Civ 4 - Fall from Heaven 2 (version .41N) and more - Updated 6/3/2010

[Cheddar]

I love this mod more and more.  I tried both the good and evil lizards; very interesting.  My main issue with them is lack of invade power.  My last game, for example, I got invaded by like 3 other civs and managed to hold them off.  Luckily I was able to create my dragon and toast a bunch of their cities.  Problem was I could not make headway into their territory.  Large part of it was lack of jungles in enemy territory.

Whats the deal with the minor trait?  I noticed when I played the evil lizards I got upgraded seemingly random and got new traits in lieu of the minor one.  I dug into the forums but saw nothing. 

Anyhow, time to give the Mechanos a whirl!  I cannot stop playing, poor LoTRO is feeling abused.   

[Teleku]

Yeah, I've just managed to push myself into supremacy as Mechanos following Lums suggestions above.  After a very long drawn out war, I've finally defeated the god damn dwarves, and have a pretty bad ass army setup.  I could probably easily crush any of the smaller civs at this point, so only question is to see how I do against the next ranked civ down from me (The orc civ), who do have a pretty big empire built.  At this point I think I've built myself up enough though that I'm unstoppable, but it was a good game!  The dwarves summoned the Angle civ, and in the course of the war, I was dealing with several stacks of 30-40 run priests, and at least 70-80 god damn Angles in various stacks throwing my invading armies back.  But luckily for me, Howitzers destroy everything!  And thank god for the flamethrower infantry.

[Lum]

The Minor trait begins as a penalty (hefty minus to culture and research, I think) but allows you to unlock a new trait based on your actions. For example if you are the first to found a religion you can take the Spiritual trait. Once you do you lose the Minor trait.

[Cheddar]

The Minor trait begins as a penalty (hefty minus to culture and research, I think) but allows you to unlock a new trait based on your actions. For example if you are the first to found a religion you can take the Spiritual trait. Once you do you lose the Minor trait.

oooh.  I like this.  My minor evil lizzy leader turned into a power house thanks to this mechanic.  Thanks for making it clear!

[Sky]

Still grinding out my Clan game. The Good alliance /finally/ declared on us, around turn 560. I was already halfway through wiping out Hippus with my Lich/Archmage/Hemah stack of Wraith casters (10 wraiths/turn, 22 strength thanks to buildings and 12 death mana nodes). Trying to keep the territory and level up my units a bit slows it down from the ultimate death march it could be.

So when the Good alliance declared, I threw all my culture producing cities (mostly done building improvements) into producing Shamans. Which were created with enough xp to make them insta-mages...which means an army of spectre-casters (something like 15 or 16 str, though, not quite as nice as the wraiths). I forgot to crank out defensive units for the beachhead + defending conquered lands...but my thoughts for defense are turning toward pillaging given the measly 10 AC.

Reason for needing a beachhead: Elohim cast Sanctuary about 2 turns into the war after I bribed his vassal Auric to invade him. Auric must've been champing at the bit, he grabbed one city right off the bat. The Sanctuary cut off the route between my empire and the Good alliance, so my Nexus invasion was stalled until I could get some Queen of the Lines into the bay.

About 580 turns into the game now, maybe 36 hours  (granted, I believe that includes AFK time).

[MrHat]

Still grinding out my Clan game. The Good alliance /finally/ declared on us, around turn 560. I was already halfway through wiping out Hippus with my Lich/Archmage/Hemah stack of Wraith casters (10 wraiths/turn, 22 strength thanks to buildings and 12 death mana nodes). Trying to keep the territory and level up my units a bit slows it down from the ultimate death march it could be.

So when the Good alliance declared, I threw all my culture producing cities (mostly done building improvements) into producing Shamans. Which were created with enough xp to make them insta-mages...which means an army of spectre-casters (something like 15 or 16 str, though, not quite as nice as the wraiths). I forgot to crank out defensive units for the beachhead + defending conquered lands...but my thoughts for defense are turning toward pillaging given the measly 10 AC.

Reason for needing a beachhead: Elohim cast Sanctuary about 2 turns into the war after I bribed his vassal Auric to invade him. Auric must've been champing at the bit, he grabbed one city right off the bat. The Sanctuary cut off the route between my empire and the Good alliance, so my Nexus invasion was stalled until I could get some Queen of the Lines into the bay.

About 580 turns into the game now, maybe 36 hours  (granted, I believe that includes AFK time).

That's awesome dude.

About 300 turns in, I generally get bored w/ all the micromanagement, so props to you!

[Merusk]

Damnit, I can't get orbis to run. Locks up as it starts building the world. 

[Lum]

This is another interesting mod to try: Wild Mana  Emphasis less on new civs and units (though it has some, mostly from Fall Further), more on making AI more effective. A lot of it has been folded into the main FfH mod.

[Khaldun]

Just did my first Infernal campaign. Very fun turning the world to hell. The first time I tried it I waited too long while I tried to spread Ashen Veil and get a big war brewing. Went back to a save (was playing Lanun to start) and just went hard at Infernal Pact ASAP and got rolling. Spread Ashen Veil enough before the Infernals that when the apocalypse really got rolling, I was getting 3-5 Manes a turn from other factions getting their asses kicked by the Apocalyptic leaders.

Avatar of Wrath really has to get crushed right away, though, or those Iras get out of control.

[Sky]

I wonder if Elohim's sanctuary bugged on me, he's still under sanc. Hippus is long gone, and I landed my pincer marine attack of two fleets filled with my insta-mages on the good continent, hoping to drive a wedge in before Elohim's border re-opened. Well, I've wiped out Basium and Gosam and on my way to wiping out Ljosofar while Auric tucks his johnson hoping I don't turn on him for vassaling and friending all the good civs. Been trying to keep a rear guard of ogres to fend off elohim, as well as some reserve mages led by an archmage, but they're just wasting time up there.

After I finished off the Hippus, my lich/archmage/hemah doom squad is hitting the far end of the good continent to seal things off. Game's pretty much over now, just too many strong summons for anyone to put up much of a fight as long as I don't make any strategic mistakes in advancing the mage stacks. Ljosofar is the toughest thanks to the treant spawns in ancient forests, I keep getting 10str treants behind my lines.

Should probably hang this one up and start an Orbis game, I've settled 70% of the planet between expansion and conquest.

[Lum]

Should probably hang this one up and start an Orbis game, I've settled 70% of the planet between expansion and conquest.

At 75% you trigger victory in vanilla Civ4. Dunno if that's the case for FfH or not but you can probably simply force-vassal everyone at that point anyway (except Basium but you already wiped him)

[Sky]

I turn off everything but Conquest victory 

[Khaldun]

Very very side note, but what the HELL is that one song in the soundtrack? The one that has a guy who sounds like the offspring of Enya, Dr. Jack Kevorkian and Droopy singing, "I wish I could give you something else?" and something about torture. Wow. It's so bad it's kind of good.

[Lum]

I think it's some goth band that donated that song to the mod. I remember it got credit to that effect a while back.

Most of the themes come from this album if you're into them. I like the Basium one! (It's track 9)

[Khaldun]

Is there a Wonder or other ability that can be used to force you to declare war on another faction? Or does Basium declare wars independently of you? I'm playing as the Malakim w/Basium in my current game, and like clockwork I keep being forced to declare war against the Elohim. At first, I thought it was because of a Defensive Pact I had with the Bannor, but I cancelled that after the first time, and I don't show as having a pact them now.

First time I've summoned Basium. He's kind of inert if the enemy is: a) overseas and b) not Ashen Veil. But if you declare against someone on the same continent as his original city, holy crow, he drops a bag of hammers on their head. I had to race him to claim the city I wanted that had a mithril node.

[tar]

Is there a Wonder or other ability that can be used to force you to declare war on another faction? Or does Basium declare wars independently of you?

Yep, that'll be Basium. Touch on the aggressive side when it come to AV civs. Bit odd that he's declaring against the Elohim, unless they went AV?

[Stormwaltz]

I think it's some goth band that donated that song to the mod. I remember it got credit to that effect a while back.

Most of the themes come from this album if you're into them. I like the Basium one! (It's track 9)

Did they pull out the Arcana stuff out of the sojundtrack? I haven't actually played in a while now.

FFH tuned me into that band. In the absence of Dead Can Dance, they're the best remaining alternative.

[Lum]

Basium will always declare war on the founder of the Ashen Veil (defined as someone with both the AV state religion and holding the AV holy city). And since Basium is hard coded to be the vassal of whomever summons him, that puts whomever summons Basium at war with them as well.

You can also be drug into war by accepting someone as a vassal who is at war already, and building "The Draw" (the ritual that allows the Illians to build Auric Ascended) will cause the entire world to declare war on you.

[CmdrSlack]

How, exactly does vassal stating work anyway? I'm the most powerful civ in my Mechanos playthrough. I'm at war with all of the evil civs, but I can't get the good civs to vassal to me. Does the war flag have something to do with it? Is it based on alignment?

ETA -- NVM. Forgot I hadn't switched to feudalism.

[Hoax]

I could have looked through the thread but...

Is there a good newbie guide / wiki for this?  I haven't played Civ anything since I played it on PS1 way back in the day.  I'm not even sure what order to tech up just to keep my cities happy and healthy especially healthy, it seems like a real struggle to not have diseased as fuck even after building every sanitation tech I could get my hands on.

Also for a welcome to Civ again scrub FfH2 race what are some suggestions?  I'm looking for something where I'll mostly be just building cities and tech'ing while playing defensively so I can get used to those systems again.

[Tebonas]

The Elohim are stronger on their home turf, which makes them a good defensive civilization, plus they have a World spell that hinders all enemy troops from entering their territory for a few turns.

A fine first builder civilization will be the Kuriotates, though. They only can build a few cities (3 to 5 depending on world size), but these cities are production powerhouses. They can work an additional plot ring around them and thus support the largest cities of all civs. And as you don't have to landrush you have a smaller area to defend.

Here is the Fall From Heavin Wiki with links to other pages.

http://fallfromheaven.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

[Sky]

The wiki is pretty light in info, lots of dead ends. But between that, the FFH2 forum, the manual and the civopedia, you can usually figure out most stuff.

I'd go Ljosofar for a first civ. Because they can improve forest tiles without removing the forest, they are massively productive, kind of easy-mode. And there isn't much of a twist to playing them.

As for your issues with health, did you mouse over the icon in the city screen to see what's causing it? Get healthy resources and build the buildings that tap into that (smokehouse for pigs/cows. granaries for corn/wheat, etc); build the health buildings (which you've done, herbalist should keep most cities for a while, though); choose your civs wisely. A strong combo is artistograrian, good synergy.

[Tebonas]

My first instinct was Ljosofar as well, but I avoided civilizations that are shut out of specific weapon groups (no siege engines, therefore reliance on fire magic or Giant bombardments) and might teach him wrong approaches (woodland workers). But yes, they are a splendid and safe first choice.

[Lum]

I could have looked through the thread but...

Is there a good newbie guide / wiki for this?  I haven't played Civ anything since I played it on PS1 way back in the day.  I'm not even sure what order to tech up just to keep my cities happy and healthy especially healthy, it seems like a real struggle to not have diseased as fuck even after building every sanitation tech I could get my hands on.

Also for a welcome to Civ again scrub FfH2 race what are some suggestions?  I'm looking for something where I'll mostly be just building cities and tech'ing while playing defensively so I can get used to those systems again.

Ljosofar (good elves) are a good turtle race, as are Khazad (dwarves) since you get a bonus for huge treasuries.

Other then that, if you haven't played Civ in years, um, you have some catching up to do. One thing to remember is that barbarians are a LOT more aggressive in FfH - garrison your cities and don't send settlers out without an escort.

[BoatApe]

Basium will always declare war on the founder of the Ashen Veil (defined as someone with both the AV state religion and holding the AV holy city). And since Basium is hard coded to be the vassal of whomever summons him, that puts whomever summons Basium at war with them as well.

Not quite always. I'm playing Balseraph/Keelyn, founded AV and have Kandros Fir as as a vassal. He just summoned Basium and I ended with Basium as one as well. Got an Angel from a dungeon pop soon after...

[Arrrgh]

Things I wish I'd know earlier.

Mages with high power fireballs are OP. Make all your magic nodes fire, give you mages the run speed and range extension talents, then just zip around mowing everything down with fireball spam. They can be moved to the coast to nuke incoming ships, and since fireballs siege they can replace cannons.

Assassins eat mages.

Hawks see assassins. Always keep a hawk or two in your mage stack.

Bannor running the crusade civic are great fun.

[Sky]

Mages with high power fireballs are OP.

This also works with other lines of magic. In my current game I went with death magic (see above) - which is probably the best because you can double your tier 3 casters (4 archmages/4 lich), with Hemah (who can double cast), that means 10 22str Wraiths per turn with no damage to the superstack (indeed, leaving a couple with the stack makes for awesome cheap defense).

The tier 2 Spectres aren't quite as good, but the same principle, since fireball is a tier 2 spell. Anything with a tier 2 summon that has affinity would work if you pump up the mana it has affinity for. Remember some buildings can give mana and you can demand all of your vassal's mana.

[Merusk]

I got orbis running finally.. had to reinstall Civs to do it.  One thing really bothers me is that you can't cast liches unless you're certain civs.  Played the first game as elves and couldn't get my lich-elves and arch-elves.  Very disheartening.

Also, the boats don't have the crew promotions from FFH anymore (Pirate, Longshore, Normal crews) and that really cripples you at times.  2nd game using the Erebus map program had me trapped on a peninsula because there's so goddamn many mountain ranges.  I was able to build one city then had to spend a looong time pumping research into ships to get to something with cargo space so I could expand.  By the time that happened the other civs already were into the mid-game with 8-10 cities each.  *starts over*

[Lum]

Basium will always declare war on the founder of the Ashen Veil (defined as someone with both the AV state religion and holding the AV holy city). And since Basium is hard coded to be the vassal of whomever summons him, that puts whomever summons Basium at war with them as well.

Not quite always. I'm playing Balseraph/Keelyn, founded AV and have Kandros Fir as as a vassal. He just summoned Basium and I ended with Basium as one as well. Got an Angel from a dungeon pop soon after...

Think you found a bug. I'm pretty sure he's supposed to break vassalage and declare war once he summons Basium.

[Lum]

Also, the boats don't have the crew promotions from FFH anymore (Pirate, Longshore, Normal crews) and that really cripples you at times.

They're unlocked with techs.

[Draegan]

So I finally got around to downloading the package on Steam right now.  Can't wait! Haven't played in years.

[Merusk]

Also, the boats don't have the crew promotions from FFH anymore (Pirate, Longshore, Normal crews) and that really cripples you at times.

They're unlocked with techs.

Unfortunately that means I was screwed that game no matter what then.  Ah well, another scenario I now know to just restart the game if I find myself in.

[Draegan]

Civ4 absorbed my soul yesterday.  I just played a regular game though.  Can someone break down what Colonoization, Warlords and Beyond the Sword are?  Are they just scenarios that are loaded into the game when I click the icon on the desktop?

[Sky]

BtS adds a ton to the vanilla game - you should be playing that as your vanilla Civ4.

Colonization is a remake of Colonization. If you don't know that game, shame on you, go sit in the corner.

Warlords, I dunno, multiplayer stuffs?

[Draegan]

Well yeah I played the original Colonization.  I was just wondering how the game plays out.  I loaded up Beyond the Sword yesterday and hit single player, and started a game.  I guess Beyond the Sword is just an update with some fancy scenarios that start you off at gunpowder?  Or does science slow down, or does it add anything different to the game?