Battlestar Galactica (spoilers/speculation)

[Evil Elvis]

Evil Doctor bit was too spontaneous. If they had built up the key element in earlier episode it would felt better. As it is, it felt like the entire situation pulled out of the air.  Why are there refuges anyway? The entire damn fleet is refugees.

That's BSG's biggest problem with the stand-alone eps; they're too stand-alone.  The Adama-Hooker episode from way back could actually have been a decent, if they would have put some foreshadowing to the callgirl/black market in some earlier show(s).

[Yegolev]

I agree with that.  Also, I said almost from the beginning that the doc had probably done it.  Pretty transparent plot there, could have been from pretty much any sci-fi show ever made.  Shocking in 1930 but not so much today.

[Edison]

Why are there refuges anyway? The entire damn fleet is refugees.

I was under the impression it was people coming to watch Baltar's trial, but I don't recall if that was expicitly said or not.

[Lum]

They're from the ships that were left behind and/or broken down on New Caprica.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Camp_Oil_Slick

[Yegolev]

Don't forget the one or two that were lost when traveling through the star cluster.

[Lantyssa]

Don't forget the one or two that were lost when traveling through the star cluster.

There weren't any civilians to recover from those, though.  The hasty exodus didn't give much time to sort out the logistics of who goes where, either.

[Tebonas]

There weren't any civilians to recover from those, though.  The hasty exodus didn't give much time to sort out the logistics of who goes where, either.

They evacuated all those ships before they went through the cluster and left them with a bare minimum crew. So all those people had to stay on other ships and were never able to return to their (now lost) ships.

[MrHat]

I did notice that Roslin and her aide were commenting on Crazy Caprica 6 and her talking to no one.  Maybe they'll notice the same thing w/ Baltar and think something is up.

[Yegolev]

If they didn't ask themselves these questions back in Season One when he was fucking his lab table, they probably aren't going to call him on it now.

[El Gallo]

Loved the last episode.  Loved Chief's come to Jesus moment, the portrayal of class problems in the fleet, and Balthar's past and exploitation of such to garner sympathy and foment dissent.  I'm a union guy, so I guess that is pretty unsurprising, but I think I would have liked it anyway.

Chief for president.

[Yegolev]

I am of the opinion that Baltar was making it all up.  Evil genius and whatnot.  Not much chance of his story being verified at this point, though, so I'm not sure it matters in the end.  In either case, what is his motivation for stirring up trouble other than simple spite?  Yet another play for a position of power, I must assume, or perhaps attempting to gain public sympathy in preparation for his trial.  I thought it was a fine episode, if somewhat predictable plotwise.

[tazelbain]

He wants to the whole affair as troublesome as possible in order to cut a deal.  But Baltar doesn't know about Capraca Six being on board.  Just when it looks like Baltar is going to get his way, she's going to sing to cut the same deal as Athena and pwn Baltar because she's still pissed about the break up.

[El Gallo]

I think Baltar is probably telling the truth about his past, but I agree that he is just using it to stir up shit to save his ass/bring us to salvation (which are basically the same thing in his mind).  He probably actually sees himself as the saviour of the underclass at this point, but I remember from one of the New Caprica flashbacks that he was shitting on the union when he was President, so he obviously doesn't really care.

[Abagadro]

My memory is fuzzy but didn't Baltar used an "appeal to the common man" as his campaign hook back when he was running against Roslyn so this really isn't anything new (assuming I'm not misremembering)? So in that case you have someone who either: 1) believes it or 2) (and more likely) is just exploitative and uses populist messages to get what he wants. Being in jail allows him to play the martyr and stir up shit.

[Yegolev]

Doesn't the underdog always appeal to the common man?  Seems like a typical political play to me.  He's not going to be able to sway the aristocracy, such as they are, so what are his options?  Need more Zarek.

[Abagadro]

Doesn't the underdog always appeal to the common man?  Seems like a typical political play to me.  He's not going to be able to sway the aristocracy, such as they are, so what are his options?  Need more Zarek.

They are obviously basing him on Hitler's imprisonment and writing of Mein Kampf which also appealed to the Volk and blamed much on the aristrocracy/intelligensia (i.e. Jews) for prior defeats.

[Lantyssa]

Baltar is dangerous because he was telling the truth.

I found the episode a little uneven.  At first Roslin dismissed Tyrol outright and didn't give a damn about slave or child labor, then she's completely concilitory and all "Unions are Great!  Power to the People!  Rah!".

It was still good.  A lot better than the last few.  I'm hoping we'll get back on the main plot next week though.  Was Adama's line about getting back to the search for Earth foreshadowing?

[Rasix]

I think Baltar is probably telling the truth about his past, but I agree that he is just using it to stir up shit to save his ass/bring us to salvation (which are basically the same thing in his mind).  He probably actually sees himself as the saviour of the underclass at this point, but I remember from one of the New Caprica flashbacks that he was shitting on the union when he was President, so he obviously doesn't really care.

Baltar is just doing what Baltar has always done: ensure the survival of Baltar.  Through any means necessary. Everything is just a means to an end even if it is in the best interest of the fleet.

I agree with the feeling that Roslin's behavior was a little uneven. There were just a few things off with the EP.  Most of the people "working" at the refinery ship seemed to just be standing around staring.  I guess they needed a bunch of people in reserve in the case that someone needed to reach their arms in between the gears. 

I liked Adama's stance on the issue.  You don't get to strike in the military. That's not how that works.  Cally needs to get airlocked.  And to a point I can agree with Roslin, when you're fighting for the survival of a race, some people are going to need to put aside "growth opportunities" for a while.  You know.. until we're not 1 hour from complete destruction.

This was finally, flaws aside, a decent standalone episode. Now, "get on with it".

[HaemishM]

The union episode actually bothered me, because most of the politics lacked subtlety, just like the racist doctor episode. Both were just blatant, in your face, almost polemic in nature, which only work if the characters involved act in complete opposition to their history. Adama and Roslin both didn't act right, especially the part about shooting Cally or dissing Helo's ideas. They just seemed way too dismissive of Helo and Tyrol and they should have known better.

Most of the non-arc episodes like these feel like chess games, where characters are being deliberately placed into position for something that will happen at the end of the season. Most of the time, I don't mind that, but these two felt a bit forced. The show still kicks ass, though.

[Polysorbate80]

Baltar is dangerous because he was telling the truth.

And don't forget, telling the truth is one of the best ways to lie.

[Lantyssa]

Didn't Roslin offer a full pardon for every human after she regained the Presidency?

I wonder if Baltar's lawyer is going to play that as a trump card after the fleet is on the brink of civil war at his trial.

[Riggswolfe]

Adama and Roslin both didn't act right, especially the part about shooting Cally or dissing Helo's ideas.

While I agree they didn't act right for the most part Adama threatening to shoot Cally was totally in character. He's made sacrifices before for lesser things. Like that one black scout he shot down before the events of th miniseries. The way Adama viewed it a line had been crossed and his fleet and by extension the entire human race was in danger.

I don't think he was bluffing at all either. He would have had her shot. Chief too.

[Tannhauser]

A bit uneven but a fine episode.  Nice to have a 'Tyrol episode' and tremendous to see one of the millions of problems the fleet must continually suffer thru.  Reminds us that most humans are having a pretty frackin' rough time of it.  I don't know, I love hearing about fuel shortages, food shortages, etc.  Also ate up the backstory of which planets were rich and which were 3rd world countries like Canada. 

Anyone else have the feeling that when the Cylons reappear they are gonna go apeshit on the fleet?  I hope the season ends with a kick ass battle.  Yeah I like space battles, I'm a shallow no-taste American so shoot me. 

[Tannhauser]

OH and I read in USA Today that they are gonna make a straight to DVD BG movie!  Also hinted that if it tested well it will get a theatrical release!  Supposed to come out just before Season 4.0 in Jan 2008.

I must go, my fanboi gland is swelling.

[Kitsune]

I'm just annoyed that they've been going crazy overboard with a complete lack of common sense technology.  I realize that in many cases it was left out to allow for the story to progress, but in a lot of cases that was just sloppy writing.

They don't have laser communications ala the 'Oh noes, the Cylons are jamming us from our ships in orbit right over our heads!'
They don't have spacesuits in their airlocks.
They don't have any sort of EVA hull repair to patch holes in their ships.
They don't issue weapons to their troops capable of reliably killing the robotic cylons, despite those cylons representing the standard foot soldier of their enemy.
They have the weapons on their ships mounted with fixed fields of fire, in space, with virtually undefended undersides.

On top of that, they apparently don't care about diseases killing off hundreds of humans, despite the steady decline in the fleet's population.
They also don't care about untrained workers holding together the fleet's one and only and very explosive fuel-production ship together by a shoestring.
(And yet Pegasus didn't seem to have any fuel issues at all despite floating around without any support ships.)
They haven't put every surviving man, woman, and child through at least a basic military training, content to have helpless civilians cowering in ships rather than, y'know, being useful.


Of course it's nitpicking, and I enjoy the show despite it, but c'mon.  These people are supposed to come from an accomplished spacefaring society, but our space ships have better common sense layout than theirs.  We keep our space suits in the airlocks because they're, y'know, THE DOOR TO OUTER SPACE.  And we can go outside of our ships to fix them.

And as long as I'm in the mood, what the fuck is up with Star Trek and their love of uniforms without any pockets?  Anyone living on a space ship should be carrying at least some basic tools and survival gear on them at all times, and with the level of technology they had, they could have fit all of that in a good pair of cargo pants.  That way, when Moriarty takes over the holodeck again and steers the ship into an asteroid and all the air is leaving and the door is stuck, you can do something more productive than die.  Instead, it's apparently a grand idea to teleport down to an unexplored world without any tools or gear aside from a phaser and a communicator.

[Evil Elvis]

Just don't ask the computer to create an opponent capable of defeating Data, and you'll be ok.

[Yegolev]

Hey, I can defend those nitpicks a bit.  Spacesuit shortage since Galactica was basically a museum at the time of the alpha strike, and those were taken to functional airlocks.  Other ships don't have lots of them because they are not military ships, kinda like how commercial airliners don't carry any parachutes.

Could also be that they are out of hull-repair materials since, you know, Galactica has been shot to hell, even nuked at least once.  Plus it was basically in-harbor at the time of attack, would be more cost effective to not bother with on-board repair units.

Maybe they haven't invented lasers.  Before you say that is ridiculous, think about how we don't know how to make or do all of the things that the ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew how to make and do.  I'd use the same defense on the weaponry being pitiful against Centurions.  Seems like the Cylons have advanced a great deal in the previous forty years, and there are plenty of hints that they had gained help from some third party during that time.  The humans probably slowed weapons research a great deal after the war ended.

I do agree with you in general that there are some ridiculous things in the show, but this is a sight better than most of the other sci-fi I have been exposed to.

[Tale]

Most of their equipment was issued for a time when the Cylon threat was thought to be history, and the military's role was policing human vs human disputes. Their generation had not fought Cylons.

[Riggswolfe]

So, uh, what did you guys think about this last episode? For me it left alot of questions unanswered.

[Triforcer]

So, uh, what did you guys think about this last episode? For me it left alot of questions unanswered.

They left open a lot of routes.  The person in question was fingering the eject button right before the scene in question, leaving open the possibility the person hit it and the (real) cylon raider picked them up.  More likely and more stupidly, they'll just wake up in a cylon tank whenever the producers want to shock us next. 

[Nevermore]

The Cylon tank theory is the one I was expecting until I realized that the resurrection ship is unlikely to have duplicates of the 5 unknown Cylon models, since even the Cylon's themselves don't know who/what those models are.  There'd have to be some sooper sekrit other resurrection ship that the no one knows about for that theory to hold.

[Roac]

So, uh, what did you guys think about this last episode? For me it left alot of questions unanswered.

I think either she is one of the five and will wake up in a tank, or get scooped up by the raider.  My money is on that raider being either piloted by Leoban, or one of the five, while she remains human (we've seen her childhood, which while it could be faked, would be a streatch). 

Spoiler:  She has a five year contract so it's unlikely she's been fired or has quit.  However, the producers have said that she will not appear for the last three episodes for this season.

[Abagadro]

My theory:

If you grok to the fact that the Cylons are essentially Buddhists and know a bit about that philosophy, last night's ep makes a lot more sense.

[Stormwaltz]

I have the gloomy suspicion that this is the first referance in the new series to the "ship of light."

[Riggswolfe]

Watch the scene in question in slow motion. There is something that looks like an eject and you can see the raider appear in the clouds at least once during that part of the scene.