War

[trevorreznik]

Here is some forum porn from the person who is employing AAA, SE and the rest, the rich Russian whose money is buying him a war in Eve, and who is talking about the hack, then moves on to other stuff:

All methods fair in this game! I'm not asking your bees friend who kicked LETA/rus-1-ukr from RA. Goons are beggars, they envy LETA that they had 5 titans and a lot of caps and cap pilots and petition all of it. I could kill for such things in rl, but it's not rl. LETA will have 5 more titans soon and a lot of caps and all this will be bought officialy! I'll sell hundreds, or THOUTHANDS TK on eve-o and get all my accets* back and you will be only whining about injustice. MONEY will win  (you just need to invest more money). Do you ready to invest it? I already doing it.  GG to all.

Like I said: you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.  The GBC must be so proud.

*I think he means he's been banned on some accounts

I think he means assets, not accounts.  The russian alphabet is different than ours -  a Hard C in English = K, a soft C in English is an S sound but is written as C, and there is no 'S' letter.  So for Time Card, it's TK, and for Asset, it's accet.

Also, -A- would be growing more if it accepted all the Goon applications into it, but sadly those apps are just the obvious spies who are filling up the spyradar with chaff so the real ones can get in :(

[Jayce]

Unfortunately the current game environment doesn't allow small neutral entities to hold regions long term.

If I was a small, neutral entity, I'd think hard about some section of NPC 0.0 space.  There are several regions like it, you can't be locked out of stations, and they are pretty rich in resources.

In fact if I have no idea why a small neutral entity would WANT to hold space and incur all the headaches that go with it.  Large alliances have buffers of people as old ones burn out or get bored.  A corp or alliance with ten actives is asking for burnout even trying to keep enough POSes online to hold one system.

[Endie]

Thanks for the interpretation, Trevor: that makes sense.

Nae offense, but you're not "gradually adding members" if you have (at least) three large corps invited on probation as soon as you start to lose.

Three, starting to lose? While I am less than certain about the long-term outcome of the war it's pretty even matched right now.

No, I meant before Bob came along, and before the North came onboard.  At first, in O0O0oo)O0OYZ & R97, in C9N (before the Quebecoise messed up  ) and in VNG we'd been able to outnumber AAA and Stain in their prime on several occasions, and had comfortably batted back all attacks.  I understand that that was when BDCI first appeared.  I remember seeing a couple in local and wondering if little igor was sub-contracting on the mercenary front.

[Phildo]

Also, -A- would be growing more if it accepted all the Goon applications into it, but sadly those apps are just the obvious spies who are filling up the spyradar with chaff so the real ones can get in :(

Are you positive those aren't rats fleeing a sinking ship?  You shouldn't turn people away just because we're at war with each other!

Jayce, The Requiem did live in NPC space in Curse for a while.  I remember them harassing IAC and occasionally coming through Providence when we were living there.  It's not for everybody though, and it's hard to set up a market for your alliance in a station where your enemies also have access.

[Endie]

The Requiem (as yet more Kugutsumen forum porn revealed) also sanguinely proceeded to make a succession of p. horrendous decisions, though.  Their pilots were generally pretty good (we suicided into them on the drunken frigate op) and decent guys overall, but the ex-Tri element believed their own hype.  Their forums were dotted with people suggesting that they should start with PL then take out Goonswarm before fighting Bob (I shit you not).

[Jayce]

Jayce, The Requiem did live in NPC space in Curse for a while.  I remember them harassing IAC and occasionally coming through Providence when we were living there.  It's not for everybody though, and it's hard to set up a market for your alliance in a station where your enemies also have access.

If you have enough people to justify a market, you should probably own space.  I was speaking of BDCI, which according to setar number around 10 actives at a given time.  Let's be generous and double that to 20-30 active pilots across all timezones (making numbers up, of course).  That still isn't enough to start a mini-economy.

[setar]

No, I meant before Bob came along, and before the North came onboard.  At first, in O0O0oo)O0OYZ & R97, in C9N (before the Quebecoise messed up  ) and in VNG we'd been able to outnumber AAA and Stain in their prime on several occasions, and had comfortably batted back all attacks.  I understand that that was when BDCI first appeared.  I remember seeing a couple in local and wondering if little igor was sub-contracting on the mercenary front.

Ah, got it. No, we were aboard from the start, just took us a while to get all the assets across the map, sort out the comms and get into fleets ;)

As for 'why would you want to hold space': BDCI (and to a large extent MC) has attracted players who want to have an impact on the game. For many it's less about the daily pew-pew (I can have that in most multiplayer games) but making small contributions to the overall 'story' or development of 0.0 space. Less about the fights, more about the campaign. That's why you'd have players happily sit at a gate camp for days, or show up for boring POS op after POS op in the North. You cannot keep those players happy in NPC regions, except for a brief rebuilding phase.

Agree on the horrible Requiem forums, people believing their own hype and the odd call to go head to head with PL as a trial of fire while lacking fleet structure, coherence and resources.

[Phildo]

As has been ongoing for a few weeks, Goonswarm's Australians and a few hangers on, myself included, engaged ROL at the Freebooter's Haven complex in BJD4.  ROL came at us three separate times and were thrown out on their asses after each engagement.  All told they lost 14 BS to kill 4 of ours and some assorted tacklers.  Unfortunately, since they know me from our fun times in ZS-, I was an early casualty and had to return in a battlecruiser.  We then ran the plex and made tons of isk.

On the way back to AZN we found a friendly carrier being hotdropped by three Stain carriers at the jump bridge POS that we were passing through.  We then proceeded to rape their carriers while saving our own and also catching a few T2 cruisers that came in to assist.

The kicker to it all was about 10 minutes later we found out about a hostile Ishtar one jump from AZN who was sitting on a gate.  Suspecting a trap some of our gang members jumped past him while a few of us remained on his side.  A Goon drake had the ishtar pointed and webbed while we waited for him to make a move.  I got bored so I opened fire on him too, figuring I'd at least drive him through and finish it off, but he just sat there and melted.

[slog]

Yesterday in DG- was interesting.  Goons had some towers coming out of reinforcement.  Bob had a fleet and we had a fleet.  Numbers favored Bob during the day I guess (I wasn't there) but in US primetime the goons had a slight number advantage.

Bob did some drivebys, lost some ships, and then left without engaging.  I was surpised they ran, considering they had a Titan in the sector.

[Endie]

A titan and a logged-off dread fleet!

[Sir T]

And advantage in Battleship Numbers (80 red battleships to 60 blue) plus a lot of our gang were in pospreys. We saved all 3 towers.

Btw Wicked Creek is almost entirely retaken from the Forces of MoneyWillWin. EXE are down to only 2 systems and their last station system is almost certain to fall, them having one tower left in it and its only sov 2 in any case (their other system is at sov 1). Curse is remorselessly turning blue, being swept clean of enemy gangs on an almost casual basis at this point. Scalding Pass is ours unchallenged, and BOB have only one system (non station) in Detroid at sov 3. Estoria is pretty much red for the time bieng, the forces of 'pos spam before downtime' having honed their technique when they are not losing carriers hotdropping ours (not to mention losing their carriers attacking our towers. Oh sorry that was ROL lol)

Also, at least one and possibly 2 of those Stain carriers in AZN self destructed.

[Phildo]

Whoever Enchura 1 & 2 is self-destructed both of his carriers.  At least the other one took it like a man.

[Endie]

Right now we are all having a laugh at logs of Jake Noble begging a Goonfleet director to accept 100 billion ISK to offline a large number of towers in order to break our sov.  I guess that beating us the old fashioned way isn't working out too well for them, and the hacking thing will only work so often...

Edit to reflect general interpretation of AAA approach:

/boasts about wanting to see us on the battlefield

/boasts about being "elite PvP alliances"

/claims to be ready for 12 month campaign

/boasts about unstoppable victory

/offers 100 billion ISK to get out of actually fighting

[Predator Irl]

Ok so I'm sitting in Curse looking at 150 to 160 -A- attack 60+ Rebellion (I think) and killing them pretty swiftly. Then as it was over -A- started to jump into another system when 30 TCF pop their heads through the gate. Of course, all of -A- pile back into the system and try to catch TCF, who swiftly jump back from the way they came.

AAA jump through after them quite swiftly and bubble the gate on the other side to catch them... them BOOOM! Doomsday, then another, then A few seconds later, 2 more doomsdays. It was absolutely priceless! Then -A- had the cheek to come back smacking in local, quote "you need 4 titans to dd even 15 pls of us im impressed".

Anyway, whatever escaped the DD's were murdered when they jumped back through the gate. One of the goons frapsed it, so I will see if I can get it.

[Endie]

Yep, TCF pretty much hammered AAA tonight.

And at much the same time, on the Fountain front, about 100 PL and SoT were fighting 210 Bob Allies.  The hostiles jump into Y-2, PL were set up at range and start sniping, their two titans jump in on the far side and double doomsday the hostile fleet, and the few survivors from their predictably-horribly-setup fleet get picked off by the conventionals.  Another superb GBC push into Fountain is sytmied.

To be fair, and this is not sarcasm, I was genuinely amazed that they even tried again at all.

[Endie]

This night just keeps giving and giving.

In his flailing attempts to save face, Jake Noble just burned his own director-level spy in Goonfleet!

It took minutes...  Oh, and the spy (Iromei) had paid for a titan to be built, which we now get.  Thanks for that...

[Phildo]

Jake Noble chat log.

Attempting to save face by repeating the offer publically.

This sounds reliable to me.

Can I be paid directly in aluminum or do I have to settle for ISK?

[Endie]

I cannot believe how good this gets.  Here we have a director-level spy.  In charge of the Goonswarm capital fleet.  A truly war-winning asset who it looks like was possibly the one behind the DG- hack and re-subbed someone else's trial account (bantime!  And potentially oops Finfleet!) and who has been telling AAA/Bob about every move our capital fleet makes.  The sort of intel asset that explains so much of what has been happening and why Bob and AAA stopped getting humped (though he couldn't stop us defending DG- successfully today  )  And that grade-A narcissist and all-round retard Jake Noble actually blows his cover through his inability to stop wanking himself off on CAOD!

To summarise so far for those not keeping count today:

Bob fail to defend their DG- towers, Goons keep the system for now at least
GBC get slaughtered in Fountain
AAA get humped by TCF
Jake Noble gets laughed at for not just failing to recruit a GF director but burning a stellar intel asset at the highest level in GF.
Exe get reduced to their last two systems in Wicked Creek at downtime
ROL get slaughtered in BJD, and their Stain Empire allies lose three carriers trying to hotdrop us a couple of systems over

Surely it is impossible that Bob will actually lose their last Fountain station but it would certainly round the day off nicely...

Edit: I say that but Bob have lost 6 POSes in Y-2 tonight.

[setar]

Wait. Does that mean nobody hacked someone's computer for R2J and DG- after all ?

[Phildo]

Hahaha.  R2TJ is still almost assuredly a bug, though the DG- thing appears to have been Iormei's work.

[Simond]

OTOH, DG- was OEG POSes (which they manage themselves) and not Goonfleet itself. So it's still account theft and still BoB+pets behind it all, just one layer removed. Of course, the true hilarity would be if it was the DG- stuff which tipped off the GIA to who the mole was, burning the director-level spy just so Finfleet could jump out a bunch of crap from station. 

[Endie]

Wait. Does that mean nobody hacked someone's computer for R2J and DG- after all ?

You're a smart kiddo: if a AAA spy steals someone else's account it doesn't count as lolgooniehaxploitz...

[setar]

The fun part with bribing GS members is that you are almost guaranteed to get away with it. When IAC bribed a FIX member to shut down 10 POS in FAT initial claims were 'CCP screwed us, it's a bug', followed by 'someone hacked into XYZs account'. Mahrin will remember this -- only after really following up in great detail it became clear that it simply was a director / POS fueler who took ISK and defueled the towers.

Here it seems all you have to do is scream 'my account's been hacked!' and the guilty party has been found.

[Endie]

Come on setar, you honestly didn't strike me as a genuine apologist for that sort of stuff.  Anyway, it moves the whole thing into a gray area EULA-wise so I suspect that CCP will be able to get away with doing nothing.  And we'd have happily let

Seeing Evil Thug sperging on CAOD about it after being rather emo on TS about his fleet loss, and claiming to have hired two more spies (I'll bet he has had two such offers, quite genuinely, but he may not be buying what he thinks he is) on CAOD just adds to the glory of the day.

And then we have Coven allegedly losing a big chunk of their titan fund: http://kb.coven.pl/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31908 

What a day.  Surely we must lose a titan to round it all off...

[setar]

Does it matter what I think? The community here seems convinced that -A- are a band of ebayers, bought out with real life money, hacking into accounts because it cannot beat GS in a fair fight. That's not going to change, no matter what my point of view is; might as well embrace it, poke a few folks for the fun of it and otherwise just sit back and enjoy the reading material.

[Phildo]

That's not necessarily true, you know.  AAA on the whole aren't bad people, but the leaders are making a pretty good case for being absolute shitheels all over the place.  In particular, Jake Noble and Evil Thug are doing a pretty poor PR job on Eve-O.  That and the sheer volume of their own words they had to swallow in allying with both Stain Empire and BoB at the start of this conflict.  And that it appears they were paid real money over this war.

[Simond]

What a day.  Surely we must lose a titan to round it all off...

I'm watching the Istvaan thread in CAOD with mild interest.

[Arthur_Parker]

How did the spy get burnt exactly?  I have war room access but seriously, long threads, :effort:

[Gets]

[Phildo]

Using 4 titans on gang, who just came to fight, stealing pew pew from your own members.

If you are unable to pew pew fleet vs fleet, and think, that this is obligatory to use titans, go on. We are fine with it.

Gf.

It's really hillarious to see Thug whine about DD's; coming from a guy who DD'd countless fleets inside POS shields during numerous fleet fights, SV5, F9E, FAT-36, T-R.

[Pezzle]

Thug was also a tower bowler. 

From an outsider perspective.  Go ahead and shoot each other for the next few years.

[Jayce]

It's really hillarious to see Thug whine about DD's; coming from a guy who DD'd countless fleets inside POS shields during numerous fleet fights, SV5, F9E, FAT-36, T-R.

Including us in the Vanguard days, a piddly alliance holding two systems in Catch.

How did the spy get burnt exactly?  I have war room access but seriously, long threads, :effort:

We'd be poor examples of opsec if we gave that away on a public forum, now wouldn't we.

[lac]

Does it matter what I think? The community here seems convinced that -A- are a band of ebayers, bought out with real life money, hacking into accounts because it cannot beat GS in a fair fight. That's not going to change, no matter what my point of view is; might as well embrace it, poke a few folks for the fun of it and otherwise just sit back and enjoy the reading material.

Well this is the war thread. There's not much point in having a good war if you can't vilify the other side, is there. Before you know it everybody would be getting along just fine in no-mans land and nobody would do the necessary dying. Of course occasionally people get caught up in their own rethoric and suspension of disbelieve a bit too much and seem to forget that the other party is pretty much themselves painted in a different colour but hey, that's what it takes to get to the drama bit.

[Yoru]

Does it matter what I think? The community here seems convinced that -A- are a band of ebayers, bought out with real life money, hacking into accounts because it cannot beat GS in a fair fight. That's not going to change, no matter what my point of view is; might as well embrace it, poke a few folks for the fun of it and otherwise just sit back and enjoy the reading material.

Well this is the war thread. There's not much point in having a good war if you can't vilify the other side, is there.

You're wrong.

[lac]

I was talking about a real war. I'm all for a more sportsmanship attitude in these internet game wars.