Bioware Austin.. damm more Dragons.. or Lightsabers?

[Lantyssa]

Give me one good even remotely plausable reason as to why BioWare would make a Star Wars (regardless of timeline, setting, etc) MMO?  And "why not?" can't be the answer.

Awwww.  Beaten by two people.

 

[eldaec]

What?

Noone knows whats going on, but I can think of a hundred reasons as to why it's NOT SW based, and not a single one why it IS.

ALso, the whole reason this thread woke back up was media reports that it is star wars.

[Venkman]

Not to rip on ya SnakeCharmer, but your statement made it sound like you know for sure it's not SW MMO. If it's really more a matter of strongly not believing, then, well, carry on :)

There's a million reasons for it to be or not to be based on some period of SW. I still don't care until someone says something officially. I'm more interested in that this is worth speculating about at all than in what the speculations themselves are about.

[SnakeCharmer]

If I start up a website, does that make me media?

Further, if my new website says <whatever>, does that make it more or less as credible as anyone else?

No.

"Gaming media" is tossed around far too easily these days, and the lines defining it are just way to grey and blurry.  Who had heard of www.primotechnology.com before this?  Honestly?  Easiest way to generate hits to a 'gaming website' is to toss out rumors regarding high visibility projects.  No brainer.  BioWare's "we will not confirm nor deny" stance is doing nothing but generating publicity.  Same for Lucas Arts.  If they come out and say "No, it's not based on Star Wars", the interest automatically drops by a fairly significant margin, and possibly becomes negative (i.e. - damnit, another fantasy MMO. GG BioWare :( See ya!!) wanes.  And they don't want that.  So, yeah, they sit there and say "No comment" because it keeps the comments coming, no matter how wildly speculative.  It's GREAT free advertisement.  Everyone is praising BioWare as the one dev studio to rule them all, the one true hero that can 'do it right' with BioWare fanboism at its finest.  And I'm really with Schild on the "What makes anyone think BioWare can do it better than anyone else given the pedigree of people working on the project" outlook.  Other than Gordon Walton, who else there can truly be considered bringing a successful MMO to the market?  And to that point, what has Walton done that is so spectacular?  I'm a HUGE Walton fan, just because of his personality.  And all due respect to Schubert, but what has he done lately?  

Same tired people doing the same tired thing.

Other true(?) media outlets such as gamespot and what have you picked up on it and posted it because it (the zomg star wars kotor bioware mmo!! frenzy) generates hits.  It's the same thing.  It's all about publicity and bringing hits to a website.

/cynic

And DQ, no I don't take it as a rip.  It IS a matter of strongly believing that it isn't, along with the same speculation (however, polar opposite) of people saying that it IS a KOTOR/SW MMO.

[Montague]

Not to rip on ya SnakeCharmer, but your statement made it sound like you know for sure it's not SW MMO. If it's really more a matter of strongly not believing, then, well, carry on :)

There's a million reasons for it to be or not to be based on some period of SW. I still don't care until someone says something officially. I'm more interested in that this is worth speculating about at all than in what the speculations themselves are about.

The reactions of various folks seems to me more interesting than the rumor itself.

It's like a forum about romance novels having a ton of militant lesbians with Birkenstocks bitching they have men in them.

[Oban]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but I now have confirmation from a reliable source that the title being worked on is:

Big Rigs Online

[Venkman]

<"media" thrashing>

I completely agree.

I was one of the people cheering for the demise of old-style E3 mostly for this reason even more than the other one (that it had devolved to little more than an obnoxious anal retentive pandering to antiestablishment stereotypes). It's easy to call oneself a reporter, or a pundit, for just about anything these days. And that's fine really. We shouldn't all exist on the teet of info-dispensing profit centers because no matter who you are or where you're from, your bias is absolutely going to always come out anyway. Anyone should have a say.

But there's quantifiable and there's other. Prime standing by their "source" is little more than them not wanting to admit it was a rumour. They have no way of substantiating any of it. Real reporters* wouldn't have reported it unless it could be sustantiated in some capacity. Here again I really and truly don't care who you are. You can claim insight all over the place, but unless I see links, you're just more noise.

And I suffer from the same things. I know stuff. We all know stuff. But some of the stuff we know is based on sources we're not really allowed to talk about. It's always better just to not talk about it of course. But we're all human too :)

I'd have had more respect for Prime if they said something like "sorry, we can't substantiate nor provide info on how we learned this. We believe but understand if you do not. You'll just have to wait and see".

* And I'm not one of those people who only thinks print media has real reporters. "Reporting" is in your actions and your writing style, regardless of medium.

[Miasma]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but I now have confirmation from a reliable source that the title being worked on is:

Big Rigs Online

[schild]

If I start up a website, does that make me media?

Further, if my new website says <whatever>, does that make it more or less as credible as anyone else?

No.

"Gaming media" is tossed around far too easily these days, and the lines defining it are just way to grey and blurry.  Who had heard of www.primotechnology.com before this?  Honestly?  Easiest way to generate hits to a 'gaming website' is to toss out rumors regarding high visibility projects.  No brainer.  BioWare's "we will not confirm nor deny" stance is doing nothing but generating publicity.  Same for Lucas Arts.  If they come out and say "No, it's not based on Star Wars", the interest automatically drops by a fairly significant margin, and possibly becomes negative (i.e. - damnit, another fantasy MMO. GG BioWare :( See ya!!) wanes.  And they don't want that.  So, yeah, they sit there and say "No comment" because it keeps the comments coming, no matter how wildly speculative.  It's GREAT free advertisement.  Everyone is praising BioWare as the one dev studio to rule them all, the one true hero that can 'do it right' with BioWare fanboism at its finest.  And I'm really with Schild on the "What makes anyone think BioWare can do it better than anyone else given the pedigree of people working on the project" outlook.  Other than Gordon Walton, who else there can truly be considered bringing a successful MMO to the market?  And to that point, what has Walton done that is so spectacular?  I'm a HUGE Walton fan, just because of his personality.  And all due respect to Schubert, but what has he done lately? 

Same tired people doing the same tired thing.

Other true(?) media outlets such as gamespot and what have you picked up on it and posted it because it (the zomg star wars kotor bioware mmo!! frenzy) generates hits.  It's the same thing.  It's all about publicity and bringing hits to a website.

/cynic

And DQ, no I don't take it as a rip.  It IS a matter of strongly believing that it isn't, along with the same speculation (however, polar opposite) of people saying that it IS a KOTOR/SW MMO.

I'd say I have a pretty good track record.

But hey, if you want to think it's NWN Worlds or something, go ahead.

There isn't a license on the planet besides Star Wars that could make Bioware worth $860M though.

Not to mention EA already has Spielberg in the bag.

Those last 2 things are unrelated, but ya know.

Edit: Without a set of forums, I don't know why Primotech exists.

[SnakeCharmer]

I'd say I have a pretty good track record.

I'm not slamming you in particular with that minirantwhateverthing, Schild.  I'd trust your opinion on the matter more than most. 

But hey, if you want to think it's NWN Worlds or something, go ahead.

Would you agree or disagree that pulling the trigger on an IP like Star Wars is inherently riskier than fantasy clone 82347513?

There isn't a license on the planet besides Star Wars that could make Bioware worth $860M though.

They didn't pay 860 million for the MMO license.  Granted, dumber things have been done with money...Yeah, I know that's not what you mean. 

Not to mention EA already has Spielberg in the bag.

Those last 2 things are unrelated, but ya know.

Why even bring up Spielberg?

[WindupAtheist]

If it were not Star Wars, I tend to think BioWare would come out and say "It's not Star Wars!"  At least if their PR machine is competent.  Otherwise they risk annoucing Jade Empire Online (or whatever) and having the dominant interweb/gamer/geek reaction be nothing but groans of diappointment.

This rumor is persistent and popular enough that it would merit serious dispelling if it weren't true.

[SnakeCharmer]

If it were not Star Wars, I tend to think BioWare would come out and say "It's not Star Wars!"

I don't, for reasons stated above.  If they keep saying 'no comment', it keeps speculation.  It keeps people talking.  It keeps people talking positively about how well BioWare would do with it.  If they come out and say "We're not doing Star Wars", all those Star Wars fanbois like me vamoose.

They're smart in what they're doing.  They're riding a PR gravy train for as long as they can.

Playing my own devil's advocate here:

Let's say that it is Star Wars.  No comment is going to be made until shutdown is announced for SWG.  SWG currently has no plans beyond Chapter 8.  Publishes are taking longer and longer.  Conspiracy theory incoming...

Lucas Arts is instructing SOE to 'take their time' with publishes on SWG, and telling them when they can publish updates to the servers, because the BioWare Star Wars MMO isn't ready for public viewing/announcement.  Once KOTORMMO is ready to go public, LA will instruct SOE to issue a public statement regarding the impending shutdown of SWG, or at the very least, no more content or such.  It will be supported in an absolute minimal capacity (i.e. - just enough to keep it running) at best.

[schild]

Would you agree or disagree that pulling the trigger on an IP like Star Wars is inherently riskier than fantasy clone 82347513?

But I'm not playing a guessing game.

[eldaec]

Is it too early to start making posts like this on each page?

[eldaec]

Would you agree or disagree that pulling the trigger on an IP like Star Wars is inherently riskier than fantasy clone 82347513?

This is the daftest thing in the thread.

One thing Star Wars has going for it is guaranteed profit. Even Star Wars games about wookie hairdressing make money.

Games with elves carry no such guarantee.

[Rasix]

Is it too early to start making posts like this on each page?

We have a forum for that.

[Venkman]

The central point of this thread has become who's closest to knowing jack shit about what Bioware is working on 

Just like I don't care who says what until there's a verifiable link, historical performance does not guarantee future success. Unless you're in the adsense traffic clickthrough business, being first with anything is far less important than being right. Being first happens every day.

[SnakeCharmer]

One thing Star Wars has going for it is guaranteed profit. Even Star Wars games about wookie hairdressing make money.

But apparently not enough money.  Hence the thing that shall not be named.

But I'm not playing a guessing game.

OK. 

Edumacate me.  Convince me.

Why do you believe it's KOTOR or some variation thereof?

[WindupAtheist]

He's not going to tell you how he knows anything he may know.  If that were the case, it would already be in News or something.  Don't be thick.

[d4rkj3di]

- I'm guessing one of the main reasons they still haven't announced the IP is that SOE has some sort of exclusive agreement which hasn't expired yet.

BioWare Mystery Online was stated as launching in 2009 by their technical director in an interview. SOE and LA agreement expires in 2009.

[Trippy]

LA has already said that SOE doesn't have an exclusive license to MMOs set in the Star Wars universe.

[SnakeCharmer]

- I'm guessing one of the main reasons they still haven't announced the IP is that SOE has some sort of exclusive agreement which hasn't expired yet.

BioWare Mystery Online was stated as launching in 2009 by their technical director in an interview. SOE and LA agreement expires in 2009.

And you know the SOE / LA agreement goes poof in '09 how?

[d4rkj3di]

And you know the SOE / LA agreement goes poof in '09 how?

It ain't Star Wars / KOTOR.

You show me yours first...

[UnSub]

Bioware would be playing a dangerous game in pretending that KotorO might be what they are working on if they aren't. It's all well and good generating buzz, but that buzz is going to die faster than Micheal Richards in front of a black audience if KotorO isn't coming out.

1) Bioware gets tarnished with a "they treated us like suckers" response from the internet. Nerd rage ensues.

2) The non-KotorO MMO suffers in comparison to what KotorO "would have been".

3) Does Bioware really need this hype? They are Bioware. If Mass Effect does well (all signs point to yes at this stage), they don't need it. If Mass Effect flops, a non-KotorO announcement burns them even more.

If the Bioware MMO isn't KotorO, they need to stomp the rumour dead. Non-denial denials don't cut it. While it might seem like a good idea now, when everyone is talking about Bioware and how good they are, it could easily become a painful burning sensation that their new non-KotorO MMO can't ever scratch.

[Margalis]

If it were not Star Wars, I tend to think BioWare would come out and say "It's not Star Wars!"  At least if their PR machine is competent.  Otherwise they risk annoucing Jade Empire Online (or whatever) and having the dominant interweb/gamer/geek reaction be nothing but groans of diappointment.

This rumor is persistent and popular enough that it would merit serious dispelling if it weren't true.

Edit: Comment got all screwed up..exactly right. If it isn't Star Wars then they are setting themselves up for immediate letdown.

Would you agree or disagree that pulling the trigger on an IP like Star Wars is inherently riskier than fantasy clone 82347513?

Given that SWG was a bad game only marginally related to Star Wars and still did OK I'd say you'd have to be stupid to think SW is the riskier investment. History is full of SW games that sold way better than they should have. And it's full of fantasy games that bombed horribly.

I think SW is one of the few licenses that you can slap onto anything and honestly expect sales to measurably increase. We aren't talking the 7-Up "Cool Spot" logo here...

Also SW MMOs are a lot rarer than fantasy MMOs...

[WindupAtheist]

KOTOR gives me confidence that BioWare would make a better Star Wars MMO than SWG.  Not because I think any of it's design concepts lend themselves to online play, but simply because KOTOR showed me that BioWare knows what I want out of Star Wars.  They understand the IP.  Whatever they make, it's not going to be an economic sim with UO-style animal tamers.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Snake,

The devs of SWG have announced that chapter 9 will include the droid commander expertise, what else is in that chapter has not been anounced. Chapter 7 goes live next week, and the devs announced that they will push the space chapter 8 out by the Christmas holidays. SWG is far from dead.

[stu]

There's no reason why SWG and KOTORO wouldn't be able to coexist. In a perfect world, I'm sure Lucas Arts would want them both to be running at the same time. If BioWare is releasing their game in 2009, the people at SWG have plenty of time to get their game were they might want it to be, wherever that might be.

KOTOR gives me confidence that BioWare would make a better Star Wars MMO than SWG.  Not because I think any of it's design concepts lend themselves to online play, but simply because KOTOR showed me that BioWare knows what I want out of Star Wars.  They understand the IP.  Whatever they make, it's not going to be an economic sim with UO-style animal tamers.

Plus, anything outside of the original films is fair game. With that much freedom, the nit picking from fanboys shouldn't be so bad. BioWare has already proven that they have solid writers, so as long as the gameplay is fun, I'd say most people will actually be relieved to have an outlet besides SWG.

[WindupAtheist]

I do hope they don't just shitcan SWG the day KOTORO comes out.  I want to see the fighting between KOTORO fanboys and SWG community diehards.  I look forward to people trolling with images Darth Revan standing triumphant over the corpse of a wookie barber.

[Velorath]

Snake,

The devs of SWG have announced that chapter 9 will include the droid commander expertise, what else is in that chapter has not been anounced. Chapter 7 goes live next week, and the devs announced that they will push the space chapter 8 out by the Christmas holidays. SWG is far from dead.

Take that shit to the Graveyard.  Don't try to sneak your SWG update garbage into here.

[WindupAtheist]

Fuck it.  As far as I'm concerned, it's Star Wars until proven otherwise.

/e dusts off his Star Wars fanboy hat

Old friend, I never thought I'd get to wear you again on these boards...

/e slaps it on his head and begins to drool vacuously

THIS GAME IS GONNA FUCKIN RULE.

[Bunk]

You know, it's reassuring to know that there will always be at least one fanboi around who is several magnitudes more in to something than I am - to me looking sane by comparison.

[Salamok]

You know, it's reassuring to know that there will always be at least one fanboi around who is several magnitudes more in to something than I am - to me looking sane by comparison.

I think the mods need to give him a stealth name change, WUA is instilled with more faith and belief than the pope.

[HaemishM]

Bioware having a good track record with Star Wars properties doesn't mean KOTORO would be good. It's certainly more encouraging than if the Darkfall guys or Turbine got the license. But it's an MMOG... chances that it will be a shitty, class-based Diku-y snorefest are pretty fucking high.

Bioware's name on the game DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BE GOOD. Especially considering, as has been pointed out, it's Bioware Austin and not the guys responsible for KOTOR in the first place. It's a bunch of guys responsible for failed (in game design terms) MMOG's.

The only positive to take out of an announcement of a KOTOR-based Star Wars game is that the designers don't have to ass around with huge continuity problems, they don't have to worry about making Jedi rare and they don't have to use any known characters at all.

[Reg]

The reason I was looking forward to whatever game Bioware came out with was that they're the only game company I know of other than Blizzard with the reputation and the financial resources not to have to release before the game is done.

Now EA owns them so that confidence is gone. Oh well.