War

[Stabs]

Die Wolke Ring Generalgouvernement ist Pubbierein.

The juxtaposition of the Swedish Chef with the proud Third Reich German is hilarious.

May your kitchen always remain pure!

[slog]

Evoke dropped SBUs in 9-4 on Goonfleet and have reinforced 8 towers.  Goons so far has responded by getting rapecaged in 9-4 by Elitist Ops.

[palmer_eldritch]

X-70MU, an NPC station system in Pure Blind, has been the scene of major battles between IT+pets and the Northern Coalition. Yesterday there were 900 people involved in a lagfilled meatgrinder where IT and Black Star Alliance lost at least five dreads, five carriers and one supercarrier (I say at least because those are just the killmails I got on).

Red Overlord are there too, but I don't think they are doing much more than smacking in local (badly).

[tgr]

Preliminary numbers according to MM KB is 780 IT-ships lost and 218 NC-ships killed since 01.04.2010. That's 85 billion or so lost for IT, vs 15b or so for NC.

While this is excluding the fact that the UMI bridge is incapped, and a few tech moons are incapped as well, I can't help but think that if this campaign of IT's is going the way it's going, it's going to end up as a fairly pyrrhic method of securing a victory.

Addittionally, apparently the wyvern pilot had bought the wyvern less than 24 hours prior to its death. Stuff like this has to be a morale killer.

[Stabs]

Addittionally, apparently the wyvern pilot had bought the wyvern less than 24 hours prior to its death. Stuff like this has to be a morale killer.

I may be atypical but I'm finding that losing stuff has zero impact on me if it's covered by the corp. I don't know what IT's ship replacement programme is like but I suspect that ships lost in sanctioned fleet battles are simply replaced. When I lose a ship all I need to buy is ammo. This is not what I'm used to in Eve and makes pvping constantly very attractive, win or lose.

Still good job NC! Yay for the underdog!

[Sir T]

They pay 80 mill for a BS loss and 800 mill for a capital, or used to at least when i was playing.

But i have to say I've heard the "hah it does not matter due to reimbursement!" argument many times and it never really washes. If a fleet gets royally hammered, less come out next day, if its a consistent pattern.

[Goumindong]

An alliance might be able to replace battleships fast, but capital ship replacement is never fast (that is why alliances stockpile them)

[tgr]

The campaign on MM's killboard started after the lowsec hotdrop, so you can probably add another 10-15 billion to each side for this "war", but still, a wyvern takes a little over 3 weeks to build in and of itself, the cap components might take anywhere from 1-4 weeks to build as well, so when we killed that wyvern, we basically sent anywhere from 1-2 months of work down the drain in 15 minutes. Add to that the fact he'd just bought and fitted it, and it will hurt him for a while.

In addition, one of the carriers we took earlier (during the lowsec hotdrop I think it was) also apparently took with it a few T2 ships he had in his hangar, which was all the T2 ships he had. Those are much easier to replace, but we're still looking at 1-3 weeks of work.

And from AJ Retard's accounting of yesterday, they began with huge cap numbers, reinforced a few tech and JB POSes, repped a few of their POSes, killed 100 BSes of ours and lost 60 (which he supposedly took from MM's kb, but last I checked we'd killed 100 BS and lost 45 or 49 or something so I'd love to see where he got his numbers from, and it'd better not be from his posterior), ROL had 50 or so BSes that killed tons of our caps that crashed (I see none on the MM KB, all kills are theirs, and apparently the BSes were HACs/BCs), they lost "10 caps to random stuff" as if it's of no consequence, and then most importantly, their numbers petered out. Ours didn't. We seemed to have more stamina than they did.

Still, it does not look good for them even if the numbers aren't 100% correct. If we take the week as a whole, then we killed 1513 ships to 612 ships lost, i.e. a ratio of 2.47:1. The value of the ships we've killed are 154.39b, to 46.35b lost, i.e. a ratio of 3.3:1.

If we take the official campaign (Killer Clowns), then we've killed 843 ships  and lost 242 ships, i.e. a ratio of 3.48:1, and the value of the ships killed are 88.8b to 15.72b lost, i.e. a ratio of 5.65:1.

That means we killed 670 ships and lost 370 ships monday through wednesday, for a total value of 65.59b killed and 30.63b lost, i.e. a ratio of 1.8:1 for ships and 2.1:1 for value.

That also means our K/D ratio has gone from 1.8:1 to 3.48:1 on ships killed, and 2.1:1 to 5.65:1 on value. Or in other words, we kill way more now that just IT and their friends are invading, than we did the rest of the week combined.

I'm not going to fall into the trap of thinking K/D ratios is the only thing that matters, but I'm hard pressed to see any way for IT to really spin numbers such as these in a positive light, when all they got for those 85-89b isk was 3-4 tech moons reinforced, and 1 JB system incapacitated ... in one day. They either have to improve drastically, or they're going to have one hell of a stamina reserve to keep this up. They'd also best hope their allies actually manage to take some of the pressure off of them, and quickly.

[Stabs]

Thanks for shedding more light on this it's quite interesting how these things work in practice.

And I wasn't trying to downplay the victory, just trying to figure out why losing a cap should be such a big deal.

If Goldfinger blows up James Bond's Aston Martin it's inconvenient for Bond but the real headache is for Q. Seems that Eve alliances have some way to go before the same is true for their frontline people.

[eldaec]

The problem isn't losing the Aston Martin.

The problem is that James Bond didn't have any fun.

[Stabs]

I see.

[tgr]

Actually, the cap pilots probably still lose a fair bit of money for each loss (unless they get f.ex 800m AND a new hull for carriers/dreads).

Add to that the feeling of watching your ship die around you, either as a cause of you being a dumbass, or the FC being a retard. Or maybe even server issues.

It'll brun in his mind, he'll dwell on it, and if it was anyone other than his own fault, he'll get bitter, and maybe build up a resistence to showing up.

I also just want to emphasise the carrier we killed, who apparently had all his T2 ships in his carrier. That's 1 carrier lost (which he may or may not get reimbursed, but probably will) AND however many T2 ships he had in his hold (so probably 100-200m or more pr ship in addition) that he's just lost. There's no reimbursement for that, and that will sting. And additionally he probably had to endure a long travel from delve to whereever it was (I think this was in the lowsec system) only to try to do something else boring (rep POS), and be rewarded with dying. There's only so many times someone will do that over and over before they say fuck this and leaves unless they actually make money off of it. And if they do make money off of it, then it's only a matter of time before the alliance runs out of isk and can't keep on reimbursing the caps.

So either way, we win.

Edit: btw, did I mention that there were quite a few caps inside the POS the supercarrier died at, and they could do nothing but watch, for 10-15 minutes? That's going to hurt too. Especially if it's a close friend.

[Kovacs]

(5:46:58 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We are setting the full Tribute list blue as of right now.
(5:47:06 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We being LODRA, of course.

Not sure it's news but it makes it official I guess.  Also not sure that it matters or how much help they'll be but eh... at this point more's better than less I guess.

[Endie]

(5:46:58 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We are setting the full Tribute list blue as of right now.
(5:47:06 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We being LODRA, of course.

Not sure it's news but it makes it official I guess.  Also not sure that it matters or how much help they'll be but eh... at this point more's better than less I guess.

That's me and that's fast: where did you read this?  Are you in that channel?

[WindupAtheist]

I'm not going to fall into the trap of thinking K/D ratios is the only thing that matters, but I'm hard pressed to see any way for IT to really spin numbers such as these in a positive light, when all they got for those 85-89b isk was 3-4 tech moons reinforced, and 1 JB system incapacitated ... in one day. They either have to improve drastically, or they're going to have one hell of a stamina reserve to keep this up. They'd also best hope their allies actually manage to take some of the pressure off of them, and quickly.

I have to say, at this point rooting against BoB/Kenzoku/IT/whatever seems almost passe from an outsider's perspective. It was fun when they were the developer's pets about to suffer righteous comeuppance, but they were utterly defeated and humiliated by goons and still managed to return to power. The image of the fat lazy overdog who's always had it easy has been more or less shed from what I can see.

[Kovacs]

(5:46:58 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We are setting the full Tribute list blue as of right now.
(5:47:06 PM) lodra-raphael-scoria: We being LODRA, of course.

Not sure it's news but it makes it official I guess.  Also not sure that it matters or how much help they'll be but eh... at this point more's better than less I guess.

That's me and that's fast: where did you read this?  Are you in that channel?

it was just the general nc channel if I recall.  Just started lurking about A day ago at work to keep track of things.  Much better than the forums if only slightly more activie.  FC's etc. seem to jabber more than they poast. 

[tgr]

I'm not going to fall into the trap of thinking K/D ratios is the only thing that matters, but I'm hard pressed to see any way for IT to really spin numbers such as these in a positive light, when all they got for those 85-89b isk was 3-4 tech moons reinforced, and 1 JB system incapacitated ... in one day. They either have to improve drastically, or they're going to have one hell of a stamina reserve to keep this up. They'd also best hope their allies actually manage to take some of the pressure off of them, and quickly.

I have to say, at this point rooting against BoB/Kenzoku/IT/whatever seems almost passe from an outsider's perspective. It was fun when they were the developer's pets about to suffer righteous comeuppance, but they were utterly defeated and humiliated by goons and still managed to return to power. The image of the fat lazy overdog who's always had it easy has been more or less shed from what I can see.

I'm rooting against BoB/Kenzoku/IT/whatever since he's actively attacking the alliance I'm in. I literally don't care if they've made a great comeback, as it's irrelevant.

Yes, they made a great comeback in gathering everyone and their dog, and push 2 alliances that were on the brink of imploding anyways to get their old psace back, but it doesn't matter. They're still attacking us and failing miserably.

Just as an added bonus, I've spent most of my time in x-70 today. I've yet to get in a proper fleet-fight all damn day because they'd apparently rather piss away all the progress they made yesterday (at the price of 90 billion I might add), so I've been relegated to station camping and 1-5 people ganking as we caught them flying out and about. This after they've been crowing and crowing and crowing about how they're coming and how we're fucked, in multiple communication channels.

I can only hope, for their sake, that this is because they've decided that whoops maybe they aren't as elite as they were "back in the day", so maybe they should wait a few more days for help.

[palmer_eldritch]

Molle and his colleagues are masters at simply lying, most of all to their own members. I'm sure he's telling them some story about how the campaign is going as planned and the NC's morale is failing etc.

You have to give him credit for building a new alliance after Kenzoku failed.

But as TGR said, this is the first time they've actually had to fight to try to gain space, and it hasn't gone well so far.

[Sir T]

He didn't build a "new" alliance. He basically invited everyone who still thought he was marvelous from the old GBC into IT. Prior to Dominion he and hes merry band failed repeatedly to take one single tower after 2 months of trying, even with AAAs help. It only when PL and goons stopped showing up that they started having successes. If PL and Goons had actually logged in, IT would have fractured before they massively blobbed into fountain. As it was I cant think of a single fight I was in with them in fountain that we actually lost (aside from Y-2).

The point of the whole "we are coming" buildup was to paralyze you all with fear, to make you nervous and afraid so you will not show up or crack sooner. Its also to make you afraid to attack his buildup points, which you did. It was psychological warfare, predicated on the fallacy that people are actually afraid to fight IT. Its pretty juvenile to be honest.

[eldaec]

Much as the travails of those-who-are-not-like-us are very amusing, no one has been able to win an aggressive sov war against an enemy who logged in since Dominion, unless you count AAA vs WizardHats.

Although IT are overrated, and don't even seem able to consistently challenge NC fleets atm, I'm not sure the sov outcome would be any different even if they were an effective force.

[Endie]

Lodra got a couple of hundred people n fleet last night and successfully defended a series of highends last night.

The hostiles had substantially superior numbers and I imagine that they'll try harder for the station and ihub timers over the weekend.  Maybe they'll be happier to attack ir they get even more reinforcement from additional forces.  It'll be a useful thing if we force them to bring in IT or the like.

[eldaec]

[edit]

never mind. false alarm.

[Endie]

Solar just bombed IT, killing (they say) some 300 BS, which would be a staggering toll.  I'm told Shrike is currently tackled on the station, too, but I'm not there and people get excited, so discount accordingly.

Edit: the numbers were more moderate than the above.  The attack happened though.

[Stabs]

Who are Solar? Is that an abbreviation for the new unpronounceable Goons alliance?

[Endie]

Who are Solar? Is that an abbreviation for the new unpronounceable Goons alliance?

No, Solar Fleet are Drone Russians who Molle proudly announced as part of his invincible coalition :V

Also Shrike got out though there are still other supercaps on grid so you never know vOv

[rand]

solar fleet, who are allied with atlas and supposedly part of the invasion trying to destroy the NC.

[palmer_eldritch]

Solar just bombed IT, killing (they say) some 300 BS, which would be a staggering toll.  I'm told Shrike is currently tackled on the station, too, but I'm not there and people get excited, so discount accordingly.

Shrike got out.

We killed a couple of carriers I think. It's hard to know what's happening with 900 people in the system.

[Meester]

I think Solar and allies are mainly wanting a grip on Geminate and also to help their allies in White Noise.

White Noise shot some IT before, so its not too surprising that Solar would too (their links with Red Alliance would also suggest this). Although I did think they were part of Molles Grand Armee.

[Endie]

I think Solar and allies are mainly wanting a grip on Geminate and also to help their allies in White Noise.

White Noise shot some IT before, so its not too surprising that Solar would too (their links with Red Alliance would also suggest this). Although I did think they were part of Molles Grand Armee.

Molle's Grand Armee is currently struggling to find Borodino on the map while being shot at by Marshal Nee who also just wiped out Soult's Corps for a laugh.

[Stabs]

I have to say I'm finding all this enormous fun without being in the slightest bit effective.

I went to fetch my battleship from high sec and got podded at an EC- gate camp by Brick Squad yesterday. It was one of those "I think this is risky but what the hell" decisions that I am learning you should never gamble on in Eve. Every time I die I have a moment about a minute before when I could have been perfectly safe but chose the more dangerous option despite some misgivings.

Waking up in a station deep in 0.0 I flew back to EC- and it was locked down by various people. I don't know who all these people are affiliated with, the variety of different alliance and corp names is rather bewildering to the 0.0 beginner.

Periodically glancing at the situation over the last 24 hours I finally spotted a window of opportunity about an hour ago and escaped to high sec. I felt the least I could do to help my heroic rescuers was some gate guard duty. That's traditionally dull but safe, right?

We held the gate for about half an hour then suddenly my overview literally lit up red as a perfectly coordinated warp-in arrived. Everyone else made it through the gate but I had allowed myself to get a little distracted and was 20km out. They vaporised me. (They being pilots from Cult of War, Atlas Alliance, Gentlemen's Club).

I really enjoyed it. Maybe it is a result of saturating myself for years on Warsong Gulch and Alterac Valley but I now have 7 losses and 0 kills, have not even got onto a kill mail, have not survived an op and am having an absolutely brilliant time.

It's also nice to think that I can only improve, being so firmly on the bottom of the Eve-playing curve.

[Endie]

PvP in Eve is a heuristic learning experience: after a few death-filled experiences there quickly comes a point when you stop freezing up, and you start being prepared in advance, and it comes from a serious of try something... "oh"... moments.

I honestly used to run through what I would do aftert I hit the grid as we aligned for warps to a fleet fight, and that got me through a lot of fights without dying.

[Stabs]

Good tip, thanks, I'll do that.

[slog]

brief update:  Goons have lost almost all of their Moon income.

[Fordel]

They are free from the shackles of PoS warfare now?

[Stabs]

NC obliterated SC fleet under lag yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0o1xRqEOX0
The video shows a fleet jumping and failing to load grid. NSFW due to some swearing.

Killboard for the battle:
http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6286958

Summary: 21B isk of ships lost: no casualties inflicted.

Conclusion: Arrive first.