Dungeon Running anyone?

[schild]

1. The distribution system: Some things have higher drop rates on better items, but no one is chasing after that one shiny - this is where WoW fails, everyone knows what everyone wants.

Explain this one better?

Sure. Some enemies had higher drop rates for items. For example, Pindleskin in Chapter 5. People would kill him over and over because he had the best ratio of items to how hard/dangerous it was to kill him. But there was no guarantee. In my last game, the best weapon I ever got still came off a random chapter 5 enemy. Essentially, while you could be more efficient killing bosses over and over - raiding per se - you could still just play the actual content and come at as good if not better than a person who bots Pindleskin all day.

In WoW, everyone knows the best items for every class and how to get them. In Diablo, sure, you might know some - maybe even all of the best items - but farming a boss ain't gonna guarantee that shit at any level.

[Trouble]

This thread makes me sad that I missed out on the whole Diablo thing. =(

[stray]

It wasn't that great.

Also, where the hell were you then?

[lamaros]

I will never understand Diablo love. It really wasn't that great.

[tkinnun0]

Here's how that kind of loot system plays out in practise:

You're level 41. In your bags you have the best level 42 sword you have found. And a level 43 sword. And swords for levels 44 and 45. When you loot a new level 42 sword, you compare it your existing level 42 sword and swap if it's better. Now multiply that for all your charater's slots.

(That was AC2, btw.)

Replace level requirement with stat requirements and it's all better? Now you'll have to compare your looted random sword to, not one of your swords, but all of the swords in your bag.

[schild]

Guys, the Diablo loot system is just ONE part of one game - that happened to be great. The loot system however can be transplanted into MANY different types of games. Beat-emups (Dynasty/Samurai Warriors kinda does this), shooters/shmups (though it would stray away from the bullet hell thing obviously, as that's a tight-knit very controlled system) - hell, Culdcept had diablo-flavored card mechanic (though, arguably - those were just packs of cards).

Anyway, it's pretty much a guarantee that if I know what the best armor and weapon in a game is, I'll never play that game. And that's just a tiny fraction of why MMOGs suck and could be favorably altered by the inclusion of the Diablo style loot system.

[stray]

I'll agree that predictability sucks. As far as loot systems go, Diablo was more engaging and exciting.

I'm not a big fan of loot in general though. I'd prefer raw materials and crafting. Unpredictable crafting, that is ;).

And just as a sidenote: I wish someone had the balls to just make a game with plain vanilla weapons. Nothing magic. Just different levels of craftsmanship.

[edit] For some reason though, I have a good time playing Diablo-ish/Hack 'n' Slash games on consoles. I like them better than Diablo itself.

[Falconeer]

Anyway, it's pretty much a guarantee that if I know what the best armor and weapon in a game is, I'll never play that game. And that's just a tiny fraction of why MMOGs suck and could be favorably altered by the inclusion of the Diablo style loot system.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've been saying that for years now, and seeked out any MMO that promised even just a inch of that.
Alas, the only one that apparently has exactly this system is again Auto Assault, that unluckily it's boring as hell proving that Diablo Loot isn't enough.
Still, it has to be tried again. It's a shame no one is brave or smart enough to go that way, I guess they are scared by balancing issues and/or professional board whiners.

[tkinnun0]

proving that Diablo Loot isn't enough.

The reason it doesn't offer a compelling goal in itself is because it's not predictable. Funny, eh?

Anyway, it's pretty much a guarantee that if I know what the best armor and weapon in a game is, I'll never play that game.

For Diablo 2 v1.11, paladin, Blessed Hammer build:

Weapon: Heart of the Oak Flail (ones with Higher Resistances are better)
Helm: Harlequin Crest Shako with an UM Rune (For +2, Life, Mana, DR and Resistance)
Armor: Archon Enigma Runeword (Teleport).
Shield: Spirit Pally Shield Runeword (+2, very good Resists depending on the shield used and FHR).
Gloves: Magefists Upgraded 2 times (FCR and regen-mana, high def if upped).
Belt: Thundergods Vigor (Lightning Res +10 and absorb for Burning Souls)
Boots: Infernostride (Max Fire Res and some good mods) or upped Hotspur (Max Fire res)
Rings: 1 Raven Frost (Cannot be frozen, Cold Absorb, and Dex), 1 SOJ (+1 skills and Mana)
Amulet: Mara's (+2 and All Resists, hands down the best ammy to use in the game!)
Charms: 10% exp. Anni SC and as many SCs/GCs as you can get with resists  and/or +1 to your tree skills and life.

[Venkman]

Thanks for explaining the luv for Diablo loot system. One point of difference between that game and most MMOGs is that loot distribution is tied to getting 20, 40 or even 65 people together on a single task. That probably more than anything else changes the dynamic of loot. You get that many people together they're going to want to know, within reason, their reward for success.

And even endest biggest badest mobs in WoW aren't guaranteed to drop the stuff you want. They're merely guaranteed to drop something uber, and that could be as many as one of five things.

[Strazos]

You get that many people together they're going to want to know, within reason, their reward for success.

And even endest biggest badest mobs in WoW aren't guaranteed to drop the stuff you want. They're merely guaranteed to drop something uber, and that could be as many as one of five things.

Don't care - that's a false sense of entitlement. I would go for a loot system that pissed the ubers off, purely out of spite.

[Furiously]

And even endest biggest badest mobs in WoW aren't guaranteed to drop the stuff you want. They're merely guaranteed to drop something uber, and that could be as many as one of five things.

That's why you have to FARM them!!!! And that's what is wrong about the system.

[WindupAtheist]

I don't agree with Schild on lots of things, but in his love for Diablo 2 and its loot he is absolutely right.  WoW's DNA is way too much EQ, and not nearly enough D2.

[Nonentity]

Anyway, it's pretty much a guarantee that if I know what the best armor and weapon in a game is, I'll never play that game. And that's just a tiny fraction of why MMOGs suck and could be favorably altered by the inclusion of the Diablo style loot system.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've been saying that for years now, and seeked out any MMO that promised even just a inch of that.
Alas, the only one that apparently has exactly this system is again Auto Assault, that unluckily it's boring as hell proving that Diablo Loot isn't enough.
Still, it has to be tried again. It's a shame no one is brave or smart enough to go that way, I guess they are scared by balancing issues and/or professional board whiners.

Yeah, but killing a bunch of mercenaries and finding a radiator isn't nearly as cool as slaughtering a horde of demons and finding an axe. There's just something bizarre about Auto Assault, and that was one of my complaints in beta (among many).

[Sunbury]

Meh, AC1 loot system + tink system > Diablo system

Also in AC1 you couldn't just put on a Plate Hauberk and expect it to protect your feet.  Nothing of this overall AC crap.

[Strazos]

One, hauberks are chain, not plate armor.

Two, how did AC in....AC1 work? Could I aim and hit you in the bare foot?

[Cheddar]

One, hauberks are chain, not plate armor.

Two, how did AC in....AC1 work? Could I aim and hit you in the bare foot?

Yes.

[Venkman]

And even endest biggest badest mobs in WoW aren't guaranteed to drop the stuff you want. They're merely guaranteed to drop something uber, and that could be as many as one of five things.

That's why you have to FARM them!!!! And that's what is wrong about the system.

Nobody farmed in Diablo?

Please...

I'll grant that farming in Diablo is very different from raiding with 39 other people in terms of personal requirements. And, you arguably have a greater chance of success with drops in Diablo because of the loot system. But fundamentally, it's the same thing: repeating the same/similar content for a single purpose. NOT to quest. NOT to socialize. To win. It's a slot machine.

[Strazos]

Hey, idiots like to farm. Doesn't matter what game they play.

[Falconeer]

Yeah, but killing a bunch of mercenaries and finding a radiator

Actually, just reading that sentence makes me wanna resub right now...

[geldonyetich]

This game has no , from what I gathered.  Sure they make you agree to one before you launch it, but I understand they dropped the NDA quite officially, so I think I'm in the clear to tear this game a new one without litigation.  After about 3 hours play I think I know everything I need to know about the game:

• Dungeon Runners doesn't take itself seriously at all.  Mideval backdrop with newbies wearing "cardboard armor" and weapons whose attack speed is described as "friggin fast".  One of your first quest NPCs is a crotchety old hermit who blusters on like a senile old man quite deliberately.  In the lower left corner of your screen, a leering demon named Karl holds your experience bar, going through a gamut of emotions as you play.  The whole thing is tongue-in-cheek, whch is okay if you want to encourage your players to go ahead and goof off.
• Three classes: Melee, Range, and Magic.  They seem to differ only in their starting stats and the skills they can earn.
• Diablo-Style Loot?  Well, it fits half of Schild's intepretation, but not quite delivering in 3, 5, and 6.  The merchants in particular are sad because they're shared between players and so the good loot is quickly bought up while unwanted loot is dumped on them.  In time, their one-page limited inventories are full of weak gear.
  
  
• Though it plays much like Diablo, it's somewhat fast paced and actiony.  Monsters tend to appear in clumps and attack rather quickly.  Rangers and Mages don't have much of a chance at fighting from range - the mobs are on them in seconds.
• Randomly generated terrain and loot for unlimited adventures, Diablo-style.
• Stable game, but prone to glitches, like the time I ran into the next terrain cell being generated a full elevation level too high, so I was pretty much halted right there.
• Pretty shallow game, as is evident by your only having 7 hotkeys, two of the being your right and left mouse button.
• From what I gather, the game will be downloadable and playable for free but "members" (who shell out a subscription) get adavantages like being able to wield better than lightly enchanted loot and being able to use more effective versions of potions available for the same price off the merchants.

I probably would have enjoyed the game more if I didn't have an issue of lockups in certain games ever since I got this new video card.  Dungeon Runners is one of those games that locks up randomly every once in awhile, as opposed to a game that locks up neigh immediately (Sam & Max: Culture Shock) or rarely ever at all (EQ2/CoH).  That my problem, not Dungeon Runner's, and I'm hoping this new 500 Watt power supply in the mail will fix it.

Also, grouping would probably make this game considerably more interesting, but I didn't bother due to the above problem.

[Nonentity]

Yeah, but killing a bunch of mercenaries and finding a radiator

Actually, just reading that sentence makes me wanna resub right now...

Don't give in. Killing mutated plants only to find [Patched Duct Tape] was dumb.

The funnest thing about that game was the physics system on the cars, and the fact that everything blew up.

This is the explosion game.

[Numtini]

It sounds interesting. Looking at the subscription possibilities, I wish they'd try a micropayment system as well.

[Alkiera]

I've played a bit in the beta.  The loot system does meet Schild's list, as levels are very much random.

My biggest issue is stability.  I cannot play the game on my desktop at all, as it throws some kind of exception the instant something tries to hit my character in melee, and sometimes earlier when I'm just clicking around.  I don't have this problem on my laptop, may be AMD CPU related, laptop is Intel.  Both have Radeon cards for graphics.  Laptop lets me actually play, but is a big chuggy.  It has quests in dungeons, 'go kill 30 BadThings to help secure the realm against invasion' type deals, with rewards of gold and exp.

Definately does not take itself seriously.  The mage trainer occasionally says "Stay awhile, and listen" like D1's Cain did, only he goes on to prattle about telling you something important, if only he could remember what it was, etc.  Early material types include cardboard and linoleum.  I once saw a 2h axe of some type with a rated speed of 'Grandma'.   Amusing descriptions on items, silly prefix/suffix names for magic items, etc.

Mobs almost always attack in groups, diablo2 style.  As a mage I got a lot of use out of a point-blank AE ice spell.  Mobs are faster than D1/D2, though... and some much much faster.  You basically get 1-2 free shots before the entire pack is on you.

There are 3 classes, your class sets your initial stats, and the formula which determines your hp/mana from your stats.  Mages get more mana than other classes, but less, hp, fighters more hp, less mana.  Ranged class kinda goes down the middle.  Like D1, all spells are available to all classes, and you can learn the same spell again to increase its effectiveness.

I never played to too terribly high, as it crashes constantly on my desktop, and chugs on my laptop.  There seemed to be lots of areas and levels and whatnot, with waypoints to significant ones. 

[schild]

Well, considering it's NCSoft, I'm sure they'll fix the stability. I might actually have to *gasp* pay for an MMOG just for my lootwhoring needs.

[schild]

Had to use the codes given to me, finally got an account made. While downloading, was reading the official forums. I'm pretty fucking smashed and that place was still terrible.

I hate official forums. They should be done away with.

[schild]

Ok. Got into the game. Server went down for matienence about 45 minutes in but...

I could make a list of 100 things that need to be done for this to be Diablo Online before Blizzard does it. And at $5 a month it would be a fucking steal.

These guys are close. Very Close. And they don't even know it.

Edit: No crashes or client problems and I probably went through 10 resolutions before finally deciding on one.

[Pig Destroyer]

Anyone pretty please send me a referral? I'd like to try this out.

[Numtini]

Same here, if someone has a referral I'd love to give it a try.

[Grimwell]

My kid has been grinding the game for the last few days. He loves it. That's your demographic -- 10 year old kids who can spend their allowance to get member benefits if they want. They just need to give the kids the ability to buy codes for access at 7-11.

I can't play the game on my computer. Well I can, but the avatars (all PC's/NPC's/Mob's) are totally invisible... makes things hard. I grouped with my kid earlier today and spent my time following the floating sword ( I can see gear ) and then throwing the mage nuke spell whenever the crosshairs would go green. I can run EQ2 on this laptop, but DR is glitching. It's beta so no big deal, and could be my Omega drivers wigging it out.

This is a perfect mash game. Something to burn some rage or boredom on. I agree with Schild, it's very, very close to something great. Not quite there yet, but it's good and will do fine in the youth market. They already have their Teen rating, and viral marketing will have this across the schools in a flash.

I find it a little humorous that this game does combat great and looks better than Runescape, but RS has more immersion and crafting options. It's like watching the old UO/EQ path a gain... DR could do better than RS if things play out well, and it's a shallow game in comparison.

As to the loot factor... direct quote while I'm typing this from the kid: "Holy cow, I'm going to keep this!" He just found a sword that is one level above him as a random drop, and he's going to hold inventory space until he can use it. I love random loot.

[schild]

They better not add crafting to this. Keep it random loot.

Felt the need to add that.

And, sup grimmy!

[Venkman]

Anyone gots a referral code?

[schild]

I've got 3 people. But I'm gonna email them and see if I can just get people in en masse. I haven't talked to NCSoft really since that giant firing I broke though - which I don't think they liked...


... at all.

[ahoythematey]

Looks like it could be good.  Hope NCsoft doesn't hate you, schild.

[UnSub]

I hate official forums. They should be done away with.

Because fan forums are so much better.