War

[sanctuary]

No. Yalson posts here as Setar. He's in BDCI. His writeups on weekly events were excellent on the MC forums, I think they got copy pasted onto SHC War & Politics forums.

[Sir T]

Originally Posted by trevorreznik
waagaa (ms) and shrike (titan) died this evening after goons/nc/etc got camped into poses all day

Just a taste of the, shall we say, totally inaccurate picture Trev paints in that thread. (We were not "camped into poses" at all and were in fact siegeing all over the place prior to that. Naughty trev)

But frankly the whole thread reeks of an alliance without a clue whats really going on. No wonder everyone realted in utter shock when Goons started publishing the accurate tower counts. Virtuosso seems to be the one guy with a clue.

Oh and for added hilarity

Originally Posted by Jake Noble
twds back and playin again should be interesting to see what comes out of that

Answer: Sadly for Jake, Not much. 

{edit} Oh god 

Originally Posted by Jake Noble
Titans had nothing to do with it at all, very few times where titans deployed in delve because twd did not like doomsdaying people because what is the fun in that for the fleet?

[Calantus]

I wonder if people read F13 forum porn somewhere else in the Eve universe?

Well on the SA and GS forums they occasionally talk about the time Jade Constantine came a visiting if that counts for you.

[Sir T]

Originally Posted by Jake Noble

Quote:
(11:18:56 PM) cflux: 230 capitals 8 titans moved to pr-, 390 in alliance channel today

Wow lets hope bob has actually woken up.

Hmm... 200 capitals in PR-... Now trapped in PR-

*strokes Beard thusly*

*logs in*

[LC]

Originally Posted by Jake Noble
twds back and playin again should be interesting to see what comes out of that

Answer: Sadly for Jake, Not much. 

If you were ever in a Qd or Dianabolic fleet, you would celebrate the arrival of twd as well.

[Arthur_Parker]

From his posting I got the impression Dianabolic was some kind of space Admiral Superstar Quarterback, LC, you saying that's not true 

[Llyse]

Originally Posted by Jake Noble
twds back and playin again should be interesting to see what comes out of that

Answer: Sadly for Jake, Not much. 

If you were ever in a Qd or Dianabolic fleet, you would celebrate the arrival of twd as well.

What or who is twd?

[Sir T]

What or who is twd?

TWD is the guy that designed much of their Fleet setups, that BOB still uses or used till very recently before they started copying goon setups wholesale (the "medium armour repper" BS setups are a good example). Hes also one of their better FCs. He designed their tournament winning setups (when they had Eyes on every one of the Opposition setups by various means so they knew how to counter them) Jake has been spreading the meme that TWD saved Delve by returning, and that TWD was responsible for the Successes of the MAX campaign.

The thing is that in Tourney 4 he designed one singular fleet setup for BOB, in my opinion as he didn't have the imagination to come up with multiple fleet setups without intel on the opposition. He then told everyone it was an invincible fleet setup. When that got murdered, by Jade Constantine of all people, with a fleet of 10 T1 Thorax cruisers, he was utterly humiliated and to this day even mentioning 10 thoraxes is enough to send him off on a rant. Since the ship setups he designed are regarded as pretty awful these days and the tourneys were won by looking at the opposition and he failed spectacularly when he could no longer see them anymore, its fairly obvious his successes in ship design were just because of the t2 gap and BOBs wealth rather than any genius in ship setups.

His alt Kookman was seen in delve for a couple of days but has vanished again.

[JoeTF]

We have seen many of out old FCs return, only to get into semi afk playstyle, so I wouldn't count on TWD being wonder miracle. Oh and contrary to what Sir T says, he was fucking good at both setups and running large fleets.

Anyway, without sov it's all about capitals and capitals are all about pure number advantage. Combined capital fleet of NC, PL, TCF, GF, _random_pubbies_ outnumbers BoB so much it's not even funny. That why we cannot deploy our capital fleet and cannot really retake delve while all of you are here. Got to wait till NC and PL go away to have a shot at it.

Edit:
Oh, and Jake N00ble is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Ridiculing him is like kicking a cripple.

[Thrawn]

I’ve got to imagine Goons will be very hard to remove from Delve once they get entrenched just the same as BoB was.  In our old space we were living across too many regions too far from each other and empire with too many easy chokepoints that just screamed to be taken advantage of.  We were fighting battles multiple regions apart on the same day.  You could take one system and we’d be cut off from entire regions for weeks without making a ton of extra jumps, or camp one beacon and put a halt to a lot of logistics movement to and from empire.

Once we’re packed into Delve though Goons should have plenty of sov 3 system redundancies for cyno beacons/jammers and jump bridges without the vulnerable mid points.  A system gets lost, the JB is just put up one system over. A beacon is camped to empire, I have 5 other options just a few jumps away.  You’ll also have Goons being more tightly packed in a smaller area instead of spread all over space not wanting to move from their “home systems” of wherever they were currently working out of.

I for one can’t wait to start ratting Blood Raiders.  At least until CCP fixes broken pirate sov. now that Goons live in Delve that is. 

[Sir T]

Oh and contrary to what Sir T says, he was fucking good at both setups and running large fleets.

Anyway, without sov it's all about capitals and capitals are all about pure number advantage. Combined capital fleet of NC, PL, TCF, GF, _random_pubbies_ outnumbers BoB so much it's not even funny.

Actually I DID say TWD was one of your better FCs (which frankly is like taking the most mobile person out of a bunch of cripples) And sorry, his setups were found to be sub par once you removed the BOB lag advantage and you were facing opposition fleets with equal gear etc.

As to the "waa waa were outnumbered" meme, of the people actually fighting in Delve, your side outnumbers ours c16000 pilots to c14000. You actually outnumbered us in the first few battles in J-L (for example, the first battle was 600 KFC to 500 us) and that was completely subcapital as ours were not in theater yet, and it was before the goons had fully deployed in any case. You still lost heavily. So yeah, "waa capitals" since you lost outnumbering us in battles not involving capitals. And oddly the first alliance to vanish from opposition fleets was Kenny.

So, whatever explanations make you sleep better, but doesn't really fit the facts. vOv

[trevorreznik]

ITT, TrevorReznik's words wound me deeply:

also for reference IGNE is one of the pubbie corps in goonswarm that does nothing except mine and just dick around, they're literally one of the worst three membercorps in goonswarm (dpg/loveu are in the running as well)

how was I supposed to know that f13 was igne!  my apologies, you guys actually post somewhat ok

what's that even from?  i post on a ton of forums now that gf.com was taken from me for the 4th time, and can't place it. 

It's from the "lol Bob is dead" thread in the English-speaking forum on AAA.

And, as a fleet member acting as a tourist in their corp forum, I can say that LOVEU contains some of the worst posters in Goonswarm.  Fortunately they're not the F13 posters as a rule, and they don't post in TWR or SGBS.  If they did they'd be in trouble.  As regards usefulness, LOVEU were probably worse than DPG and certainly worse than IGNE for years, but IGNE improved quite a bit in usefulness from November or so, while LOVEU probably have just about the highest participation rate per capita of any of the pubbie corps: usually pretty much the same number on ops as Mrchi/Battlestars which are much bigger, and make up a lot of the Blackops active members now.

One thing that strikes me in the AAA forums is that there are a few members there who know their shit.  Yalson, for instance, seems to know the mechanics as well as us, which may sound arrogant but is a big difference from the Bob forums.

Ah, dangit.  I'm no good at telling Loveu/Igne/Dpg/Video (haha they're gone!) apart, because their posting on gf.com was all terrible.  The only pubbie corps that really did anything prior to me getting booted were DS1 (built caps better and faster than GF) and I think ARSED was kind of useful  and Merch also, I don't really know.  Sorry if I hurt any feelings :V

Just a taste of the, shall we say, totally inaccurate picture Trev paints in that thread. (We were not "camped into poses" at all and were in fact siegeing all over the place prior to that. Naughty trev)

No this is wrong depending on your timeframe :)  When -A-'s CTA got over to Delve, it was around midday for me.  You guys had been shooting poses coming out for a while, and killed one last pos in J-L or someplace when -A- had gone to camp 319 for a little bit. Once we sorted out what was going on, we camped the J-L gate in qy6 for 4 hours, at one point going into J-L to shoot at some ships outside the pos shields.  The rest of that time, BoB was sieging with dreads (I never got a count) in QY6, and trying to bowl ships or something in J-L using motherships.  So for that 4 hour period during the day, all hostiles just sat in POSes and didn't do anything.  After -A- left, that huge J-L fight started and pretty much was BoB's death knell.    So yeah, 'all day' was a bad phrase because it implies 24 hours, rather than just the afternoon/daytime window I was thinking of.   

As far as I'm aware, that joint op was the only time since like day 3 of the delve attack when BoB deployed dreads in siege.

[JoeTF]

Oh and contrary to what Sir T says, he was fucking good at both setups and running large fleets.

Anyway, without sov it's all about capitals and capitals are all about pure number advantage. Combined capital fleet of NC, PL, TCF, GF, _random_pubbies_ outnumbers BoB so much it's not even funny.

Actually I DID say TWD was one of your better FCs (which frankly is like taking the most mobile person out of a bunch of cripples) And sorry, his setups were found to be sub par once you removed the BOB lag advantage and you were facing opposition fleets with equal gear etc.

As to the "waa waa were outnumbered" meme, of the people actually fighting in Delve, your side outnumbers ours c16000 pilots to c14000. You actually outnumbered us in the first few battles in J-L (for example, the first battle was 600 KFC to 500 us) and that was completely subcapital as ours were not in theater yet, and it was before the goons had fully deployed in any case. You still lost heavily. So yeah, "waa capitals" since you lost outnumbering us in battles not involving capitals. And oddly the first alliance to vanish from opposition fleets was Kenny.

So, whatever explanations make you sleep better, but doesn't really fit the facts. vOv

I'm refering to why you were able to steamroll entire delve unchallenged. Sure we lost few subcapital battles, but those are not the reason why you're rampaging through delve with your dread fleets and killing hundreds of poses.

Also, I appear to be one of apparently few BoB pilots smart enough to move all of my assets out of harms way, so I don't need tell myself anything to sleep well :)

[palmer_eldritch]

I don't understand the complaining that goes on about blobbing.

Politics and diplomacy, who you turn into enemies and who you turn into allies, are as much part of the game as shooting things.

[Thrawn]

Also, I appear to be one of apparently few BoB pilots smart enough to move all of my assets out of harms way, so I don't need tell myself anything to sleep well :)

You could always just take the Apple Boy route and give all of your assets (carrier, Sin, more) in PR- to a Goon to evac. who then laughs at you and takes your stuff. 

[trevorreznik]

I don't understand the complaining that goes on about blobbing.

Politics and diplomacy, who you turn into enemies and who you turn into allies, are as much part of the game as shooting things.

Far more part of the game, actually.  If people want a game where it's about 'pvp skill' they should go play a FPS. 

[Fordel]

Also, I appear to be one of apparently few BoB pilots smart enough to move all of my assets out of harms way, so I don't need tell myself anything to sleep well :)

You could always just take the Apple Boy route and give all of your assets (carrier, Sin, more) in PR- to a Goon to evac. who then laughs at you and takes your stuff. 

A Sin is one of those crazy faction ships, isn't it? 

[Thrawn]

A Sin is one of those crazy faction ships, isn't it? 

That's what I thought at first too, but after looking it's actually a very terrible black ops ship.

[TheDreamr]

A Sin is one of those crazy faction ships, isn't it? 

Gallente BlackOps I believe (ie. T2 cloaky, jumpy BS), similar kind of ballpark price tho

[Fordel]

Oh, that isn't nearly as terrible then.


Those faction ships seem to require donating several kidneys to the respective faction in order to get one.

[Sir T]

Sure we lost almost every subcapital battle

Corrected

But yeah the Sin is pretty awful from what I can see (never flown one though I can) To get a faction BS requires tons upon tons of mission running. But yeah Apple boy is a total and utter faggot and I had to laugh when he got burned this way! I had to deal a little with him in IAC and he caused nothing but problems.

[LC]

From his posting I got the impression Dianabolic was some kind of space Admiral Superstar Quarterback, LC, you saying that's not true 

Dianabolic is the guy who parked a mothership belonging to someone else (account sharing) on a gate at the same time every day. He didn't even bother setting up an emergency cyno. Surprisingly it took Red Alliance a whole week to put together a login trap to kill it.

http://www.killboard.net/details/164745/

[Arthur_Parker]

I remember that happening, King Leonidas is an alt of DB Preacher, or so goonfleet believed anyway, you saying Dianabolic got DBP's mothership killed?  DBP stopped playing just after that didn't he?

Note.  Some or all of the above may be incorrect, I only liked making isk in this game and tried to avoid undocking whenever possible.

[Murgos]

Just letting any Kenny lurkers know that you can pm me to courier your stuff out of pr-.

I will hold your information in the highest confidence.

[Furiously]

You can also send Katiri Furiously a contract (Item Exchange for 0 ISK) and I will have interbee deliver it to Jita for you. I'll let you know the cost for frieghtering it to Jita, once I know the size.

IF you want my references, my director has given me a title due to my honor and fairness.

[Endie]

^^^^ Katiri Furiously is, it has been shown, Bobby Atlas's alt account so you can be sure that you will get good treatment.

Actually Trevor is pretty close to right about the camped-in-POSes thing on the 12th, though "all day" is an exaggeration.  I was in that fleet for four hours before and during euro prime.  We had dominance through until early evening Eve time, then a large fleet with a very few Kenny but a large number of Exe and some other Barbies turned up and we were outnumbered for hours.

We sat in a POS to which they had the password, and were able to watch some of the worst (but completely legal - no whines here) pos-bowling ever performed, where a kenny mothership repeatedly landed 30km outside the shields due to consistently failing to enter the password correctly (virtually his entire fleet had entered it correctly, admittedly on their second try).  When he finally got in we promptly bubbled him and came within (absolutely literally) five seconds of killing him when he ctrl-Qed out, disappeared inside the shields 15 seconds later, and got probed out trying the repeated ctrl-q trick.

I got no kills that day due to us just holding back all evening, but I guess that I'm happy enough since it led to Waagaa and shrike reinforcing his reputation as the worst titan pilot in Eve.  It was also the second-last time we were outnumbered in Delve.  After the next day we worked out that we could engage heavily outnumbered by Barbie add-ons and win handily, and that was that.

[Endie]

Looks like Axiom Empire are the latest Kenny pet to rediscover their pride (or sense of self-preservation) and go Fuck Kenny.

Didn't they stay loyal all the way through the first war and Delve 1?

[Arthur_Parker]

JoeTF,  I'm no expert on this game but if most of your guys have assets trapped and your pets are starting to drift away, can you speculate as to what you think BoB leadership will likely do?  I'm surprised the goons have managed to stay focused enough to camp pr- for this long.

[tazelbain]

I'm not surprised.  Once corps get big and entrenched, the only resource that matters is morale.  The disbanding of BoB and the invasion of Delve is the greatest morale boast imaginable.

[Endie]

Sov update.  The charts on gf.com are kinda off, since they anticipate tomorrow's downtime, but I've been going through the sov data manually and it seems that Kenny have only four remaining stations in Delve.  Of those, one is now in a goonswarm-sov system and is awaiting tower-shotting.  One is sov zero, with five goon towers and no Kenny towers.  Two are Kenny sov 2, but neither of them has any kenny towers, so they will swap at downtime tomorrow.

In other words, unless I've cocked up my sums or Kenny secretly dropped some towers that have evaded notice for a week (Finfleet almost managed this last week but I spotted it and grassed them up  ), there will be no Kenny outpost systems in Delve as of downtime tomorrow.

Of the twenty Delve player-controlled outpost systems, eleven now have no Kenny towers left at all.  None.  Hellpurged.  Another one is largely in reinforced, and unless Kenny's prayers are answered and Bobby Atlas rides in on his white steed to save them* then it can probably be assumed that those towers are not long for this world.

Quite apart from losing two significant members of Barbie in two days, Kenny have now lost 150 members in four days.  That's just under one in twenty of their numbers.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, BNC seem to be losing members fastest, with RKK and Finfleet drifting downwards and Evolution and Dice holding pretty steady.  If I was to guess as to why those last two are bucking the trend, I'd suggest that Evol have Molle et al doing morale blogs work and still believe themselves to be the best (at losing titans lolol) while Dice can identify with their corp (which are unarguably the most competent in Kenny) and have for some time been slightly distanced from the alliance in their mindset (just look at the unveiled forums and logs).  That's a stage of alliance failure cascade, of course, so maybe I'm being optimistic on that one.

*For our American readers, this is irony.

[Teleku]

Does anybody have any idea how many Kenny towers in total are left in Delve?  Only chart updates we get are for Station systems.  I'm curious to see how many non station system towers we have to purge in order to prevent them from getting any sov 3 in any system in delve.

Also, why does everybody consider the Sin to suck so badly?  It actually seems like one of the more useful ones on paper.  Being able to uncloak and launch a crap ton of drones while blasting away, etc.  Even disregarding that, I'm not really seeing any overall weakness offhand compared to the other Black Op ships...

[trevorreznik]

Does anybody have any idea how many Kenny towers in total are left in Delve?  Only chart updates we get are for Station systems.  I'm curious to see how many non station system towers we have to purge in order to prevent them from getting any sov 3 in any system in delve.

Also, why does everybody consider the Sin to suck so badly?  It actually seems like one of the more useful ones on paper.  Being able to uncloak and launch a crap ton of drones while blasting away, etc.  Even disregarding that, I'm not really seeing any overall weakness offhand compared to the other Black Op ships...

1) it takes a huge amount of scanning to find the amount of towers, especially in the non station systems, so it's unlikely anyone really knows, but there was at least 500 pre invasion from numbers I've seen and what I remember from the last time GS scanned delve thoroughly
2) you don't want to have  a super expensive battleship be closerange to other things.  it gets tackled, a bunch more hostiles show up, and you die. 

[sanctuary]

Sins cost what 500M and have worse dps than a BC, have little cargo space for fuel and have lock times on the order of caps. They are shit. I bought a heap of them and Redeemers about a year ago assuming CCP would give em a buff 

Edit: found the links on SHC with Yalson's reviews: Linky

[setar]

No. Yalson posts here as Setar. He's in BDCI. His writeups on weekly events were excellent on the MC forums, I think they got copy pasted onto SHC War & Politics forums.

Thanks for the flowers -- there's quite a few more of those which I should post at some stage, I guess. Imagine my horror to see that there's no AARs on the -A- forum and virtually no discussion of politics and leadership -- as you can see from the discussion here, there's only a single thread in the whole forum that's being quoted ;-)

Getting used to it, though. Short of capturing the AAA directors and interrogating them it's going to be difficult to hack your way to better intel.

[Sir T]

By the way you can read the lot at http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=3725

In other news Kenny forgot to stront a tower in J-L that has been out of reinforced for 2 days. J-L, a system with a jaw dropping 50 towers in it at the start of the invasion, has been purged.