How do you make money in WoW?

[Malathor]

Alliance has a minor pve advantage in a very select, few fights. Horde also has a minor pve advantage in a very select, few fights. Unfortunately, alliance has more 'advantage' fights than horde. Generally, horde centers around poison cleansing or slowing totems, for the aoe, and alliance has the advantage of targeted dispells and "most importantly" fear ward. Also, when they raised blessings from 5 to 15 minutes, they did not give any corresponding ease of use to shamans. They are still totems, totems, totems.

Well, since Nef how many fear ward fights have there been? Gluth, and horde has its own advantages in that fight.

Oh, I'm not denying that alliance still has a slight advantage in aggro control and mana regen and warrior hp, but at the top levels such things get lost in the noise of massive consumables/buffage. The end results speak for themselves, US horde failures don't reflect what is going on in the rest of the world and can almost certainly be laid at the feet of heavy pop imbalances rather than truly significant PvE capability imbalances. Either that or Nihilium is just that much better than everyone else, and the Stars people did KT first on their horde instead of their alliance division because the Chinese are all just that hardcore.

[Valmorian]

WoW devs themselves publicly stated, both at Blizzcon and on their forums, that Alliance has a PvE advantage, with Paladins > Shamans for raids.

If you still can't/won't believe/understand that after 2 years, then you just might be retarded.

But now I'm fairly sure only the clueless would...  how 'bout buying some texts off me, Val?

Way to miss the point.  Did I say that there WASN'T an advantage in PvE for alliance?  No.  What I was pointing out was that often the same people who whine about the game being broken in an aspect that makes them underachievers are quick to cite personal skill when it comes to those aspects of the game where they achieve "more".  In essence, I'm agreeing with you in a backhanded way. 

But hey, continue to make personal attacks, I'm sure it makes your argument more correct, after all.

[Righ]

What I was pointing out was that often the same people who whine about the game being broken in an aspect that makes them underachievers are quick to cite personal skill when it comes to those aspects of the game where they achieve "more".  In essence, I'm agreeing with you in a backhanded way. 

But hey, continue to make personal attacks, I'm sure it makes your argument more correct, after all.

Actually, your original comment read like a backhanded personal attack. But it didn't surprise me.

[Valmorian]

Actually, your original comment read like a backhanded personal attack. But it didn't surprise me.

Really?  What kind of personal attack would it be?  I'm puzzled. 

[Righ]

if they're "bad" at it, it's just because the other side has "easy mode".

That was either an implication that I'm 'bad' at something, or you're just really crap at stringing together words.

[Valmorian]

if they're "bad" at it, it's just because the other side has "easy mode".

That was either an implication that I'm 'bad' at something, or you're just really crap at stringing together words.

But I never said YOU said that: 

I love hearing these sorts of things.  Actually, my favourite is when people say things like "The Horde just attracts people who are more skilled at PvP", but then turn around and say "The Alliance is just overpowered when it comes to PvE".

Basically, your original claim reminded me of those people who claim the same sort of things AND also claim "superior skill" when it comes to things that they do well at in the game.

[Furiously]

Basically, your original claim reminded me of those people who claim the same sort of things AND also claim "superior skill" when it comes to things that they do well at in the game.

I know I've never ran into a bad undead healer.

[Valmorian]

I know I've never ran into a bad undead healer.

Ok, why do you suppose that is?  Is it because your sample size is small?  Because they have some sort of trait that makes them better?  Or perhaps because "People who are better at playing healers choose undead healers!"?

There are seriously people who with one breath will claim that the reason their side wins BG's all the time is because skilled players choose their side, and in the next say the reason they can't complete an instance is because of game imbalances.

I just find that sort of rationalization amusing, that's all.

[lamaros]

if they're "bad" at it, it's just because the other side has "easy mode".

That was either an implication that I'm 'bad' at something, or you're just really crap at stringing together words.

But I never said YOU said that:

So I'm guessing it's B, then? I'm still confused... It's either very B, or you just being an ass with a splash of B.

When someone makes a comment and you liken people that make those comments to "bad" players you liken them to a "bad" player. it's pretty straightforwrd.

[lamaros]

Just to change the topic even more off that of money:

I suggest that people who are good at PvP are good at PvE, but that the reverse is not true.

I also suggest that with good players the PvE faction imbalances are marginal, but with average players they are more notable. Hence the difference in Ally progression in terms of numbers, but not in respect to time.

Back on topic:

Beta Realm Economy is completely FUCKED for a number of reasons, I don't see what th prices of ore on there has to do with anything at all.

Thorium ore is selling for 1-1.5g for 10 on my server ATM.

The best money in the game is ALWAYS avaliable to those who are the higest level. I suggest you spend your time working a plan to grind up fast then farm if you really want to make cash in TBC and worry less about grinding away pointlessly in the current game.

[Lantyssa]

I know I've never ran into a bad undead healer.

Are you sure?  They're dead, aren't they?

[caladein]

I only dabbled with Horde during Open Beta -- all my characters upon release were Alliance -- and I never raided so I couldn't say personally which side should be better for raid encounters though I do hear people say that Pallys >> Shamans in raids so there's presumably that advantage but apparently that advantage is not so great that the Horde is unable to complete the same raids.

Having raided on both Horde (Priest) and Alliance (Druid) on PvP servers, the group design alone makes healing a lot harder on Horde. On top of that, the lack of Blessing of Wisdom (we almost never had Kings in the guild) is kinda noticeable.

It may just be that a) I'm not an officer in the guild I raid with on Horde, and b) we don't really have "healing assignments" like I did on Alliance. I basically just took care of my group/tank and threw HoTs around where needed. Overhealing + lack of Pally buffs = bad. Still, Mana Spring and Tide are still pretty nice, and melee DPS seems godly compared to my Alliance raids (again, may just be the mass of DPS Warriors the Horde guild has versus the mass of Mages in the Alliance one).

[Zetor]

Yeah, Windfury totems are money (it can proc an extra attack off anything -- even stuff like revenge or hamstring, which led to the phrase "spamstring" referring to DPS warriors spamming hamstring between bt/ww cooldowns to maximize procs). I remember Blizz trying to nerf it to not affect specials, and the massive outcry of horde raiders made them change it back. It doesn't quite make up for BoSalvation, but it gives tanks a nice aggro boost, and makes dps warriors wtfbbqpwn. There ARE some other horde advantages (poison cleansing totems especially at viscidus, earthbind totems for oldschool razorgore, earth shocks at c'thun, etc), but I agree that pallies and fear ward are generally more useful. Though fearward is kind of overrated imo, the #1 alliance guild on my server got their server-first Mag, Ony and Nef kills with 0 dwarf priests. :P

From what I've heard from my horde friends on IRC, it's not even BoWisdom that's the problem, it's Judgement of Wisdom, which basically allows alliance hunters to DPS recklessly compared to horde counterparts who have to FD/drink and/or chug mana pots like crazy. Plus it allows priests who are regenning to wand the boss for even more mana.


Obligatory ontopic: I second the motion about farming massive amounts of raw ore. There was that Jewelcrafting guide posted a while back, and most of that stuff is easily obtainable now -- better do it before the uberguilds hog the nodes to powerlevel their jewelcrafting mules. I personally have a mule character with all backpacks/bank slots full of ores, stones, and shaman twink gear (3 BOE elements pieces, etc).

Also, if anyone is STILL farming for a Tidal Charm, don't -- if you're an engineer, you'll get better trinkets in BC, both gnome (polymorph.. kinda) and goblin (tidal charm with a longer stun, shorter cooldown, does damage and has +40 stamina on it).


-- Z.

[Righ]

earthbind totems for oldschool razorgore

That doesn't even work slightly well - its a wipe strategy that sometimes goes wrong and results in a boss kill rather than the other way round. Release and run back.

However, what you say about windfury is entirely true, but because shaman have buffs for many classes, and their buffs are only useful when they are in the same 5 man grouping, horde raids are full of people demanding to be in this group or that, or that their shaman provides gift of air, windfury, gift of earth, mana tide etc. Only the other week, I watched a warrior leave a raid in a huff after he wasn't given his windfury shaman. That paladins can buff people not joined to the hip with them is another Alliance raiding advantage that only they enjoy at present. And as a result, its much easier for an Alliance raid to run light on paladins than it is for a Horde raid to run light on shaman.

[Zetor]

Yeah, by 'oldschool' I meant when BWL was released (weird aggro issues if you try it now, but I remember everyone posting how it made Razorgore ez for horde... then again, DIing Razorgore was even worse, though that is a sploit). It's not really applicable to the present, but there are some places where earthbind totems are good (ZG-panther, AQ20-rajaxx, etcetera). Poison cleansing totems are also very good.

The raidwide pally buff <-> partywide shaman totem difference IS mostly the cause of the raiding disparity (after greater blessings were added to the game, that is).. and it's the one Blizzard couldn't solve, thus they cut the gordian knot by adding pallies to the horde and shaman to the alliance.


-- Z.

[Valmorian]

So I'm guessing it's B, then? I'm still confused... It's either very B, or you just being an ass with a splash of B.

When someone makes a comment and you liken people that make those comments to "bad" players you liken them to a "bad" player. it's pretty straightforwrd.

Or perhaps it's C, a difficulty with reading?  I agree that it's pretty straightforward, if you bother to read the post I made, I was pretty clear about the type of argument that I find amusing.

Now unless you are suggesting that HE said that A) he was making the argument that the faction he was a member of was good at what they tend to succeed at because that faction attracts more skilled players AND B) the other faction just has an unfair game advantage to be good at what they succeed at, then what I said has nothing to do with his claim, other than the fact that HIS statement _reminded_ me of such claims.

[Trouble]

Don't even get me started on the bitching about groups on horde. I'm responsible for doing groups in my guild and it can be quite a pain. I use a mod that remembers groups and does organization and then I tweak it for the current setup and all that. I still constantly get whispers "switch me and this other rogue, he's swords and I'm daggers and I want the other totem". It's like a steady stream of this all night long and it can get old. Definitely envious of the fuckall that alliance can do on setting up groups, it's like a science for horde if the raid leaders are actually trying to maximize their raid.

[Slayerik]

Don't even get me started on the bitching about groups on horde. I'm responsible for doing groups in my guild and it can be quite a pain. I use a mod that remembers groups and does organization and then I tweak it for the current setup and all that. I still constantly get whispers "switch me and this other rogue, he's swords and I'm daggers and I want the other totem". It's like a steady stream of this all night long and it can get old. Definitely envious of the fuckall that alliance can do on setting up groups, it's like a science for horde if the raid leaders are actually trying to maximize their raid.

So true, as raid and guild leader I just began ignoring some people. I still cringe watching some of the setups the new leaders run, but fuck it. Group makeup was very important as horde raiders is my point :)

[Scadente]

which led to the phrase "spamstring" referring to DPS warriors spamming hamstring between bt/ww cooldowns to maximize procs).

They really should learn the awesomeness of furyspecc + 2h + imp. slam. I can outdps almost anybody with slam+BT and WF totem. Its very underused for some reason. Just work up 100rage with a auto-attack+BT rotation. Then slam your way down to zero. And once you get weapons like Untamed Blade or Sword of the Brotherhood, youre made. I dont really get the whole Dual Wield thing, youre just asking for glancing blows, and you need loads of bad +hit% gear to be effective.

Sure fearward isnt THE BOMB, but It can save the day when you get an unlucky fear. Like Ony and Nef, they fear pretty random, so if both tanks got Zerker Rage on CD, its pretty much a quarter to three quarters of your raid down (If you are unlucky and get a fear-spam). While having it gives you extra room for mistake, same with BoK, 10% extra HP on your tanks can save many a raid. Saying that Alliance isnt "easymode" is utter bullcrap. Having that extra inch for mistakes saves you, and there is no denying that.

[Ironwood]

Someone uses Slam ??  Wait a Minute :  Improved Slam ?  Are you kidding me ?

 

[Shavnir]

which led to the phrase "spamstring" referring to DPS warriors spamming hamstring between bt/ww cooldowns to maximize procs).

They really should learn the awesomeness of furyspecc + 2h + imp. slam. I can outdps almost anybody with slam+BT and WF totem. Its very underused for some reason. Just work up 100rage with a auto-attack+BT rotation. Then slam your way down to zero. And once you get weapons like Untamed Blade or Sword of the Brotherhood, youre made. I dont really get the whole Dual Wield thing, youre just asking for glancing blows, and you need loads of bad +hit% gear to be effective.

Sure fearward isnt THE BOMB, but It can save the day when you get an unlucky fear. Like Ony and Nef, they fear pretty random, so if both tanks got Zerker Rage on CD, its pretty much a quarter to three quarters of your raid down (If you are unlucky and get a fear-spam). While having it gives you extra room for mistake, same with BoK, 10% extra HP on your tanks can save many a raid. Saying that Alliance isnt "easymode" is utter bullcrap. Having that extra inch for mistakes saves you, and there is no denying that.

Protip : Slam resets your swing timer.  There's a reason everyone uses spamstring.

Also for DW its got a higher potential for damage assuming you are specced properly.  Given the balance of white vs. yellow damage dosen't change that much in general glancing hits just happen more often with DW than 2h, but affect you just as much.  (Damn you blizz, nerfing the effect of +skill in the expansion).

Point being while its even more reliant on gear (since you have to balance AP, hit and cirt) it has a higher potential for damage in the long run. 

Horde only has the advantage (currently) regarding dps warrior output.  After TBC and both sides have level 70s the advantage will still be on Alliance side ut it won't be that intense as it is right now.  Possibly Horde tanks will come close due to the tauren racial but that's left to be seen.

[Paelos]

I hope you all realize that this tangent makes this thread completely suck now.

Here's an attempt at a rerail. I make most of my money farming Scarlet Monastary in sets of two. I run the East wing, and then the Cathedral, but I skip most of the trash mobs that I can walk by because the main money winners are the chests in the East side, and the mobs/bosses inside the actual Cathedral. Typically to do both takes about one hour, you make about 5-7g in pure coin, 2-4g in vendoring blues (more if you can DE), 3-5g in vendorable greys/greens, and about 3g on selling silk and greens on the AH. So, usually I'm getting 13-20g an hour, plus there is the chance of a blue boe drop every ten runs or so that's worth about 20g.

You figure, 5 days a week, one run a day, one hour a day, you can make 70-100g. Then, I use that seed money to play auctioneer. I hunt for any materials used in crafting that are undervalued and snatch them up. Also, patterns work well too.

[Valmorian]

Horde only has the advantage (currently) regarding dps warrior output.  After TBC and both sides have level 70s the advantage will still be on Alliance side ut it won't be that intense as it is right now.  Possibly Horde tanks will come close due to the tauren racial but that's left to be seen.

What do you mean by this?  Why would Alliance have an advantage for Warrior DPS after TBC?

[Ratama]

I hunt for any materials used in crafting that are undervalued and snatch them up. Also, patterns work well too.

Is anyone else buying Righteous Orbs to resell once BC goes live?

I'm buying them at 30g or less on my server; and while I know that the 1k that someone paid for 4 in BC Beta won't be typical (as it'll be 'real' gold in Live), I guarantee they're going to hit triple digits once folks start upgrading their weapons on a large scale (and no, most folks are *not* going to want to take time out from new content to go farm orbs themselves).

Also, I think 16-slot bags are a good investment; buying those for 12g or less, and once BC goes live and every character now has 5 extra inv/bank slots... I can't see how those will fail to double in price (and that's being conservative).

And while investing for BC, bear in mind the *massive* gold inflation that's going to take place...  100g won't have close to the same comparative buying power in BC that it does now, so only save enough actual gold to get you by (repairs, etc).  Invest the rest.

[Chenghiz]

Horde only has the advantage (currently) regarding dps warrior output.  After TBC and both sides have level 70s the advantage will still be on Alliance side ut it won't be that intense as it is right now.  Possibly Horde tanks will come close due to the tauren racial but that's left to be seen.

What do you mean by this?  Why would Alliance have an advantage for Warrior DPS after TBC?

To venture a guess - because of the human racial +5 skill to swords and maces.

[Fordel]

+skill got changed in TBC, it no longer has any effect on glancing blows.

+5 skill would net you something silly like 0.5% crit chance on a higher level mob now.

[Merusk]

"Investment Speculation & the WoW economy"

I disagree on bag investment.  There's a "Netherweave Bag" pattern @ 320 tailoring.  No leather requirement means they'll be even easier for tailors to make than the current Runecloth Bags.

I hadden't thought about picking up the orbs, though. That's a hell of an idea, since I'd heard there were no new enchants that will replace crusader in uefulness for several classes.

[Ratama]

Well...

1. Nether bags are BoE, and...

2. There won't be enough to fill demand for at least a couple... days?  Weeks?  Dunno, but at least not for a bit; gonna be a lotta Netherweave being burned up for bandages.  I'll be shocked if those Nether bags sell for less than 15g.

Regarding the BoE thing; nice thing about the non-binding bags is that you can throw a couple on a lowbie alt and use them for storage/alt-itis leveling, then transfer the bags back to your main, or a friend.  I don't know how much extra value they'll keep, but they WILL be more valuable than the Nether bags for just that reason.

...

Regarding the Orbs: Yeah, only sidegrade enchants for Strength-based melee classes in BC, really, and again, those won't be readily available for a while, either. 

Combining the huge jump in demand with a lesser supply, AND a massive influx of raw currency... 150g+ each wouldn't shock me; heck, they were almost worth that much on my server for a long time.

[Shavnir]

Horde only has the advantage (currently) regarding dps warrior output.  After TBC and both sides have level 70s the advantage will still be on Alliance side ut it won't be that intense as it is right now.  Possibly Horde tanks will come close due to the tauren racial but that's left to be seen.

What do you mean by this?  Why would Alliance have an advantage for Warrior DPS after TBC?

It was two separate thoughts.  Point A - The main PvE advantage to Horde currently is Warrior DPS.  Point B - After all's said and done advantage still alliance with a possibility of tauren racial evening things.

[SurfD]

Horde only has the advantage (currently) regarding dps warrior output.  After TBC and both sides have level 70s the advantage will still be on Alliance side ut it won't be that intense as it is right now.  Possibly Horde tanks will come close due to the tauren racial but that's left to be seen.

What do you mean by this?  Why would Alliance have an advantage for Warrior DPS after TBC?

It was two separate thoughts.  Point A - The main PvE advantage to Horde currently is Warrior DPS.  Point B - After all's said and done advantage still alliance with a possibility of tauren racial evening things.

How exactly does the Tauren Racial effect warrior DPS?  Having more hitpoints will not make you hit harder.  The orc or troll racial would maybe make up for that (hitting harder every few minutes, or hitting faster when when low health)   I know every troll rogue / DPS warrior in our patchwerk fights jumps in the slime once the tanks have a lock on him, for the berserking damage boost.

As to alliance.  The advantage will still be there due to one thing: Draenie racial +hit aura.  Having 1 draenie in any mele group will give them a massive boost in not missing (not sure if +hit affects glancings now or not)

[Shavnir]

Point A was the only one to mention Warrior DPS.

Point B was more a "After level 70 and its all shaken down Horde mght have an overall perspective PvE advantage due to the extra health on tauren tanks."

+hit never affected glancings, only weapon skill.  And after 2.0 glancings aren't affected by weapon skill either.

[Righ]

Who's on first?

[Shavnir]

Who's on first?

Exactly.

[Fabricated]

FYI, I play pretty casual and right now I'm standing at 400G on my main and 300G on my mage alt just doing instance runs and vendoring mats and vendoring greys. Every now and then you get the windfall of a decent BoE or book and get a sizable boost to your bankroll.

Good one to farm up with friends is the book of eviscerate that drops in UBRS now.

edit: wait, the Tidal Charm is good? I got one on my mage alt and I've nearly vendored it like 4 times because I hardly use it. I got it off some rare naga spawn in the water off of Arathi while doing the quests there.

[Furiously]

I generally just play the market - its a lot easier on alliance side.

I'd recommend playing it on the alliance side and using the neutral AH to transfer money back. The 25% loss is eatable.