CCP is unmerging with White Wolf, get your beards out

[Simond]

No, really

Gaming Industry Innovators CCP and White Wolf to Merge
Combined company to deliver next-generation gaming products online and offline
 
Reykjavik, Iceland and Atlanta, GA, USA – November 11, 2006 - CCP hf. and White Wolf Publishing, Inc. today announced that the companies have entered into a definitive agreement to merge. The creators of the single largest persistent online role-playing world and the world's second-largest developer of offline role-playing, strategy and collectable card games will create the industry's largest independent Virtual World developer. CCP is the publisher and developer of EVE Online, the world's largest virtual gaming universe. White Wolf is the creator of some of the world's most recognized role-playing titles including: World of Darkness (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage) and Exalted. The combined company will introduce new online and offline gaming products across the science-fiction, horror, and fantasy genres.

The merged company will enable CCP to integrate White Wolf's leading expertise in offline gaming development to enhance and create physical products for its MMOG, EVE Online. Products to be introduced in 2007 will include strategy guides, enhanced collectable card games, role-playing systems, and novels all based on EVE Online. White Wolf will leverage CCP's industry-leading technologies to bring its offline role-playing titles online. Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world.

"White Wolf possesses the RPG industry's leading offline gaming talent and some of the most recognizable roleplaying properties in the world," said Hilmar Petursson, CCP's Chief Executive Officer. " Virtual worlds are a new form of entertainment, separate from traditional computer games. By combining forces, we will create a company unsurpassed in quality, innovation, and scope which will keep us at the forefront of this emerging trend."

The combined company will continue to operate under their respective names. White Wolf will be operated as a wholly-owned subsidiary of CCP. Hilmar Petursson, Chief Executive Officer of CCP, will be CEO of the combined company. Mike Tinney, President of White Wolf, will continue as President of the independent subsidiary. Further, White Wolf will continue development and enhancement of their entire portfolio of gaming products.

"CCP brings industry-leading technical expertise and online game development experience to us," said Mike Tinney, White Wolf's President. "Together, we will create the industry's most innovative games leveraging both online and offline systems."

'Merging' in the same sense that Daimler-Benz 'merged' with Chrysler, it seems.

[Yoru]

So they think their synergy is going to be trading MMO tech/expertise for story writing? Hmm. It's an interesting step, at least.

That said.. Angsty Vampires in Space.

[Kail]

White Wolf will leverage CCP's industry-leading technologies to bring its offline role-playing titles online. Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world.

That's going to be an interesting title to keep an eye on, at the very least.

[Krakrok]

See now that is smart. Take your MMOG warchest and leverage your cash for quality content creators.

[tazelbain]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

[Megrim]

Hang on, hang on, maybe they aren't. Sure WoD is full of larping emo kids, but some sort of cross-system mmo could be feasible, if White Wolf lets CCP work the ip without too much interference. This could actually turn out to be quite interesting.

[hal]

I cant see this being negative, No one dislikes eve more that me, but I will acknowledge that there vision is constant and focused. It just isn't my game. So theres some skill there. White wolf owns some very interesting IP's. Add skill and an existing money stream (eve). They have a much better chance than your random start up I would guess.

[schild]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

There it is.

[Megrim]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

There it is.

Ok how?

[schild]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

There it is.

Ok how?

It would take a monstrous leap of faith to believe that CCP has it in them to make something other than Eve. It would take an even bigger leap of faith to believe White Wolf has any clue what they're doing. White Wolf's games are most likely going to be shoehorned into a diku setting - which is to be expected. But does CCP have the ability to make a competant diku game?

Yea, at this point it may not seem hard to make a Diku game with EQ and WoW behind us - just trace the lines. But then, we also see how many crash and burn. Unless CCP is launching vampires into a space, I just don't see this meshing well.

While Tazelbain's reasons for saying that may have been different, the point still stands. White Wolf and CCP - at no point - cross into eachothers genres. And I'll admit your question prompted me to check the WW page to see if a brand existed I didn't know about that might have the necessary flexibility to conform to a world constructed (not created) by CCP. It doesn't look that way. CCP is VERY GOOD at one thing. White Wolf is VERY GOOD at another thing. But we're not talking about chocolate and strawberries here. We're talking about chewing tobacco and key lime pie. Two completely different things.

Is the White Wolf fanbase even big enough to warrant an MMOG of any of their properties? I still have questions about D&D, Star Wars, LotRO, or Marvel & DC needing MMOGs. So uhm, consider this my hearty, pre-tech demo "meh."

[stray]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

There it is.

Ok how?

Masquerade is heavy on storytelling and roleplaying, and not as attentive on traditional rpg mechanics. Activities (like combat) don't even fall under the general understanding of RPG's. It's not very similar to a D&D paradigm, let alone an RPG like Eve, which is almost fully mechanic/gameplay centric. Eve is almost more of a simulation or strategy game than it is an RPG.

As for it being used for diku-ish mechanics -- I think that'd be lame too (obviously). In most rpg's, monster and foozle hunting is the goal. In Vampire, YOU are the monster. And generally speaking, you try to keep a low profile.

[Nija]

Can my werewolf's lice attack grow more powerful while I'm on the toilet?

If so, sign me up.

[Megrim]

Execpt their style of games are completely alien to each other.

There it is.

Ok how?

It would take a monstrous leap of faith to believe that CCP has it in them to make something other than Eve. It would take an even bigger leap of faith to believe White Wolf has any clue what they're doing. White Wolf's games are most likely going to be shoehorned into a diku setting - which is to be expected. But does CCP have the ability to make a competant diku game?

Yea, at this point it may not seem hard to make a Diku game with EQ and WoW behind us - just trace the lines. But then, we also see how many crash and burn. Unless CCP is launching vampires into a space, I just don't see this meshing well.

While Tazelbain's reasons for saying that may have been different, the point still stands. White Wolf and CCP - at no point - cross into eachothers genres. And I'll admit your question prompted me to check the WW page to see if a brand existed I didn't know about that might have the necessary flexibility to conform to a world constructed (not created) by CCP. It doesn't look that way. CCP is VERY GOOD at one thing. White Wolf is VERY GOOD at another thing. But we're not talking about chocolate and strawberries here. We're talking about chewing tobacco and key lime pie. Two completely different things.

Is the White Wolf fanbase even big enough to warrant an MMOG of any of their properties? I still have questions about D&D, Star Wars, LotRO, or Marvel & DC needing MMOGs. So uhm, consider this my hearty, pre-tech demo "meh."

This is in reply to both Schild and Stray:

HAHA LOL YOU SUCK AT SRTACRAFT! 1

Wait, no...


I'm not sure i follow your reasoning for this Schild, because you base your argument on the claim that WW stuff is inclined towards a diku model (I think Stray contradicts this), and that consequently this is doomed to fail since CCP are crap at dikus. I would imagine, that it took a monstrous leap of faith to imagine that CCP could succeed with EVE in the first place, and having done so, i do not think it is unwarranted to have faith in their ability to succeed in a different form of game. This then also addresses your argument about CCP being very good at only one thing, in that: if they are capable of clawing their way to efficacy in one genre, it would not surprise me that they could do it in another (Blizzard is a fine example of this).

My reasons for thinking that this could be a good thing were, however, mostly technological. CCP possesses the capability to create and maintain an (almost) seamless world of vast proportions. Consequently, with more money and a well established ip base (WW does have a large playerbase. Not as big as D&D i would imagine, but more than enough to warrant a proper mmo), combined with CCPs approach in sticking to their quite functional vision, could yield good results.

Of course, this is all talk. Until we do see something to warrant all of this, i will also remain firmly on the meh-wagon.

[Yoru]

I think Stray is closer to the right of it here - the actual White Wolf properties aren't directly conducive to computerization. However, it's been done with a modicum of success in the past, c.f. Bloodlines. However, I find it conceptually hard to make the leap from Bloodlines' style to an MMO.

Could they make a diku out of it? Yes, there's plenty of MUDs that are closely "inspired" by the WoD, and it's pretty easy to take a diku, change the name of mana to bloodpoints and slap some fangs on stuff. Normally, I wouldn't doubt that that's what they'll likely attempt to do - there's few enough examples of success outside of the Diku circle, but one of those (moderate) successes was CCP's.

Eve is more clearly the winner in this deal, so long as White Wolf's storytellers can sell pulp sci-fi novels to the Eve fan base. As for World of Darkness Online (WODO?), I'm not holding my breath.

[Engels]

I personally do not think that having two different genres is that big a deal. What makes a good game is good coding and good imagination. In this sense, there's hope. WW has shown to have good imaginative talent; even if you don't like V:TM, you have to admit that they put a lot of effort into creating a very broad world. CCP on the other hand, has good coders, or, should I say, better coders than most.

What would worry me is that the clear failures (instas lag ftw!) that are overlooked in Eve, since its already a 'niche' game, if present in a more mainstream MMO, would ring its death knell before its out of the gate. To mix more metaphors, CCP is the big fish in a pond with no other fish, but to run with the pack you can't smell of fish. Or something.

[damijin]

A non-diku vampire: the masquerade MMO that's as open as EVE could actually be really cool.

A game where combat exists but is rarely used in public places because breaking the masquerade could lead to being banished from a city by a prince, or having hunters sent after you. So all the big cool ass vampire fights happen in sewers and rooftops, away from street wandering NPCs.

Mmmm yes, I want the sense of tension between yourself and some jackass in a public bar around human NPCs. The feeling of knowing that using your vampiric powers might get you banished and hunted, but you hate this little bitch so much and know that you have to keep your cool until you find the guy wandering alone in a dark alley. Or maybe you just have a non-vampiric fist fight, or even fire fight, with him. Then, when one of you comes close to dying, you're forced to decide between breaking the masquerade and winning the fight, or sucking up your pride and any penalty associated with death, and just letting your opponent win. Or maybe you kill him and every NPC in the bar so no one is left to accuse you of breaking anything, but you take a hit to your conscience pool~

You'd need a lot of well written and executed non-combat content to make that world work though. Otherwise, it would just be a bunch of people who get bored with the lame missions; so they fight all day and ignore the masquerade. Then it creates huge populations of city-banished players, and the masquerade would become a joke and pointless. The devs would try to counter-balance it somehow and fuck the game all up because they're trying to "be true to the IP". And it crashes and burns, just like every IP-based MMO that alienates both the fans of the game and the fans of the IP while trying to please everyone.

Of course this will not happen and we'll be playing HUNTER: THE DIKU in 2010 which involves going out of the north gate of New York City and killing vampire rats until you ding. A blissfully mediocre and bland World of Darkness that is sure not to offend (or attract) anyone.

Eh... and to think that before I started writing this post I thought this could actually turn out to be something cool!

[Flood]

In one way I applaud the outside the box thinking involved.  I can see how getting a bunch of people that are good at writing or creating lore and content together with a bunch of people that are good at making multiplayer video games could be a good thing. 

However, synergy is an unstable element, and whether they (CCWhitePWolf) can actualize on this chocolate in the peanut butter bidness remains to be seen.  More power to them as far as I'm concerned.  I always liked some elements of the WoD mythos.

EVE + WoD = MKW Online

[stray]

Eh... and to think that before I started writing this post I thought this could actually turn out to be something cool!

Heh, yeah. You managed to traverse the entire spectrum of hope and doubt with just one post.

All the hopeful things you said had nothing to do with multiplayer though.

[damijin]

Eh... and to think that before I started writing this post I thought this could actually turn out to be something cool!

Heh, yeah. You managed to traverse the entire spectrum of hope and doubt with just one post.

All the hopeful things you said had nothing to do with multiplayer though.

quite true. shall we put the stamp of destined to fail on this fodler then?

edit: i considered fixing my typo, but fodler is a cool word.

[stray]

quite true. shall we put the stamp of destined to fail on this fodler then?

Unless CCP decides for some strange reason to make single player adventure games, then yes, it's destined to fail.

[schild]

Ok, here's....this.

A White Wolf MMOG would need a shitton of content. Like, real content.

Afaik, CCP has no clue how to do that.

[rk47]

Carrying a bunch of ore in a pack horse....going to resource node from one to another...trading and making swords and shields. Supplying blacksmiths with cheap goods in hopes of flooding the market with your crafted shit while fending off vampires from attacking your mine workers?

A lot of mundane medieval stuff that has 'IMMERSHUN' ?  :-D

[stray]

I would hope there aren't blacksmiths, resource nodes, and swords. The setting is a modern, mostly urban universe. Not fantasy.

[Typhon]

Too bad it's not Cryptic and WW merging.  CoX's character customization and world engine combined with all the V:TM source material seems like it could be entertaining right out of the box.  Then if you add some interesting resource/pvp element in there, it could be dynamite.

[stray]

Cryptic can't even be loyal to comic books when making a comic book game. They couldn't pull off a WW game for shit.

[jpark]

I would hope there aren't blacksmiths, resource nodes, and swords. The setting is a modern, mostly urban universe. Not fantasy.

I think of the first Vampire game.  It was medevil and modern - due to the time travel of sorts that occurred in the game.  Blizzard is using time travel for a fresh look at existing zones in the expansion.  I think the whole idea is a cool mechanic.

[Nija]

Ok, here's....this.

A White Wolf MMOG would need a shitton of content. Like, real content.

Afaik, CCP has no clue how to do that.

No clue? I wouldn't go that far.

Unlike all the rest, except UO and ATITD, they don't HAVE to make content. Anything they make now or in the future would be worse than the "natural" conflict of Eve. Player created content - Raph's holy grail. Everyone bashes CCP for no content/quests when they should be praising them for actually making a real, WORKING, Designer-Dragon-Style Virtual World. That works. Did I mention that it actually worked?

In other news, it took me about 20 minutes to chicken peck this post while my 9 month old was crawling all over me. So appreciate it more than the rest of my posts this length.

[Roac]

woah, Woah, WOAH.  This is impressive.  Really, really impressive.

No, at present WW and CCP don't have much overlap - but then, that they have decided to merge like this suggests they want to.  They have to have something cooking other than an interesting geek-ish investment.  Specifically though, the potential for a WoD MMOG is fantasitc.  While WoD is more about storytelling than combat and kill-for-xp-gain, Eve hasn't shown much interest in such traditional MMOG formats anyway.  They're the only MMOG company right now that's BOTH wanting to break from traditional play and been successful at it. 

Aside from that though, CCP has shown interest in bringing things in game to out of game; most notably with Quafe (they made their own soft drink).  Per the article it's a trend they apparently want to continue, and one that WW has success already at.  So we'll see.  Expect a good 2-3 years before anything actually comes to market at all, let alone anything related to MMOGs, but there's huge potential here.

[geldonyetich]

Much like Turbine being granted permission to make a D&D game, CCP getting their hands on World of Darkness encourages me because it's the situation of a company that can make a good engine but can't make a quality gameplay mechanic getting permission to borrow what they're lacking.   Stormreach was a near miss, if only because the content was overly encapsulated.  Perhaps CCP will fare better.

[WindupAtheist]

A half-decent vampire MMO could attract some people.  Hell, I'll play.  But only if I can look like Wesley Snipes in Blade and kill emo goth fag vampire kids.

[Llava]

The Eve team couldn't pull off something like this?

[geldonyetich]

Has the EVE team done the sci-fi genre?  Yes.

Has the EVE team done a game that plays quickly enough to require less than a 2000 ping?  Not that I've seen.

EVE's GUI and network infrastructure is built for being a zero gravity stock exchange, and that's about all I can credit them as being capable of at this time.

[Soln]

Ok, here's....this.

A White Wolf MMOG would need a shitton of content. Like, real content.

Afaik, CCP has no clue how to do that.

have to agree with Schild.  The name of the game may be grab-as-many-proven-properties as possible like Turbine etc. did to grab-any-well-made-content and put them in the wood shed for the Day After.  Get some more assets on the Balance Sheet to comfort investors.   Personally, I still see more opportunities with D&D and Shadowrun than White Wolf which is very complicated and theatrical.  But who knows, they could be just looking at redoing Bloodlines.  But yeah, CCP lucked into the player created content thing since what is in Eve is thin (need players to make the game real).

[geldonyetich]

In moderation to the well deserved CCP cynicism, I will admit that CCP does at least know how to make really pretty space graphics.

[Viin]

In moderation to the well deserved CCP cynicism, I will admit that CCP does at least know how to make really pretty space graphics.

See! And you thought they had nothing going for them!