The Nerf Prediction Game

[WindupAtheist]

I'm looking forward to hordies having to level a paladin and killing themselves IRL en masse at the suck.

[SurfD]

I don't ever see druids being a FOTW class due to the perception of slow leveling and the sub 20 experience not being all that great (no cat, no bear before 10).

I never really understand why people bring something like this up in an arguement.  Sure, if you are a brand new WoW player, sub 20 gameplay might turn you off of a class, but anyone with at least 1 60 under their belt knows that you spend a grand total of maybe 1 day of play time (and thats stretching it) in the Sub 20 levels.  Hell, the first 20-25 levels can fly by so fast they barely even register (I have leveled enough alts to 35 for crafting purposes to know)

I'm looking forward to hordies having to level a paladin and killing themselves IRL en masse at the suck.

While that may have been true back in the day, everything I have heard about the current state of Paladins seems to indicate that this will be a much lesser factor.  Hell, im personally considering leveling a paladin in my offtime just as something to do.

[Rasix]

I don't ever see druids being a FOTW class due to the perception of slow leveling and the sub 20 experience not being all that great (no cat, no bear before 10).

I never really understand why people bring something like this up in an arguement.  Sure, if you are a brand new WoW player, sub 20 gameplay might turn you off of a class, but anyone with at least 1 60 under their belt knows that you spend a grand total of maybe 1 day of play time (and thats stretching it) in the Sub 20 levels.  Hell, the first 20-25 levels can fly by so fast they barely even register (I have leveled enough alts to 35 for crafting purposes to know)

True enough. I just like to count on people having fickle tastes and most people I knew leveling alts either made something that's extremely easy/fast to level up or something that has a well defined place in the end game (ie all of the rogue, warrior, hunter, priest alts).  I've seen enough people stall out on leveling druids, and if they don't buckle early the 45-48 part hits you hard.

I just don't see them becoming prevalent enough.  There's a number of factors you could look at, even if I didn't pick a particularly good one to focus on.  In my old 75 person guild, there wasn't a single druid alt past 19.

It's funny how 24 hours worth of play time is considered nothing to a MMO player. 

[jpark]

Its interesting to see that a level 70 method of countering the paladin bubble was introduced. I guess invinci-bubble would have been OP in Horde hands.

Can you expand on this?  How is the bubble being dealt with?

[Merusk]

Its interesting to see that a level 70 method of countering the paladin bubble was introduced. I guess invinci-bubble would have been OP in Horde hands.

Can you expand on this?  How is the bubble being dealt with?

Priests' uber-dispell can strip Pally bubbles.   "Bubble"> dispell> aieeee.

[lamaros]

I used to think you were Smart Righ :(

Most of the nerfs in this game happen from PvE balance I would wager, not PvP and the power of the whinge.

I mean, people have been whining about 3min mages, Warlock DC, stunlocks, etc for god knows how long. And they have not been nerfed or were nerfed very slowly after a long period of time. The Devs realised that PvP had some big problems and couldn't really figure ways to balanace the classes around this and they didn't want to screw up PvE because of it, thus they have inflated in Stamina in TBC to try and change things a bit more fundamentaly.

Yet we've seen AOE nerfs, DoT nerfs, Feral tanking nerfs, etc with regularity. There are FAR more nerfs in this game for PvE reasons than PvP.

Also, Warlock's have been adjusted again. DoTs are now subject to the same resitance checks as all other spells. This was not previously the case.

Why? Same reason DoTs were adjusted orignaly I would guess: They were doing waaay too much damage in PvE raids.

I expect the next real PvP nerf (not just minor game balancing, bug fixes) to be about Rogue CloS. In about 3 years...

[jpark]

Its interesting to see that a level 70 method of countering the paladin bubble was introduced. I guess invinci-bubble would have been OP in Horde hands.

Can you expand on this?  How is the bubble being dealt with?

Priests' uber-dispell can strip Pally bubbles.   "Bubble"> dispell> aieeee.

Awesome!!

[Paelos]

Locks and druids will be nerfed when there are too many people playing them. Hunters, paladins, warriors and rogues will get nerfs. Nothing for mages, warlocks and shaman. Buffs for priests and druids. Its about active populations, not power or whining.

As for Horde paladins and Alliance shamans? Its interesting to see that a level 70 method of countering the paladin bubble was introduced. I guess invinci-bubble would have been OP in Horde hands. Loving resto shaman though... the first rule of earth shield... you get the idea.

Warriors need nerfs? As far as pvp I'm not sure we're good at much anymore unless ridiculously geared up and specced directly towards fury forsaking all other pursuits. As far as pve, I would hope we'd continue to be the best tanks out there with more love to protection.

[Xanthippe]

It's rare that my hunter kills a warrior.  Can't normally-geared warriors pretty much chew through normally-geared mages, warlocks, rogues and hunters?

[Morat20]

It's rare that my hunter kills a warrior.  Can't normally-geared warriors pretty much chew through normally-geared mages, warlocks, rogues and hunters?

No. I normally destroy warriors. Stoneform helps, though, and IIRC you're a nelf. As best I can tell (I don't play one anymore), warriors are very gear dependent -- gear scaling and warrior scaling was getting a bit out of hand. Well-geared warriors were as good as well-geared Class X -- but warriors with the best gear were just destroying the upper end. It was just insane what a top-end warrior could do.

I think the goal (I'm nut sure if that was the effect) was to flatten out the curve. Try not to let high-end warriors get so overpowering, without nerfing the middle. Like with everything else, though, it was done with an eye towards gear not in the game yet. So warriors aren't quite as good as they used to be -- and they're facing at least two classes that suddenly really out do them.

[Xanthippe]

So warriors are crying because they don't destroy everyone anymore?

[Morat20]

So warriors are crying because they don't destroy everyone anymore?

I'd like to say that, but they've been pretty badly hurt PvE and PvP. They're getting whupped by virtually everyone, and their tanking abilities were -- at least briefly -- surpassed by druids and pets. That's got to sting a bit.

It really hurts if you were on the bleeding edge -- no more two swing kills. On the other hand, there's the perception problem. Warriors are right there in your face -- they're always target number one. With a pocket priest, they can stay up a long time. Otherwise, they're naked on the front lines, with all the ranged people ganging up on him.

[Zetor]

Yeah... on my fairly well geared warrior (5.4k hp, GM polearm, random blue and purple PVP pieces), I can take hunters and rogues most of the time if it's a 1v1 situation and they don't have any place to kite / aren't preparation specced. I can kill warlocks most of the time (my main is a lock, I know what makes them tick :p), then die to their dots (or just die to them if they have a succubus and are undead.. most of them are). In a group though (if I'm not receiving heals and dispels, and that doesn't happen in a random alliance pug) I'm just sheeped/snared while the ranged characters pew pew me down with ease, usually saving me for last.

I'm definitely not destroying mages.. a frost mage has about a zillion ways to root me, a fire mage can near-1-shot me if he gets the poly off (and that's not too hard at all). If my escape artist and trinket are both up, I can 2-shot mages that don't pay attention, don't have iceblock, and blink after they nova, that's about it.

And of course shadow priests just melt warriors like nothing, it has to be one of the worst matchups in the game, probably above mage-warlock and rogue-warrior.


-- Z.

[Morfiend]

So what do I win?

Hunters

    * "Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.
    * The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.
    * The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
    * The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.

[Jayce]

This will take a few months though before the horde wave of paladins hit.

I guess it's not a wave, but I saw a 61 blood elf pally on Tichondrius last night.

[Morat20]

So what do I win?

Hunters

    * "Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.
    * The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.
    * The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
    * The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.

If I was marksman specced, I'd probably care. :) Wait until more hunters have steady shot.

[Morfiend]

This will take a few months though before the horde wave of paladins hit.

I guess it's not a wave, but I saw a 61 blood elf pally on Tichondrius last night.

Yeah, thats Saabik. He has been on, being powerleveled byb his guild 24/7 since release. He got to 25 really quick, then had a 60 power him through SM over and over till he was 45, then moved to Zul'Farak till about 55, then DM. I think last night was the first time he has been outside an instance since he was level 25.

[Sogrinaugh]

This will take a few months though before the horde wave of paladins hit.

I guess it's not a wave, but I saw a 61 blood elf pally on Tichondrius last night.

Yeah, thats Saabik. He has been on, being powerleveled byb his guild 24/7 since release. He got to 25 really quick, then had a 60 power him through SM over and over till he was 45, then moved to Zul'Farak till about 55, then DM. I think last night was the first time he has been outside an instance since he was level 25.

Didn't the first 70 get banned for this shit (dwarf priest, forget his name)?  I guess this guy is lower-profile and thus safely under the radar.

[Jayce]

Didn't the first 70 get banned for this shit (dwarf priest, forget his name)?  I guess this guy is lower-profile and thus safely under the radar.

Why would that be bannable?

[Sogrinaugh]

Didn't the first 70 get banned for this shit (dwarf priest, forget his name)?  I guess this guy is lower-profile and thus safely under the radar.

Why would that be bannable?

If it was done in the manner im thinking, its a tap exploit.  Always got bugged by guildmates to help powerlevel their stupid alts in DM west or whatever.

Works thus:  People enter instance.  Person leaves group, taps mobs, rest of group kills mobs, re-invites tapper (the guy being powerleveled) before the 60-second autohearth is activated.  Results in all exp going to the tapper.  Not sure if it could be done with raid calibur mobs, but now that i think about it thats probably how that first guy hit 70 in a couple days, apparently his entire guild helped him and i guess thats how (speculation here, i dont know the exact methodology the priest used, just that he got banned for it).

[Ironwood]

Sounds to me like they're in their own personal hell.

Best leave em there.

[Jayce]

Sounds to me like they're in their own personal hell.

Best leave em there.

Good call.

[SurfD]

Lol, if that was Saabik, I dont think he was exploiting the Tap Drop 'n Tank for full exp bug.  He's in my guild.  I can tell you that him and a bunch of buddies were grinding nearly non stop from day one of patch.  Hell, its kind of sad, but he will probably beat my main to 70.

I do know he had a lot of twink type gear banked and already enchanted waiting for his Paladin when expantion hit, to help wih the leveling.

[Morfiend]

Surf, are you in the Core?

[Morfiend]

Didn't the first 70 get banned for this shit (dwarf priest, forget his name)?  I guess this guy is lower-profile and thus safely under the radar.

Why would that be bannable?

If it was done in the manner im thinking, its a tap exploit.  Always got bugged by guildmates to help powerlevel their stupid alts in DM west or whatever.

Works thus:  People enter instance.  Person leaves group, taps mobs, rest of group kills mobs, re-invites tapper (the guy being powerleveled) before the 60-second autohearth is activated.  Results in all exp going to the tapper.  Not sure if it could be done with raid calibur mobs, but now that i think about it thats probably how that first guy hit 70 in a couple days, apparently his entire guild helped him and i guess thats how (speculation here, i dont know the exact methodology the priest used, just that he got banned for it).

As far as I know, it was NOT done like this. The lower level just follows the higher level around, and still gets decent exp. I did it a bit with my 62 Rogue and my lowbie Pally who are on different accounts. A normal mob kill with the Pally was around 120 exp. Grouped with my Rogue in SM I was getting around 60 exp, but it was coming much much faster. Also, adding more lobies to the group actually makes the exp go up due to the group bonus, with 2 other same level pallies in the party, we where all getting around 78 exp per kill. My rogue can clear out any of the wings except cathedral in about 13 minutes. Cathedral takes around 25 minutes.

[SurfD]

Surf, are you in the Core?

Yep.
My main is Kaimei, mage, just dinged 65.

[Morfiend]

I am one of the Co-GMs of PaganSpiral, Morv is my rogues name. Im about to hit 63, but I have been taking it slow, and working on an alt so my rogue is constantly in rested.

[SurfD]

I have been taking it moderately slow.  My main is 65 (half way to 66 now) and i have been tooling aroudn on my other 2 60 alts trying to level them up in Alchemy / Tailoring to use as Transmute / Mooncloth bots.

still so much to see and do either way :P

[jpark]

< deleted >

[Morfiend]

Necro and deleted. The plot thickens.

[jpark]

Necro and deleted. The plot thickens.

Bah I will confess - I heard a rumor in game that the pally bubble had / was going to be nerfed - to 75% damage reduction.  I posted here - THEN checked to boards on blizz - to find out it was a hoax.

* Shows off his stupidity *

[SurfD]

Well, last i heard, the pally bubble HAD been nerfed, in that priest Mass Dispell will strip it off.  No idea if that actually works tho.

[angry.bob]

Well, last i heard, the pally bubble HAD been nerfed, in that priest Mass Dispell will strip it off.  No idea if that actually works tho.

Yes and no. It will strip off one effect, randomly determined. So the more buffs and whatnot you have up, the lower the chances that it will hit the bubble. There's also a Prot talent called Stoicism that gives you an extra 30% chance to resist dispells. So it's far from a sure thing.

Frankly, people have made way to big a deal about the bubble. It's nowhere near as powerful as the "special feature" ability of every other class in the game. In fact, it's the only way to survive more than 5 seconds against most of them.

[Merusk]

Invulnarability - much like stealth + ranged damage - will always be crying points in competetive games. It doesn't matter how useful they are, their mere exsistence will cause wailing and gnashing of teeth.