Battlestar Galactica (spoilers/speculation)

[Merusk]

Finally, where do the final Five resurrect, if at all?

Nowhere anymore, it seems.  I'd be pissed I never got to check it out.

Thing is, how did the cylons ever know it was the same conciousness that got resurrected?

How do they know they don't end up trapped in a box filled with water while some new cylon was created with all their memories?


I couldn't be a cylon, because there's no way I'd be down with the whole 'don't worry, we'll resurrect you' shit.

Someone watched "The Prestige" once too often.

It's an interesting question, though, and one that's not going to be covered by BSG.  What IS it that makes you you.  If I can download you into a machine, is it really you or is it Memorex? 

[Triforcer]

I thought the episode was pretty good, but that Baltar thing actually annoyed me. It was like he was delusion, trying to find anyone who could become his flock. And it all came out of nowhere, no precedent. And how does it make sense? I though Baltar saw a connection between Cylon and Human? So he wants to drive a wedge to cause a civil war between centurion and skinjobs? To what end? Humanity's on the brink of getting below the sustainability line. There's going to need to be intermingling of the species. So subverting the security force may be a nice plot device for future battles, but how's that help the premise of the show? Maybe I'm missing something.

I actually thought it was perfect.  Like the analogy about the scorpion that bites what's carrying it, even though the scorpion will drown.  Baltar does shit like that because he has to be stirring shit up, even if it doesn't benefit him. 

[Raguel]

stupid question:

I haven't yet watched this episode, but we if add the "final five" to the regular Cylons, do we get a total of 12 or 13? The reason I ask is that Boomer/Athena is "8", and I re-watched 4.8 and no one even brought up the fact that model 7 is unaccounted for (1,6, 8 are rebels, 3 was boxed, and 2,4,5 are the "evil empire").


edit: wow, that was pretty a-holish of me.    I'll watch the episode first and then trash it, lolz. 

[Abagadro]

It's just that the final five aren't all at the end of the sequence.

1: Cavil (Dean Stockwell)
2: Leoban (Kara stalker)
3: D'Anna (boxed)
4: Simon (black dude)
5: Aaron (suicide bomber dude)
6: Multiple hotties played by Tricia Helfer
7: Unknown Final 1
8: Boomer/Athena/etc.
9: Unknown Final 2
10: Unknown Final 3
11: Unknown Final 4
12: Unknown Final 5

[Raguel]

yeah, that's the logical conclusion, only it doesn't make a bit of sense. (Which is why I edited my post, heh). 

edited: grammer is gud.

[Jayce]

Finally, where do the final Five resurrect, if at all?

Nowhere anymore, it seems.  I'd be pissed I never got to check it out.

Thing is, how did the cylons ever know it was the same conciousness that got resurrected?
How do they know they don't end up trapped in a box filled with water while some new cylon was created with all their memories?
I couldn't be a cylon, because there's no way I'd be down with the whole 'don't worry, we'll resurrect you' shit.

Someone watched "The Prestige" once too often.

It's an interesting question, though, and one that's not going to be covered by BSG.  What IS it that makes you you.  If I can download you into a machine, is it really you or is it Memorex? 

I think the same problem occurs for teleporters a la Star Trek.

[Venkman]

They never really addressed it on Trek.

I like Dan Simmons' explanation of "you" from the Ilium/Olympos series, where they employ quantum teleportion. If I recall correct, the Morovecs explained the human mind as a "quantum state wavefront". Of course, they were also using Brane holes to move people around, instead of digitizing them (which happened to another group of people and which was exposed to actually kill the folk and spawn a copy of them)... something through some research I still don't quite get

[MrHat]

What series? That sounds interesting.

[tazelbain]

Finally, where do the final Five resurrect, if at all?

Nowhere anymore, it seems.  I'd be pissed I never got to check it out.

Thing is, how did the cylons ever know it was the same conciousness that got resurrected?

How do they know they don't end up trapped in a box filled with water while some new cylon was created with all their memories?


I couldn't be a cylon, because there's no way I'd be down with the whole 'don't worry, we'll resurrect you' shit.

Since no one is given a choice if they are a cylon, the question is what you do if you discovered that you were one. Since the alternative is permanent death...

[Samwise]

What series? That sounds interesting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rkFrxNgfshwC
http://books.google.com/books?id=SazKHwAACAAJ

[HaemishM]

Ah, fuck, I didn't like this episode. Some of the battle scenes were ok, but the whole "But you don't know you're one of them" line just drove a spike in my eyeballs. Worst... red herring... ever. The Baltar scene with the Cylon raider was funny as hell, but out of place in the midst of the battle. I keep coming back to the same problems with the series, the way things are done in the worst of places. Roslin is busy talking to the hybrid during a battle instead of bunkering down. Baltar is just left wandering around the ship. The wounding of Baltar (in his side, no less - how very Christlike) was such a bit of hamfisted allegory. Like Darniaq said, the previews for next week were more entertaining than the show itself.

[Jayce]

Looked like his belly to me.  And leaving aside the fact that he got a wound somewhere in the vicinity of his midsection, nothing else about the whole situation was Christlike in the least.

If not that, then to what was the allegory?


I agree the red herring was rather cheap.  Unless it turns out not to have been a red herring, but no writer ever seems to go for that sort of double-double cross.

[Margalis]

I thought the red herring was rather well-done.

Also I was hoping Roslin would just let Baltar die. That would have been so delightfully evil.

[Samwise]

I loved the red herring.  It could only have been better if Roslin dropped dead from shock before Deanna said "lol, psych."

[HaemishM]

Looked like his belly to me.  And leaving aside the fact that he got a wound somewhere in the vicinity of his midsection, nothing else about the whole situation was Christlike in the least.

Ummm, what? You didn't notice the way the blood that was dripping down seemed to bleed off of both sides of the table almost as if from his hands? As if he had bleeding stigmata? Maybe I'm just looking for too much cheap allegory, but combined with all the nods towards Baltar becoming a kind of Joseph Smith character this season, it was just blatant to me.

[Jayce]

Looked like his belly to me.  And leaving aside the fact that he got a wound somewhere in the vicinity of his midsection, nothing else about the whole situation was Christlike in the least.

Ummm, what? You didn't notice the way the blood that was dripping down seemed to bleed off of both sides of the table almost as if from his hands? As if he had bleeding stigmata? Maybe I'm just looking for too much cheap allegory, but combined with all the nods towards Baltar becoming a kind of Joseph Smith character this season, it was just blatant to me.

Yeah, I sort of think you're looking too hard.  I took the blood running off as just gravity working, and a cinematic way to show us when it stopped and started because of the bandage being on or off.  Being hit in the gut was a necessary detail - extremities would not have seemed dire enough, and surviving a chest or head shot would have been hard to sell.

[Venkman]

The wound was from front to back, hence covering it with gauze wasn't doing much anyway. It seemed to me like a reference to Jesus getting speared by Longinus as a final act before death (and Baltar's mumblings after she removed the gauze seemed suspiciously like "why has thou forsaken me" without the God portion), followed by the whole sequence at the end being the death portion. I wouldn't be surprised if it took them 3 days from jumping back to Adama to catching up to Galactica.

The rather blatant religious stuff is starting to bother me in a way the really inyourface overt stuff from Matrix 2 and 3 did. We get it already.

[Numtini]

I knew the belly wound made me think of something!

Isn't the whole spear thing the foundation of some Christian mystery cults?

[Samwise]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny

[Riggswolfe]

Ok, my thoughts on the episode:

1) Roslin's redemption meant little to me since I despise the character with every fiber of my being.
2) I'm glad Baltar didn't die. He's a dick but he's also the most interesting human character in the show.
3) Adama's "About time" was one of his best lines yet.
4) My two favorite moments of the episode were all Deanna:
a) "They're going to destroy the hub? That makes this much better!" <breaks Cavil's neck while Boomer runs like a little girl.>
b) "You're one of the final five" Roslin looks horrified "Psych!" I was LMFAO for real at that scene.

[Samwise]

3) Adama's "About time" was one of his best lines yet.

I found myself desperately hoping he'd say "I know".   

[Jain Zar]

Ok, my thoughts on the episode:

1) Roslin's redemption meant little to me since I despise the character with every fiber of my being.
2) I'm glad Baltar didn't die. He's a dick but he's also the most interesting human character in the show.
3) Adama's "About time" was one of his best lines yet.
4) My two favorite moments of the episode were all Deanna:
a) "They're going to destroy the hub? That makes this much better!" <breaks Cavil's neck while Boomer runs like a little girl.>
b) "You're one of the final five" Roslin looks horrified "Psych!" I was LMFAO for real at that scene.

Its back to me not disliking her but understanding where she is coming from.  They brought her back to the light.   And she had a DAMNED good reason to let him die. 
Baltar rules.  I am honestly surprised he didn't die.  I kind of think he is the dying leader and not Roslin. 
There isn't much Adama does that isn't best ever, though. 
Yes, Deanna rules.  She was annoying on Xena, but here she is totally  all the time.  And hotter too.  I'm not sure what they put into the water up there where they film this, but they gotta start selling it to the masses.  I'd buy a whole bubbler for it.  Hell, just send it right into my veins.

[Raguel]

For some reason, of all the minor characters that have died, the only ones that really bothered me were Billy's and Roslin's religious advisor (and I can't even remember her name, lolz). For some reason I remember her fondly.

I'm beginning to think Baltar's not sane... 


So, before 6 went psycho and started the civil war, I'm sure Cavil said the final five didn't have multiple copies ("lines" was the word he used I think). I'd understand that if the "final five" were actually the last five made (or ironically the first five, but mind-wiped from the other 7), but somehow model 7 is unique and 8 is not. That's actually minor compared to the magic virus and skinjobs in general   , but whatever.

[Tale]

but somehow model 7 is unique and 8 is not.

The 'boxing' of Deanna seemed to have a precedent (the cylons knew what it was). Could 7 have been a boxed line, or perhaps a line that never made it out of beta?

[MrHat]

It's certainly feasible.  When they ressurected her she mentioned something about being the only one now.

[Samwise]

It's certainly feasible.  When they ressurected her she mentioned something about being the only one now.

I think she meant that she was the only 3.

[Merusk]

Oh for Fuck's sake.

No new Galactica until 2009 Talk about drawing shit out.  Whee.

[Margalis]

I hate this trend where a "season" is actually disconnected sets of episodes. In the past 2-3 years I've gotten like 12 eps of The Shield.

[Lum]

In this case it's actually because of the writer's strike; what we're watching now was written before. Also, tomorrow's episode was meant to be a series ender if necessary. Although if the spoilers that I've seen are correct... oh boy. You think you're pissed NOW. I'm hoping it's misdirection on Moore's part.

I'd post it with spoiler tags, but we don't have them. And trust me, you'd be pissed.

[Margalis]

Spoiler below:

The fifth cylon is the Galactica itself.

End spoiler.

[Merusk]

...

 

[MrHat]

lol.

What.

[Raguel]

Hah. The only thing that could make me more mad would be an appearance of Jar Jar as a Being of Light or something. I still chickened out and didn't read all of Margalis' spoiler tho. It might actually make me less upset, and I can't have that. 

[HaemishM]

What? 2009? Shit, there's a good possibility I won't be able to generate enough interest in myself to watch it by then. And if Lum is correct about tonight's episode pissing me off, it's very likely.

[Nevermore]

I suppose it's possible they could do something that stupid, but it would fly against all the 'rules' they've spent all this time setting up with regards to how the Cylon hierarchy is set up.