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Fabricated
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on: August 12, 2004, 09:03:19 PM


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Comstar
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Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 11:33:13 PM

Well that wins me Doom review award :)

Thanks, looks like I don't need to worry about buying a new video card justb yet.

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Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 11:58:38 PM

That is the worst rating scale graphics thingie ever (did we come up with that, or was it an independent cell?).

Maybe if we had a better rating system we could get on rotten tomatoes for games, so far it's getting a 10/10 for fresh (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/g/pc_games/doom_3/).

AOFanboi
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Reply #3 on: August 13, 2004, 01:54:41 AM

Why does Rottentomatoes try and do the job that Gamerankings already does so well? Stick to your movie review tomatoes, I say.

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Reply #4 on: August 13, 2004, 05:33:43 AM

Regarding the flashlight gripe...

If everybody wants a flashlight ducttaped to the gun or night-vision goggles since it is the future and, you know, a marine base, then why not just turn on all the fucking lights? Think about it. Sure, when it gets dark, it gets fucking dark, but that's part of the atmosphere. I will admit I have been annoyed by the dark at times, but I know why it was done and it was a good decision. If you actually were the marine on the base who went to find this scientist, you (a) probably aren't toting night vision goggles because you don't need them (b) aren't carrying around a roll of ducttape (c) aren't a miner so you don't need a fucking light on your helmet. Suddenly, all hell breaks loose and the power goes wonky. Lights go out. Hmm, no goggles, no helmet light, no duct tape. And a lot of frightening shit trying to kill you. And it's dark. Fuck. Now if you were playing as Splinter Cell in Doom 3 and could just crank on the bug mask, do you think it would be as fun? Would it even be a challenge? I suppose they could have thrown a roll of duct tape in a storage container somewhere, but this is a high tech base. They shouldn't be using duct tape to fix anything, right? I guess I'm in the minority on this, but I also don't play it for more than an hour at a stretch, so I suppose my frustration level with it never gets high enough to matter.

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schild
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Reply #5 on: August 13, 2004, 06:52:08 AM

Quote from: Ookii
That is the worst rating scale graphics thingie ever (did we come up with that, or was it an independent cell?).

Maybe if we had a better rating system we could get on rotten tomatoes for games, so far it's getting a 10/10 for fresh (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/g/pc_games/doom_3/).


Actually. The reason we're not on Rotten Tomatoes is because as a reviewer you need to have 50 games/movie (not combined, but seperate - so 50 of each) reviews in the can before you can even apply.

Edit: I think Doom 3 is garnering positive reviews because no reviewer wants to be the guy who "rails on Id." I expect we'll see the same shit being said when Half Life 2 comes out, even if it is just mediocre or crappy.
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Reply #6 on: August 13, 2004, 08:05:50 AM

Quote from: Soukyan
Regarding the flashlight gripe...

If everybody wants a flashlight ducttaped to the gun or night-vision goggles since it is the future and, you know, a marine base, then why not just turn on all the fucking lights? Think about it. Sure, when it gets dark, it gets fucking dark, but that's part of the atmosphere. I will admit I have been annoyed by the dark at times, but I know why it was done and it was a good decision. If you actually were the marine on the base who went to find this scientist, you (a) probably aren't toting night vision goggles because you don't need them (b) aren't carrying around a roll of ducttape (c) aren't a miner so you don't need a fucking light on your helmet. Suddenly, all hell breaks loose and the power goes wonky. Lights go out. Hmm, no goggles, no helmet light, no duct tape. And a lot of frightening shit trying to kill you. And it's dark. Fuck. Now if you were playing as Splinter Cell in Doom 3 and could just crank on the bug mask, do you think it would be as fun? Would it even be a challenge? I suppose they could have thrown a roll of duct tape in a storage container somewhere, but this is a high tech base. They shouldn't be using duct tape to fix anything, right? I guess I'm in the minority on this, but I also don't play it for more than an hour at a stretch, so I suppose my frustration level with it never gets high enough to matter.


Sorry, but just from the concept, this is an indicator of how weak the gameplay is to me. I mean, he's a fucking marine, right? You don't think a marine can hold a pistol and a flashlight and aim it well? I understand the gameplay mechanics of it, I just think it's fucking retarded. Hinging the gameplay on your players being a one-armed retard is bad. It lacks sense.

Not that I would play the game unless I got it real cheap, but good review that matches most things I've heard about the game, as well as my interest level in the game.

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Reply #7 on: August 13, 2004, 08:39:52 AM

I'm willing to venture that most marines would pee themselves dry if they experienced any part of Doom3 in real life - pee soaked fatigues might have an adverse effect on the ability to fire a weapon in the dark.

you know i'm right. You've tried it.

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Reply #8 on: August 13, 2004, 08:56:34 AM

Quote from: Arcadian Del Sol
I'm willing to venture that most marines would pee themselves dry if they experienced any part of Doom3 in real life - pee soaked fatigues might have an adverse effect on the ability to fire a weapon in the dark.

you know i'm right. You've tried it.


But with enough duct tape a good marine could make some new fatigues.
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Reply #9 on: August 13, 2004, 10:59:16 AM

Quote from: Soukyan
Regarding the flashlight gripe...


What kind of gimp can't hold a pistol and flashlight at the same time? I doubt the game would've suffered too much in terms of atmosphere if the weakest firearm in the game had a light attached to it.

Also, having night vision or a shoulder lamp doesn't ruin the atmosphere if you know what you're doing. Aliens Vs. Predator 2 was pretty fucking intense at times during the marine campaign, and you had both a shoulder lamp AND night vision. You just had a limited self-recharging battery for each.

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Reply #10 on: August 13, 2004, 11:03:44 AM

Quote from: Shockeye
Quote from: Arcadian Del Sol
I'm willing to venture that most marines would pee themselves dry if they experienced any part of Doom3 in real life - pee soaked fatigues might have an adverse effect on the ability to fire a weapon in the dark.

you know i'm right. You've tried it.


But with enough duct tape a good marine could make some new fatigues.


On deployment my section always packed an entire 40 cube box with Duct Tape of various sizes and colors and Toilet Paper.  This is in a ddition to the normal supply process.

Very rarely would you find a veteran Marine out in the field without ready access to either of those most important materials.

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daveNYC
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Reply #11 on: August 13, 2004, 11:11:41 AM

Didn't Aliens teach us that even in the future there is duct tape.
Arcadian Del Sol
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Reply #12 on: August 13, 2004, 11:36:55 AM

#1 most requested care package item:

baby wipes.
Its like a shower in a hand sized napkin.

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Fabricated
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Reply #13 on: August 13, 2004, 11:49:01 AM

Quote from: Murgos
On deployment my section always packed an entire 40 cube box with Duct Tape of various sizes and colors and Toilet Paper.  This is in a ddition to the normal supply process.

Very rarely would you find a veteran Marine out in the field without ready access to either of those most important materials.


You're a Marine? Awesome. What was your MOS?

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Soukyan
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Reply #14 on: August 13, 2004, 12:23:25 PM

Quote from: Fabricated
Quote from: Soukyan
Regarding the flashlight gripe...


What kind of gimp can't hold a pistol and flashlight at the same time? I doubt the game would've suffered too much in terms of atmosphere if the weakest firearm in the game had a light attached to it.

Also, having night vision or a shoulder lamp doesn't ruin the atmosphere if you know what you're doing. Aliens Vs. Predator 2 was pretty fucking intense at times during the marine campaign, and you had both a shoulder lamp AND night vision. You just had a limited self-recharging battery for each.


Ah, so then you have a battery that goes dead and you have two options: plow ahead blind or stand still while it recharges. I don't prefer standing still waiting for a battery to recharge. It breaks pacing and slows down what should be a constant intensity. But that's just my side of it.

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Fabricated
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Reply #15 on: August 13, 2004, 02:10:35 PM

Quote from: Soukyan
Ah, so then you have a battery that goes dead and you have two options: plow ahead blind or stand still while it recharges. I don't prefer standing still waiting for a battery to recharge. It breaks pacing and slows down what should be a constant intensity. But that's just my side of it.


It depends mostly on your playstyle if using the lamp or NV breaks the pacing. The headlamp can be left on for a while before going out but it doesn't provide too much light, while the NV lights everything up and drains battery life real fast. If you don't use it as a crutch you'll always have enough energy to be able to see.

Also, AVP2 had tossable flares that light up a decent area. Great for setting up a parameter or ransacking a room.

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Reply #16 on: August 13, 2004, 02:24:51 PM

Quote from: Fabricated
Also, AVP2 had tossable flares that light up a decent area. Great for setting up a parameter or ransacking a room.


That would be cool. Would be nice to see something like that in a D3 mod. Would've been really slick in the release version of the game itself.

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Rasix
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Reply #17 on: August 13, 2004, 03:56:50 PM

I'm having a hard time trying to bring myself to keep playing Doom 3.  Mostly because of the reasons brought forth in the review.  

Really, the "ooga booga" scares just get fucking annoying.  There are some scares that are well done, like when they levitate a body and fling it past you, or some body is flayed and pinned to a wall and starts making noise, or even some of the random voices you hear.  But fucking monsters jumping out of closets, wall panels and thin air gets goddamn annoying after the it happens for the 20th time on the same level.  My inner monologue starts to shout, "CUT IT OUT, YOU FUCKING PRICKS".  

And the darkness. Overly dark games annoy the piss out of me.  Luckily I downloaded the duct tape mod, so I use the machine gun and shotgun as lethal "anti-stupid design" weapons. Also, the lack of a secondary fire mode for any of the weapons is a bit disappointing. Makes them all rather one dimensional.

I'll probably just end up beating the game out of sheer force of will.  This will probably be followed by a swift uninstall and deletion of the isos.  

Of course, I'm glad that Doom 3 finally got me to install System Shock 2.  Man, they really nailed the atmosphere on that one.   Enjoying it much better so far.  I'll have to download one of the texture packs I think as the graphics are a tad dated.

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Reply #18 on: August 13, 2004, 04:11:35 PM

Finished Doom 3 today.  It's not deep gameplay, by any means, but it is a good multimedia presentation, showcases of a powerful engine, and has toleraby well done the gameplay.

Towards the end of the game, I had cultativated a certain amount of satisfaction in easily dispatching Imps with a point blank Shotgun blast or an artfully applied Plasma Rifle stream.    I had become so used to swapping between flashlight and weapon as I gunned down foes that I could actually anticipate their moves, making fighting in the dark fairly easy.

Also, the Soulcube kicks all kinds of ass.

Quote from: Soukyan
[Re: Flares] That would be cool. Would be nice to see something like that in a D3 mod.

Already done.

There's already about 45 different mods out.  Nothing too extreme, mostly weapon characteritics, graphics, or sound tweaks.   Many of them are just combinations of earlier mods.   The most innovative ones I've heard about were a Cell Shading mod (makes everything look cell shaded) and a mod that lets you spawn your own little security droid that follows you around.

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Reply #19 on: August 16, 2004, 05:30:17 AM

Hadn't checked the front page before posting my own review in the Gaming Discussion.

To recap here :

Doom3 fucking sucks.

Badly.

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Reply #20 on: August 26, 2004, 02:02:12 PM

The flashlight is for wusses anyway.  We didn't have a flashlight in Doom 1 or 2, and did we stand around with our thumbs in our asses hoping the lights would come back on?  No!  We let the hellfire and muzzle flashes light our way.

Also, we ate our carrots.  Kids today are just lazy.

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Reply #21 on: September 07, 2004, 04:04:50 PM

Quote from: Fabricated
Quote from: Soukyan
Ah, so then you have a battery that goes dead and you have two options: plow ahead blind or stand still while it recharges. I don't prefer standing still waiting for a battery to recharge. It breaks pacing and slows down what should be a constant intensity. But that's just my side of it.


It depends mostly on your playstyle if using the lamp or NV breaks the pacing. The headlamp can be left on for a while before going out but it doesn't provide too much light, while the NV lights everything up and drains battery life real fast. If you don't use it as a crutch you'll always have enough energy to be able to see.

Also, AVP2 had tossable flares that light up a decent area. Great for setting up a parameter or ransacking a room.


 I am glad you mentioned this. There's a nice little mom and pop MMORPG game called "Astonia 3" (made by some German game DEVs). In it the dungeons are dark. But players can toss into a room as many torches as they can hold. The torches light up the rooms, hallways, etc... while they use 2 hands for other things. It works perfect in AS3, and still keeps the mood 'scary'. If a little game like AS3 can do it, Doom 3 can do it. Perhaps ID Software can add this in their next Doom 3 expansion? :)
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Reply #22 on: September 15, 2004, 11:51:09 PM

Ok, I'll say it:  Doom 3 is yet another example of glamour over substance.  I was looking for the bloody Apple logo!

Doom 3 didn't accomplish anything new nor did it "wow" me the way next-gen games are supposed to.  The graphics were good...just not good enough to carry the snore-inducing fun-house on a conveyor-belt with limited interactivity or variances beyond strict linearity.

We all know this candy-coated pile of id Software's latest excretion was just released to tout a new engine but, unlike their previous engine advertisements they charge customers for, this game could not be carried by its aesthetics alone - the shortcomings were too many and too annoying.

Sensory deprivation is a great scare tactic but after it is acknowledged, it becomes annoying.  If the graphics were so great, why won't you show them to us?!  The hackneyed plot was shallow enough to insult a film-school dropout screenwriters' B-Movie plot and the complete and total lack of game progression choices enforces the futility of its conveyor belt design:

"Where do I go next??? Everything looks exactly the same!  Oh, there's no more monsters here so I'm guessing this isn't the right way...oh look: monsters over here.  I guess this means I'm supposed to got his way."

Frankly, I thought the game wasn't even worth the CD it was burned to nor the amount of disk space it briefly occupied on my hard drive.

id Software should stick to making engines and let more capable people design games for them.

The game's conventions were all utilized in previous titles (with better results) and the "Second Coming" hype that surrounded this product only further added to the complete disappointment in a subpar title wrapped in pretty packaging.

Here's my rating:
Don't Buy it,
Don't Rent it (HeXBox) and
Don't steal it...it sucks that bad.

"In olden times, people studied to improve themselves. Today, they only study to impress others." - Confucius
ahoythematey
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Reply #23 on: September 16, 2004, 11:01:44 AM

Eh...I think it could end up having some really decent mods.
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Reply #24 on: September 16, 2004, 08:52:27 PM

Quote from: Resvrgam
If the graphics were so great, why won't you show them to us?!


Perhaps your monitor brightness/contrast are set too low?  I don't think there was a single point in Doom 3 where there was actually zero light and nothing on the screen, even with no flashlight (I used it a lot at the beginning of the game, but toward the end I got comfortable enough with the dark areas that I didn't use it as anything but a club).  

With reasonable settings, at worst, the light was... subtle.  Dark enough to make combat a bit more challenging, but bright enough that you could navigate around and appreciate the atmosphere.  Much like (surprise surprise) the original Doom games, where there were a few really dark areas, but you could always find your way around by firing your chaingun until you saw spattering blood in the muzzle flare.

Mind you, if you've got a low-end machine and your monitor is set to low contrast, you'll probably see complete darkness in a few areas (low-end machines seem to render the shadows a lot darker, maybe because they're cutting corners on the lighting calculations).  Try playing it on a dual GF 6800 machine and then tell me how unimpressive the graphics are.

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Reply #25 on: September 17, 2004, 06:31:47 AM

Quote
Try playing it on a dual GF 6800 machine and then tell me how unimpressive the graphics are.

Oh fer crissakes.

Run it on a Pixar rendering workstation and then bitch about it, noobler!
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Reply #26 on: September 17, 2004, 10:47:04 AM

I'm just saying, is all.  Any game experience can be ruined by running it on inferior hardware.

And as for "strict linearity", how many FPSes have you played that had non-linear storylines?  Of those, how many didn't suck balls?  I vastly prefer a nicely-paced linear storyline to a "stumbling around in a labyrinth looking for the next cutscene, any cutscene, just tell me where you've put the next fun thing, dammit!" non-linear storyline anyday.

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Shannow
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Reply #27 on: September 17, 2004, 11:30:03 AM

Quote from: Samwise
I'm just saying, is all.  Any game experience can be ruined by running it on inferior hardware.

Good hardware doesnt make gameplay better.
Quote

And as for "strict linearity", how many FPSes have you played that had non-linear storylines?  Of those, how many didn't suck balls?  I vastly prefer a nicely-paced linear storyline to a "stumbling around in a labyrinth looking for the next cutscene, any cutscene, just tell me where you've put the next fun thing, dammit!" non-linear storyline anyday.


Howabout linear gameplay that is not just run through door kill monsters, run through next door kill more monsters, repeat..
Its Doom 1 gameplay with Doom 3 graphics where we've had 10 years to get bored of Doom 1 gameplay.

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Reply #28 on: September 17, 2004, 11:33:17 AM

I'm running the game on a P4 2.8 GHz, 1024 MB PC1066 RDRAM, GF 6800 Ultra OC'd and I've upped the gamma as far as the limits allow....still darkness.

Graphics do not necessitate a good game and since this is a rehash on other games that have come out a long time ago, only the graphics can be used to measure this game's quality....umm, that's not right.

Game's with convention's Doom3 Puff-Daddied:
System Shock 2:  I wonder if they "borrowed" the same moans from this game's zombies?
Aliens vs. Predator:  In space, no one can hear you yawn.
Half-Life: Helpless scientists and security personel...haven't I been here before?  Opening a rift to an alternate plane.....wait a minute.
PainKiller: Big Boss Monsters just aren't scary after seeing them in PainKiller several months prior.

I really shouldn't have the "been there, done that" feeling in a brand, spanking new title that costs $50+ within the first 15 minutes of gameplay.

If there was at least something new introduced: multiple story arcs (what happens if I send the distress signal vs. I don't send the distress signal?) or even better use of the lighting effects (ala Thief series: imagine being able to use the darkness to your advantage and hiding from the monsters to overhear things or get a drop on them?) there would be something redeeming about the game.  

Nothing about this game would justify it being anywhere but the $5 and under bin.  Upgrade my system for this?!  I don't think so.

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Reply #29 on: September 17, 2004, 11:35:59 AM

Quote from: Samwise
I'm just saying, is all.  Any game experience can be ruined by running it on inferior hardware.


My box is a 3Ghz P4 with 1GB of PC3200 DDRAM, two 80GB 7200RPM HDs, Audigy 2, and Radeon 9800XT. I'd say that's good enough to "enjoy" Doom 3.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Reply #30 on: September 17, 2004, 12:03:23 PM

Quote from: Fabricated
Quote from: Samwise
I'm just saying, is all.  Any game experience can be ruined by running it on inferior hardware.


My box is a 3Ghz P4 with 1GB of PC3200 DDRAM, two 80GB 7200RPM HDs, Audigy 2, and Radeon 9800XT. I'd say that's good enough to "enjoy" Doom 3.


You didn't make any clever "I can't see the cool graphics because it's so dark, har har har" comments, so I have no beef with you or your graphics card.  

I agree with your summary that Doom 3 is basically Doom 1 with a thick layer gloss.  That's what I was hoping for when I bought it, and I wasn't disappointed.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #31 on: September 17, 2004, 12:07:04 PM

I'll chime in just to say. I hate games I have to play at night. Unfortunately two of those, the Splinter Cell series and Hitman series, are two of my favorite franchises of all time.

Doom 3 was just meh in the fun department. I DEMAND storylines from first person games and 3rd person games unless the multiplayer is freaking incredible. Doom 3's Multiplayer was total shite.

Oh, and it's really really dark. I couldn't see the graphics. Har-har.

Oh, and it's a fucking engine demo. So meh, move on. There's more important things to talk about.

Oh, and Edit: I said "Oh, and" too many times.
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Reply #32 on: September 20, 2004, 02:59:12 AM

Quote from: Resvrgam

I really shouldn't have the "been there, done that" feeling in a brand, spanking new title that costs $50+ within the first 15 minutes of gameplay.


I have to point out that Doom *invented* most of thes FPS gaming conventions, and the other games copied *it*.  And Doom 3 is just a "re-imagining" of Doom.  So at worst, Doom 3 is copying Doom, which was partly the point of the game.

Beyond that, I will agree it was not particularly innovative, but I still thought it was a lot of fun, and had great graphics and some great levels.

Bruce
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