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Author Topic: Molten Core  (Read 14080 times)
Ironwood
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on: January 23, 2007, 06:49:53 AM

So, um, What are they gonna do with it ?

As a level 60 instance it is currently completely and utterly pointless.

Anyone any news or ideas ?  Personally, I see it getting divided up and nerfed to a winged 10 man instance.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Shavnir
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Reply #1 on: January 23, 2007, 08:08:58 AM

I see it collapsing and being only referred to the same way as one refers to a removed cancer.

Honestly, they have a half hour of art assets, maybe a minute of voice acting and while Ragnaros is cool the rest of the instance to be honest, sucks balls.  Seal it off to save future generations.
Chenghiz
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Reply #2 on: January 23, 2007, 08:16:23 AM

Yeah, very little of the content in there has merit, unfortunately. I see it as Level 60 Twink Instance!
Kenrick
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Reply #3 on: January 23, 2007, 08:22:23 AM

Turn it into some sort of giant PVP battleground.  Or just seal it off like Shav said.  I hate that fucking place.
Nebu
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Reply #4 on: January 23, 2007, 08:32:08 AM

I'm not much of a WoW expert, but won't that zone still be useful to the many that don't purchase the expansion? 

Just a thought.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shavnir
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Reply #5 on: January 23, 2007, 08:51:59 AM

I'm not much of a WoW expert, but won't that zone still be useful to the many that don't purchase the expansion? 

Just a thought.

That's assuming enough people don't buy the expansion to run the instance.

I mean, with 3 people you're gonna be hard pressed to get that far.
Miasma
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Reply #6 on: January 23, 2007, 08:59:20 AM

Yeah, it's a bit too early in the game's life for nostalgic people to form "Old School" guilds which refuse to participate in any expansions.  There were a few of those in EQ that liked to pretend Luclin never happened, they were funny.
Trouble
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Reply #7 on: January 23, 2007, 09:04:25 AM

The expansion is too goddamned good to not get.
Nebu
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Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 09:08:17 AM

The expansion is too goddamned good to not get.

I may have made some bad assumptions: 

1) Many WoW players are under the age of 18.  They may not be able to purchase the expansion for some time.

2) A bulk of WoW subscriptions aren't in the US.  Availability and cost may limit sales in the east leaving many in the older zones.

3) New players playing the 1-60 game for the first time. 

I know that there are still people in many MMOG's playing the original zones.  Yes, they are a minority... but they're out there.  Admittedly, I don't know mych about WoW past level 35... so I openly proclaim my ignorance.

 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 09:12:32 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Zetor
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Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 09:25:19 AM

Thing is ... why? Why would you want to spend ANY time in Molten Bore as a level 60 [even as a fresh level 60], and do the following:
- find 39+ other people in the same boat as you
- get attuned to the instance, and other lv60 raid instances like onyxia and bwl
- run some 5-man instances over and over for fire resistance gear, spend a lot of gold getting FR gear crafted

in order to:
- "learn" the instance over the course of 3+ months, wiping many many times (a typical full MC run takes 5 hours when you have most of it on farm status)
- outfit your raid with said FR gear with the drops you get during this time
- eventually 'clear' MC

and you'd end up with
- some level 60 epics that are surpassed by level 58 greens from outland
- a whole lot of wasted time in one of the most mind-numbing instances of the game

when you could be
- levelling up to 70 easily
- getting a lot better loot on the way, and experiencing a LOT of varied and interesting content
- doing dungeons at 70 that are shorter, a hell of a lot more interesting than MC, and don't require a 40-man raid group


Soo... no, I don't see anyone doing MC anytime soon, unless it's for retro reasons or a crazy 'no-expansion' guild. :p


-- Z.

Ironwood
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Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 09:36:37 AM

Take it as read that No-one will ever do MC again as it stands.

It is a totally fucking pointless exercise in futility.


Seriously.



"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Merusk
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Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 09:39:01 AM

They're going to leave it there to fester, unused.  Perhaps in a few years they'll revisit it the same way EQ went back to revisit their old, unused zones.  For the time being, it's there for folks who want to see it just to see it at 70, with far fewer people.  The same with BWL and Naxx.   Doing it AT 60 is absolutly pointless, as outlands quests and green drops are far better starting at level 58, rather than 60.

Doing it at 70 also means no "gearing up" phase.  FR gear from greens is far, far better than any MC shit or even BWL stuff if you want to even bother with it.   As for 5-hours, my guild got it down to 3 1/2 once wearing only MCgear and a few pieces off Razorgore, but everyone was focused and wanted to get done quick.   

I imagine you'll be able to run MC as fast as UBRS with 20 level 70s.  (Some of the blues the 68/70 people in my guild are finding are letting warriors do things like white-crits for 2k damage.  There's a 93.6 dps axe out there with 3 red sockets that's a quest drop.  shocked)

The expansion is too goddamned good to not get.

I may have made some bad assumptions: 

1) Many WoW players are under the age of 18.  They may not be able to purchase the expansion for some time.
2) A bulk of WoW subscriptions aren't in the US.  Availability and cost may limit sales in the east leaving many in the older zones.
3) New players playing the 1-60 game for the first time. 

I know that there are still people in many MMOG's playing the original zones.  Yes, they are a minority... but they're out there.  Admittedly, I don't know mych about WoW past level 35... so I openly proclaim my ignorance.


Just a few bad assumptions. 

1)  Surveys have shown that the 15-20 demographic actually has MORE free cash than older people.  That's why so many prodcuts cater to them.  When you're living off mom and dad, all (or at the very least the bulk) of your income is spending cash.  If anyone's hard-pressed it's the college or newly-graduated kids, or the folks who probably shouldn't be paying a monthly MMO sub in the first place.

2) Maybe, but their subs are broken-down into those same worldwide zones.  If one guy in Asia is having a problem getting the expansion, all of Asia would be having that problem.  The same for the US and Europe and in the US, at least, there haven't been any complaints about lack of availability.

3) Unless they want to play one of the two new races, you're correct, there's no reason for them to get it.  Though I expect we'll see a WOW "Battle Chest" in 3-6 months with the old game and the expansion. (Granted, that doesn't help current new players.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 09:43:14 AM by Merusk »

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Morfiend
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Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 09:42:51 AM

I wouldn't be surprised to see them put in instance scaling for the older instances. They are doing this with all the outland instances, and I bet they end up doing it for a bunch of the normal ones. For now I think it will fester unused, and I cant say im sad. Just seeing red caves makes me stabby.

I would think they will make Nax scale since only about 10% of players (if that many) have seen it, with maybe 1% getting near to the end. The place is huge, and filled with really cool shit, it would be a shame for more people not to get to experience it. Its like Scholo + Strat + crack. I know I would like to see the end.
Rasix
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Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 09:46:44 AM

Turn it into a continuation of the "bombing run" quests in Hellfire Penninsula.  I'd pay gold to toss napalm on that place.

He's the thing Nebu,

1. It's a lvl 60 raid instance.  That means you're going to need to get 39 other folks to do it (well more, attendance is never 100%, especially for learning an instance).  40-60 folks with high end aspirations that DIDN'T buy the expansion.  shocked

2. It's the worst raid instance they've done.  It's horrible, it's boring, and the gear you get out of it is superceeded by drop and quest greens in the expansion.  Quest blues and some greens even outpace tier 2 and outdoor world boss drops.  The expansion loot variety is just fantastic, the loot variety in MC is rather poor and limited in comparison.

3. The learning curve for MC can be long which exacerbates the above.

4.  Removing MC from the overall experience doesn't completely ruin raiding options for non-expansion folk.  You can do ZG and AQ20 in poor gear and they're 20 man encounters, which will be easier to field for non-expansion refugees.

The experience of MC is best removed from the game.  New players or those not purchasing the expansion will be better off from not playing it. It's not a worthwhile experience.

And from observation, there's not many folks that didn't purchase this expansion.. at least in the US.  I'd imagine they're rolling this out to every territory they're in as fast as humanly possible. 

-Rasix
Nebu
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Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 09:54:30 AM

You guys are right... I just read this and got to wondering what would happen to all the people that don't have the expansion.  With 8 million subs, you have to think there are at least a million without the expansion.  That's a lot of people... granted, not on the same servers or time schedule.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Jayce
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Reply #15 on: January 23, 2007, 11:02:47 AM

I've been wondering the same for all the level 60 instances.

MAYBE the endgame 10-mans (*BRS, DM, Scholo, Strath) will be doable by a tight group of 55+.  I know that it was next to impossible to get into one of those groups at less than 60 before, but now, what's the point when you're 60 of doing not heading directly for Outland?

However, it seems to me that none of the pre-expansion raid dungeons will be worth it.  AQ20/ZG/BWL/MC all have inferior equipment and not super fun boss fights.  As everyone has been saying, MC in particular was amateur hour, with designers fresh from the EQ1 school of "how to punish the crap out of your playerbase".

I guess all these will eventually be itemized on heroic mode for 70s, and then they might see some life again.  Hopefully they do something interesting with them versus the "more bad guys" school of design.


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Koyasha
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Reply #16 on: January 23, 2007, 12:12:37 PM

Personally I hope they stay exactly the way they are for a good long time for several reasons.  First off, the 'I haven't done them' reason.  Never got into raiding in WoW, too many idiots.  Each time I tried I looked fondly at my EQ guild that, in comparison with any WoW guild I've been in, looks like it's composed of mensa candidates.  So I want to experience all of the content in those instances.  Furthest I've ever gotten is a couple practice runs without actually defeating anything.

Second, I think some of those armor sets are still the best looking in the game.  Bloodfang looks better in my opinion than any of the higher tier Rogue sets.  Felheart and Nemesis are both awesome (though the new Corruptor is better looking, they still have their place), Netherwind and Frostfire are both sweet, and so on.  I may not wear them for combat, but I want to -have- them.

Finally, if I can gather a small group of friends (5-10) once we're 70 with decent equipment and go through these instances, I want to at least once or twice.  Back in EQ, that was one of the things that made the game great fun.  Soloing or grouping the bosses of the old days.  Taking down the Avatar of War or Lord Inquisitor Seru with 5 people, or doing a full Vex Thal run with the same.  For some people, doing these sorts of old things with just a few people is much more fun than doing 'current' content.  Granted, level limits on ALL items in WoW make this annoying - in EQ, it was fun to do this to get twink gear for our lowbies - but that just means less reason to do it over and over.  Doing it once or twice for the challenge and to perfect the strategy is still something I want to do.

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Merusk
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Reply #17 on: January 23, 2007, 01:12:48 PM

Second, I think some of those armor sets are still the best looking in the game.  Bloodfang looks better in my opinion than any of the higher tier Rogue sets.  Felheart and Nemesis are both awesome (though the new Corruptor is better looking, they still have their place), Netherwind and Frostfire are both sweet, and so on.  I may not wear them for combat, but I want to -have- them.


Thank you.  Damn I kept thinking I was the onlyone who felt this way. Paladin T2 is the only exception to this, but in all I think the T1 sets ALL looked better than t2+ (and look better than t4 and t5 in kind.)   I've vendored all my DS pieces except the pants (can't beat 'em+ the zg enchant yet) but kept the GS just because it looks fantastic.

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squirrel
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Reply #18 on: January 23, 2007, 01:57:03 PM

I've been wondering the same for all the level 60 instances.

MAYBE the endgame 10-mans (*BRS, DM, Scholo, Strath) will be doable by a tight group of 55+.  I know that it was next to impossible to get into one of those groups at less than 60 before, but now, what's the point when you're 60 of doing not heading directly for Outland?

MC is certainly destined for either the festering neglect scrap-heap or a redesign. It's a horrible instance.

But I also can't see the relevance of the lead up instances either - UBRS, Strat, Scholo. Tier 0 gear is pointless given the new stuff in BC. UBRS and Strat might get run just out of nostalgia/to see them as they're pretty good, but noone will run Scholo now IMO - it's a rotten time-cosuming trash mob nightmare. And without scaling it will not be doable by a group of 55 - 57's. So why bother?

For example - you can run UBRS 2 - 10 times to get the Shadowcraft tunic of Drak (tier 0 rogue gear) (with 9 other people):

Shadowcraft Tunic
176 armor
+26 Agi
+13 Stam
+12 Spi
Req. Lvl. 58


Or you can do a easily soloable/duoable quest at the same level and get (with about 30 minutes effort):

Jerkin of the Untamed Spirit
425 Armor
+23 Str
+22 Agi
+22 Stam

From what i've seen that's pretty typical too. I'm sure a re-work of the old instances isn't very far away...

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Paelos
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Reply #19 on: January 24, 2007, 01:38:03 AM

MC sucks if for nothing else than the fact you had to wander out of your way into a cave completely off the beaten path, kill well over 25 major elite mobs, a couple dozen imps, and take 20-25 minutes if you're good at the place in decent gear, just to see the FIRST BOSS!

In BWL you walk into the place and you're staring at a boss. In AQ40, you pull 5 mobs and you can see the first boss. In Naxx, you clear one room of spiders and you get to the boss room. Those are well designed raiding instances in that capacity. They don't cruelly punish you with worthless mobs at the very beginning, absolutely crushing your soul with respawn rates that make you cry for mercy in your pathetic blue gear when you started.

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Ironwood
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Reply #20 on: January 24, 2007, 01:49:50 AM

Well, yes. 

You guys rehash a lot of stuff we already know.  :)

The question is, what's going to happen with it ?

As far as the other instances go (all of them) they're either fun, easy, or questable.

MC is the only one that's none of the above.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #21 on: January 24, 2007, 01:58:33 AM

The short answer is that nobody knows or can even venture a solid guess.

The smart money would be on nothing, because that's going to be considered "useless" content to upgrade. Remember all those magical level 20-50 instances they've added to the games since release?

PS - If you can't remember, you win. They don't exist.

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Simond
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Reply #22 on: January 24, 2007, 07:43:24 AM

Except Maraudon.  tongue

But yeah - BWL+ could be rewritten (relatively) easily as Heroic raid dungeons if Blizzard were so inclined. MC would need a lot more work.

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SurfD
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Reply #23 on: January 24, 2007, 10:12:47 AM

MC will be where level 70 Rogues and Druids with mining go for quick grabs at large amounts of dark iron ore.

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Chenghiz
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Reply #24 on: January 24, 2007, 10:54:04 AM

BWL and ZG had some cool boss fights. They essentially reused a lot of those for the new 5-man instances. As for the raid sets looking awesome (I agree), those graphics are used on quite a number of the non-set armor found in the level 70ish instances like Caverns of Time, Shattered Halls, and the like - albeit with different color (blue and black for Bloodfang, etc) and some look better than others.
Ironwood
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Reply #25 on: January 24, 2007, 11:40:38 AM

MC will be where level 70 Rogues and Druids with mining go for quick grabs at large amounts of dark iron ore.


Why ?

What the hell for ??

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Slayerik
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Reply #26 on: January 24, 2007, 01:29:41 PM

Player housing is MC's only answer. It's true, it's true.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
SurfD
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Reply #27 on: January 24, 2007, 05:00:01 PM

MC will be where level 70 Rogues and Druids with mining go for quick grabs at large amounts of dark iron ore.
Why ?

What the hell for ??
Jewlcrafting maybe? Hell if i know.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Merusk
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Reply #28 on: January 24, 2007, 08:20:37 PM

MC will be where level 70 Rogues and Druids with mining go for quick grabs at large amounts of dark iron ore.
Why ?

What the hell for ??
Jewlcrafting maybe? Hell if i know.

Nope, can't even Prospect Dark Iron ore. It's completly worthless now.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
ClydeJr
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Reply #29 on: January 25, 2007, 01:27:38 PM

"Skull" bosses are going to scale according to the highest level person in the group:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=70809126&pageNo=1&sid=1#3
Quote
They do scale slightly to be higher than the highest level player in the instance but it should not change the dynamic too much. Players (of higher levels) would probably still be able to go into these instances with lessor numbers than usual to engage in these encounters and be successful.
So the trash will be easier, but the bosses will be just as hard. Add to the fact that you get diminishing returns and that t3 that you used to farm in doesn't protect you as much at level 65.
Shavnir
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Reply #30 on: January 26, 2007, 02:08:54 AM

They scale but the overall damage they do dosen't.
Azazel
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Reply #31 on: January 26, 2007, 05:44:12 AM

I'm not much of a WoW expert, but won't that zone still be useful to the many that don't purchase the expansion? 

Just a thought.

Or they could buy some level 58 greens off of the AH if they want better gear.


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ClydeJr
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Reply #32 on: January 26, 2007, 07:38:00 AM

New blue clarification on scaling bosses:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=70809126&pageNo=6&sid=1#106

Quote
Ok, I have some quick clarification on a few things.

Yes the bosses scale and should act as if 3 levels higher than each individual player. So this will only affect, chance to resist, glancing blows and to hit for each person. Ex. If you are 70 it will react as if it is 73. If you are 60, it will be 63. The hitpoints do not go up nor does the damage that the mob does. The only thing that is scaling is damage mitigation based on each player attacking the mob.

So to clear it up, it does not scale based on the highest member of the raid. The loot tables remain unchanged as well. 

Paelos
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Reply #33 on: January 26, 2007, 08:02:52 AM

Yeah people were making wild speculations about all this in my raiding alliance, so I'm glad to have a concrete link now to prove they are all off their nut about the boss scaling HPs and damage.

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rk47
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Reply #34 on: January 26, 2007, 10:27:52 AM

hmm i never liked raiding much in WoW i quit because of it. The thing is, like someone said the availability problem in some foreign countries (like mine) is preventing me from getting it. Even if it's available the price is kinda high for an expansion (It costs 25% more than the original WoW) so I'm gonna wait a while.

On the mean time I'll just leave my 60 Hunter alone and play a new warlock till 60 without worrying about stupid raids and reaching a green-gear cap status quickly. Money's so easy to get for alts nowadays that I finally can just have some fun trying new stuff without going 'hardcore' on crafting or harvesting just to make ends meet, and lastly no need to plan for raids anymore since I know the greens I could get from soloing would be better. :)

As what will happen to these old instances? Probably left behind for those sadists or beginners who want to know what is it about....Blizzard must be kidding if they even hint about touching these stuff. It's not even worth the effort to unlock. :P I know I won't. fuck VC. Sunken Temple. Maraudon. Let me just explore and do solo quests.

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