Civ 4 - Fall from Heaven 2 (version .41N) and more - Updated 6/3/2010

[Sky]

My first Hippus game. I think you're right.


 

[Cheddar]

So I decided to get radical and restart the game (I always make a save on turn 1 - Hippus Start). And move my entire civ over to where those horses were. AND I got the three settlers from natives again, along with a worker and some cash to pay everyone until I could build my capital on turn 15 or so. Popped my three cities across the bottleneck, containing Malakim as the only civ behind me, and first on the list for the hordes to roll over.

Hippus bonus resource is horses.  :D

[Typhon]

   yes, Hippus get horses automagically, no need to find.  That there were no horses was actually a pretty big advantage in that game.

I love the Hippus.  Hit and run / high mobility is just fun.  I find it fairly important to use the Pact of Nilhorn cheese though (highly mobile seige for the win!).  A pack of two of upgraded horse archers before anyone else has anything decent is Mongol-horde good.  Made me realize that always upgrading with strength wasn't a good idea (first strike and flanking also for the win!).

[Sky]

I've always been a first strike fan, so this is some new stuff. I also LOVE commando, using enemy roads is huge. Got into that with my stoneskin ogres in a clan game and they just stomped the shit out of people but were able to get away from any real opposition.

I also use first strike for my naval war vessels, but have always used flanking for my non-war navy, mostly because that leads to mobility for naval units, but the flanking is also really nice for both transports and explorers. I'm also lazy with naval techs and tend to use the middle-of-the-road privateers for just about everything. They're pretty flexible depending on promotions and configuration. Can be set up for decent mobility or 3 cargo or good first strike/combat, can stand up to anything until real warships hit the seas later on.

[Lum]

The best min-max promotions in terms of bang for the buck, in order, for melee units:

Combat 1 + Combat 2 + Combat 3
(Cannibalize here if an undead unit)
Drill 1 + Drill 2 + Drill 3 + Drill 4 + Drill 5
(Blitz here if a mobile unit)
Combat 4 + Combat 5
You're now effectively unkillable, go nuts with everything else.

The Drill line is how heroes can defend against 30 cannon fodder a turn and survive. First strikes cannot be overestimated. The first 3 combat levels is so you have a good chance of killing equal or lesser units outright with your first strikes. Since the AI relies on overwhelming masses of units during attacks, this will keep your experienced high value units alive and also earn them tons of XP for more promotions. A hero with Drill 5 is your best shot at killing insanely tough units like Acheron if you don't have 30 catapults handy.

With Divine units I like to get the conversion promotions and healing promotions first since they're usually utility rather than direct combat, and having a Medic 3 in your stack helps a ton with keeping attacks rolling. High ranks of conversion are helpful (especially vs assassins as they will aim for the lowest strength unit which is the cannon fodder you just converted) and on upgraded classes like Paladins they can be devastating. And of course conversion on a hero like Chalid or Sphener can be a game winner by itself.

With Arcane units it's simple. First 4 mages: Death 1 - Death 2 - Death 3 - turn into lich.  Now you can have 8 archmages instead of 4.

[Typhon]

Have you ever gotten the Baron rolling in a game?  I always lose him at some point, and the werewolves themselves frequently become a liability.  In terms of flavor, they are awesome, as something to actively try to work with as a powerhouse, I haven't had much luck.

Just thought of something - if you move a werewolf onto the border of a npc that you'd like to take down a peg or two, and wait till the werewolf goes rogue, I wonder if it would be a decent disruption.  Lacking the ability to heal it, it seems like it wouldn't (again, seems like a large amount of setup for very little payoff).

[Merusk]

I found werewolves/ the Baron to be best when combined with the Svaltfar's trait spell that grants hidden nationality.  Then I can just feed him stray units to produce werewolves at a whim.  Just be sure to stay out of striking range of cities who then pummel his ass into the ground.  Bonus if you can get a black mirror on him, too.

[Lum]

By the time the Baron comes rolling out he's really outclassed by other units. I think he should probably have the Hero promotion so he can passively gain XP. That would make him considerably more survivable given when he appears.

[Sky]

Along that line, I feel the same way about Orthus. What was once a society-ending terror is now a joke and free +1 fire item.

I restarted the Hippus game for the third (and final!) time, since I was edumacated about free horses.  Much quicker start, but the barbarians and animals are really much tougher in my original starting point. My scouts can't get past a pack of polar bear who apparently subsist on scout flesh alone. Also got workers instead of settlers from the locals this time around, I'm guessing it has to do with placing your capital (or not - giving you a chance if your  founding settler gets offed, maybe).

Anyway, I wasn't surprised when Orthus showed up right next to my fledgling town I set up on my far western border to keep a check on Malakim. I wrote the town off: no palisade, single lvl1 warrior (though with commando and combat I from Tasunke). They beat Orthus and my first horseman has a shiny axe to grind on barbarians.

There's got to be a happy medium for Orthus, he should've been able to take that town easily, maybe grab a Malakim town. Cause a little drama on the border, give each civ a chance to passive-aggressively redraw the border by regaining the conquered towns.

So are we going to make the FFH3 mod for civ5? :P

[Cheddar]

Along that line, I feel the same way about Orthus. What was once a society-ending terror is now a joke and free +1 fire item.

There's got to be a happy medium for Orthus, he should've been able to take that town easily, maybe grab a Malakim town. Cause a little drama on the border, give each civ a chance to passive-aggressively redraw the border by regaining the conquered towns.

So are we going to make the FFH3 mod for civ5? :P

Orthus is a bitch once he levels up some.  Also, Orcs will tag along with him on his rampages; if you can nail him early its not bad - but give him 20 turns and ouch.

No FFH for Civ5 - see my first post.

[Sky]

So are we going to make the FFH3 mod for civ5? :P

[Merusk]

Feeling inspired by Sky I, too, started a Hippus game since it's one of the factions I've never seriously played.

I wound-up behind a barrier of mountains in the south east corner of the map on a peninsula barely large enough for 4 cities.. if it wasn't littered with mountains.  Fuck you Erebus algorithm. Fuck. You.  Time to restart on the plains or something.

[Sky]

I've never done the Erebus map. Been experimenting with new map types a lot, though.

Hippus is definitely badass in the early game. My horse archers just rolled over Malakim in three turns, ffs. I had beefed a few of them up on barbarians, and the one with Orthus' Axe is basically a hero unit at this point. Going to keep that vanguard rolling and see how far I can conquer before it stalls out.

Only worry is the AC, since I'm razing as I go :)

[Typhon]

I usually go Honor with Hippus.  Try hard to get Ride of the Nine Kings.  At that point, you can be wherever their armies aren't.  If they are too built up in one area and it's hard to flank/hit and run, move in Chalid and obliterate them.

[Sky]

Yeah, I was thinking of heading there for Valin Phanuel (mounted hero). Chalid is Empyrean, though.

Regrouping after the rush to horse archers, research-wise. Filling in a few builder techs and whatnot. Then I need to rush warhorses for both Ride and the Hippus hero. Guild of the Nine could be good, too. That could work with Order pretty well, too, given the trick I learned with Sphener in my last Bannor game. Take the city, send in Magnadine and Sphener, use Sphener to quell resistance and pop a 1-tile radius, hire some mercs that gain loyalty from Magnadine, roll on with the conquest...

[Soln]

If we're talking tactics has anyone ever had the fun of playing Balseraphs and using Loki to sidle into a city without culture and just... take it?  Probably only possible during the start of a game when culture is low, but very effective 

[Typhon]

Soln, that is essentially the way I play Balseraph.  It works right away on any new city, where you are in the game isn't important.  It works after a couple of turns on relatively new cities, as long as the owning NPC faction doesn't have a prestige bonus.  Your main research lines need to be economic and the rush to the pyre ghouls (which are just over powered).

Sky, Empyrean = Honor.  Valin is from the more militant "good" faction, if I'm remembering properly.

[Sky]

Oops, my mind saw Honor and subbed in Order. That would also change my religion to Good. Hrm.

Bals culture bombing is great. It's hard to understand why there aren't more devs cribbing what Kael did, most factions have such distinct styles, and so many are a lot of fun, especially when meshed with other factions trying to do their thing. Not balanced, but when the fuck did balance matter? Especially now with most fps games putting in imbalance via "rpg" mechanics.

[Typhon]

I agree, for a single player games balance should always take a back seat to flavor and diversity.  Not a "back of the bus!" back seat, but don't pull stuff from the game that is different or cool just because it's hard to balance.

For multiplayer games that aren't trying to do eSport, I'd say the same thing.  Just put metrics into the game that make it clear what the relative power levels are of abiliites, classes, factions, etc.  Then make the getting of the "achievement" awards scale based upon the relative power of the X that you are using.

[Soulflame]

I had that barbarian guy spawn next to a town, and he then mowed through all of my cities in short order.  What's the recommended garrison+buildings?  I figure a couple warriors and a palisade might do the job?

[Sky]

I had a single warrior in a brand new town (still building its palisade). Because I'm Tasunke, he had combat 1 and commando, and he barely lived. The first strike is probably what saved him.

[Typhon]

Unless they toned him down in a way I don't know about, Sky was very, very lucky.

Usually if you have 3 warriors and a palisade you can count on being able to withstand an attack.  But he's a bit more intelligent now and won't just continue attacking, if one particular assault results in him having a decreased amount of health, he'll move off to heal. You need to finish him off at this point.

[Merusk]

I've never done the Erebus map. Been experimenting with new map types a lot, though.

Hippus is definitely badass in the early game. My horse archers just rolled over Malakim in three turns, ffs. I had beefed a few of them up on barbarians, and the one with Orthus' Axe is basically a hero unit at this point. Going to keep that vanguard rolling and see how far I can conquer before it stalls out.

Only worry is the AC, since I'm razing as I go :)

That WAS my plan, too.  But of course I wound-up with the Scions of Patria  right next door.  Hard to kill a civ that gets +50% vs Horsemen so easily with horses.     I've managed to contain them from expanding beyond their first city but I'm spending too much time producing axemen to actually take them out.

[Raguel]

I lost my Civ discs during a recent move so I just bought the game. Sounds like a lot has changed in the past  yr or so since I've played it.  I think someone  earlier in this thread mentioned a new civ?

edit: nm  I have everything installed now and I don't see a new one. I guess I just misread the comment.

[Typhon]

There is a new Civ (Civ 5) in development, it's not yet ready for purchase.

[Sky]

Decided to keep the steamroller running, crushed the svalts who had hunters as their top unit. They had a number of them, and I took a couple losses, one of which I was kinda bummed about, a horseman who had explored a dungeon and came out an enraged demon unit, the unit graphic changes to a skeleton on a black horse. He then went rampaging through the countryside, his rage was triggering pretty good but kept expiring when he attacked svalt workers. One tense moment when a barbarian giant walked past him, but he moved on before they engaged.

That's the kind of flavor I love about FFH2, took a fairly ordinary invasion and gave it a much more interesting and cool angle. The horseman who got Orthus' Axe I upgraded to horse archer before my initial attack on Malakim, I mentioned he's become pretty much a hero unit at this point..I named him Horthus. 

I foresee the end of Cassiel next, but it's going to be tough, he's pretty well-entrenched in a larger empire. Then the Clan, which should be a bit easier. Then I think I'm stalled at Luchuirp, they've already built Barnaxus. I doubt I'll have Magnadine by then. But I'll have conquered about 1/3rd of our massive continent.

[Soulflame]

I was playing as Hippus, had a horseman running around hitting dungeons, and one of them did the demon thing Sky mentioned to my poor horsie.  When I got control back, horsie was standing on top of a shiny new axe.

Overran the pack guy fairly easily, started a war with Luchuirp via the wedding gift thing, and I'm slowly chewing through them.  Magnadine is popped, and ready to go.

[Sky]

I'm playing so aggressively this game that for once having an uncontrollable unit wreaking havoc in the middle of the map is pure awesome. Was :( I found myself hoping he'd enrage after every combat, and was bummed he kept running into workers that exhausted his rage when he converted them. I do have a hell of a workforce now, though. Lots of pillage to pay them, too.

[Cheddar]

Ugh, booting up now.  Scion of Patria here I come!

Is everyone playing FFH or Orbis? 

[Tebonas]

Orbis here, feels more roleplayish to me due to more explorables. 

[Sky]

Still haven't cracked Orbis yet.

Rolled over another Doviello who had a stunted start behind the Svalts. Some decent units, though...good promotions with few losses. I think Cassiel got too tough in the interim, I think the early game is about over and time to start consolidating my massive empire and figure out how I'm going to survive the rest of the game...

[Typhon]

FFH, so many other things to play lately that I haven't looked at Orbis yet either

[Sky]

Running into a cash crunch now. The initial plan was to throw out a frontier to cut off Luchuirp expansion and simultaneously back fill the region around my capital. I moved so quickly that I left the south and southwest portions of my starting area unsettled (barbarian fodder for new units rolling out of my production cities). Last night I pretty much completed the frontier and some of the backfilling, but I'm in a serious money crunch. Rushing for Warhorses hasn't helped at all, even at 70% tech - and now 60% tech/10% culture for the frontier pops - I'm bleeding about 90gp/turn. When I was steamrolling, I was making a nice bit of dough from Raiding and mostly razing towns as I rolled over them. Still have about 2k gp in the treasury, but it's bleeding pretty good.

The next phase of the initial plan was to catch up on money and arcane techs and start round two of the steamroller supported by mages with all the nodes I've captured. Now it looks like I might just build my hero unit and try to grind through Luchuirp who has also been over-extending in a frontier rush when he saw me doing the same, might be my key to victory. Also, I'll have two true hero units (got the RoK hero, too) and two horse archers (Horthus and Mongo) who may as well be heroes at levels 10 or 11 each, Horthus has four items as well. I think Luchuirp only has Barnaxus for hero units. He's rolled out some champs and archers, so it could grind down my army pretty well.

Forgot to mention I steamrolled Cassiel, well, just because I could :) He pulled the pitiful 'send out a zillion settlers' trick, every time I thought I had finished him off, no death quotes...send out more horsemen to scout and find his little pop 1 towns in the jungle. Blah.

[Lum]

I've been playing using the Wild Mana addon. Orbis hasn't been updated in a while and the author said he's just going to do a new one for Civ 5 instead. Wild Mana has a greatly improved AI (some of which has been rolled into FFH) and has some automation features for mages (set your nature priests to auto-plant trees!). The improved AI *WILL* kick your ass. I play it a notch below what I usually do (Prince) and get my ass handed to me regularly. My last game, AI Calabim was pinned in an area below me, then came knocking with a scarily well put together force of vampires, archers, and catapults. My death was quite swift.

[Soulflame]

I was roundly trounced when I tried Warlord difficulty.