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Author Topic: War  (Read 1922873 times)
Simond
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Reply #315 on: March 12, 2007, 04:45:46 PM

SMASH offer was 10B, not 5B.
SMASH say it was 10 billion, RA & Goons say it was 5 billion.

/shrug

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
JoeTF
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Reply #316 on: March 12, 2007, 05:31:27 PM

Endie, ok I overdid a bit. Mainly because first post on EVE:O forums stated 9 dreds from the start (or they're master edit ninjas;-).
Endie
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Reply #317 on: March 13, 2007, 12:52:43 AM

Endie, ok I overdid a bit. Mainly because first post on EVE:O forums stated 9 dreds from the start (or they're master edit ninjas;-).

No worries... confusion of current events and all that  cheesy

Edit:

The much maligned "they're scared to do anything" D2  alliance just launched a 48-dreadnought attack on Bob "they're honestly not a pet they're totally independent" footstool MC's capital shipyards, rumoured location of an in-progress Leviathan titan.  Someone could end up hurting badly because of this: who depends on how rapid the Bob response is.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 04:22:53 PM by Endie »

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Simond
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Reply #318 on: March 13, 2007, 05:06:59 PM

Judging from CAOD on EVE-O, BoB are concerned.
Oh, they're still not posting there...but their alts, spies, and muckrakers are out in full force.  :mrgreen:

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Yoru
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Reply #319 on: March 13, 2007, 06:00:24 PM

BoB showed up in force (100+ BSes, titan, couple other caps) elsewhere earlier today.

Scooped me some nice tech2 drones.

Edit: Aaaaand I just helped pop my first carrier. :-D
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 07:12:10 PM by Yoru »
Fordel
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Reply #320 on: March 13, 2007, 07:25:08 PM

I love shots like that, you can really get a scale for how big some of these structures and ships really are. So is yard in reinforced and when does it come out?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
dwindlehop
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Reply #321 on: March 13, 2007, 07:55:16 PM

Edit: Aaaaand I just helped pop my first carrier. :-D
Can't make posts like that without a link to a km! :-D
Yoru
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Reply #322 on: March 13, 2007, 08:15:29 PM

Edit: Aaaaand I just helped pop my first carrier. :-D
Can't make posts like that without a link to a km! :-D

Oh sure, be that way.

Also, MC may have a Leviathan titan cooking in those yards... Internet rumors ftw.
tmp
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Reply #323 on: March 13, 2007, 08:44:51 PM

Judging from CAOD on EVE-O, BoB are concerned.
Oh, they're still not posting there...but their alts, spies, and muckrakers are out in full force.  :mrgreen:
You mean the MC shipyards? I've just read that thread, there's something like 5 posts with no alliance tickers whining about D2, and 40 or so from D2 allies patting them on the back and flaming the alts.

Maybe we read different CAODs, but that looks nothing like full force to me.
Yoru
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Reply #324 on: March 13, 2007, 11:21:18 PM

3 more carriers downed on the way home from the original op. Sadly, [SNIGG] got all the killmails. :(

Scratch that:

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/22939
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/22938
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/22936
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 11:42:09 PM by Yoru »
Ratadm
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Reply #325 on: March 14, 2007, 02:15:15 AM

Generally kills get cross posted if multiple alliances are involved, I know I've posted 1 or 2 on Goon kb where there pilots were involved but I got km.
Endie
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Reply #326 on: March 14, 2007, 02:19:24 AM

Judging from CAOD on EVE-O, BoB are concerned.
Oh, they're still not posting there...but their alts, spies, and muckrakers are out in full force.  :mrgreen:
You mean the MC shipyards? I've just read that thread, there's something like 5 posts with no alliance tickers whining about D2, and 40 or so from D2 allies patting them on the back and flaming the alts.

Maybe we read different CAODs, but that looks nothing like full force to me.

Oh, I dunno, looks like quite a forum-push to me:

Fall Angelus: Goons leaving coalition?
Gnulpie: The end of great southern war?
Wylker: Who to believe in the coalition?
Blitz'Krieg: Can BoB truly be defeated?
Lord Guffy: The feasibility of longterm Bandwagon stability

And so on.  The oh-how-very-odd thing is that the writing style of most of these posts is eerily identical: a title which is a question; a passive-aggressive approach which seeks to damn the coalition with faint praise; lengthy posts with frequent use of short paragraphs but sloppy, faux-foreign grammar; similar character-creation and corp-founding dates (not the last couple of days, usually: more like two to three weeks ago, with a single post on non-controversial stuff).

Of course, in recent weeks, there have been some goon ones too: the most obvious Goon alt was such a retard that he was told to shut up by all sides, in a rare moment of forum consensus.  Both sides do it: it's just interesting who seems to feel the need to spin at any given time.

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Simond
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Reply #327 on: March 14, 2007, 02:44:40 AM

Well,

you'd

soon

be

able

to

figure

out

if

any

of

them

were

DBPreacher


-dbp
 cheesy

And on a slightly less irritating note, is anyone else getting a faint sense of deja vu here? Coalition hot-jumping a dread fleet to tear apart a bunch of their enemy's dreads in siege mode (said enemy previously having an aura of invulnerability), swiftly followed by an overwhelming strike against capital shipyards where a titan is rumoured to be cooking....

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
tmp
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Reply #328 on: March 14, 2007, 10:17:09 AM

Oh, I dunno, looks like quite a forum-push to me:

Fall Angelus: Goons leaving coalition?
Gnulpie: The end of great southern war?
Wylker: Who to believe in the coalition?
Blitz'Krieg: Can BoB truly be defeated?
Lord Guffy: The feasibility of longterm Bandwagon stability

And so on.
Ah, thought you meant that MC shipyards thing since it was mentioned right before. Overall there's quite a few of these yes. Though they sound so naive, I have to wonder how much of it is simply clueless observers jumping on topic du jour just to feel more important.
Yoru
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Reply #329 on: March 14, 2007, 11:00:40 AM

There is much laughter on the goon forums about this supposed split with RA.

We practically screw each others' sisters.
Nija
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Reply #330 on: March 14, 2007, 03:06:57 PM

Practically?

Yoru you're missing out!
Krakrok
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Reply #331 on: March 14, 2007, 04:12:57 PM


Russian mail order brides for all the goons!
Endie
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Reply #332 on: March 16, 2007, 07:59:18 AM

A major dread fleet just destroyed the Mercenary Coalition (Bob Vassals, although laughably claim to be independent) capital shipyards, with a mothership (one step shy of a Titan) 22 days into construction, with 8 days to go.  As usual, there's some confusion about the results, but the exchange was five coalition (and/or AAA?) dreads for the shipyards, with what seem like some substantial battleship losses, but that's still to be confirmed.  Evil Thug doomsdayed, and the aftermath of the engagement was the coalition controlling the battlefield:

A big hole where there used to be 20 billion worth of brewing mothership and capital shipyards.

Like i say, this one is still shaking down, so info will doubtless change.  Seleene's responses are pretty measured and informative, but the change in the thread from "ha ha D2 you failed" when they second attack is launched is fun.  Expect a bazillion Bob alts on the Eve-O boards.

I can't help but wonder if two attacks were always planned, although obviously the Coalition couldn't have expected the servers to mess up as badly as last night.  But it would have been wise to keep up such a high operational tempo: Bob and Vassals had, i gather, 600+ defenders online for the initial attack that was disrupted by the servers.  The second one, presumably, saw rather fewer defenders available as a result.

Edit:  It seems to have been a mainly RA/AAA operation.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 08:12:52 AM by Endie »

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WindupAtheist
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Reply #333 on: March 16, 2007, 09:22:22 AM

What the fuck is with people on that forum posting in...

HUGE FUCKING LETTERS?

Makes shit god damn unreadable.  Where the hell are the mods?

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Endie
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Reply #334 on: March 16, 2007, 09:49:57 AM

What the fuck is with people on that forum posting in...

HUGE FUCKING LETTERS?

Makes shit god damn unreadable.  Where the hell are the mods?

The Mods have their work cut out deleting all references to BoD and general developmental cheating.  They don't have time to make it readable.

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Yoru
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Reply #335 on: March 16, 2007, 10:25:07 AM

Eve-O is all but unreadable anyway, even without the huge letters.
tmp
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Reply #336 on: March 16, 2007, 11:30:05 AM

I can't help but wonder if two attacks were always planned, although obviously the Coalition couldn't have expected the servers to mess up as badly as last night.  But it would have been wise to keep up such a high operational tempo: Bob and Vassals had, i gather, 600+ defenders online for the initial attack that was disrupted by the servers.

I'd say both were planned, apparently D2 organized and moved down close to 40-50 capital ships, and the russian alliances had similar numbers ready as well. Both coupled with few hundreds of support ships total. You don't muster up and move such numbers if you don't intend to do something with them.

That or the first was planned and the server lag got in the way, and the second was spur of moment thing that seized good opportunity to get something actually done (see below)


Quote
The second one, presumably, saw rather fewer defenders available as a result.

According to Seleene's report attack happened right before the downtime, in fact split in two by DT (POS was taken to sliver of shield, then servers went down, then finished when they went up)  That means very few people available, with eastern Europe getting upper hand. Either unfortunate timing on MC part, or very good timing on coalition part, or just stroke of luck with the initial strike that put the yard in reinforced. No idea how these things exactly work so hard to tell.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 11:33:55 AM by tmp »
Fordel
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Reply #337 on: March 16, 2007, 12:34:49 PM

So they did end up getting the yards in the end. I was only informed to the point where D2 was ready to finish it then pulled back due to lag+BoB MegaFleet.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
tmp
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Reply #338 on: March 16, 2007, 12:49:50 PM

So they did end up getting the yards in the end. I was only informed to the point where D2 was ready to finish it then pulled back due to lag+BoB MegaFleet.
There was two yards, one came out of reinforced yesterday evening (GMT) the other today around noon. BoB/MC and D2/AAA/RA/etc fleets formed to battle over the first yard but nothing came out of it due to lag et al, and the first yard was repaired/refuelled. The other one was attacked and killed today by AAA/RA operating on their own if I read the forum reports right.
Morat20
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Reply #339 on: March 16, 2007, 12:53:17 PM

So they did end up getting the yards in the end. I was only informed to the point where D2 was ready to finish it then pulled back due to lag+BoB MegaFleet.
Primary yard was saved. Secondary yard -- which had an almost-complete Mothership, but not too much else it looks like -- was lost. A pricey lost, but whether it was worth it depends on what was in the primary yard.
Fordel
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Reply #340 on: March 16, 2007, 01:21:23 PM

I guess we will see if they go back for the first yard then?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
MahrinSkel
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Reply #341 on: March 16, 2007, 02:11:14 PM

I have no idea what was in the first yard.  The second was a classic russian DT blitz.  It was about 15-18B of POS and mothership for about 8-12B of dreadnought (depending on how they were fitted).  Disappointing after stopping the northern assault cold the night before, we didn't think they'd have the balls to go after the second.  Obviously, we forgot the russians have larger stones than the germans.

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Fordel
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Reply #342 on: March 16, 2007, 02:26:48 PM

I think ET got a hand full of Bships and support with his DD as well.



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Endie
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Reply #343 on: March 21, 2007, 02:04:02 AM

Fakeedit: This has been sitting, unposted, on my PC since yesterday, so it's now almost a day old.  Damn meetings.

Bob pulled an alarm-clock operation today, after weeks of fighting in KoS's C3- system, and managed to take a PoS there which will flip sovereignty on the system at last.  It's been a real meat-grinder for them over the weeks, not so much in terms of ship losses (for which they care not a jot) as player time at horrible hours.  KoS had repeatedly pulled the trick of, when BoB killed a Pos, sending in a suicide industrial right into the middle of the dread fleet, which would pop, fuel and online a Pos before it could be destroyed.  As it is, BoB turned up with multiple titans and literally dozens of dreads, and the coalition really didn't have an answer in the end, and got pretty much wiped.  I don't know what exact losses on each side were.

Interestingly, one coalition dread managed to tank 26 enemy dreads for almost 15 minutes until his friends could wipe off the inties long enough for him to get into a PoS shields.  His setup must be startling.

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JoeTF
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Reply #344 on: March 21, 2007, 06:00:57 AM

Seeing that there were ~300 ragoon+addons present and only 130 bobbites, the simple fact bob managed to survive amazes me.
They also killed 6 POSes, put into reinforced another 5, downed one carrier several hundred support ships.
All of this while being outnumbered 3 to 1 by defenders.

Endie
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Reply #345 on: March 21, 2007, 06:46:22 AM

Numbers like that are pretty meaningless: Bob won because of coherent organisation and supercapital assets, and you could have added another 300 GS T1 frigs and cruisers on top without noticeable effect beyond lag.  Remember that they could press the Iwin doomsday button every twenty minutes and account for huge numbers of lagged-out pilots with no chance of escape.  And the fact that the titan has been given an invincibility buff this patch makes exposing them to do that almost entirely risk-free.  That's not a dig at Bob, by the way: they didn't get the titans in a rigged event.  It's a  rolleyes at CCP for continuing lousy game design.

Anyway, even when Bob started to suffer towards the end they had a titan already set up 8 jumps away to retrieve the fleet.  Very nice organisation, and an even nicer number of dreads, motherships, carriers and titans.

I maintain that the coalition's best hope is to be in multiple places in multiple timezones: an alarm-clock op like this, with Bobites having to skip classes and work in some cases, is not a sustainable way to wage war for them, for all that they'll continue to win most set pieces for a while yet.

One funny thing the same day was a chatlog of Shrike speaking to an Outbreak contact.  The Outbreak bloke was asking Bob to set them to blue for a day so they could help their friends in MC defend the capital yards last week.  Shrike said, pretty clearly, not unless you give us something pretty impressive in return.  What will you do for us?  No helping your friends unless you bow to the masters.  That attitude is pretty dumb, and is just the sort of blind short-termism that Mahrin pointed to on the other side.

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JoeTF
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Reply #346 on: March 21, 2007, 07:14:50 AM

Uhm, DD kills every support in the grid, so using is requires a lot of skill, unless it's your own fleet you want to burn. Besides, to my best knowledge they didn't use much DDing during the whole op.

On the Outbreak thingy, you're reading things that aren't there.
The point was they wanted standings for just few hours, which when you take into account logistics required with setting alliance and every ally's standings back and forth is pretty much pointless (and before you say "it's simple slider, remember how many FF incidents you got due to bad standings yourself:D).
All that was asked for is little longer commitment instead of drive-by shooting. I'm pretty sure if Outbreak said week, or three days they would get their +v no problem.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #347 on: March 21, 2007, 07:18:22 AM

Off-hour raids are not a sign of good pvp and are not a good sign for BoB.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 08:25:17 AM by tazelbain »

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Endie
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Reply #348 on: March 21, 2007, 08:23:30 AM

Uhm, DD kills every support in the grid, so using is requires a lot of skill, unless it's your own fleet you want to burn. Besides, to my best knowledge they didn't use much DDing during the whole op.

I read that they used it a bit, but that's not really what I meant, thus my use of the word "could".  Now that they can safely cycle titans at will, they've got a big advantage in certain situations (of which dread-centred pos warfare is one, as Evil Thug showed).  And the fact that they could time their DDing with not nuking their entire support fleet is what I meant when I talked about their great organisation.

Basically, I can't help but think that CCP consider the titan buff to be "working as intended", in that they couldn't fix their fleet/wing/squadron code to stop ultra-lag, so they've made large fleets pretty much suicidal when a titans are around.  Of course, that's up there with SWG's jedi design in the Stupid Ways to Balance Your Endgame stakes, but I doubt if they care much yet.  At least the new contract screen shows "jump scramblers" as an option.  That may rebalance things dramatically.

If anyone doesn't know what CCP did, they gave titans the ability to fit rigs.  Where, previously, the only in-game ways titans had been killed was to either do so before it hatched (LV) or edge-of-exploit (kill logged-off titans, as in ASCN or D2's cases), there was the theoretical danger that someone could deploy a large group of battleships using energy-draining devices to stop the titan jumping out, while also pounding it with someting like dreads to wipe its shields/armour/hull.  It was always unlikely, but just about possible, which placed restrictions on the use of such strategic assets.  Now, with the right rigs and fittings, a titan can reduce the recharge-time for its capacitors (which hold the space-mana needed to jump out) dramatically, to just under a minute, which makes holding it in place pretty much impossible.

As regards Outbreak, what i meant by saying Bob's attitude was short-sighted agrees with what you say about the difficulty of churning through setting standings: for the price of that effort they could have had Outbreak on their side for that set-piece, which (given, again, what Mahrin said) could very well have seen them slide rapidly through neutrality to Bob-aligned.  At the moment, the coalition seem ill-inclined to view such an act with detachment worthy of Realpolitik, and they'd have tried to get punitive on a group currently killing Bob quite happily when they get the chance.

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Simond
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Reply #349 on: March 21, 2007, 08:51:00 AM

Also, with the undocumented "Log off inside POS shields" change (exactly what it sounds like - log off inside a POS shield even with an aggro timer and your ship won't warp anywhere), Titans (and to a slightly lesser extent motherships) are now all-but-unkillable.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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