Bethesda gets Fallout

[Shrike]

This FPS stuff combined with action points confuses me. Leave the FPS crap with Quake et al, and stick with what works for Fallout: turn based combat.

That being said...is there Psycho? There'd better damned well be Psycho. In Fallout when the going gets tough, the tough get Psycho. And the fur (among other things) hits the wall. I went through most of the end of Fallout totally juiced on Psycho. It was...glorious. And messy.

[WindupAtheist]

I'll remember that twitch combat makes a game automatically not an RPG, next time I'm circle-strafing some boss and pew-pewing him to death with spells in an Elder Scrolls game.

[Murgos]

I'll remember that twitch combat makes a game automatically not an RPG, next time I'm circle-strafing some boss and pew-pewing him to death with spells in an Elder Scrolls game.

Right, go back to trolling Morrowinds mechanics in that other thread.  You've swirled your dick around enough in this one already.

[Calantus]

I'll remember that twitch combat makes a game automatically not an RPG, next time I'm circle-strafing some boss and pew-pewing him to death with spells in an Elder Scrolls game.

I never said it makes it not an RPG, I said it wasn't part of the RPG framework. Adding this and that doesn't make something not from an RPG, but it's still just something extra added onto the RPG framework, not something you use to define RPGs.

[Furiously]

Wow, my 'This Game Will Suck Balls'-sense is tingling.

Do you get that in your testicles?

[Wolf]

Do you know what's sad? Stalker is more Fallout, than Fallout 3 would be :(

[Ironwood]

Wow, my 'This Game Will Suck Balls'-sense is tingling.

Do you get that in your testicles?

Yup, it's a contraction of the scrotal sac, as if a thousand fan bois got punched in the nuts and were suddenly silenced.

[Yegolev]

I have considered the combat description for an entire ten minutes and have realized what Bethesda is trying to say:

It's real-time *slap* it's turn-based *slap* it's real-time *slap* it's turn-based... *crying* it's real-time and turn-based... *more sobs*.

[Big Gulp]

I don't really see the problem here.  It's Oblivion's game engine with a tacked on Max Payneish sort of toggleable combat mode that can only be used once in a while.  You can fight in real time, but if you want to go more tactical you can go this route.

I don't have a problem with it, as long as it's done well.

[Engels]

Well, that's where the doubts arise. It seems a hard system to pull off.

[Megrim]

I don't really see the problem here.  It's Oblivion's game engine with a tacked on Max Payneish sort of toggleable combat mode that can only be used once in a while.  You can fight in real time, but if you want to go more tactical you can go this route.

I don't have a problem with it, as long as it's done well.

I'm just having a hard time picturing how an fps/turn-based hydrid is not going to be really jarring when played in fps. You are sitting there, staring at a screen with the gameplay moving at a typical turn-based pace? Oh lawd...

[Sky]

Well..KotOR showed it could be done, since KotOR is basically Baldur's Gate really zoomed in. I played both very TBSishly, pausing like mad to micromanage everyone's queue. So I could see it taking the next step and being full-on turn-based. It could be really cool with the pauses, I always liked how bodies froze in mid-air, particle effects frozen, etc. Imagine how cool it would be with a decapitated head bouncing along incrementally as the turns played out...

I think the problem will arise trying to appease the fps people without turn-based combat. It's simply not that kind of game, and shouldn't be.

Iirc, Tactics was also playable in real-time. Did anyone actually play that way? The game didn't seem to lend itself to real-time gameplay.

[Megrim]

Now that you mention is, if it's anything like KotOR it might work quite well. I had initially thought it sounded something like the Infinity Engine pseudo-realtime/turn-based thing, so i'm hoping it ends up more like that. As long as they give a tickable option to pause every 'round' or whatever, i'll be happy.

[Shrike]

I remember Tactics. I tried it in realtime and found it...difficult. So I stuck with turn-based.

However.

We'll take the wayback machine to Xcom3 and we'll talk realtime. I initially played this game mostly turn-based. Some weapons and tactics did not work well in turn-based. The headcrab thingies were very difficult to deal with in turn-based mode. However, it was very easy to raid opposing (or even allied...) factions for loot in turn-based (your agents didn't blow the living piss out of everything). Alien search-and-destroy missions were better in realtime, though. Sniper tactics became viable. Fields of fire and control became possible (headcrabs...). The toxiguns were far, far better in realtime than in turn-based (your best weapons against aliens). The main downside was trigger-happy agents with explosive weapons. Had to watch anyone with a rocket launcher VERY closely.

We'll just have to see how Fallout 3 pans out. The realtime thing makes me nervous. I'd rather have a very fancy isometric 3D turn-based game. RPG elements should be paramount in a game that always stressed the story. Combat should be fun, but can be anything IF they get the story right--I'm thinking System Shock 2 here.

[lesion]

Tactics' "continuous turn-based" thing felt tacked-on for twitchy mctwitchersons that put aggressive AI on and just waddled around with a gigantic machinegun (tactics? my tactics are to MURDALIZE YOU). it was pretty broken, or I just sucked at murdalizing.

I actually look forward to a first-person Fallout. I liked the atmosphere of C&C Renegade's viewpoint switcheroo and I loved the Journeyman Project games (which is close to turn-based first-person). to me it feels more RPG-ish, like "oh shit I just fell in a pit of spikes" rather than "oh shit my avatar just fell in a pit of spikes". yeah hew.

[Yegolev]

For the record, I do not consider KotOR to be real-time, it just looks like it is to the untrained eye.  I am not sure what my position on that was a few months ago but right now this is what I think and I will deny any accusations otherwise.  That said, if Fallout 3 has "pausable realtime" as in KotOR rather than some Max Payne bullshit, that would be fine I suppose.  Since it would be really turn-based but dressed up in real-time clothes.  I also invoke Big Gulp's last comment.

twitchy mctwitchersons

Hehe.  I agree on Tactics.

I played X-COM 3 in turn-based mode.  Real-time was too wacky.

[Strazos]

I could deal with a KotOR system, because deep down, that's actually a turn-based system; you just don't have to pause every turn, if you don't want to.

[Teleku]

The problem is, from what I am reading, its not going to be pauseable like KoTOR or Baulders Gate.  It looks like it is going the Max Payne route of running around shooting things, then going into a freeze frame mode that lets you use your AP`s when you want.  Once those are gone, you are stuck in real time mode untill your AP`s regenerate and you can use them again.

That`s at least how I`m reading it.  More clarification and an actual fucking video of gameplay would be nice at this point to help clear up the shit storm.

[NowhereMan]

I've got the impression that they're trying to make it more of a choice to play through turn based or real-time or a mixture.

That is, you could use it bullet time style, hitting it every now and again when your APs regenerate and then back to real time or you can play turn based. From the sounds of it if you choose to just let the enemy have their "turn" your APs come back and you do things all turn based. The fact that they return slowly if you're in real time sounds like you have the bullet time style option or can do full turn based.

The problem comes in balancing it somewhat, if bullet time style is hands down a more efficient and better way of fighting than doing it turn based that play style becomes a handicap rather than a real option. Hence I think it's a compromise that is just going to result in pissing people off because the ones who like the system that works won't even pay attention to the other choices and the ones who like the one that doesn't are going to be resentful that their option sucks monkey ball in comarison.

[Murgos]

Mass effect is also going for a real time drops into turn based when you want sort of approach.  The videos for that seem fairly natural and intuitive.

Personally, I would rather see a real time for world travel and interactions and forced turn based for combat myself.  I just prefer the strategic feel of a turn based combat system as I think it rewards cleverness and understanding of the games systems to a greater degree than real time combat.

Also, I find most real time style combat systems too easy in general.

[Ironwood]

Doesn't anyone remember X-Com Apocalypse ??

Think of the children - don't merge RT and TB Combat.

[Yegolev]

Personally, I would rather see a real time for world travel and interactions and forced turn based for combat myself.

You mean like Fallout and Fallout 2?  I agree with you.  Also Ironwood when he talks about a game with real-time and turn-based combat glommed together in a futuristic game with 1950's styling.  Parallels!

Still, I'm going to reserve the harsh judgement until I see real gameplay.

[Shrike]

Xcom3 wasn't that bad. Granted, it was kinda weird, but it actually worked OK. You just had to choose the right way to approach specific situations.

Having said that, I wouldn't have missed the realtime combat if it hadn't been there.

[CmdrSlack]

I just finally started in on Fallout Tactics this morning while drinking coffee.  It seems to have a realtime/turn-based setup.

If combat in Fallout 3 is like that, I can deal with that.  For those who haven't played, there are various settings for combat, but you can set it so that most stuff takes place in real-time, then drops to turn based once you are spotted by an enemy. You can also play entirely in real-time and you'll see your AP go down and then slowly recharge.

[Strazos]

I'm not liking how people are likening this system to Max Payne, because the Max Payne series was actually good, and the combat was awesome.

[Teleku]

I just finally started in on Fallout Tactics this morning while drinking coffee.  It seems to have a realtime/turn-based setup.

If combat in Fallout 3 is like that, I can deal with that.  For those who haven't played, there are various settings for combat, but you can set it so that most stuff takes place in real-time, then drops to turn based once you are spotted by an enemy. You can also play entirely in real-time and you'll see your AP go down and then slowly recharge.

I loved Fallout Tactics, but I left it on the full turnbased mode (like the originals) the whole way through, so I never saw that system.  As I understand it, most people thought that system sucked though.

I'm not liking how people are likening this system to Max Payne, because the Max Payne series was actually good, and the combat was awesome.

I got bored of Max Payne after the first level.  It was just........really really meh.  Big let down.  Didn`t even want to try #2 after that, though I heard some better things about it.

[Ironwood]

I loved me some Max Payne. 

And you can't beat Max Payne 2 for an example of what a Sequel should be.

Also, Mona Sax.  Gotta love some Kathy Tong.

[Yegolev]

I'm not liking how people are likening this system to Max Payne, because the Max Payne series was actually good, and the combat was awesome.

I am only complaining because if it turns out to be Max Payne with a post-nuclear theme, it won't be Fallout.  Don't promise me Fallout and give me Max Payne, that's not right.

Also, big minuses to Max Payne for the blood-trail-with-crying-baby level.  Almost made me hate the game completely, but thankfully its only competition at the time was Munch's Oddysee and Azurik.

[murdoc]

IGN has a 4 page preview on Fallout 3.

I'll let you read the gory details and comment: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800872p1.html

I can't say much since I haven't played the first two :(

[Riggswolfe]

The preview sounds nice, though I'm amused that even in video games Liam Neeson is a mentor figure.

[rk47]

IGN has a 4 page preview on Fallout 3.

I'll let you read the gory details and comment: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800872p1.html

I can't say much since I haven't played the first two :(

why don't you pick it up then and give it a try?

[murdoc]

why don't you pick it up then and give it a try?

I'm working on it!

[Yegolev]

rk47, that was funny.  Now I want to play again, again, just to try that.  I mostly went with PE/AG10 and rifles... and Bloody Mess.  Never got into the melee.

[lesion]

I hate to say it but I am hyped-up for this like a giraffe on coke

[rk47]

I vote for the random death by critical auto-burst as part of the charm :)
I just tried iron-man mode in F2, (No reloads on death) , was about to hit lvl 15 on my Unarmed combat fella...then he just died to a 53 dmg burst. My mind just went 'That's not fair!!!'