Open Water

[Arnold]

FUCK!

First I read this thread, and I hadn't even got word of  the news.  I planned on abalone diving somewhere around Fort Bragg last weekend, but my schedule changed and I couldn't go.

Now I read this shit!

I didn't hear about that untill my mom called me and told me.  It kind of freaked me out because me and some friends went body surfing at that exact same beach only 4 days before the attack happened.  We where going to go out again the next day, but there where crap loads of giant jelly fish washed up all over the shore, and we figured it probably would suck to go swimming right into a bunch of them.  Now I'm really glade we didn't.

There have been a disturbing number of great white shark attacks at fort bragg over the years I have found out.......

I read that it happened in Westport.  The farthest north I've ever dove is Green Acres.  But my Uncle's in laws used to have a cabin in Westport and he dove there on occasion.  These days I usually dive south of Fort Bragg - Todd's Point or Albion or whatever.  We also have an annual family camping/diving trip to Manchester.

[Capt_XplOrOrOr]

Okay, just got back from seeing a matinee of the movie.  Personally, I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I think this is going to be one of those movies that you either really love or really hate.

Beyond the shark spookiness (which there is in abundance), this movie leaves you with a feeling of complete emptiness.  The scenery doesn't change, it's just vast expanses of water 360 degrees around the characters and it makes you feel fucking tiny.  Far more spooky than the sharks themselves.

  I saw it for free while movie hopping. The audiance groaned when it ended expecting more. "Well, YOU wanted to see it!" I heard a boyfriend say to his dissappointed girlfriend. It's nice you saw it as a matinee which I'm guessing means you did not pay full price.

  Wierdest scene in the entire movie - After they miss their original ship, and see 2 ships in the distance, another ship starts moving towards them. The scene cuts to some other scene, then comes back to them, completly forgetting about the fact that a ship was shown coming towards them!

 Open Water is not the worse movie ever made. Nice date movie, watch the first 30 mins (nice little nudie scene with the very attractive unknown actress in bed) then get busy with your date. IF the main characters had been put into that situation by circumstances beyond their control, then this would be a NICE movie. But this movie is about 2 very dumb morons, who end up in a bad situation BECAUSE of their moronic actions.

 Best line in the entire movie:

 Her -"OoooOOOo I feel sick..."
 Him - "You didn't drink the water did you?"
 Her - "Yes, why?"
 Him - "Your NOT suppose to drink the ocean water!!!"
 Her - "Well, you should have told me that when we got certified!"

  How the heck does one get certified if they do not know basic things about diving? One of my friends later told me they probably got certified because their check cleared - not because they passed the test. He said it's done that way many times in real life. And since this movie is supposivly based on real life.....

  When your boss tells you you have to be at work at 9:00 am, what time to you actually show up for work? Before 9:00am! Maybe at 8:30am, or 8:45am. The ship captain tells the entire diving group the ship leaves in 30 mins. That means come back in 25 mins, or even 28 mins. Not wait until 30 mins are up then head back to the ship. Morons.
 Forget about the other moron on the boat who brags he's been diving for 12 years, but then does something no veteran diver ever does.

  Yes I dive, and am certified. (I've proven to an instructor I can dive by myself, dive in deep water, know how to operate all diving equipment, etc. But I cannot teach.) I scored perfect. I later talked to the instructor after the class was over, since she was in a nice mood. She answered all my questions, and gave me more information based on her years of diving experience. I can't imagine any newbie diver making all the moron mistakes the guy and girl in Open Water make.
 "OMG! We moved! Even though we were not swiming and were trying to stand still. Why?.... oh geee the ocean has currents?"

 The guy then starts quoting information he watched on Cable TV!?! OK... going by his logic, one can watch a movie about flying  an airplane, or riding a motorcycle, or riding a horse, and will instantly know all there is to know after watching the movie. *rolleyes*

 Even after the ship left them, they could have remembered the general direction of the land and swam to it, no matter how long it took. Their life Jackets were good enough that they could swim at a very leisurely pace.

 Sharks are not scary. Like all animals they have set behaviors. Anyone who is not a moron, makes sure they are prepared before going anywhere. The ocean current carried them out into the deep ocean where the big sharks are at. It was their fault they came back to the ship too late. Their fault they decided to not swim for it to either the ship, or to the direction of the land the ship originally came from.

 

 I won't spoil the ending. But I am very glad it ended the way it did. And am also glad I did not pay to see this movie. I recommend seeing it if it comes on cable, or TV, or someone else pays to rent it, or if you go to the movies with a date intending to not watch the entire movie anyway.

[RhyssaFireheart]

IF the main characters had been put into that situation by circumstances beyond their control, then this would be a NICE movie. But this movie is about 2 very dumb morons, who end up in a bad situation BECAUSE of their moronic actions.

Moronic actions aside (I've not seent he movie yet, but am planning to eventually), the divemaster(s) and boat captain are responsible for making sure divers are back and safe before leaving a dive spot.  The fact that they didn't do a simple headcount shows negligence on their part.

 How the heck does one get certified if they do not know basic things about diving? One of my friends later told me they probably got certified because their check cleared - not because they passed the test. He said it's done that way many times in real life. And since this movie is supposivly based on real life.....

While this is nice in theory, and probably valid to a certain degree, it also shows you know squat about certifying divers from an instructor point of view.  In the PADI world, instructors are required to keep records of every diver they have certified, and the ability of any divers they certified is attested by their signatures.  They can (and have been) held responsible for signing off on unprepared divers. Whatever your friend told you is probably "a friend of a friend of a friend heard..."

 When your boss tells you you have to be at work at 9:00 am, what time to you actually show up for work? Before 9:00am! Maybe at 8:30am, or 8:45am. The ship captain tells the entire diving group the ship leaves in 30 mins. That means come back in 25 mins, or even 28 mins. Not wait until 30 mins are up then head back to the ship. Morons.
 Forget about the other moron on the boat who brags he's been diving for 12 years, but then does something no veteran diver ever does.

Losing track of time and/or air levels is human, and the entire sport is made of of the same.  Sounds like what the two people did was a dumb mistake, that was compounded by an even more basically stupid one by the boat operators.

Yes I dive, and am certified. (I've proven to an instructor I can dive by myself, dive in deep water, know how to operate all diving equipment, etc. But I cannot teach.) I scored perfect. I later talked to the instructor after the class was over, since she was in a nice mood. She answered all my questions, and gave me more information based on her years of diving experience. I can't imagine any newbie diver making all the moron mistakes the guy and girl in Open Water make.

If all you've had is a class and spoken to the instructor, then you know jack shit about real diving.  You're probably one of those divers that is a hazard to everyone else around you because of your own self-important confidence.  I've dealt with idiots that think they are great divers, yet have come down on top of me because they can't be bothered to look below them while they are taking their time descending.

Proving you can dive by yourself (which is retarded and dangerous, IMO, no matter how many people think it's great and do it) means nothing.  Proving you can dive in deep water (WTF does that mean anyways?  Diving by default usually assumes "deep" water, otherwise why are you wearing scuba gear instead of snorkling?) means less.  That's just one dive of 5 training dives to get an advanced cert.  And it's certainly good you can operate all diving equipment.  The stupid in that statement alone would make me question diving with you.  

As for teaching - do you have any idea of the requirements needed for someone to become a PADI qualified instructor?  It's not just take a few classes and get your manual.  There are several levels of certification you need to pass - Open Water, Advanced Open Water, Rescue, Divemaster (which requires a minimum number of dives be completed), Master Scuba Diver, Instructor, Course Director (teacher of instructors), and at the higher levels (past divemaster) there are dive mins to meet.  Plus you have to assist at a certain number of classes, etc, in addition to all the testing at different levels.  Stupid offhand comments like yours annoy me.

"OMG! We moved! Even though we were not swiming and were trying to stand still. Why?.... oh geee the ocean has currents?"

Depends, were they warned about the currents and what direction they were going?  If not, then the divemaster is at fault for not providing a proper briefing.  If these two are portrayed as newbie divers, then they shouldn't have been allowed to go off completely unsupervised.  Now, if they did head off on their own anyways, then their fuckup.

Even after the ship left them, they could have remembered the general direction of the land and swam to it, no matter how long it took. Their life Jackets were good enough that they could swim at a very leisurely pace.

Life jackets?!  LIFE JACKETS!?!?!  

If they were several miles out to sea, a leisurely pace is not going to cut it for any length of time.  Plus the hope that the boat might realize it's mistake and come back out to look for them.  Damned if they do, damned if they don't in that situation.

Sharks are not scary. Like all animals they have set behaviors. Anyone who is not a moron, makes sure they are prepared before going anywhere. The ocean current carried them out into the deep ocean where the big sharks are at. It was their fault they came back to the ship too late. Their fault they decided to not swim for it to either the ship, or to the direction of the land the ship originally came from.

I'll hold judgement on the "sharks not scary" part.  I passed up the shark dive in the Bahamas because I'm not into swimming with the sharks.  I prefer my marine wildlife to smaller than I am.  As for the rest, again, if the divemasters did not provide proper briefings, that is a failing on the dive operations part.  Current diving is a lot different than regular reef diving, and if you are near a strong current, then it should be a guided dive anyways, no matter what level of skill the divers have.  Overall, it sounds like there were a lot of stupid mistakes made by stupid people all around.

[Ezdaar]

You should see the movie Rhyssa. It sounds like you're a competent diver and as such will appreciate the movie more. Be warned however, it's not a happy movie and one of the type where once you've seen it you can't 'unsee' it if that makes any sense.  It was an excellent film on its own merits, even better when you consider the way it was made and have some knowledge of the subject matter.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Yeah, I'm planning on it.  Some other diver friends have seen it and their assessment is that it's going to set diving back more than a few years.   Still, want to see what it's about.  Of course, knowing the ending (and I do know), it makes me wonder how much artistic license there is, seeing as there was no one to talk to and all that.

I'm only advanced, but that's because I've never bothered to go higher.  Been diving for almost 10 years now.  Husband is the PADI instructor.  He started diving over 20 years ago.

[Hanzii]

 Even after the ship left them, they could have remembered the general direction of the land and swam to it, no matter how long it took. Their life Jackets were good enough that they could swim at a very leisurely pace.

Sirbrucing your post to point out the myriads of mistakes would be easy, but I can't be bothered.
But this one stands out.
Life jackets?
I haven't seen the film, but I'm sure they don't wear life jackets. If you don't know the diffrence between a BCD and a lifejacket, you're the kind of certified diver, that makes the hobby dangerous to the rest of us.

You're right about one thing, PADI certification is easy to come by While Rhyssa is right that there's a lot of really good instructors around, it's also a fact that every two bit third world vacation spot have PADI centers, and lets just say that some of them hand out certification like candy.
And you're an example.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Well, went to see the movie yesterday with the husband.  Besides the sheer amount of artistic license involved, it wasn't a bad movie.  Not a happy one, as Ezdaar said, but good none the less.  And Hanzii's right as well.  PADI's drive to expand and promote the sport has lead to some slipshod run operations.

And after seeing it, I would put all blame on the dive operators.  Running a cattle boat like that - wtf! 20 divers on one trip is way too many - and making such basic mistakes as they did are unforgivable.  Not taking a proper headcount before leaving, not cleaning up immediately after the dive (ugh, I'm glad I don't rent gear), not giving a clear briefing before the dive started.. so many things wrong.  

Of course, the couple aren't totally innocent.  Going off on their own, not coming back in time (I think they were late getting back) and not using some elements of common sense, but overall, they weren't at fault here.  Sucks to be them.  Oh, and Capt_Xpl0ridiot, those were tiger sharks, they happen to be aggressive, just FYI.

Some things bugged me about the movie, such as all the dangling gear (octos and gauges mostly), but the biggest was after she released the guys body, it seemed to be all bloated or inflated.  Couldn't figure that one out at all.

Still and all, I enjoyed it, and rather thought it was interesting how she was the one that was strong at the end.  And their argument was funny and oh so typical of couples.

[Capt_XplOrOrOr]

IF the main characters had been put into that situation by circumstances beyond their control, then this would be a NICE movie. But this movie is about 2 very dumb morons, who end up in a bad situation BECAUSE of their moronic actions.

Moronic actions aside (I've not seent he movie yet, but am planning to eventually), the divemaster(s) and boat captain are responsible for making sure divers are back and safe before leaving a dive spot.  The fact that they didn't do a simple headcount shows negligence on their part.

 You are correct, they are both responsible for making sure the divers are back. BUT they are human. And if/when you see the movie you will see that they did do a headcount. But it was because of the actions of a 3rd moron, (who is an even bigger moron than the 2 main character morons) that the two main character morons get screwed up with the headcount.
  Bottom line - the ship captain, and divemaster, are human. Next, there are morons everywhere who will screw everything up no matter how much one tries. "I've been diving for 12 years!" the 3rd (and biggest) moron yells at the divemaster and ship captain.

 How the heck does one get certified if they do not know basic things about diving? One of my friends later told me they probably got certified because their check cleared - not because they passed the test. He said it's done that way many times in real life. And since this movie is supposivly based on real life.....

While this is nice in theory, and probably valid to a certain degree,

 We are in full agreement. You agree with both ways. The fact that it is possible for some instructers to certify divers when they "see the check clear" is what we both agree on. As you said "valid to a certain degree".
 BTW, in the movie that was not the 2 main character's first time diving. They were already certified long before... at least 1 year before (that was how long in advance they booked the ship.)

 When your boss tells you you have to be at work at 9:00 am, what time to you actually show up for work? Before 9:00am! Maybe at 8:30am, or 8:45am. The ship captain tells the entire diving group the ship leaves in 30 mins. That means come back in 25 mins, or even 28 mins. Not wait until 30 mins are up then head back to the ship. Morons.
 Forget about the other moron on the boat who brags he's been diving for 12 years, but then does something no veteran diver ever does.

Losing track of time and/or air levels is human, and the entire sport is made of of the same.  Sounds like what the two people did was a dumb mistake, that was compounded by an even more basically stupid one by the boat operators.

 Yes, it is human, just like the divemaster and ship captain getting messed up by the 3rd moron is also human. What the two people did was not just dumb, it got them into an unnecessary life threating situation by them losing track of time. And anyone who loses track of their air supply will never do it again heheh... because they will be dead.

Yes I dive, and am certified. (I've proven to an instructor I can dive by myself, dive in deep water, know how to operate all diving equipment, etc. But I cannot teach.) I scored perfect. I later talked to the instructor after the class was over, since she was in a nice mood. She answered all my questions, and gave me more information based on her years of diving experience. I can't imagine any newbie diver making all the moron mistakes the guy and girl in Open Water make.

If all you've had is a class and spoken to the instructor, then you know jack shit about real diving.  You're probably one of those divers that is a hazard to everyone else around you because of your own self-important confidence.  I've dealt with idiots that think they are great divers, yet have come down on top of me because they can't be bothered to look below them while they are taking their time descending.

 The reason I mentioned my diving experience is to show that even with my newbie diving background, I would never drink the ocean water. I am sorry if it seemed like I was coming across as if I knew everything about diving. I do not. I am a newbie diver, with little experience. That is the point I was trying to make. That even with my little experience, even I know not to drink the ocean water.
 
  Let me ask you this, can you remember back to the first day you got certified? After you got certified, back then would you have drank ocean water if you were somehow stranded for 24 hours in the ocean? And right now, with you having even far more diving experience, would you right now drink ocean water if you were stranded in the ocean for 24 hours?

"OMG! We moved! Even though we were not swiming and were trying to stand still. Why?.... oh geee the ocean has currents?"

Depends, were they warned about the currents and what direction they were going?  If not, then the divemaster is at fault for not providing a proper briefing.  If these two are portrayed as newbie divers, then they shouldn't have been allowed to go off completely unsupervised.  Now, if they did head off on their own anyways, then their fuckup.

 One needs to watch the full movie to get an idea of how much experience the two main characters have in diving. They planned their vacation 1 year in advance. They were already certified before they made the dive shown in the movie. Theoretically this movie could have been their 2nd dive. But based on how familiar they were with their equipment, operating it, how they used underwater landmarks, shows they were not newbie divers... nor veteran divers. Just experienced divers. But for every smart thing they do, they then do a moron thing.

 Any 9 yr old knows that one cannot stand still in the ocean. The waves will push one around, even if there is no obvious current. But anyway, even after it hits them that there are currents in the ocean, hits them that they are being moved by a current, they STILL try standing still! *sigh*

Even after the ship left them, they could have remembered the general direction of the land and swam to it, no matter how long it took. Their life Jackets were good enough that they could swim at a very leisurely pace.

Life jackets?!  LIFE JACKETS!?!?!  

If they were several miles out to sea, a leisurely pace is not going to cut it for any length of time.  Plus the hope that the boat might realize it's mistake and come back out to look for them.  Damned if they do, damned if they don't in that situation.

 They were not wearing the usual type of life jackets. They were big enough to almost function 1 level below being a boat. They were these HUGE black floatation "backpacks", filled with supplies, diving equipment, tanks, etc... They were so big that one could not swim "normal", on one's stomach like olympic swimmers do. They had to swim on their backs (if they choose to swim above water.) Below water they can swim on their stomachs.

 They were in the water for over 24 hours. Day into night into day. Again, refer back to the 2 discrepencies in the movie I listed -

 1. A ship is shown coming towards them. The movie cuts to some other scene. Then cuts back, and ignores the scene it was showing with the ship coming towards them. What did the ship do? Go through them? Or did they refuse to go on it? Horrible editing by whoever was in the edit room working on this movie.

 2. At the start, they see 2 ships in the distance, in opposite directions. Neither ship is moving. They also see an airplane flying low. They could have swam to eiter ship (prefrebly the one closest to land.)

 3. After they discover they are being moved by a current they did not notice before, it is definatly time to start swimming.

Sharks are not scary. Like all animals they have set behaviors. Anyone who is not a moron, makes sure they are prepared before going anywhere. The ocean current carried them out into the deep ocean where the big sharks are at. It was their fault they came back to the ship too late. Their fault they decided to not swim for it to either the ship, or to the direction of the land the ship originally came from.

I'll hold judgement on the "sharks not scary" part.  I passed up the shark dive in the Bahamas because I'm not into swimming with the sharks.  I prefer my marine wildlife to smaller than I am.  As for the rest, again, if the divemasters did not provide proper briefings, that is a failing on the dive operations part.  Current diving is a lot different than regular reef diving, and if you are near a strong current, then it should be a guided dive anyways, no matter what level of skill the divers have.  Overall, it sounds like there were a lot of stupid mistakes made by stupid people all around.

 I fully agree with you on your last point and statements. Not all sharks are bigger than people. Even in the movie "Open Water" they got that part right. The first group of sharks they meet up with did nothing to them. Those sharks were roughly the length of 1 person, or slightly smaller. These are the type of sharks that are closest to land (though they rarely swim near the land. They hang out roughly 1 to 5 miles off of land.)

 Later on the current carries them out farther into the ocean, which is where the BIG sharks hang out. These are the sharks that grow to 15 feet, 20 feet, and longer length. They only attack people under two conditions: The people are trashing around. The people are already bleeding. They were already bleeding from being nibbled on by smaller ocean predators (the Man O' War, and others). It has been said a shark can smell 1 drop of blood over 5,000 feet away.

 But yeah, even without the shark problem, stupid people, moron people, will find some way to get into problem situations. In the end kinda nice, because it shears that part of the population off of the planet.

 Nice movie to take a date to, or to watch for free on cable, TV, or if another friend pays to rent it.

[Capt_XplOrOrOr]

Of course, the couple aren't totally innocent.  Going off on their own, not coming back in time (I think they were late getting back) and not using some elements of common sense, but overall, they weren't at fault here.  Sucks to be them.

 The main thing is they came back too late. Like I said before, if your boss tells you to be at work at 9:00 am, what time will you arrive? At exactly 9:00 am? Or at 8:30 am, or even 8:45 am? You will make sure you arrive before 9:00 am. :)

  Oh, and Capt_Xpl0ridiot, those were tiger sharks, they happen to be aggressive, just FYI.

 Re-watch the movie. There were two groups of sharks. The first group of sharks appeared first, back when they were closer to land. Those sharks were smaller, and just splashed around, and swam by them.

 Later, after the ocean current carried them out further and deeper into the ocean, a second group of sharks appeared. This second group was far, far, bigger. They were your Tiger Sharks. Tiger Sharks are not the only ones that will attack human-sized prey. So will Mako Sharks, and of course the most famous sharks.

Still and all, I enjoyed it, and rather thought it was interesting how she was the one that was strong at the end.  And their argument was funny and oh so typical of couples.

 Yes, their argument was very realistic. Especially the part where the guy kept yelling his Barbarian yell. "Are you finnished?" she says to him heheh. She was "accidently strong" in the same way Sigurney Weaver's character in the first Alien movie was "accidently" strong. She never looked for action, wanted to avoid it. But when faced with no choice, did what had to be done. Both of them were strong. Both of them were also weak (she was the one who drank the ocean water because she felt thirsty).

[Big Gulp]

 2. At the start, they see 2 ships in the distance, in opposite directions. Neither ship is moving. They also see an airplane flying low. They could have swam to eiter ship (prefrebly the one closest to land.)

Wrong.  They saw ships on the horizon, which is probably 2-3 miles away.  No idea if they're moving or not, and with an ocean current tugging on you you're going nowhere fast, no matter how good of a swimmer you are.

3. After they discover they are being moved by a current they did not notice before, it is definatly time to start swimming.

Swim where?  This is after the ships are gone.  They have no point of reference as to where land even is, and again, they've got a current to contend with, so they could be going nowhere.  And when you're stranded in the middle of the ocean with no help in sight the prudent thing to do is to not go splashing around.

And you're right, you are a newbie diver =P

[Ezdaar]

 They were not wearing the usual type of life jackets. They were big enough to almost function 1 level below being a boat. They were these HUGE black floatation "backpacks", filled with supplies, diving equipment, tanks, etc... They were so big that one could not swim "normal", on one's stomach like olympic swimmers do. They had to swim on their backs (if they choose to swim above water.) Below water they can swim on their stomachs.

 ...

 I fully agree with you on your last point and statements. Not all sharks are bigger than people. Even in the movie "Open Water" they got that part right. The first group of sharks they meet up with did nothing to them. Those sharks were roughly the length of 1 person, or slightly smaller. These are the type of sharks that are closest to land (though they rarely swim near the land. They hang out roughly 1 to 5 miles off of land.)

 Later on the current carries them out farther into the ocean, which is where the BIG sharks hang out. These are the sharks that grow to 15 feet, 20 feet, and longer length. They only attack people under two conditions: The people are trashing around. The people are already bleeding. They were already bleeding from being nibbled on by smaller ocean predators (the Man O' War, and others). It has been said a shark can smell 1 drop of blood over 5,000 feet away.

Seriously, just stop while you're ahead.

[Train Wreck]

the shark would go for nearest man and then he'd start poundin' and hollerin' and screamin' and sometimes the shark would go away.

This particular Navy doctrine is blaimed by shark experts to be one of the largest factors in so many people getting attacked.

[RhyssaFireheart]

And you're right, you are a newbie diver =P

Seriously, just stop while you're ahead.

What they said.

[pants]

And after seeing it, I would put all blame on the dive operators.  Running a cattle boat like that - wtf! 20 divers on one trip is way too many

On the Great Barrier Reef off Queensland, 20 divers on one boat is considered small.  They go through HUGE numbers of divers there every year.  Friends of mine dove off a boat that had something like 40-50 people on it.  There were so many, instead of the boat sitting in 1 spot and everyone diving off 1-2 at a time off the side, the boat puttered along at 1-2 knots and people continually jumped off the back, bit like a skydive.

There are some real, real cowboys operating off north Queensland.  Lets not talk about the 'Youve spent 1 hour in a pool at the hotel, you're ok for diving' operations.

[RhyssaFireheart]

On a boat of that size, 20 divers was far too many.  It looked like some people could barely move while everyone was getting ready.  On a huge dive boat, yeah, you could handle more, that still doesn't make it right.