f13.net forums - Yarr, guildless!

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July 21, 2025, 05:41:01 PM

we're back, baby

After an ever-so-fun weekend of bullshit, the wife and I quit the guild we were in. If anyone cares, I'll rehash the story and details but that's not the point here.

We're an Alliance Hunter/ Druid duo on Alleria (PvE) with BWL & early AQ40-experience and we're looking for a guild that raids weekends in the evenings. (Fri & Sat mainly, if Sunday it needs to end around 11pm EST.) Both of us were former officers and channel leads so we know oure classes, but really aren't looking for leadership positions again right now. Anyone here a member of such a guild that could use us, or able to point us in the direction of one that could? We're willing to transfer, seeing as our old EQ friends have abandoned us to play with their RL friends & co-workers.

Hell, we'd even reroll Horde, probably. Tho the slog from 1-70 is daunting at this point to say the least, and she's not interested in playing on a PvP server.

Whisperwind Alliance here. I'm in a guild that is probably too casual for your tastes. We've always been too small for anything above 20-man. The desire has been there, just not the numbers. However, if you wouldn't mind slowing down a bit and since the expansion really did that to everyone anyway, let me know if you're interested. The people are great and there hasn't been any drama.....yet. There are still plenty of core players that are willing to cat-ass with the best of them. We have a couple lvl 70's already. wink

We have several family teams in the guild too. One family consists of a mother, father, and two daughters. Many times, they all play together at the same time.

The next problem would be transferring to an older server. I'm not sure they would allow it right now. Our queues have gone away since they offered free transfers, but we are still considered near capacity.

My guild on Proudmoore would be no good for you, but I'd like to hear the story.

Quote from: Azazel on January 30, 2007, 09:37:27 AM

My guild on Proudmoore would be no good for you, but I'd like to hear the story.

Drama is good. Plz provide a ventrilo mp3 a la Getcha.

Shield of Azeroth is a pretty good guild on that server. They are a bunch of Mac guys that came over from EQ for the Mac and play all hours of the day. I woulda joined their guild when they started, but they chose Alliance and I chose Horde.

My girlfriend has a character in their guild and they have something like over 200 people in the guild. Good luck!

Well, my guild is Horde, on a PVP server (The PVP Server?) and the only weekend night we raid is Sunday. So I guess we are not a good fit.

Oh yeah, GIVE US DRAMA DETAILS!!!

Quote from: Merusk on January 30, 2007, 09:13:14 AM

Was Alleria one of the servers that was (is?) offering free transfers to Farstriders. I moved there recently from Kirin Tor for free, and I love it. There's a couple guilds you could get into that would likely meet your raiding needs.

I don't have a guild, either, but then my BE has been level 6 since the day the expansion came out. I just wanted to put in my vote for the dirt on your old guild.

Well thanks all for the direction. Dren's guild sounds kinda fun, as we're not Uber or anything, we just enjoy raiding. It's something to think on. We'd been members of SoA back at release, but found it a bit cliquish. (One of our EQ friends was connected to one of the founding members.)

Since y'all asked, here's the 'dirt.'

My old guild was an amalgam of 2 guilds that got together to do MC, and found they worked well. I'd been in the initial guild for about 7 months prior to us deciding to merge, and had wound-up an officer in that time frame. Good guys all-around and really decent players who - for the most part - weren't prone to the usual lootwhoring a bullshit. We were focused on moving into the endgame and when I joined they were just beginning to run everyone through UBRS/ Scholo/ Strath.

The other guild was a "family" guild run by a guy and his wife, with a core interested in moving on to other stuff. This created some friction there, and at the merge most of his officers quit, because while the majority of us were ok with having folks around who just wanted to hangout, his officers wanted to be 'uber' and didn't see a point in keeping around those folks who "weren't any use."

So we merged, and my Gl and the other Gl took on co-leadership and most of us who were officers maintained positions and we began to take-out MC. We moved through MC and had it on 'farm' pretty quickly, and during that time my wife became the Druid officer, and ran the healer channel. That meant assigning buffs, determining who heals what tank, etc.

Well, this pissed off one of the other healers, who seemed to think she was better suited, and there was some small drama there in the usual petty bitchy way women can be to each other. The officers at the time agreed there was no way we wanted this priest being in charge, as she was pretty abysmal, and I recall it being mentioned that the only reason she was around/ drafted was that she was a dwarf.

Well, something changed about the guild after about 4-5 months. My old Gl really started to become focused on loot as well as pushing through to BWL 'and beyond' and wanted to do it ASAP.

Officer meetings began to become "well what does person "x" do for us." People began to get booted without notice because the Gls thought they were useless. We started recruiting any random person, just so we could always have 40 people in a raid. If, for example, we only had 3 rogues sign-up because the other 5 had real-life stuff to take care of, they'd go to Ironforge, pickup some idiot and guild him to fill out the raid that one week.

At some point along the way between March and September we got several players who didn't work well with my old guildies. They didn't like the guild rules, they didn't like the officers, but they did like the loot and they knew who and how to buddy up to people. They got-in good with the other GL's wife, and proceeded to skirt the line, and often crossed it. At first it was only 2 or 3 folks, but they began bringing-in friends and family until they were a decent chunk of the guild.

Inevitably with such haphazard recruiting cliques began to form. The GLs happily ignored this, as they didn't read guildchat, and only hung-out in the officer's passworded-room in vent. Nobody could talk to them without sending tells, and no leadership was being given to blend the group together.

Several times I, and other officers had expressed to the GLs that we weren't happy with certain behaviors. Lootwhoring, excessive cussing in /guildchat, general disrespect, taunting, breaking guild rules, causing problems in the venttrillo server. The response was usually, "Oh I don't pay attention to guildchat" or "well I wasn't in the guild channel, so I don't know, I'll talk to him and hear his side of things."

Later the response began to become, "well just turn off the channel or ignore them, that's what I do!" shocked

Asking why the hell they thought ignoring the guild was the best way to run the guild got nowhere. I began to get pretty damn frustrated. The truth of it was, they were so focused on doing the endgame stuff they didn't give a damn about anything else. So long as the raid was filled, nothing else mattered, not behavior, not respect, nothing. They knew if they clamped-down or booted-out the problem members, there'd be no way to field a full raid because the entirety of the clique would quit and they were scared of that fact.

Well, this past weekend was the end of it. On Friday several of these guys had been going at each other and other folks with, "That's Gay." and "You're gay" and dropping curses every 3rd sentence. That kind of stuff has always bothered my wife, so she asked them to stop it. They persisted, so she asked again, this time indicating that if she had to she'd squelch their ability to talk in the channel, as it was against the guild rules.

Well two of these asshats were having none of that. How dare she tell them what do do, so they come up with the brilliant, "So what, I guess you're gay since it bothers you so much." Her response was, "None of your business if I am or not, I asked you to stop so please stop." The reply was, "Ha, yep looks like you're gay." *plink* she squelched them, and of course guild drama explodes.

"Hey he was just expressing his opinion" "You don't have the right to do that!" "That's lame, I guess we can't say 'gay' in guild chat anymore." Two of the other officers on at the time backed her up, saying they agreed and they'd have done it themselves. This drove the two squelched idiots to /gquit. This started even more complaining from the rest of their clique, and at some point I told the most vocal complainant that if he didn't like the rules of the guild, he didn't have to say. "If you don't like it, you're free to quit" I think were my exact words. Well this caused two other people, one of whom was the husband of the aforementioned priest who had a chip on her shoulder.

Well this got the Gls to actually pull their heads out of the holes in the ground they were living in. The raids were in danger! 4 members (two tanks and 2 mages) had just quit, and I can only assume other folks were sending them tells complaining about the audacity of the 4 of us who were daring to enforce some kind of order.

Upon seeing that she'd squelched the first who who'd quit, my old GL begins yelling. "You cant just go squelching people. You have to run all that stuff by Thorhamer and I first." I was already angry about the asshats getting on my wife like that, but to then have the Gl essentially back them up made me see red.

My response was along the lines of, "That's crap and you know it. If it was your wife or thor's wife you'd have booted them yourself. Don't' sit there and tell me that my wife has to put up with this bullshit when you're not going to fucking lead the guild and your entire solution to all problems is 'just put them on ignore.' Ignoring people doesn't fix problems it lets them fester and if you're not going to let the officers fucking lead then just do away with us. I'm tired of this crap from you so you can find another fucking hunter and druid to go to BWL with tonight."

The wife and I then /quit out of the game and went to take an evening to cool off and spend some time together. I knew it wasn't over, and I'd probably pissed them off but y'know, i didn't really give a shit at that moment.

Well I was right about it not being over, the next day while she and I were leveling, I got a whisper from the other Gl asking us to come onto the vent server to talk. Now right before this, someone had sent a screenfull of tells to my wife from a L1 character calling her a "Whoremonger". She was upset and crying about it, and now I'm pissed as well.

Talking to the Gls, they asked how my day was, and I said lousy and when asked why said, "If some asshole called your wife a whore you'd probably be pretty pissed too." No response, awkward silence, and then they moved in to, "well we wanted to talk about yesterday." At first it started out pretty softball, with "well in a guild this size you're going to have a lot of personalities" and other such mollifying stuff.

As I listened, something about their tone bothered me but I couldn't figure out what it was. I realized exactly what it was, when they told my wife that some people didn't like her approach to things, neither in the healer channel nor in the way she handled officership and that she should back off a bit.

"You're just really blunt and we don't think people can handle your approach to things." In essence they were saying, "Stop being a bitch" That pissed me off even more, and I pretty much stopped listening to them at that point. These guys had done the math and decided that my wife and I were the problem because we were two and they were 4(who had quit) and about 8 others who might quit if we weren't "reigned in." These other folks weren't the problem, nor their own lack of concern about running a guild or addressing these issues prior to them being a problem. Nope, just the two of us.

So then they turned to me, and said, "and I don't ever want to hear that 'if you don't like the rules then leave' line ever again. That position stops here, we're not going to take that attitude any further.. " At that point I cut him off. I don't recall my exact line, but it was something along, "Well you can go fuck yourself then, because I'm done with this bullshit." Then I dropped out of Vent and /gquit.

So then they turned back on my wife and began to try to talk her out of quitting too. Healers being the rare commodity that they are, and competent ones even rarer I think they were having an "oh shit" moment. I don't know exactly what they said, but I kept telling her to stop listening to their crap and just quit already.

What finally did it for her was when they said they didn't want her to quit, but I was useless anyway and never did anything for the guild so I wasn't a big loss (Nevermind I'm the one that ran the DKP site because I'm one of two people who understood it, the other only being on rarely as he's a grad student working on his thesis.) She pointed out that I was always there to give advice on bettering specs, raid strats, do instance runs and give equipment advice, and that they should know better.

She logged out, and tried to calm me down until I pointed out they were manipulating her, trying not to lose a healer, and really didn't give a crap about her, personally, only the use she could be to them. After all, if they did give a damn, why were they saying one one side she wasn't right to get upset, but on the other that they understood her position and wanted her to stick around because "nobody else can do the job you do." She saw my point, logged back in and quit as well.

Now, I probably overreacted a bit and could have handled that vent conversation better. I may, in fact, be completely in the wrong on the early position and in my belief that those asshats needed to be squelched. However, I certainly don't feel that way after the I'll definitely be damned if I'll let anyone treat my wife like such shit, and then have them try to discredit me to her behind my back. So, as I said before, fuck them.

Sorry it's so long, and probably overly melodramatic. No, I don't record things in vent or /chatlog so there's no juicy tidbits for y'all to pour over. But that's the story, and whee isn't it fun.

That sounds like my old guild. Almost exactly. Except I went back for about a week as a normal member and sniped the leaders I disagreed with in /g until the whole guild saw what I knew and the guild collapsed. Good times.

Wow. Sometimes it really is shocking to see how people with such a lack of leadership ability are able to get a guild together to do anything. I can't believe they were able to find their own asses let alone run a guild.

Christ, it's a fucking game. You both should have quit that guild ages ago. And the game as well.

yeah sounds harsh...but I guess it's justified. Just let it go, I'd do the same shit if I were you. I never got along with the new guild merge I'm in last year, even though they were pals for life, I always seemed uneeded or just a clueless farmer cause I'm asian and I don't play in the same time zone. Which is why I don't have any regret quitting last year after falling asleep in a raid monday morning my time at 3 am and getting warned about 'not going to raid again if it happens 2nd time' I just said 'ummm l think I have better things to do' /gquit and cancelled my sub. The only reason why I'm replaying again it's because my friend in the guild re-subbed my account for free cause he needed the company to level his draenei shammy and got 'frozen out of raids' cause of too much RL work to do.

And to be honest, class officer and high ranking managing stuff like that is one of those stuff I hate in my MMORPG. I like to have fun, not to be drilled around like in an army while mowing down a boss HP bar with 39 other people and being told 'Sorry pal, we don't need <your class here> now...' . :( No offense..I don't spam gchat with gays and stuff, but I just find 40 man raids structure a bit too restrictive and boring. It breaks down the casual friendship, I remember me and my buddies migrated from Lineage 2 (we pvp a lot ...but we hated the grind lol) and rolled nothing but hunters and rogues in a server on launch. The first 60 levels was great, I soloed till my eyes go red on my hunter and hit lvl 60 in less than a month. Then we hit a gear upgrade wall. And people start quitting left and right cause they didn't have the right class and the guild can't raid without a warrior or a healer. We had 1 Druid.Lawl and everything just sort fall apart. :( Pretty disappointing way to end a game really, but that's just how end game is for me. Heartbreak

I find the "Your husband is useless anyway" spiel pure gold. They know how to lead people, those guys.

Nah, you didn't overreact. You could have quit way sooner without it being an overreaction.

Great story. Funny thing is that shit happens to so many "casual" guildleaders and also regular people. Your wife seems to have gotten in a little deep, emotionally though. I see the same thing in my guild where people get upset and cry and all that bullshit when their friends leave the game or guild or server.

My solution, though it might seem a little sociopathic is simply this: Fuck everyone who you don't know in real life. Play the game to have fun with one another, be friendly to others and so forth, group with them, joke around, have fun, but don't care too much.

There's a big line between your friend Bob who you go golfing with now and then and your Warcraft-friendship with Leggolaz the Hunter who you've never met but is apparently some guy called Steve (or was it Stewart?) who works in Engineering or something in Pawtucket. They can be really ncie people, they may be really cool people, but when it comes down to it, except in rare cases, onlne MMOG friends are disposable, transient and ultimately not worth tears.

And yes, these guys sound like asses. Delete that DKP server on your way out. tongue

The core of my guild are the four Scottish people I group with :

My Brother, my wife, a girl called Connie (who also has a new baby and therefore is similarly 'casual' ) and her husband, who both live in Glasgow.

Sure, there's a wealth of other people in the guild but they're 'less real'. That's how it works. It's really funny when the other guildies come onto the TS Server and can't understand a word we say.

Quote from: Ironwood on January 31, 2007, 03:16:08 AM

You people and your silly chewed-up English.

I pretty much refuse to take anything in WoW seriously. I can certainly be annoyed at people but I'll be damned if I get really pissed off over a stupid game because of other players (now, going into a frothing rage over dying 300 times in Ninja Gaiden or something is different). Every time I start getting angry over anything in game I just think, "You know, you could just log out and cancel your account, transfer your toon, or roll on another server and it would all be over and done and you could have fun again." Thankfully my guildies know I don't do this internet drama bullshit, so much so that my description in the guild roster is "Takes the Internet Seriously."

Merusk, I think you two would do well in our guild. None of that happens. Of course, we don't run Blackwing either, but certainly would if the opportunity came up. We do get into 20+ instances with the help of alliances with other guilds sometimes. ZF and AQ20 are our biggest conquests.

Of course, now, we are busy dominating the 5-mans in Outland. We can finish ramparts and the furnace within an hour each with no problem now.

I don't think your reaction was wrong. I think your decision to quit was late, but that's why I don't belong to guilds like that. :-D

If you decide to move to Whisperwind, let me know and I'll get you two in no problem. I'll PM you the website for the guild too.

Quote from: Azazel on January 31, 2007, 03:12:53 AM

Funny thing is that shit happens to so many "casual" guildleaders and also regular people. Your wife seems to have gotten in a little deep, emotionally though.

No, she didn't get too involved. I've been in a guild where the leader was in some sort of on-going feud with the leaders of another guild, and I've seen some screenshots of chats and the spam that he was subjected to, constantly; constant, pages upon pages, of outright swearing and veiled and direct insults will take a heavy toll on anyone, and you can't really guess at how much until you experience it yourself. It's really nasty.

My last WoW guild's drama also happened when the guild changed from "casual" to "raid-capable", and was also slowly over time. People started being focused on raiding and loot, the recruitment happened too fast, cliques formed, and one of them tried to take over leadership. Well, they actually succeeded, but when they reformed without the old leader, they lost the website, the DKP site, a sizeable chunk of the guild, and a few experienced raid leaders. They didn't last long.

/echo

Sadly, it seems to me that as a casual guild moves into raiding, there is a honeymoon period where the old guard, who all know each other, respect each other, and work together well start to succeed and have fun in the endgame as it was meant to be. Then, at some point, a combination of the leaders' natural greed and the native population of purple-chasing guild hoppers starting to invade creates a bad situation. At that point it takes a really uniquely gifted leader or set of leaders to resist the guild's eventual downfall.

Hopefully 25-man raids mitigate this somewhat by needing fewer warm bodies to fill out a raid. Who knows how it will all turn out though.

It also takes knowledge about progress, and a feel for how fast the guild is moving ahead; go too slowly and your raid-focused people will rebel, go too fast and your casual players will burn out trying to attend as many raids as everyone else. But, I guess, that's what separates good guild leaders from bad ones.

Problems happened with us at the transition from 20-man ZG to 40-man MC (guild ignored our previously-solid recruitment policies in order to get enough people in for 40-man), and also happened because once people got a taste of MC loot, the "need to raid" process inevitably moved forward and we had to progress to BWL etc. faster than some of us wanted to, else we'd lose some of the good raiders.

Wow. That is some tasty guild drama. At times I think it would have been interesting to blog the inside goings on when I was part of an "uber" guild. You saw this type of stuff (although really for me, none this bad) sporadically from an officer or a certain clique, but our leadership was probably the most solid part of the guild. I think I've posted some of the crap that went on with my guild here the past, but it all pales to that.

It's interesting to get a somewhat inside look the whole husband/wife dynamic as relates to of all things.. a game.

Recently, I've found the perfect guild for me. No raid aspirations. No requirements other than you don't be a douchebag. No, "you must have this spec" horsecrap. Some scheduled events, but they don't care if you attend. Helpful folks but also people that understand some people just like to do their own thing. Heck, there's level 69 that has spent the last 2 days helping lowbies run instances; most people I know would be sprinting toward the end. And there's people on when I play. Casual and mature, I didn't think that type of guild existed expecially when every guild listed on the WoW boards in my server had "raid or end game" somewhere in the description (well, there was one or two other casual guilds listed, but one was REALLY small and the other had some serious douchebag issues).

I hope you find something you can enjoy with less of the drama. There's a lot of raid guilds on my server (Shu'halo horde side) and MOST seem to be pretty decent folks. There's an Oceanic guild that seems to have a lot of vocal jerkoffs on the boards, but that's about it.

Biggest drama in our guild happened about 6 months back -- the guild had gotten pretty big, and the original group of 10 or so that formed it were missing the more tight-knit feel from the beginning. They also felt that people were complaining they were "cliqueish" (who the hell was complaining that, I don't know) because the five of them were generally off doing 5-mans together. I always found them to be ready to help when I needed a hand, but there's always an asshole somewhere.

So they turned over leadership and the guild bank, and formed a small guild of their own. We had some back-and-forth over leadership (someone was more or less handchosen by the outgoing leaders, and a few asshats felt that wasn't the proper way of doing it. Of course, everyone in the guild had the utmost respect for this guy and that's why he was chosen didn't seem to register. Nor did the "We had to hand it to someone, you can have a fucking election if you want for a permanent position, we just handed it to the guy that's going to win that anyways" seem to sink in.

Most of the guild ignored it. We still see them on raids, and basically very little's different except for guild tags. But we're a really laid back guild anyways -- except for about three people who are all about "appearance" and shit.

God I love WoW drama. Some people are such idiots. Good on you Merusk for leaving. It can be hard to leave a guild some times but I think you will be better off in the end. I wish you guys played Horde and liked PVP, would love to have members like you, although our guild chat might be a bit to "intense" for you guys. It can definitely get a little balmy in /g some times. Anyway, I wish you and the wife the best of luck in finding a guild that fits you guys.

Well Merusk sorry to hear about all that. In my experience playing with you you always seemed like a level headed guy. Of course your wife wasn't running around with us at that time :-D but still I don't blame you for leaving (or defending your better half regardless of the circumstances).

I agree with IW. There doesn't need to be that much emotional energy sunk into A GAME unless it's something like professional sports where it's your career, etc. Sounds like you had a lot of unfun for something that is supposed to be an escape route to "fun".

I find it all sorta pitiful really. I enjoy WoW, but I play almost exclusively alone. The reason being that I just cannot stand having to wade through the shallow end of the gene pool just so I can get better items for my characters. I admit I'm probably on the extreme end of the spectrum as far as my patience level for douchebaggery goes, but I deal with enough of that in RL. Paying 15$ a month to voluntarily expose myself to it is absurd.

My guild is just the WoW reformation of the UO guild I first joined in 2004. It's very casual, with peak concurrency in the low twenties and everyone just goofing off and bullshitting in Ventrilo as they level up. The leader is like level 47. We can stay a smallish guild doing random five-man instances forever, if it means avoiding bullshit.

We had this one level 60 priest join. Oh my god, a high-level priest. She came in all weird and defensive, telling us she was female IRL despite no one asking and asking if we could believe it. When we told her we had several women in the guild already and that it wasn't odd at all, she started going on about how she deserved to be promoted in the first five minutes because she was level 60 and supposedly uber at PVP.

I'm an officer. I threw her the fuck out of the guild on the spot. She can go find some catass raider guild hard-up for healers and female contact and run her bullshit there.

I'm convinced raiding, or more specifically the type of people it attracts and the demands it places upon its participants, is destructive to a guild, or even a social community in general. I'm not going to raid in Burning Crusade. If the arenas get old, I'm going to quit; the stress and time waste of raiding is simply not worth the few moments of enjoyment you get from killing a boss or getting some purps.

I probably did get a little too emotional with the crying, but when it comes down to it I was hurt and had put up with too much bullshit over the course of 2 months with this guild and probably should have quit long ago. I didn't warn them before I squelched them. I just said " That's it" and did it. They were being assholes about it and I'm not going to put up with them taking shots at me on a personal level in the guild chat when I simply asked them to stop after I had been trying to ignore it and got tired of it. Everything else that Mer said was right though. I wasn't even being a bitch about it. But oh well, as Mer said fuck them. It pissed me off the way they talked about Mer and how they didn't even give a shit about him /gquitting no one even said shit in gchat after he did it.. as for the PVP thing.. it's not that I don't like it.. It's just I like to have fun and not worry bout being ganked by an upper lvl every 5 mins while trying to quest or do something.

Whoa! It must have been bad if it got you to start posting here.

J/K :-D

Welcome. Busting out on the scene with a rant about a MMO? Perfect introduction.

Come on over to SWC Horde.

Quote from: ajax34i on January 31, 2007, 07:40:28 AM

Quote from: Azazel on January 31, 2007, 03:12:53 AM

Funny thing is that shit happens to so many "casual" guildleaders and also regular people. Your wife seems to have gotten in a little deep, emotionally though.

Mate, if there are tears, then it's too deep. The moment a bunch of people act like cockmonkeys, you say "Fuck you cunts, I'm out of here. Have fun with your drama and bullshit."

...

Welcome Naraa! :-D Simply put, don't ever care about online people too much. WoW has more guild drama than any other game I've seen, so whenever dealing with anyone you don't know in real life, always keep it in the back of your head that you don't know these people, and when people act fucked-up, just walk. You'll never know them in real life, anyway, so fuck their bullshit.

As for the rest, I think I'm going to start a character on WUA's server..

Thank ya for the welcome and yes it did piss me off enough to post on here :-D. Mer told me to read what he and every one else posted cause I told him why I was reluctant to join guilds on Alleria again. I do try to keep in mind that I will never meet those assholes. Mer pointed out the same thing and I did try to move on after the original asshole that started all this called me a bitch in whispers. I said he was out of line then threw his ass on ignore and let it go. It was the GL going off on me and then that same asshole using an alt to get me, and the bullshit in vent was what finally broke me. I know I have to be a little more thick skinned for a game like this and it's my mistake for thinking I left this kind of bullshit back in jr high, but as I've said before I had been putting up with a lot over time and this was just the last straw and I realize it wasn't worth it now. I ended up reporting the asshole.. doubt anything will happen though knowing blizzard.

I think there's a tendency, because hope springs eternal, to think that a guild that's gone bad can have its course corrected back into what it used to be. I know that I held out hope for our guild way past the reasonable point.

At some point, reality slaps you in the face and you realize that you are never going to be able to go home. In my case, all the officers had quit, and I was the guild leader. I announced my intention to disband the guild and have a little afterparty in Stormwind, and there were actually still people saying "no, please, we can recruit, we'll come back stronger and better than evar!!". Sure we can, after having lost 75% of the guild, including ALL of both the originals and guild hoppers.

YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID,

"STOP SAYING GAY FOR THE NEXT 30 MINUTES NOW OR YOU WILL BE SILENCED FOR 60 MINUTES."
"STOP SAYING GAY FOR THE NEXT 30 MINUTES NOW OR YOU WILL BE SILENCED FOR 60 MINUTES."
"STOP SAYING GAY FOR THE NEXT 30 MINUTES NOW OR YOU WILL BE SILENCED FOR 60 MINUTES."
"STOP SAYING GAY FOR THE NEXT 30 MINUTES NOW OR YOU WILL BE SILENCED FOR 60 MINUTES."

Then people would have listened.