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Topic: War - Press Event Week (Read 44035 times)
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Arthur_Parker
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Internet Detective
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Mythic had the gaming press around again, expect a lot of information to be released from tomorrow onwards. I'll update this thread as it happens, first off a newish interview. Warhammer Online: WarCry Q&A Answers by Josh Drescher, Assistant Producer Questions by Dana Massey WarCry Network:: As this is the first time we've spoken to you about Warhammer, can you give our readers the basic overview of what you're trying to accomplish with this new game? Josh Drescher: Achieving a player-base of 6 billion people (settling for MILLIONS of players is SO two years ago). Creating the single most enjoyable entertainment experience humankind has ever known. Total world domination. Stuff like that. Oh, you mean IN the game. Just... uh... edit out the "world domination" part. We're trying to accomplish a great deal with WAR. We're going to bring the Warhammer IP to life in a way that fans have never seen before. We're going to take all of the lessons we've learned from DAoC and build a game that will excite our existing fan-base, and bring RvR to the masses. WarCry Network:: What has the experience the team gained from Dark Age of Camelot contributed to the product both in terms of technology and people? Josh Drescher: We know - in the core of our very beings - that RvR, executed properly and presented in an engaging way, is irresistibly exciting and fun. DAoC proved that to a huge number of players, and was an awesome success as a result. We've got a much larger platform (and more standing in the industry) this time, so we'll be bringing that experience to a significantly larger audience as a result. In terms of people, we benefit seriously from the loyalty Mythic enjoys from its employees. We have a team that's being led by people who've worked together for five, ten years or more. We speak the same language, we've learned the same lessons, and we know how to get things done. As for technology, WAR is a very different beast. To be sure, we've taken the best elements of DAoC's tech and built upon it in some cases, but we've built most of the core systems from the ground up. We're not making Camelot II, so it only makes sense to start fresh in a lot of ways. WarCry Network:: Obviously, Electronic Arts must have been impressed with Warhammer's chances to buy EA Mythic. What has it meant to the development of this title to have EA behind you? Josh Drescher: We get a lot more free food. Donut availability is up a staggering 250%. And we get lots of free swag. Oh, and a cool new logo. (Note from the Community Weenie, Sanya: SOME PEOPLE get lots of free swag. Some of us have so far scored a hat. You suck, Josh.) Other than that, it honestly hasn't impacted us very much at all. The acquired us because they looked long and hard at what we do and how we do it and decided that they had faith in those processes. EA has no interest in stepping in and messing with things that work well. WarCry Network:: Ever since it was first announced, WAR has been one of the most talked about MMOs in development. Are you worried that you might suffer from 'overhype', in that fans are expecting more than you can realistically deliver? Josh Drescher: Not in the slightest. Anything that gets a proverbial "foot in the door" and gets a player to take a look at WAR is great for us. Players aren't stupid. They know that no one is ever going to deliver their perfect, personal vision of EXACTLY what they want in a game. At the end of the day, players just want to have a really good time and it's our job to make sure that's exactly what happens. So, to be honest, it's only "overhype" if the experience we deliver isn't engaging and enjoyable enough to get them to stay. WarCry Network:: Warhammer is not the typical serious fantasy intellectual property. For those who do not know the IP, can you explain some of the things that set it apart from a more traditional medieval fantasy setting? Josh Drescher: Yikes. That's a doozy of a request. Do you have a week or three? Warhammer isn't about beautiful people rising up to defeat a great evil for the last time. It's about grim, superstitious people frantically attempting to breed quickly enough to make sure the Empire will have enough soldiers a generation from now. It's about REALLY believing that your scarecrow can tap into the dark power of Chaos and that that bird over there really IS talking to you. It's about bitter, working class people with chips on their shoulders and soccer hooligan mushrooms that like to break things, crush things and cover things with poo. It's about posh dandies with swords and drug-addled aristocrats with a thirst for blood and RIDING ON THE BACK OF A DINOSAUR. It's about a war that will never end.
It's packed to the brim with social commentary, weird historical references, strange European in-jokes about archery, manic aversion to the color blue (in places), sex, drugs, slapstick comedy, grim reflection on the human condition, religious fanaticism and just about everything else you can imagine.Warhammer is a fully-realized hobby experience. It's books, miniatures, comics, pen and paper RPGs, PC games and - of course - Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. Warhammer is the last hobby you'll ever need. WarCry Network:: Each race you chose for Warhammer (Dark Elves, High Elves, Greenskins, Dwarfs, Empire and Chaos) carries a distinct flavor. What types of players do you think each one will appeal to? Josh Drescher: Smart, savvy folks who like having a great time. Honestly, I think it's impossible to guess what will attract certain players to certain races or careers. I, personally, have hated elves in every other game I've ever played, but I'll be rolling a Dark Elf on launch day because I just love the crazy Lord Byron-in-and-evil-opium-den vibe. And they look really cool. And... well, you'll have to wait a bit longer to see what we're doing with their careers, but I think people will be very excited. WarCry Network:: Individuality is something people crave in life and increasing in online life. What has EA Mythic identified as things that promote individuality among characters both artistically and internally? Josh Drescher: Well, we'll probably leave people's internal sense of individuality alone. Our early tests at completely rewiring the human psyche were promising, but not quite perfect. As for differentiating yourself in the game, we'll provide a full battery of customization options from the get go. As you progress through the game you'll earn trophies, trinkets, banners, tabards and on and on that will help your character stand out as unique and interesting. This is, of course, on top of all of the incredible armor and weapons that you'll be obsessively collecting. WarCry Network:: Many have longed for the game that lets them play start to finish bathed in the blood of other players. Can you go from start to finish without fighting NPCs? And if so, what keeps it varied and fun? Josh Drescher: You can essentially play through the game doing nothing but RvR, but it won't be the most efficient means of advancing. Similarly, you'll be able to play through only sticking with PvE content, but will suffer from the same inefficiency. We want players who tend to prefer one play type or the other to have the opportunity to focus on their preferred style, but we also want to encourage them to get out there and enjoy the other side of play as well. There's so much goodness all around, it would be a disservice to not nudge people in the direction of enjoying it all.WarCry Network:: There are also those who fear their enemies and prefer to fight computers. What do you offer them? Josh Drescher: Two things: A fully realized, deeply engaging PvE experience. A chance to "get their feet wet" in RvR in a way that won't force them into gank-fest bloodbaths right off the bat. Many people who dislike PvP feel that way because - frankly - modern PvP can be awful. We want to show them that it can be something more than completely lawless anarchy or boring "capture the windmill" gags that repeat endlessly and serve no real purpose. WarCry Network:: Artistically, many fans have noted that there is an artistic similarity to World of WarCraft. Can you talk about your art direction and how you explain the similarities? Josh Drescher: Our art direction draws heavily from the quarter of a century that Games Workshop has been honing the look, feel and style of Warhammer. That's really our ONLY source of inspiration because it's such an unbelievably vast and awesome resource that - quite frankly - there's no REASON to look elsewhere for ideas. As for explaining why any of our Noble Competitors are also producing games that bear possible resemblance to Games Workshop's Warhammer IP, you'll have to ask them to explain those similarities themselves. WarCry Network:: RvR in Dark Age of Camelot is well respected, but can feel a touch chaotic. What are you doing to make RvR in WAR feel more like a fantasy battle and less like a video game? I ask specifically with regards to pacing and player tactics. Josh Drescher: War (and WAR) is a chaotic experience. We're certainly taking care to create an RvR experience that is intuitive and fun, but we absolutely DON'T want it to feel like a turn-based, tabletop strategy game. Players will make tactical choices - both as individuals and as groups or guilds - prior to entering combat that will dictate a great deal of how the engage that particular battle. Sometimes, it will make sense to gear yourself towards absorbing damage and defending, other times you'll want to crank out the highest amount of damage possible and just go straight for an enemy's throat. You'll have options that will help you make decisions like that with great ease. With that in mind, it will still be up to players to understand their character and how to play it properly. WarCry Network:: Warhammer, the IP, is a bit more adult than most. What rating are you shooting for? Specifically, where do you intend to push the envelope and are there things we should not expect to see you do?
Josh Drescher: "T for Teen."While we intend to push more envelopes than a steam-shovel in a post office, we have the utmost respect for the ESRB and the good work they do and would never dream of doing anything that expressly violates their rules. WarCry Network:: At an event last year, the press was told that Warhammer Online is ultimately about WAR and not focused on building stuff. Nonetheless, are there options for crafters, gatherers and other support times? What do you have in mind? Josh Drescher: There is a crafting system, but it's a SECRET at the moment. If you give Paul Barnett a couple of glasses of fine champagne (Veuve Clicquot would probably do), however, he may spill a bean or two. Sanya Thomas: Note from the Weenie: More like a red herring or two. Paul is mean. WarCry Network:: A problem people have with most MMOs, including WoW, is that high end content often, despite their best efforts, requires huge time commitments. What are you doing to ensure players can experience epic content without wasting an epic amount of time?
Josh Drescher: First of all, you don't restrict the epic content to the highest end of the game. Players should feel like they're part of the war from the moment they first enter the world.
Second, you make success in the end-game reliant on how players everywhere else in the game are doing. Your actions and efforts from day one will have an impact on players in the highest levels of the game.
Third, you present an end-game experience that isn't overwhelmingly difficult to get to, but that requires a lot of effort and skill to master AND that is fun to take on repeatedly. Most players in WAR will have no problem getting to the highest tier of content in the game, taking part in city capture and defense and so forth. But that final tier of content is enormous in scale and complexity. The battlefront will be moving constantly, your homeland can come under siege at any time, your city can be burned to the ground.
We WANT players to get to the end of the game and we want them to have a great time getting there.WarCry Network:: Finally, can you let us in a bit on your testing plans as they stand today and where you're shooting to get this on the shelves? Josh Drescher: Sure. We're already in closed beta and have been for a couple of months now. There will be a few other phases of testing prior to us turning the general public loose on the game, but I can say with absolute confidence that we're going into Open Beta on - OW!!! For some reason, Sanya just crushed my fingers with a large wooden hammer. So I guess that's another one of those secrets. For now. Sanya Thomas: Weenie here: Part of the reason I just crushed Josh's hand is because people hear "open beta" and think that means THEM. It does not. We are not planning to have a complete FFA where anyone with a modem can log in. We will have a beta period later this year where thousands of people who acquired beta keys through magazine and website promotions can log in. For details as they come up, people should subscribe to the newsletter or bookmark this link and refresh it often.
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eldaec
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I think I'm right in saying the only new things there are... There is a crafting system ..and... you make success in the end-game reliant on how players everywhere else in the game are doing. Your actions and efforts from day one will have an impact on players in the highest levels of the game. On crafting I would hope they are going to at least pull in the siegecrafting from daoc. The rest of it always ends up being interesting only to people with more time than me. On success being connected right across your realm, I hope they make good on that. The alterac valley model doesn't cut it if the game is about RvR imo.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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Riggswolfe
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I am so salivating over this game. It's sad but true. I love the IP and DAOC had its problems but still was fun so I have hopes this will be DAOC++ with the IP done right. I'm a little concerned that it is T for Teen but willing to look the other way if the game is good enough. (Warhammer really should be M though.)
They had me when they made a Witchunter class.
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Signe
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Muse.
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Why should it be rated M? I've never played the games or anything so I'm just curious.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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Megrim
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Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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Boobies/blood. Or Blood/boobies. Mix and match as you will. Which is why i'm quite sceptical at hearing them call for a Teen rating while maintaining the ip's integrity.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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tazelbain
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tazelbain
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It is proof that they are going for WoW numbers in spite any statements to the contrary.
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"Me am play gods"
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Riggswolfe
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Why should it be rated M? I've never played the games or anything so I'm just curious.
The IP is billed as grim fantasy and it is. In the novels (and even in the pnp game) it's not uncommon to hear about children being mutated by chaos and burned at the stake. Cannibalism, inquisitions, being skinned alive, hideous mutations, human sacrifice, plaques causing dead to rot in the street, all of this kind of stuff is in the IP. This isn't Warcraft which sanitizes itself, this IP is brutal and violent. The orcs eat their captives most times. Witch hunters burn people at the stake.
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Signe
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Muse.
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That sounds LOVELY! I think I want to be an Orc Witchhunter! mmm... toasted missionaries.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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Endie
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That sounds LOVELY! I think I want to be an Orc Witchhunter! mmm... toasted missionaries.
I have played PnP Warhammer for years: since the first release of the tabletop WHFB in fact - and in every game of the RPG I've played I've said something like "no, this time i shall not be a witchhunter, following my dark destiny and exercising grim judgement over the unholy abominations of chaos, no matter how seeming innocent their hosts. This character shall be a cheeky lad, forgiving of temperament and with a jolly twinkle in his eye, well-disposed towards all and sundry and averse to judging others. Within a few weeks it always becomes an exercise in fniding the most efficient route through the advancements to the Witchunter advanced class. It is simply too much fun playing a character in a Reverend Ian Paisley accent shouting "burn the unholy abomination of a spider-baby!"
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My blog: http://endie.netTwitter - Endieposts "What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
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Riggswolfe
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That sounds LOVELY! I think I want to be an Orc Witchhunter! mmm... toasted missionaries.
Unfortunately I don't think Orcs have Witchhunters. Unlike Warcraft they really are the badguys and not misunderstood nature lovers or whatever. Dwarves and humans have witchhunters. Elves are too connected to magic to really be a witchhunter if memory serves. And I'm like Endie, I always become a witchhunter in the PnP. It's just....fun.
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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eldaec
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Just before anyone gets carried away here...
In WAR, witchunters are Empire (order human) light tanks/melee-dps.
This doesn't prevent you screaming at the monitor while doing an Ian Paisley impression ofc.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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Flood
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So. Excited.
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Greet what arrives, escort what leaves, and rush in upon loss of contact
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Nebu
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While I still think that DAoC is the best pvp mmog out there, I have my reservations about WAR. In my mind, the two aspects of DAoC that have made it a quality game are both going to be lost in the creation of WAR; a) the complexity inherent to combat mechanics and b) the sandbox-like feel of RvR. If they make PvP too much like WoW in an attempt to appeal to the masses, they will lose the very qualities that made DAoC a unique PvP MMOG.
While I think it may be a good business decision to do so, it would come as a dissapointment to any of us that have stuck with Mythic all these years.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Hoax
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l33t kiddie
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All the right things were said in this interview except that T for Teen is bullshit. Suddenly I sense that witch elves will find some clothing. Hell are they just removing one of the four gods entirely? I dont even see how Nurgle could be in a T for Teen game...
There was some promising stuff but really we've heard this type of shit for over a decade from every MMO pre-beta hype machine ever. Remember Horizon's promises? Or the hundreds of games that never even materialized?
Also re: DAOC being the best pvp mmo out there.
Why do people ever say that? Balance in DAOC was worse then SB's balance, and compounded by the fact that you needed a buffbot and getting a character to max level took like 8 times as long as it did in SB. I'm not even saying SB is the best MMO pvp, but jesus h christ. DAOC had so many fucking broken mechanics it makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Or are we just going to overlook the first six months or w/e of launch?
The fact that Mythic is involved doesn't make me excited about the pvp gameplay, I'm hoping they rip WoW off in terms of how the game flows, keep positionals and make skill chains actually viable. I hope they absolutely ransack GuildWars style and substance of hotkey skills. You know, skills with actual tactical implications beyond root/stun/mez/snare/dot/dps.
But really, if Mythic can pull of this statement: "We want to show them that it can be something more than completely lawless anarchy or boring "capture the windmill" gags that repeat endlessly and serve no real purpose."
They can fucking have my soul.
If I was in the CB right now I could tell you if WAR will suck or not. All I need is the answer to one question:
Is the system in place and fully actualized for their tiered BG RvR system that creates a pvp experience somewhere in-between Planetside and SB? If it is not fully open to the testers at this very moment this game is fucked. DOA.
To this day I have no idea how WoW lucked into such balanced pvp when hunter's didn't even have talents toward then end of OB. But Mythic is not Blizzard. If their house isn't in order on the whole RvR experience right now, with months of true testing time and the rest of the game being built up around that system...
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A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation. -William Gibson
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Nebu
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Also re: DAOC being the best pvp mmo out there.
Why do people ever say that? Balance in DAOC was worse then SB's balance, and compounded by the fact that you needed a buffbot and getting a character to max level took like 8 times as long as it did in SB. I'm not even saying SB is the best MMO pvp, but jesus h christ. DAOC had so many fucking broken mechanics it makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Or are we just going to overlook the first six months or w/e of launch?
If you're talking the first year of DAoC, I'd agree with you. The remaining 4 years since they have made many strides in correcting their mistakes. Right now on the classic servers, the balance is pretty damn good if you consider all the classes available. The DAoC of today is almost an entirely different game than the DAoC at release. This gives me the most hope for WAR. While not perfect, Mythic has shown the ability to learn from and correct their mistakes.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious
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ya, I wanna play a nose picking gobling. Seriously.
But as to RvR -- zerg on zerg fun is not fun. If they bring any of that AOE-mez/stun/dot bullshit it'll be curtains fast. Mythic's got a lot of fixing to do. Some fundamental HRose-sized redesign on the RvR. And I wonder if there's not too much groupthink there to do it. Or, if too many good people haven't already left (Lum, MattFrior).
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tazelbain
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tazelbain
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Josh Drescher: You can essentially play through the game doing nothing but RvR, but it won't be the most efficient means of advancing. Similarly, you'll be able to play through only sticking with PvE content, but will suffer from the same inefficiency. We want players who tend to prefer one play type or the other to have the opportunity to focus on their preferred style, but we also want to encourage them to get out there and enjoy the other side of play as well. There's so much goodness all around, it would be a disservice to not nudge people in the direction of enjoying it all.
Some sort of mechanic like Vitality bonus but one bar for PvE and one for PvP?
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"Me am play gods"
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bhodi
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No lie.
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or like guild wars, PvE to unlock skills or abilities for PvP, and the reverse.
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tazelbain
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tazelbain
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ya, I wanna play a nose picking gobling. Seriously.
But as to RvR -- zerg on zerg fun is not fun. If they bring any of that AOE-mez/stun/dot bullshit it'll be curtains fast. Mythic's got a lot of fixing to do. Some fundamental HRose-sized redesign on the RvR. And I wonder if there's not too much groupthink there to do it. Or, if too many good people haven't already left (Lum, MattFrior).
Well, making the whole game 95% frountier seems like a pretty big redesign. I hate the zerg, but I very worried about boring combat. So CC, pure support, and stealth is gone. That leaves Melee, DPS, and hybrid support. Its going to take A.net/MTG level of creativity make sure that is boring. And nothing I have seen shows me they can break the diku rut.
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"Me am play gods"
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waylander
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If you're talking the first year of DAoC, I'd agree with you. The remaining 4 years since they have made many strides in correcting their mistakes. Right now on the classic servers, the balance is pretty damn good if you consider all the classes available. The DAoC of today is almost an entirely different game than the DAoC at release. This gives me the most hope for WAR. While not perfect, Mythic has shown the ability to learn from and correct their mistakes.
The DAOC of today, on classic servers, is a place where you are level 50 and RR5+ or you are not. Someone who is RR5+ and tricked out with gear will own a base level 50 unless that RR5 guy is an idiot who bought his account recently. Battlegrounds are horribly boring, because its the same thing over and over. The frontiers are too large, fights are too short due to 1-3 hit deaths, and the level and gear grind to get to 50 is absolutely horrid unless you come to the game with friends. In short, the DAOC of today has bypassed the true new player coming to the game in more cases than not. I'm not looking for WoW v2.0 or DAOC v2.0, but I sure as hell don't want to feel like the game play is like the current incarnation of DAOC.
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eldaec
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Josh Drescher: You can essentially play through the game doing nothing but RvR, but it won't be the most efficient means of advancing. Similarly, you'll be able to play through only sticking with PvE content, but will suffer from the same inefficiency. We want players who tend to prefer one play type or the other to have the opportunity to focus on their preferred style, but we also want to encourage them to get out there and enjoy the other side of play as well. There's so much goodness all around, it would be a disservice to not nudge people in the direction of enjoying it all.
Some sort of mechanic like Vitality bonus but one bar for PvE and one for PvP? More likely, it's easier to complete different grinds in pve and rvr. The straightforward xp grind will clearly not be efficient in rvr battlegrounds. But no doubt rvr will advance you on alternate track a la daoc realm ranks.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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tazelbain
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tazelbain
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Josh Drescher: You can essentially play through the game doing nothing but RvR, but it won't be the most efficient means of advancing.
But no doubt rvr will advance you on alternate track a la daoc realm ranks.
Doesn't that conflict.
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"Me am play gods"
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23646
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That sounds LOVELY! I think I want to be an Orc Witchhunter! mmm... toasted missionaries.
Unfortunately I don't think Orcs have Witchhunters. Unlike Warcraft they really are the badguys and not misunderstood nature lovers or whatever. Dwarves and humans have witchhunters. Elves are too connected to magic to really be a witchhunter if memory serves. And I'm like Endie, I always become a witchhunter in the PnP. It's just....fun. Orcs are not the bad guys in WH -- they just live to fight, including with each other if there aren't any non-greenskins around to bash on. Dark Elves and Chaos, on the other hand...
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Venkman
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Any level-based PvP is awesome when, a) you're at the soft-cap; and, b) can bang out alts by the truckload with your dedicated friends.
DAoC grew and then contracted to its appropriate size. That is not the number WAR seems to be shooting for. So they have to grab more players than DAoC has, by an order of magnitude it seems like. They won't do that with alienating PvE and RvR mechanics that require fulltime grouping and acceptance of copious grinding to hit a level cap. There are definitely things to like in DAoC, but you can't compare the endgame you enjoy now to the process the players need to go through to get to that fun. As long as WAR fixes that problem, it'll be good.
I am excited for WAR. But they need a higher bar than what DAoC is today.
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eldaec
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Josh Drescher: You can essentially play through the game doing nothing but RvR, but it won't be the most efficient means of advancing.
But no doubt rvr will advance you on alternate track a la daoc realm ranks.
Doesn't that conflict. Not if you also get a small and unreliable amount of xp from rvr. Just like daoc. In daoc.... RvR gives you a small about of xp and a large amount of rp. PvE gives you a large and reliable about of xp and no rp. xp is necessary to advance. rp is helpful but not essential. The most effective way to advance is to do both, but mostly you want to pve and then rvr.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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eldaec
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Posts: 11844
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But as to RvR -- zerg on zerg fun is not fun. If they bring any of that AOE-mez/stun/dot bullshit it'll be curtains fast. Mythic's got a lot of fixing to do. Some fundamental HRose-sized redesign on the RvR. And I wonder if there's not too much groupthink there to do it. Or, if too many good people haven't already left (Lum, MattFrior).
Zerg on evenly sized zerg was always what casual players of daoc consistently identified as the most fun thing. Hardcore rvr players objected to it because most of them built their playstyle around not having to communicate with non-ubers. People have suggested that clever ways need to be thought up to keep the sides close enough to even, and that future 60 v 60 combat might not involve all 60 people being in the same place (the cat herding aspects might require coordination over a wider area), and that is fair enough. But for the largest group of players who survived daoc pve, the biggest attraction of rvr was always about being part of a community effort. For a great many people relic raids were the most fun thing in daoc (server crashes permitting). Arguing about cc is all very well (yes, collision detection is obviously better if it is possible). But RvR has to be about war rather than skirmish, or you'd be better off building Guild Wars 2. In other news, a screenshot of a wizard. And another one.
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« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 03:25:33 AM by eldaec »
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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penfold
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1031
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I've been reading Gotrek and Felix, and other WH novels recently. I may have to break my non MMOG policy and have a look at this, if only for exploration, artwork and fluff. I can't say the mechanics of the game interest me, as i expect they will just be a barrier in the way of my exploring the entire world.
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Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8044
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That sounds LOVELY! I think I want to be an Orc Witchhunter! mmm... toasted missionaries.
Unfortunately I don't think Orcs have Witchhunters. Unlike Warcraft they really are the badguys and not misunderstood nature lovers or whatever. Dwarves and humans have witchhunters. Elves are too connected to magic to really be a witchhunter if memory serves. And I'm like Endie, I always become a witchhunter in the PnP. It's just....fun. Orcs are not the bad guys in WH -- they just live to fight, including with each other if there aren't any non-greenskins around to bash on. Dark Elves and Chaos, on the other hand... Orcs are the badguys in that Orcs choose to fight on the side of chaos most of the time. They also have barbaric practices like cannibalism and such. If you mean they aren't the bad guys in the "brains behind Chaos" way then you're right. Much like in LOTR they are basically bloodthirsty foot soldiers and that's about it. The Orcs in Warcraft were peaceful shamans who were corrupted by demons and basically forced to fight. ( A simplification but more or less true.)
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8044
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*drool* Witchhunters as Melee DPS. Sign me right the hell up! (If they'd made Witchhunters as tanks that would have killed the game right there for me.)
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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Not if you also get a small and unreliable amount of xp from rvr. Just like daoc.
In daoc.... RvR gives you a small about of xp and a large amount of rp. PvE gives you a large and reliable about of xp and no rp.
xp is necessary to advance. rp is helpful but not essential. The most effective way to advance is to do both, but mostly you want to pve and then rvr.
It's actually a tad more complicated. If we go with the current rules: RvR gives a lot of xp per kill, but you have fewer kills. PvE in safe zones gives steady, reliable xp. PvE in RvR zones gives the best xp in the game. The best loot in the game is either available from a) crafters, b) instances easily done by a group or less, c) in a PvP zone easily done by a group or less. This is why I keep saying that with a group, the barrier to entry is ridiculously small. Grinding xp in an RvR zone takes about 15h played to go from 1-15 and all of the equipment can be bought off merchants with the money you make xp'ing or from running an instance or the labyrinth. The big catch is that you need friends to get outfitted, leveled quickly, and to enjoy RvR. Without help, it's a pretty unfun experience.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8044
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Now I just have to hope it doesn't have crazy system requirements, though honestly the screenshots lead me to beleive they are going the WoW route.
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"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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Now I just have to hope it doesn't have crazy system requirements, though honestly the screenshots lead me to beleive they are going the WoW route.
I would honestly think that to ensure quality large-scale RvR that they would have to keep the rquirements low. One of the biggest issues in DAoC is that there are many ways to exploit lag during PvP. Then again, assumptions like this have gotten me into a lot of trouble with regard to mmogs.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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