lobby and restart, or try again later. Yes, they should open a browser window, but as I said it happened to me and then it got fixed by itself, so try again.

[Falconeer]

Anyway, driving school is NOTHING compared to a deathrace. It's hard to believe that a turn based game could be so adrenalinic. Plus, the roleplay part is very well developed. The boards are full of backstories and and topic about dead characters, while in game, during the usual carnage, you'll find yourself really attached to the fragile lives of your characters.

It adds to the whole that the developers are often in the lobby exchanging tips and suggestions with the players, and it adds even more that they have topics in the boards letting players name NPC gangs. The only real turndown of the game is that lots of cool features will be implemented in the future and are not active yet, but I guess you have to cut some slack to a team of just two developers (and well, UI is close to non-existant. This game will SO benefit of a standalone client including the managerial part which is now browser based).
The community is extremely mature and helpful, although small sized. Another nice thing to have.

The game shares a lot with EVE online (you know, with just about 200 developers less...), (building ships/cars, dynamic economy, offline advancement, real time travel and lots more...) to the point that I think CCP could get an incredible game from this. But the combat part, believe it or, is potentially better as movement is more important here than in EVE.
To me, and that says a lot, combat is more addictive in DW than in EVE. And as far as I know characters on foot will be in Dark Wind before EVE (a few months according to Sam), with the meaningful difference that they'll be able to wield handguns and shoot at incoming vehicles or even swing fists at other pedestrians. Sweet.

Oh, just remembered. To answer an earlier question, if all your characters die and you don't have money to hire new ones, you'll get a free new guy every 5 days. Yes, that means if you are unlucky enough, and you are not the beggar type, you could have to wait 5 days before being able to join a race again.

[Stephen Zepp]

Honestly, I've been so busy I didn't even know this was out--we have so many projects using Torque it's hard to keep track of them, so sorry for not letting you guys know in advance.

I'll make sure to get the comments passed back to the developer, I'm sure he'll be interested!

[Modern Angel]

Honestly, I've been so busy I didn't even know this was out--we have so many projects using Torque it's hard to keep track of them, so sorry for not letting you guys know in advance.

I'll make sure to get the comments passed back to the developer, I'm sure he'll be interested!

If you have any sway whatsoever tell them to emphatically NOT increase the sub price. 20 bucks for three months in a game that forces some downtime if you get a bad string of events shouldn't be 10-15 a month.

I actually placed 1-2 in an arena combat match yesterday and it was awesome. Made enough money to recoup my deaths. :)

[Falconeer]

My favourite driver died yesterday. I was so stupid to sign her up in a race with every car sporting a front mounted micro-missile and without any kind of rear-mounted weapon to portect your ass. And I had the insane idea to get the pole position and a flashing lead start. As soon as the shooting started, I had 13 following cars targeting her. She never had a chance. I virtually killed her myself. Meh :(

[Furiously]

I virtually killed her myself. Meh :(

Yes - you certainly did.

[Engels]

A turn based driving game? Are you people serious? I downloaded the client, and played it for about 2 minutes before realising that I was entering the land of bird watchers and the National Paint Dehumidification Surveillance Association.

[Modern Angel]

A turn based driving game? Are you people serious? I downloaded the client, and played it for about 2 minutes before realising that I was entering the land of bird watchers and the National Paint Dehumidification Surveillance Association.

please breathe on a mirror to prove you have a soul

[Falconeer]

A turn based driving game? Are you people serious? I downloaded the client, and played it for about 2 minutes before realising that I was entering the land of bird watchers and the National Paint Dehumidification Surveillance Association.

It's a turn based racing/destruction game. It is the digital version of a glorious boardgame by the name of Car Wars and use mechanics found in boardgames the like of Blue Max, Formula Dé and lots more.
If you don't like boardgames or PnP RPGs then you won't like, that's a given. If you consider tabletop boardgaming like bird watching, then I see your point.

Actually, this game and the use it makes of physics and a 3D engine is the proof that you can turn-base everything, with excellent results.

[Hoax]

Sounds interesting I'll have to check it out sometime this weekend.

Also feel free to completely ignore Engels, he has no fucking taste whatsoever.

Exhibit A:

To each his own. Wolf heads aside, the detail on many of Vanguard's art is stellar, imho. An industry first in many instances, from what I can see. Warhammer's art is the same fisherprice regurgitated codswaddle WoW offers the kiddies. You're welcome to it.

That said, the basic premise of the argument, that you don't need reams of polies to make good art, stands.